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Cardiff/Sala - Missing Plane

LGTL

By LGTL,
in The Saints

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
That's not being "honourable", that's just grudgingly doing what they legally have to do.

 

Being "honourable" would be doing the right thing and compensating Nantes as they had agreed to do for the player who, whey have told all and sundry on many occasions, was "Forever a Bluebird".

 

They are only being honourable as Sala is forever a bluebird

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
What is not generally known is that the pilot's approach charts have a diagram which shows wind angle and strength on the rock. This chart shows quadrants that close the runway if the wind exceeds given speeds from some directions. I wouldn't call it dangerous. We used the simulator to prepare for the approach etc and the actual flights proved pretty routine in spite of the rotor effect which needs to be understood in advance so that the right actions are carried out.The approach and engine out escape route at Innsbruck is interesting.

I was going by the usual lists of ‘World’s most dangerous airports but I value your opinion much more highly than those.

Never been there. Was simply going by the nice blue sky in the picture. And the fact that I've never seen a commercial plane roll quite so much in what looked, to the untrained eye, as 'relatively calm skies'

 

It looked to me like a severe case of over-correction.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted

The thing about Gibraltar is the runway length. The sea at both ends. I wouldn't want to lose an engine or burst a tyre just below V1, stopping is hairy. A lot of people practicing just that with a fully loaded aircraft on the simulator didn't make it until well practiced. Taking off I was ready for anything.

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Baird of the land

Baird of the land

Posted
Posted
BBC News - Emiliano Sala plane crash: Footballer was 'let down' by Cardiff, says Willie McKay

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47406109

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

Doesn’t think they could have done anything differently but readily admits they were paying for flight(not a cost share) with a pilot without adequate qualifications for such a commercial flight.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted (edited)
BBC News - Emiliano Sala plane crash: Footballer was 'let down' by Cardiff, says Willie McKay

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47406109

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

McKay is quoted saying that it was not a cost sharing agreement as "Emi wasn't paying anything" and that he was going to pay "whatever Dave (Henderson) was going to charge"

 

That pretty much sums up what was thought. An unqualified private pilot was flying a commercial flight in an aeroplane that wasn't approved to fly commercial flights. What a **** up.

 

I can't see how an insurance company would ever pay out as this was a criminal act.

Edited by derry
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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
Bunch of ****s all round. Blood on their hands. Willie McKay isn't even a registered intermediary so WTF was his role.

 

Filthy ****s.

 

I hope the authorities come down hard on this lot. Obviously they won't, though.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If this comes down to involuntary manslaughter, it's not as easy to sweep under the rug as some dodgy agents fees for African players in Ligue Un.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted

There will be an inquest in front of a directed Jury. It was touch and go whether the Kegworth jury would bring in an unlawful killing verdict. In the event it was accidental death. The Chief Pilot of BM when cross examined stated that despite the pilots having little conversion training on the 737-400 the company had a right to expect that they would carry out their duties. That evening we had a visit from BM's QC who spoke to Patrick Phillips QC, BALPA's QC and told him that because of the CP's testimony, if the jury brought in an unlawful killing verdict they would be withdrawing their cover from the company. In the event it didn't happen.

 

If the jury find that it is an unlawful killing then there will be hell to pay from all quarters. David Henderson hasn't surfaced yet and he is supposed to be the one who managed the aircraft.

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  • 4 weeks later...
SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
As previously stated, Cardiff officially disputing they owned Sala, and so refusing to pay.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/exclusive-cardiff-city-plan-to-tell-fifa-deal-struck-to-buy-emiliano-sala-became-null-and-void-after-he-died/ar-BBVawF2?li=AAnZ9Ug

 

This will certainly have implications for further transfers and deadline day deals

 

Once a bluebird.... ah, f*ck it, he wasn't ours anyway.

 

Classy.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
As previously stated, Cardiff officially disputing they owned Sala, and so refusing to pay.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/exclusive-cardiff-city-plan-to-tell-fifa-deal-struck-to-buy-emiliano-sala-became-null-and-void-after-he-died/ar-BBVawF2?li=AAnZ9Ug

 

This will certainly have implications for further transfers and deadline day deals

I hope they lose. Disgusting.
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egg

egg

Posted
Posted

It's hard to feel anything but contempt for Cardiff. First they wanted the body found and further details re the flight before paying, and now they are trying this line.

 

They're an utter disgrace.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted

Absolute scum club. At the very least they should have paid Nates what they owe (let’s not forget a proportion would be based on performance anyway..) and should be giving his family a % of his weekly salary for the duration of his contract, imo.

 

Milked his death for their own benefit, yet when it comes to coughing up they didn’t want to know.

 

Plenty of quotes in the press from warnock that would suggest he was their player. If he was still here and he’d scored a few goals to lift them out of the bottom 3 would he be their player then?

 

This will backfire on them, I’m sure of it. I hope every club in the land refuses to deal with them in the future. I know it o ran a club I wouldn’t.

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
As previously stated, Cardiff officially disputing they owned Sala, and so refusing to pay.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/exclusive-cardiff-city-plan-to-tell-fifa-deal-struck-to-buy-emiliano-sala-became-null-and-void-after-he-died/ar-BBVawF2?li=AAnZ9Ug

 

 

This will certainly have implications for further transfers and deadline day deals

Despicable

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John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted
As previously stated, Cardiff officially disputing they owned Sala, and so refusing to pay.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/exclusive-cardiff-city-plan-to-tell-fifa-deal-struck-to-buy-emiliano-sala-became-null-and-void-after-he-died/ar-BBVawF2?li=AAnZ9Ug

 

This will certainly have implications for further transfers and deadline day deals

 

One thing is for certain they won't be letting anyone get on a tin pot plane in potentially tricky weather conditions unless they sign a disclaimer first.

 

Pretty obvious that somewhere along the line this was going to get messy, a Club agrees to sell, a Club agrees to buy, (for want of a better term) the product is lost in transit between the 2 Clubs through, I guessing this is still true, making its own delivery arrangements.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
One thing is for certain they won't be letting anyone get on a tin pot plane in potentially tricky weather conditions unless they sign a disclaimer first.

 

Pretty obvious that somewhere along the line this was going to get messy, a Club agrees to sell, a Club agrees to buy, (for want of a better term) the product is lost in transit between the 2 Clubs through, I guessing this is still true, making its own delivery arrangements.

 

That's not the case though, or at least according to the facts which have been presented so far. He was a Cardiff player, making a visit back to Nantes to collect stuff and visit friends.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)
It’s quite interesting reading their boards at the moment. Plenty are supportive of the clubs stance, which surprised me.

 

http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=206083

 

It’s a morally repugnant move, although if it was saints in this position we’d have plenty of idiots on here stating we shouldn’t pay as well no doubt

 

Of course, they'll be sticking up for it, just as they were lapping up all the tributes and flower laying outside the stadium when it occurred.

 

At the end of the day they bought the player, he signed the contract, an absolute tragedy occurred which no one could have pre-empted. Given the money clubs earn in the PL compared to what Nantes get in the French league, Cardiff should settle out of decency and stop trying to look for ways out of an obligation. Sometimes things like this occur, but to have them lapping up the tributes and saying how it will galvanise their team spirit one min, to now saying that they don't want anything to do with the transfer is just so bad and makes me cringe.

 

How they’ve acted around the Sala tragedy should have them relegated by default.

Edited by S-Clarke
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waylander

waylander

Posted
Posted
Of course, they'll be sticking up for it, just as they were lapping up all the tributes and flower laying outside the stadium when it occurred.

 

At the end of the day they bought the player, he signed the contract, an absolute tragedy occurred which no one could have pre-empted. Given the money clubs earn in the PL compared to what Nantes get in the French league, Cardiff should settle out of decency and stop trying to look for ways out of an obligation. Sometimes things like this occur, but to have them lapping up the tributes and saying how it will galvanise their team spirit one min, to now saying that they don't want anything to do with the transfer is just so bad and makes me cringe.

 

How they’ve acted around the Sala tragedy should have them relegated by default.

 

The heart of the Cardiff case appears to be that he did not sign a valid contract. Morally I think they're in the wrong, but legally......?

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the saint in winchester

the saint in winchester

Posted
Posted

Agree with your comments. Unbelievable arrogance and denial of the facts. They milked the mourning process with "Always a Bluebird" ... "Forever in our hearts." Now try to deny he was ever theirs. When do the football authorities get involved - UEFA? FIFA?

Cardiff should have paid immediately, and by their comments - as noted above - they are representing they can't claim on the insurance.

 

Should be a points deduction or wounding up order. When the plane went down, I felt sorry for Cardiff. Now I hate them with a passion.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
The heart of the Cardiff case appears to be that he did not sign a valid contract. Morally I think they're in the wrong, but legally......?

 

The only intention was that he was going to if it turns out he hadn't, which is why whatever the outcome it's very, very bad taste.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
The heart of the Cardiff case appears to be that he did not sign a valid contract. Morally I think they're in the wrong, but legally......?

 

They seem to be trying to wriggle out of it on a technicality, due to the fact that the initial contract he signed was rejected by the PL over 'front-loading' of the signing on fee, rather than spreading it over the duration of the contract.

 

But Nantes claim that FIFA registered the international transfer certificate earlier in the day of the crash, therefore he was Cardiff's player despite not having a valid contract to allow him to play in the PL.

 

For them to claim "Once a Bluebird, forever a Bluebird", then try and wash their hands of it in order to avoid paying a fee is beyond the pale.

 

We'll have to wait and see what FIFA and the PL think of their argument of course, but I expect they will be forced to either pay the fee or face a transfer ban and/or points deduction.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
By stating he wasn't their player they're also avoiding any right to claim under the insurance policies...

 

The whole thing stinks of BS from Cardiff - genuinely hope they go down now because of this and face years of financial ruin.

 

The insurance thing must be a factor. The flight seemed mega dodgy for various reasons.

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
The heart of the Cardiff case appears to be that he did not sign a valid contract. Morally I think they're in the wrong, but legally......?

 

To add to the greyness, there was intent from Cardiff to sign the player - the medical, first contract, promotional photos with player.

 

Nantes completed what they needed and had control over. Cardiff’s incompetence had caused the delay. Maybe Nantes will sue Cardiff because they messed up???

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
By stating he wasn't their player they're also avoiding any right to claim under the insurance policies...

 

The whole thing stinks of BS from Cardiff - genuinely hope they go down now because of this and face years of financial ruin.

 

The insurance thing must be a factor. The flight seemed mega dodgy for various reasons.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted

It looks like there was negligence with the organisation of flights. There was incompetence in the understanding of what constituted a commercial flight. All flights that are paid for are commercial flights. They were mixed up regarding scheduled and unscheduled charter flights.

 

It has been reported that the flights were mostly by the same type of aircraft which was unsuitable for over water flights whether crewed correctly or not.

 

I'd be very surprised if the insurance issue isn't dead in the water.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
It looks like there was negligence with the organisation of flights. There was incompetence in the understanding of what constituted a commercial flight. All flights that are paid for are commercial flights. They were mixed up regarding scheduled and unscheduled charter flights.

 

It has been reported that the flights were mostly by the same type of aircraft which was unsuitable for over water flights whether crewed correctly or not.

 

I'd be very surprised if the insurance issue isn't dead in the water.

 

Hmmm. A poor choice of words, given the circumstances.

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lickierambert

lickierambert

Posted
Posted

Reading between the lines, I'd say the flight booking issues may have invalidated the insurance, or at least Cardiff fear it might have, hence this latest stance.

 

If not, why not pursue the insurance claim under their personal accident policy?

 

Potentially a very, very expensive mistake for the club, notwithstanding the human tragedy behind it

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
Reading between the lines, I'd say the flight booking issues may have invalidated the insurance, or at least Cardiff fear it might have, hence this latest stance.

 

If not, why not pursue the insurance claim under their personal accident policy?

 

Potentially a very, very expensive mistake for the club, notwithstanding the human tragedy behind it

 

yes that makes sense. I did wonder when I saw it if they are taking this stance because they know, or have been advised, that the insurance money won’t be paid out.

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