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benjii

By benjii
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benjii

benjii

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Working from home today so am watching the bowls on BBC2. It appears (you'd be forgiven some doubts from looking at one of them) to be the women's final.

 

Anyway, why do you need separate women's and men's tournaments in a sport like bowls? Bowls, darts, snooker, shooting / archery etc. - surely it's a level-playing field?

 

Obviously you can't have women competing with men in professional football, tennis, rugby etc. as they have no chance at all but with the likes of the above, I don't get why there are two distinct tours (and obviously if there are distinct tours then there ought to be about 24, to respect all the genders).

benjii

benjii

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They do in darts as was one at tournament over Christmas.

 

Wasn't that a sort of "token" thing though?

 

I think it would be more interesting for sports without a physical imbalance for everything to be mixed up.

mrfahaji

mrfahaji

Posted
Posted
Working from home today so am watching the bowls on BBC2. It appears (you'd be forgiven some doubts from looking at one of them) to be the women's final.

 

Anyway, why do you need separate women's and men's tournaments in a sport like bowls? Bowls, darts, snooker, shooting / archery etc. - surely it's a level-playing field?

 

Obviously you can't have women competing with men in professional football, tennis, rugby etc. as they have no chance at all but with the likes of the above, I don't get why there are two distinct tours (and obviously if there are distinct tours then there ought to be about 24, to respect all the genders).

 

Lol, not sure how intentional it was to make sound like "I'm working from home, so obviously I'm not working" :p

 

Funny, I saw an article on BBC about some women playing in a snooker tournament (as you can probably tell, I didn't read it thoroughly) and it made me think how snooker is surely a sport where women could be as good as men.

whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
Lol, not sure how intentional it was to make sound like "I'm working from home, so obviously I'm not working" :p

 

Funny, I saw an article on BBC about some women playing in a snooker tournament (as you can probably tell, I didn't read it thoroughly) and it made me think how snooker is surely a sport where women could be as good as men.

 

The larger breasted ones will be giving away loads of fouls surely?

benjii

benjii

Posted
  • Author
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Lol, not sure how intentional it was to make sound like "I'm working from home, so obviously I'm not working" :p

 

Funny, I saw an article on BBC about some women playing in a snooker tournament (as you can probably tell, I didn't read it thoroughly) and it made me think how snooker is surely a sport where women could be as good as men.

 

[video=youtube_share;co_DNpTMKXk]

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
Working from home today so am watching the bowls on BBC2. It appears (you'd be forgiven some doubts from looking at one of them) to be the women's final.

 

Anyway, why do you need separate women's and men's tournaments in a sport like bowls? Bowls, darts, snooker, shooting / archery etc. - surely it's a level-playing field?

 

Obviously you can't have women competing with men in professional football, tennis, rugby etc. as they have no chance at all but with the likes of the above, I don't get why there are two distinct tours (and obviously if there are distinct tours then there ought to be about 24, to respect all the genders).

 

I'm sure there are some good Dawson-esq mother in law jokes there somewhere.

 

It's a valid point, I think you can add golf to that list too. A decent swing has nothing to do with brute strength and there's no physical reason a woman can't play as well as a man.

 

Interestingly, motorsport has gone the other way and introduced a racing series just for women. They're promoting it as giving women an opportunity to make it into F1 but in reality it's just a bunch of drivers who have already failed in various other series, the winner of which will still be sub-standard.

Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted

 

Interestingly, motorsport has gone the other way and introduced a racing series just for women.

 

That’s true, I watched a race myself. Even took a picture of the cars parked up afterwards.

 

3c6d3c43b3539f9515fc59dcca24e219.jpg

 

 

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Cabbage_Face

Cabbage_Face

Posted
Posted
Working from home today so am watching the bowls on BBC2. It appears (you'd be forgiven some doubts from looking at one of them) to be the women's final.

 

Anyway, why do you need separate women's and men's tournaments in a sport like bowls? Bowls, darts, snooker, shooting / archery etc. - surely it's a level-playing field?

 

Obviously you can't have women competing with men in professional football, tennis, rugby etc. as they have no chance at all but with the likes of the above, I don't get why there are two distinct tours (and obviously if there are distinct tours then there ought to be about 24, to respect all the genders).

 

Interesting, but a sport like bowls women have a technical advantage and men have a strength advantage, having a stronger bowl will normally out play a weaker one. Men would basically out perform women in this sport.

 

Interesting fact, I beat the Barleycorn women’s darts team, I was half cut and can’t play darts to save my life.

 

Hope this helps in your quest for equality.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

benjii

benjii

Posted
  • Author
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Interesting, but a sport like bowls women have a technical advantage and men have a strength advantage, having a stronger bowl will normally out play a weaker one. Men would basically out perform women in this sport.

 

Interesting fact, I beat the Barleycorn women’s darts team, I was half cut and can’t play darts to save my life.

 

Hope this helps in your quest for equality.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

How do women have a technical advantage in bowls?

Manuel

Manuel

Posted
Posted

Women can compete in snooker tournaments. Reanne Evans, regarded as the best woman player, was given a wildcard a few years back to play in all ranking tournaments but failed to win a match.

 

Women aren't interested in snooker so tend not to play it?

 

Men and women have different biology thus differing skills and aptitudes....poking balls with sticks just doesn't suit the fairer sex?

ashnats

ashnats

Posted
Posted

A first step could be to have female carnivores vs. Male vegans? Could be a stepping stone towards something. Difficult to police though and would be lots of meat-doping scandals on the vegan end.

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

Women compete equally at the top level in equestrian events. ( If this were on The Muppet Show I am sure that would prompt some sort of response referencing their having a lump of throbbing muscle gripped between their thighs ).

Lets B Avenue

Lets B Avenue

Posted
Posted
I do wonder when we will get the first transgender(male to female) person in say tennis. I can imagine the rumpus if they are allowed to compete........

 

Already happened in the 70's. Renee Richards

SW5 SAINT

SW5 SAINT

Posted
Posted
Already happened in the 70's. Renee Richards

 

I do remember Renee Richards, but I rather think she was only allowed to compete in the US. I seem to remember she was in her 40's, and gave the other women a run for their money

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
I do wonder when we will get the first transgender(male to female) person in say tennis. I can imagine the rumpus if they are allowed to compete........
It's probably closer than you think...

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rachel-mckinnon-becomes-first-transgender-woman-win-track-world-title-397473/amp&ved=2ahUKEwic-a2_7YvgAhXKQxUIHcTFAewQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1sN2pz2KpyfSzFJTSfYI4H&ampcf=1

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
I do wonder when we will get the first transgender(male to female) person in say tennis. I can imagine the rumpus if they are allowed to compete........

 

Wasn't there some South African athlete a few years ago who already kicked up a stink? Something about her muscle mass and testosterone levels.

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
Wasn't there some South African athlete a few years ago who already kicked up a stink? Something about her muscle mass and testosterone levels.

Caster Semenya, pictured here with her wife,

TW_0043957.jpg

Edited by badgerx16
mrfahaji

mrfahaji

Posted
Posted
Interesting, but a sport like bowls women have a technical advantage and men have a strength advantage, having a stronger bowl will normally out play a weaker one. Men would basically out perform women in this sport.

 

Interesting fact, I beat the Barleycorn women’s darts team, I was half cut and can’t play darts to save my life.

 

Hope this helps in your quest for equality.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Is strength in bowls an issue once you get beyond a certain point though? If (and I'm happy to be proved wrong but I think it's true) you are strong enough to bowl to the end of the lane and/or strong enough to knock another ball out the way, surely that's sufficient?

 

It's like 2 people taking part in the fairground game 'High Striker'. If they can both ding the bell, then does it matter which person is stronger?

RedArmy

RedArmy

Posted
Posted
I do wonder when we will get the first transgender(male to female) person in say tennis. I can imagine the rumpus if they are allowed to compete........

 

The Williams brothers dominated tennis for years.

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
ashnats

ashnats

Posted
Posted

There is a simple answer - we treat all genders equal, level playing field, and eliminate mens and womens sports. Everyone competes with everyone.

 

after some time, this will naturally divide into leagues dominated by women and leagues dominated by men, but with no formal restriction on gender. all welcome.

 

Then, if you want high quality sport, e.g. premier league, you will find yourself watching men. if you want a lower quality, slower pace, e.g. southern division, then you will find yourself watching more women.

 

problems solved, can closed.

shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted

 

Surely he (or she) has to have his testosterone levels measured and is only allowed to compete if they are below a cutoff (as the IOC mandates for the Olympics)? Basically if you’re a woman and built like fatima whitbread (and have high naturally occurring testosterone levels) you can’t compete; and if you’re a bloke who identifies as a woman and has lowered testosterone levels (drug induced or otherwise), you can compete. In which case it would make things simpler if they just introduced different testosterone classes (like they do with weight classes in boxing or weight-lifting).

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

There’s no right answer really. It’s not fair on Semenya that she can’t compete because of a natural advantage. It’s not fair on competitors to be competing in a sport they literally cannot win.

 

As Shurlock says, dropping male/female events and just having testosterone classes is about the fairest way to do it but then sports just get weird. Imagine an Olympic 100m final for ‘girls who are a bit butch and blokes who are a bit camp’. :|

benjii

benjii

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I don't see it as any more of an issue than the genes that give Usain Bolt complete superiority over other sprinters. I think we should celebrate it when someone "supernormal" comes along, rather than exclude them.

 

I guess the real issue is whether naturally occurring things like testosterone should be banned as supplements. There's no suggestion Semenya has done anything to seek an advantage (beyond what any other athlete does).

Manuel

Manuel

Posted
Posted

Yeah, I wrongly assumed that Semenya was a trans person. Turns out she was born a woman but has a condition which means she has abnormally high testosterone.

 

In this case I think she's been hard done by and should be allowed to compete against other women as she is. A strange situation when sports are trying to eradicate drug use, that she is forced to take drugs in order to compete. I doubt anyone would complain about an abnormally tall person from competing in a high jump contest or from playing basketball.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
There’s no right answer really. It’s not fair on Semenya that she can’t compete because of a natural advantage. It’s not fair on competitors to be competing in a sport they literally cannot win.

 

As Shurlock says, dropping male/female events and just having testosterone classes is about the fairest way to do it but then sports just get weird. Imagine an Olympic 100m final for ‘girls who are a bit butch and blokes who are a bit camp’. :|

Exactly and my guess is about 90% of people would prefer the categories stay as they are even if that unfortunately means that people like semenya are excluded if they won't lower their testosterone levels. I feel pretty sorry for semenya.
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
I don't see it as any more of an issue than the genes that give Usain Bolt complete superiority over other sprinters. I think we should celebrate it when someone "supernormal" comes along, rather than exclude them.

 

I guess the real issue is whether naturally occurring things like testosterone should be banned as supplements. There's no suggestion Semenya has done anything to seek an advantage (beyond what any other athlete does).

I think I read somewhere that Semenya was potentially xx chromosome and was really biologically male (I could be wrong.) if that's the case then it's makes it even more complicated. Not so much supernormal in that scenario.
John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted

Just read this thread from the beginning'ish and just stepping aside from the Semenya discussion.

For years when we have been down the Village Carnival and the coconut shy is there I will pay the £1 or whatever pass Mrs JBS the wooden balls 30 seconds later we have one or 2 coconuts, Alton Towers plate smash for a big cuddly toy, my kids are begging for one, not asking me, but asking their Mum to win one for them, couple of minutes later 2 girls grinning their faces off struggling to carry a big fluffy something each!!

Worst still playing Golf in Spain couple of years back (Mrs JBS likes looking at the fancy Villas) my driving had gone to pot for whatever reason, she wasn't taking the mick or anything, no one was around and I said "do you want to have a bash". Now anyone who plays golf knows most people who have never played very very rarely picks up a driver for the first time and hits the ball, yup you guessed, air and distance off down the fairway in a straight line, no fluke did the same on the next hole too! Glad she doesn't play otherwise we would be up to a fiver a hole and a tenner for nearest the pin on the par 3's..........double or washing up for a month!

Often said if she was born a few years later I would probably be a kept man living in the States while she played football...............that said the amount of times she has switched on to watch Womens league football - and in no time turned it over to something else because of the quality.

Its quite funny reading these debates on here about Women in sport, but purely down to my missus I have a very open mind.

Bloody ten pin bowling had nights out with strangers to her, she has just been quiet and played, before the evening is out she has drilled her way into their psyche, and they are asking if she comes again she has to play left handed.

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

Incidentally, this afternoon will see the first ever women only motor race. Their stated aim is to try and give women a chance to get into F1. In reality they're just a bunch of drivers who have failed to make any impression in other lower formula.

 

Still, it's on Channel 4 if anyone cares.

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