Weston Super Saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 To stage a demonstration, Baj, Steve and the other Admin team members... It is illegal to break the law whilst carrying out a demonstration, but the act of demonstrating is NOT illegal. I can understand your concerns regarding this site being used to organise crimes, or things which may be against the law, however demonstrating is not illegal. So, for clarification, if a poster were to post something along the lines of "anyone who wants to protest about the club's current regime meet outside a pub [name withheld to protect the innocent!!!!!] at 6.32pm on Tuesday" would they be infracted and banned??
alpine_saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 To stage a demonstration, Baj, Steve and the other Admin team members... It is illegal to break the law whilst carrying out a demonstration, but the act of demonstrating is NOT illegal. I can understand your concerns regarding this site being used to organise crimes, or things which may be against the law, however demonstrating is not illegal. So, for clarification, if a poster were to post something along the lines of "anyone who wants to protest about the club's current regime meet outside a pub [name withheld to protect the innocent!!!!!] at 6.32pm on Tuesday" would they be infracted and banned?? In fairness to the mods, it seems that the site is being "monitored" and they are probably feeling the squeeze. They only want to cover their arses - fair enough.
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Speaking purely for myself in this, I will not condone or permit to appear any message or statement which is or appears to be, libellous, an incitement to commit or an invitation to conspire to commit any illegal act. That said, I am an advocate of free speech and a supporter of direct action and/or measures intended to engineer a change in a situation which a person or persons feels to be not in the best interests of themselves. So, in the spirit of Tolpuddle, onwards.
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 To stage a demonstration, Baj, Steve and the other Admin team members... It is illegal to break the law whilst carrying out a demonstration, but the act of demonstrating is NOT illegal. The highlighted bit is the key part, and that is what was implied in Baj's post. There have been hints and suggestions on various threads of things that are/could be construed as illegal, and as alpine_saint says, with the spotlight likely to be on this forum right now, we felt we needed to emphasise a couple of points (that are already present in the forum rules) which can often be ignored/forgotten in the heat of the moment. I have no doubt that 99% of people on here do know where the line has to be drawn, but that post was probably more for the 1% who don't.
slickmick Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 The highlighted bit is the key part, and that is what was implied in Baj's post. There have been hints and suggestions on various threads of things that are/could be construed as illegal, and as alpine_saint says, with the spotlight likely to be on this forum right now, we felt we needed to emphasise a couple of points (that are already present in the forum rules) which can often be ignored/forgotten in the heat of the moment. I have no doubt that 99% of people on here do know where the line has to be drawn, but that post was probably more for the 1% who don't. Have you had a warning threat ?
DT Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Speaking purely for myself in this, I will not condone or permit to appear any message or statement which is or appears to be, libellous, an incitement to commit or an invitation to conspire to commit any illegal act. That said, I am an advocate of free speech and a supporter of direct action and/or measures intended to engineer a change in a situation which a person or persons feels to be not in the best interests of themselves. So, in the spirit of Tolpuddle, onwards. Erm...weren't the Tolpuddle martyrs' actions illegal? They were certainly arrested and sent to Australia for their crimes. Hang on - seems not such a bad idea these days...
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Have you had a warning threat ? No - it's a pre-emptive strike on our part
wheels Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 [I have no doubt that 99% of people on here do know where the line has to be drawn, but that post was probably more for the 1% who don't. Erm, so why not PM the 1% and tell them the score?
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Erm, so why not PM the 1% and tell them the score? Not all of them have the ability to receive PMs. Besides, a timely reminder to the masses isn't necessarily a bad thing.
wheels Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Not all of them have the ability to receive PMs. Besides, a timely reminder to the masses isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fair enough
Um Bongo Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 So the site is being watched ? Rupert You ****
Weston Saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 So the site is being watched ? Rupert You **** I think you will find it will be Hampshire Police monitoring not Rupert Lowe. The club have always monitored this site and so they should. It is a feedback tool. As for the post from Baj, quite right, the reminder of the rules to all when emotions are high is timely and necessary.
Baj Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Yes, to reiterate, my sentence should read "demonstrations of an illegal nature", not implying that demonstrations are illegal!
Toomer Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Yes, to reiterate, my sentence should read "demonstrations of an illegal nature", not implying that demonstrations are illegal! Baj, one thing to take into consideration is how the club would see it. Peaceful protest is not illegal but the club could take the stance that a demonstration on what they would call as private property is.
Mole Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 I think what the mods are saying is that if you plan to do something illegal don't be a tw4t and drop yourselves (and potentially the site owners) in the **** by posting it on here. I think i know where this warning has come from and fully understand it. For that reason just be careful with PM's too. Not everyone on here can be trusted with the principle of a PM being a Private Message for example.
Scummer Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Baj, one thing to take into consideration is how the club would see it. Peaceful protest is not illegal but the club could take the stance that a demonstration on what they would call as private property is. Isn't a demonstration on private property trespass, and therefore a civil offence?
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 In fairness to the mods, it seems that the site is being "monitored" and they are probably feeling the squeeze. They only want to cover their arses - fair enough. Please tell me more about us being monitored? Who are? How are they squeezing? Whilst I'm not going to break the law, who on earth do they think they are? This is a free country so, as DSM said, anyone raising their voice against Lowe in a legal manner is free to do so. What are they going to do if they read something they don't like? Shut the forum down? It's 2009, not 1984. And while we're on the subject, what about the Echo and it's web site with comments?
saintjay77 Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Erm...weren't the Tolpuddle martyrs' actions illegal? They were certainly arrested and sent to Australia for their crimes. Hang on - seems not such a bad idea these days... Feck me you can count me in on any demo for any reason if thats the outcome.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Stanley is right and this is a good time to remind everyone that you have the ability to report obnoxious PM's if you so wish.
St. Jason Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Isn't a demonstration on private property trespass, and therefore a civil offence? Surely if you've paid to enter the property (ie match ticket) then your not trespassing?? Just a thought!!
alpine_saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Please tell me more about us being monitored? Who are? How are they squeezing? Whilst I'm not going to break the law, who on earth do they think they are? This is a free country so, as DSM said, anyone raising their voice against Lowe in a legal manner is free to do so. What are they going to do if they read something they don't like? Shut the forum down? It's 2009, not 1984. And while we're on the subject, what about the Echo and it's web site with comments? I havent speculated on who IS or WOULD BE behind the squeezing, but the fact that the mods have issued that notice confirms that they feel that a bit of restraint is needed or there will be drastic consequences.
Thedelldays Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Surely if you've paid to enter the property (ie match ticket) then your not trespassing?? Just a thought!! but you ar bound to act accordingly that the club see fit...surely..?
alpine_saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Surely if you've paid to enter the property (ie match ticket) then your not trespassing?? Just a thought!! I suppose if you behave in a certain manner and have the right of entry withdrawn, you are immediately trespassing. Sorry, Lowe and the club are always going to win this particular little battle. The only thing is, can the club afford the bills Hampshire Constabulary will produce if they decide for a rigorous clamping-down on dissent ?
Mole Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Surely if you've paid to enter the property (ie match ticket) then your not trespassing?? Just a thought!! I agree with point and it's a good one. I could be wrong and there may be something in the small print but as far as i can see it the reception area (bar cordoned off areas) is open to fans. If fans wish to gather to appalud Rupert Lowe or the team in this area i can't see the club having an issue and therefore i can't see the club having an issue with a peaceful protest in this area. Just my thoughts on this.
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 I think what the mods are saying is that if you plan to do something illegal don't be a tw4t and drop yourselves (and potentially the site owners) in the **** by posting it on here. I'd probably personally go as far as to say don't be a **** and do something illegal, but otherwise spot on... I think I need a lie down, I've agreed with you on something I think i know where this warning has come from and fully understand it. It hasn't come from anywhere other than us noticing a few posts that have hinted at getting a bit close to the wire. Surely if you've paid to enter the property (ie match ticket) then your not trespassing?? You've paid to enter the ground on the condition that you agree and accept the ground regulations. Invading the pitch, bringing prohibited items into the ground, etc are all against the ground regulations and the club are well within their rights to remove you from the premises (forcibly, if necessary) if you break those rules.
St. Jason Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 I agree with point and it's a good one. I could be wrong and there may be something in the small print but as far as i can see it the reception area (bar cordoned off areas) is open to fans. If fans wish to gather to appalud Rupert Lowe or the team in this area i can't see the club having an issue and therefore i can't see the club having an issue with a peaceful protest in this area. Just my thoughts on this. As you say mate as long as things stay peaceful I can't see a problem. I think the club would find it extremely difficult to prosecute anyone for trespass if they are holding a valid match day ticket, to be honest I couldn't see the cps even accepting the case! If its really an issue surely fans could just congregate on the PUBLIC footpath's that surround the stadium???
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 As you say mate as long as things stay peaceful I can't see a problem. Given that you've called for "militant, aggressive action", I would suggest that a "peaceful" protest might not be your highest priority. I think the club would find it extremely difficult to prosecute anyone for trespass if they are holding a valid match day ticket, to be honest I couldn't see the cps even accepting the case! They wouldn't prosecute - it wouldn't be worth the hassle - but they'd be well within their rights to remove you from the premises and impose a ban if they so wished.
Victor Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Please tell me more about us being monitored? Who are? How are they squeezing? Whilst I'm not going to break the law, who on earth do they think they are? This is a free country so, as DSM said, anyone raising their voice against Lowe in a legal manner is free to do so. What are they going to do if they read something they don't like? Shut the forum down? It's 2009, not 1984. There was a forum that was closed within the last year or so as a director, or similar, objected to a statement. Can't remember the club involved and believe the statement was proved libellous - even though it was basically no more than mild criticism. A liitle bit of mild trespassing, however, never hurt anyone. And, surely, the club has made an arse of itself so often recently that they wouldn't prosecute any one for something like that - except David Armstrong!
St. Jason Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 You've paid to enter the ground on the condition that you agree and accept the ground regulations. Invading the pitch, bringing prohibited items into the ground, etc are all against the ground regulations and the club are well within their rights to remove you from the premises (forcibly, if necessary) if you break those rules. i know where your coming from with this point but I was answering the point about trespass! My point is how can you be charged with trespass for congregating outside the main entrance when you have a match day ticket? Peaceful, democratic protesting is surely permitted in this day and age, I'd guess you'd struggle to find anything in the ground regulations that say we're not allowed to congregate??
Mole Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 As you say mate as long as things stay peaceful I can't see a problem. I think the club would find it extremely difficult to prosecute anyone for trespass if they are holding a valid match day ticket, to be honest I couldn't see the cps even accepting the case! If its really an issue surely fans could just congregate on the PUBLIC footpath's that surround the stadium??? If the club make protesting outside reception an issue i can only see it inflaming the situation. Rupert Lowe is a calculating man and i'm sure he'll consider the effects draconian measures will have. Lowe will be wanting to calm the situation in his own interests, inflaming things would not be a wise move. That said this is Rupert Lowe we are talking about and he's a bit of a loose cannon so expecting him to act wisely is perhaps asking too much. From an anti Lowe point of view it'd play right into our hands if he were to wage war on the fans by depriving them their right to peaceful protest as this stance would only serve to isolate him further.
St. Jason Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Given that you've called for "militant, aggressive action", I would suggest that a "peaceful" protest might not be your highest priority. They wouldn't prosecute - it wouldn't be worth the hassle - but they'd be well within their rights to remove you from the premises and impose a ban if they so wished. A ban for what Steve, for standing outside the stadium calling for the removal of the ceo? Surely if this is done in a peaceful manner there is no case to answer, if however you take things to the next level, and are militant and or aggressive then yes, they have the right to remove and or ban you! Note; just because I think the time for aggressive action is here, does not prohibit me from commenting on other threads, does it????
mynameisthehulk Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 There was a forum that was closed within the last year or so as a director, or similar, objected to a statement. Can't remember the club involved and believe the statement was proved libellous - even though it was basically no more than mild criticism. A liitle bit of mild trespassing, however, never hurt anyone. And, surely, the club has made an arse of itself so often recently that they wouldn't prosecute any one for something like that - except David Armstrong! I think it was Sheffield Wednesday...
brightspark Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 [ Erm, so why not PM the 1% and tell them the score? Surely it doesn't matter? Those 1% don't exactly walk round with "nutter" labelled to their foreheads or their user CPs.
Doctoroncall Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 If anyone is organising a demonstration they will need to inform the police beforehand.
SaintRobbie Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 A ban for what Steve, for standing outside the stadium calling for the removal of the ceo? Surely if this is done in a peaceful manner there is no case to answer, if however you take things to the next level, and are militant and or aggressive then yes, they have the right to remove and or ban you! Note; just because I think the time for aggressive action is here, does not prohibit me from commenting on other threads, does it???? Jason, I know where Steve is coming from and he is right to remind people during this very passionate and frustrating time. You can say whatever you like as long as you are not tempted to advocate illegal acts. I am sure that you would not. BUT, for those who are so angry and frustrated that you may, I would suggest to you all that Saints fans are one of the few saleable commodities left to a potential buyer who may be interested in this Club. Militant action may turn off a buyer and send the wrong message about the nature of this football club - which has always been mellow and family oriented. Violence, illegal activity etc will do more harm to your (everyone's!) cause than constructive protest. We need a buyer - we need to see the back of this boardroom and the plc method of running the club. Lets find that buyer....CONSTRUCTIVELY.
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Given that you've called for "militant, aggressive action", I would suggest that a "peaceful" protest might not be your highest priority. They wouldn't prosecute - it wouldn't be worth the hassle - but they'd be well within their rights to remove you from the premises and impose a ban if they so wished. Well said.
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Jason, I know where Steve is coming from and he is right to remind people during this very passionate and frustrating time. You can say whatever you like as long as you are not tempted to advocate illegal acts. I am sure that you would not. BUT, for those who are so angry and frustrated that you may, I would suggest to you all that Saints fans are one of the few saleable commodities left to a potential buyer who may be interested in this Club. Militant action may turn off a buyer and send the wrong message about the nature of this football club - which has always been mellow and family oriented. Violence, illegal activity etc will do more harm to your (everyone's!) cause than constructive protest. We need a buyer - we need to see the back of this boardroom and the plc method of running the club. Lets find that buyer....CONSTRUCTIVELY. He already has on more than one occasion.
SaintRobbie Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 He already has on more than one occasion. I am sure he'll rethink though. Jason - we need to tempt a buyer - not turn one off. Work for that aim constructively.
Channon's Sideburns Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 I think it was Graham Turner at Hereford who also got their forum closed down through items that were posted. Let's not give Rupert the opportunity chaps and chapettes...victory will be ours in the long run. We will get our club back...no mistakes.
VectisSaint Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Please tell me more about us being monitored? Who are? How are they squeezing? Whilst I'm not going to break the law, who on earth do they think they are? This is a free country so, as DSM said, anyone raising their voice against Lowe in a legal manner is free to do so. What are they going to do if they read something they don't like? Shut the forum down? It's 2009, not 1984. And while we're on the subject, what about the Echo and it's web site with comments? This made me chuckle, twice (1) That people still think this is a free country. The UK has never been a free country, that is a myth. (2) That people are surprised that anyone can monitor this message board. We are all monitoring this message board, thats how message boards work. I'm sure several people at SFC and the Hampshire Constabulary take a look at this site every day.
Mole Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 He already has on more than one occasion. What he may or may not have said doesn't excuse the fact that you betrayed a Private Message sent in good faith. You might not see this as being wrong, but others might.
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 BUT, for those who are so angry and frustrated that you may, I would suggest to you all that Saints fans are one of the few saleable commodities left to a potential buyer who may be interested in this Club. Militant action may turn off a buyer and send the wrong message about the nature of this football club - which has always been mellow and family oriented. Violence, illegal activity etc will do more harm to your (everyone's!) cause than constructive protest. We need a buyer - we need to see the back of this boardroom and the plc method of running the club. Lets find that buyer....CONSTRUCTIVELY. Bloody hell, that's Stanley AND SaintRobbie I've agreed with in the same thread. Nurse!
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 What he may or may not have said doesn't excuse the fact that you betrayed a Private Message sent in good faith. You might not see this as being wrong, but others might. Nope. I did a service to the board to make others aware of what idiocy he was planning. It certainly changed my opinion of him and his subsequent posts (as well as his extremely abusive PMS). Judging by the posts from other posters it has changed their opinions of him as well. Job well done IMO.
Weston Super Saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Author Posted 19 January, 2009 Nope. I did a service to the board to make others aware of what idiocy he was planning. It certainly changed my opinion of him and his subsequent posts (as well as his extremely abusive PMS). Judging by the posts from other posters it has changed their opinions of him as well. Job well done IMO. Very sanctimonious. Just a reminder that the contents of PMs should remain private. If anyone has issues with the contents of a Private Message please forward it to an administrator rather than reveal the contents on the site. Many thanks.
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Very sanctimonious. And yet strangely I had no correspondence with any mod. I bet Jason did though,,,
Weston Super Saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Author Posted 19 January, 2009 And yet strangely I had no correspondence with any mod. I bet Jason did though,,, Perhaps you should have had some before making a PRIVATE message PUBLIC :smt102
SET Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 The police are reading you say We paid for your hats We paid for your haaaats What a waste of council tax we paid for your hats Two Hats Two Hats Two Hats
offix Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Wow, all this because of a very silly disclaimer? The ownership of this board must be running really scared of Ru**rt and Quisling if we are now concerned about "aggressive demonstrations". As stated in earlier posts, demonstration are, in most cases, not illegal, aggresive action does not imply anything criminal, disagreeing with the club's management is not a crime, telling the club's management that we want them to f#ck off is not illegal, telling the Quisling that we perceive him as a spineless traitor is not illegal, etc. etc. This board is a legal entity, designed to facilitate freedom of speech. FFS keep it just that.
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2009 Posted 19 January, 2009 Perhaps you should have had some before making a PRIVATE message PUBLIC :smt102 I sent it to the appropriate authority. I just wanted to make it clear who the culprit was if it was ever to happen at SMS. It's a crazy and illegal idea.
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