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Decision Time on Academy Players


Dusic
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Now we are out of the cup and just have league games to go, its fairly unlikely that many of the below will get any game time.

 

These aren't 18 year olds like Ramsay, Obafemi or Valery, they are players who need to be playing mens football every week to build their careers. Some players of this age have 150+ pro games under their belts.

 

I expect most of the below will be sent out on loan before the window shuts but soon we need to make longer term decisions. Personally, I don't feel any are good enough to play regularly in the PL.

 

Josh Sims (21)

Jake Hesketh (22)

Sam Gallagher (23)

Alfie Jones (21)

Harry Lewis (21)

Marcus Barnes (22)

 

On loan:

 

Harrison Reed (24 next week)

 

Next season, a few of these would need to be included in the 25man squad, so need to be brave and decide - if they aren't good enough sell them and include a sell on percentage.

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Is Sims injured? I'm surprised he didn't get on the bench yesterday, ahead of Stattery, given that Ralph has taken a look at a few of our younger players. I agree with the OP, I don't think any of those names look likely to become Premier League players and for their own good they need to move on.

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Now we are out of the cup and just have league games to go, its fairly unlikely that many of the below will get any game time.

 

These aren't 18 year olds like Ramsay, Obafemi or Valery, they are players who need to be playing mens football every week to build their careers. Some players of this age have 150+ pro games under their belts.

 

I expect most of the below will be sent out on loan before the window shuts but soon we need to make longer term decisions. Personally, I don't feel any are good enough to play regularly in the PL.

 

Josh Sims (21)

Jake Hesketh (22)

Sam Gallagher (23)

Alfie Jones (21)

Harry Lewis (21)

Marcus Barnes (22)

 

On loan:

 

Harrison Reed (24 next week)

 

Next season, a few of these would need to be included in the 25man squad, so need to be brave and decide - if they aren't good enough sell them and include a sell on percentage.

 

To be honest i very much doubt any of them will be good enough. I’d be inclined to give Sims, Barnes and Hesketh a run of games at the end of the season, when we’re safe, to asses. Possibly keep Jones for another year and send on loan to the championship if we can find a club.

 

Cash in on Reed and Gallagher, we might get around £10m for the both.

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Now we are out of the cup and just have league games to go, its fairly unlikely that many of the below will get any game time.

 

These aren't 18 year olds like Ramsay, Obafemi or Valery, they are players who need to be playing mens football every week to build their careers. Some players of this age have 150+ pro games under their belts.

 

I expect most of the below will be sent out on loan before the window shuts but soon we need to make longer term decisions. Personally, I don't feel any are good enough to play regularly in the PL.

 

Josh Sims (21)

Jake Hesketh (22)

Sam Gallagher (23)

Alfie Jones (21)

Harry Lewis (21)

Marcus Barnes (22)

 

On loan:

 

Harrison Reed (24 next week)

 

Next season, a few of these would need to be included in the 25man squad, so need to be brave and decide - if they aren't good enough sell them and include a sell on percentage.

Two of them are already in the 25 man squad (Gallagher and Barnes), Hesketh needs to be included if he is going to play, no indication thus far that it has been done. Harry Lewis being a goalkeeper, is long term, and our number 3, unlikely he will not be retained next season. Can't see that Ralph would have added Barnes last week if it wasn't his intention to use him in the remainder of this season. Don't believe for a minute that Alfie Jones won't be retained next season. Sims doesn't seem to have progressed and it doesn't look like Ralph is going to use him, so I guess he will probably be released, shame, thought he was going to be one that developed sufficiently. Harry Reed will probably come back next season. We will be unloading a few of the current squad no doubt (Forster, Rose, Austin, Long, Elyanoussi, Hoedt, Boufal, Carrillo, Clasie) so there will be some spaces. I guess to some extent it all depends what happens to us next season, if we were to drop to the Championship, which is still a possibility though increasingly unlikely I could see all of the above remaining.

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Totally agree.

I thought JWP and Redmond were not good enough until he came along and changed them.

 

Exactly this. Let's not write off players that might flourish under this manager. If Valery and Slattery can do a job, I dare say at least one of those guys can. Let's remember that most of our fans thought Bednarek wasn't good enough for the first team at the start of the season.

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Get rid of them all apart from Reed, I think be can be a squad player. The rest of them are not going to make it here.

 

I cannot see him getting game time ahead of Romeu, Hoj and Lemina and if I were him I wouldn't be sitting around waiting for those rare moments when two of them are injured.

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Yeah, 21 is still very early to be judging. Stephens is 24 now which is a good example.

 

Ben Reeves was 21 when we let him go and he has spent his whole career in League 1 since then. I think 21/22 is make or break territory at this level. Obviously the youth team coaches see him far more than any of us and will ultimately be the ones who decide his fate but when the only thing on your CV is 'sent back early by bottom of the SPL St Mirren' it doesn't look too promising.

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Get rid of them all, not good enough.

 

Get rid of them all apart from Reed, I think be can be a squad player. The rest of them are not going to make it here.

 

Seriously? Did you not watch the fan forum? These are the future of our club. Ralph has spoken.

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Ben Reeves was 21 when we let him go and he has spent his whole career in League 1 since then. I think 21/22 is make or break territory at this level. Obviously the youth team coaches see him far more than any of us and will ultimately be the ones who decide his fate but when the only thing on your CV is 'sent back early by bottom of the SPL St Mirren' it doesn't look too promising.

 

It's hard to compare people & experiences though. Jack Stephen's barely played for 'Boro in the championship - I'm glad we didn't write him off.

 

Stephens & Turnball both really impressed at Swindon, yet look at them now.

 

Apples & oranges anyway - We can't really compare Reeves to Jones.

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Glad it ain’t anyone on here’s decision.

 

Glad the bloke making the decision seems to have a good idea of what he’s looking for!

 

Why would it ever be anyone on here's decision?

 

If on that basis it shouldn't be discussed on here then we may as well shut the forum down!

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Some have reached those ages without making it because they aren't good enough. Some will reach those ages without making it because they haven't been given the game time or coaching to make it.

 

Deciding which is which is the tricky bit. From that list I've seen enough from Sims and Gallagher to give them more chances, and know they can offer at least what Elyounsoussi and Long have to the team.

 

Sims is worth keeping, Gallagher showed in his cup effort that he is a million miles from looking like a Premier League footballer and we should bin him off as soon as possible. Elyounoussi has now been anonymous for 6 months but that's still only an eighth of the time since Gallagher last did something positive in the first team. Long is more than worth his place in a squad built around workrate and pressing, even if he can't actually score goals.

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I’m not sure whether it is ‘Decision Time’ now anymore that at at any other time.

 

The simple fact is that the 25 man squad rule automatically encourages us not to hold on to too many over-21 players. We can only have 25 over-21s in our squad and whoever is over-21 and doesn’t make the squad needs to be loaned out or sold (or less ideally used exclusively for the U23s and Cups as Marcus Barnes was until last month).

 

It is financially wasteful to have players out on loan who we never really want back (e.g. Carrillo), but I don’t think we have the same problem with loaning out our 21-24 year old Academy graduates who may well still develop (and I assume are on much lower wages).

 

If we have a potential transfer lined-up that Ralph thinks could go straight into the first team, then one more borderline over-21 player will be removed from the squad to make space in the 25 (and be sold or loaned). If he thinks we already have someone just as good, then we wouldn’t do the transfer.

 

I think these things automatically work themselves out overall. One in, one out. The only barrier is the club’s budget (and talent) for buying players who are better than the over-21s who aren’t making our first team.

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Interesting how Sam Gallagher can be written off after a 15 minute subs cameo!! This manager has proved what can be done with good coaching and self-belief. There were 6 former England under 21 players on the pitch on Saturday, including JWP, Redmond and Stephens who have all been written off by many on here. Trust in Ralph - he seems to know what he's doing.

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Ben Reeves was 21 when we let him go and he has spent his whole career in League 1 since then. I think 21/22 is make or break territory at this level. Obviously the youth team coaches see him far more than any of us and will ultimately be the ones who decide his fate but when the only thing on your CV is 'sent back early by bottom of the SPL St Mirren' it doesn't look too promising.

 

Pretty sure Jones was recalled by us. I think all our loan players were so Ralf could get a look at them.

 

 

Interesting how Sam Gallagher can be written off after a 15 minute subs cameo!! This manager has proved what can be done with good coaching and self-belief. There were 6 former England under 21 players on the pitch on Saturday, including JWP, Redmond and Stephens who have all been written off by many on here. Trust in Ralph - he seems to know what he's doing.

 

15 minute sub cameo after several months injured as well.

 

And a 15 minute cameo where the manager thought he had done well.

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Why would it ever be anyone on here's decision?

 

If on that basis it shouldn't be discussed on here then we may as well shut the forum down!

 

Not saying it shouldn't be discussed at all, just reading through comments on players who should be cast off to the wind, I am glad it ain't down to the 'experts' on this forum to decide who stays and who goes from the academy.

 

There is a new broom sweeping through the club, and the door is open to those who want "to get on the train". As Ralph said the other day in the mini fan forum there are a few lads who just need polishing.

 

Bayern Munich has a heap of nippers in their squad its become their way of thinking. They are prepared to pay, by Saints standards, eye watering money for Hudson Odoi from Chelsea, he can't get in the Chelsea team because his way is blocked by big money signings, and will be even further by the latest lad from Dortmund who has gone back to them on loan, who plays in the same position as Hudson Odoi and is a similar age. Why are they prepared to spend that kind of money? probably because they have seen he has the raw playing attributes that fit their blueprint, and is still enough of a blank canvas to honed and moulded into a Bayern style player.

 

I wouldn't be overly surprised if none of that list is sent out on loan by the end of this window if Ralph believes they can be moulded into his style of player.

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^ German clubs do have a fantastic record of producing talent, probably up there with the likes of Ajax and Barcelona.

 

It doesn't just come down to the talent available to them but their coaching methods as well where they make the most of that talent.

 

I wouldn't write any of our youngsters off until Ralf has got to look at them and had time with them.

 

Improving 21,22, 23 year olds is pretty much Bournemouth's MO at the moment and one of the reasons Howe is so highly rated. Look at for example the likes of Smith and King, they were like 21-22 when they joined Bournemouth, hadn't exactly done much before that and he has moulded them into good premier league players who play a role for their team.

Edited by tajjuk
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