Kayne Ramsay - Official: Loaned to Crewe

[VectisSaint]

Surprised that we have allowed him to go to a mid table League One club. For someone on the fringes of the 1st team, he really should have been put into a Championship team if he is to progress. Sounds to me like we have decided that he is not going to progress at Saints.

[bangkoksaint]

I have ST’s at The Alex - I live in the North and go to Saints and Alex games. I’ll keep a close eye on him!!

[skintsaint]

8 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

For someone on the fringes of the 1st team, he really should have been put into a Championship team if he is to progress.

Think it says more about our squad quality than his ability to me.

[suewhistle]

Perhaps the point should be made that we want our loanees to get plenty of playing time, which will be more likely at a lower level. It'll still help with his match fitness and toughening him up against seasoned, mature professionals in proper games, not some u-23 training type game.

[egg]

44 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Perhaps the point should be made that we want our loanees to get plenty of playing time, which will be more likely at a lower level. It'll still help with his match fitness and toughening him up against seasoned, mature professionals in proper games, not some u-23 training type game.

There's logic in that Sue, but the club have as good as said that the policy is to develop them here, and that loans are for players on the way out. 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

There's logic in that Sue, but the club have as good as said that the policy is to develop them here, and that loans are for players on the way out. 

I don't understand why we would not loan some players out that just need real game time, especially keepers and CBs. OK, so its less refined, but many lower eague sides play very good passing footbalI. If it is good enough for Harry Kane...

[egg]

Just now, Chez said:

I don't understand why we would not loan some players out that just need real game time, especially keepers and CBs. OK, so its less refined, but many lower eague sides play very good passing footbalI. If it is good enough for Harry Kane...

I don't either. I'm a fan of loaning players out to get games at a competitive level. A season at Crewe rather than baby-sitting 17 year old in our under 23's will do him the world of good. 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I don't either. I'm a fan of loaning players out to get games at a competitive level. A season at Crewe rather than baby-sitting 17 year old in our under 23's will do him the world of good. 

I worry though that our scouting system is not manned to the extent that players sent out on loan can all be watched most weeks. 

[The Cat]

16 minutes ago, Chez said:

I worry though that our scouting system is not manned to the extent that players sent out on loan can all be watched most weeks. 

Am I right in saying that Kelvin Davis has a role in overseeing the loan players and reporting back on their progress? Sure I read that somewhere.

[egg]

15 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Am I right in saying that Kelvin Davis has a role in overseeing the loan players and reporting back on their progress? Sure I read that somewhere.

When he became a coach he was a kind of link man between dressing room and management, but not sure about the loan monitoring part, or his current role. 

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, egg said:

There's logic in that Sue, but the club have as good as said that the policy is to develop them here, and that loans are for players on the way out. 

Wasn’t that a couple of years ago though? (Could be wrong) Maybe since Crocker has returned the policy has changed? 

As you say, playing week in week out at a decent level is better than playing U23’s. Not that I think Ramsay will make it here 
 

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, egg said:

When he became a coach he was a kind of link man between dressing room and management, but not sure about the loan monitoring part, or his current role. 

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2016-07-13/davis-appointed-football-development-executive

This is it, although he's moved on from that role now. I wonder if we have a current Football Development Executive?

[SuperSAINT]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

Am I right in saying that Kelvin Davis has a role in overseeing the loan players and reporting back on their progress? Sure I read that somewhere.

 

8 minutes ago, The Cat said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2016-07-13/davis-appointed-football-development-executive

This is it, although he's moved on from that role now. I wonder if we have a current Football Development Executive?

Danny Butterfield does this.

His exact (rather wordy) title is — Player Pathways lead (Loans manager) 

[SuperSAINT]

1 hour ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Wasn’t that a couple of years ago though? (Could be wrong) Maybe since Crocker has returned the policy has changed? 

As you say, playing week in week out at a decent level is better than playing U23’s. Not that I think Ramsay will make it here 
 

I think Crocker instigated this latest change.  See below from November 2020 from his interview with Dan Sheldon.

  

On 18/11/2020 at 20:53, SO16_Saint said:

While discussing the pathway from B team to the senior squad, Crocker made it clear that loaning out young players, except in special circumstances, will be a thing of the past.

The club’s director of football doesn’t see the value in sending an 18-year-old out on loan when he has all the tools to succeed at Southampton, especially now there is a B team that emphasises closing the gap to the first team.

“If you look over the last 10 years, our statistics tell us, in the main, that the players come through our academy, train with the first team, join the first-team squad and then play for the first team,” says Crocker. “Very rarely have we had successful players who have gone on loan and then come back. We have moved away from the loan system. The B team will be our strongest asset. Ralph and his staff will be at their games, and the players will get a sense that these games actually matter and will help them get closer to the first team.

“On the odd occasion we will do loans, but that won’t be because an agent has said, ‘He’s 18 now and needs to go on loan’. That’s just ridiculous. I sometimes hear this suggestion they should be sent on loan to grow up. If we haven’t helped them grow up in the last 10 years at the academy, then we haven’t done our job properly.

“There is no point in us sending an 18-year-old kid — no disrespect — to a League Two club if they don’t play similarly to us. I’m not sure what we would get out of that unless there is a specific, physical or mental reason for us to do that.

“Maybe a player does need to go and experience a different culture and environment or maybe just needs to spend some time away from his mum and dad to go and live independently. But in the main, we can do that here and keep a closer eye on them.”

 

Edited 25 June, 2021 by SuperSAINT

[The Cat]

I dunno, maybe it's best to treat every player differently depending on their individual needs. 

Kane is the prime example of the system working, on the other hand you have Foden who they purposefully kept away from loans and gradually eased into the first team instead.

Maybe it's not a one rule fits all kind of decision?

[suewhistle]

2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

I dunno, maybe it's best to treat every player differently depending on their individual needs.

 

I think this is is probably my view, having been a teacher for a while, differentiation and all that.. What Egg was saying about what the club were saying is certainly true, but guidelines should always be flexible, and as The Cat touched on, there are plenty of examples of loan spells really helping.

In the case of Ramsay not a clue although he seemed to have the basic physical attributes when I saw him live. Gawd knows we need some back up full backs!

 

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

I think Crocker instigated this latest change.  See below from November 2020 from his interview with Dan Sheldon.

  

 

Fair do’s, for some reason I thought it was in Les’ era - think that confirms he won’t be making it here then!

Cheers SuperSaint

[SuperSAINT]

13 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Fair do’s, for some reason I thought it was in Les’ era - think that confirms he won’t be making it here then!

Cheers SuperSaint

There was a point with Les where he was saying that players are better off staying and training with the first team rather than going out on loan etc.

I think there's a point where that is valid, but for players who aren't ridiculously good (Theo / Ox / Shaw etc) that once they reach a certain age, going out on loan would benefit them.  Harry Reed being one.

[SuperSAINT]

 

[HarvSFC]

Two of the three (don’t know who the others are) are Jack Harrison and Kalvin Phillips too.