CB Fry Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Best in what way exactly? Defending the back post? Heading? Putting crosses into the same post code as the strikers? He really isn't any great loss.Best at being better than the other right backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Best in what way exactly? Defending the back post? Heading? Putting crosses into the same post code as the strikers? He really isn't any great loss. He rarely, if ever gets beaten on the ground which is the first job of a fullback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Best at being better than the other right backs. You said that before, I asked in what way. You haven't explained. The fella can't head, can't cross, can't defend the back post. He's also out of contract soon. Getting rid is a no brainer. Valery has proved good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 You said that before, I asked in what way. You haven't explained. The fella can't head, can't cross, can't defend the back post. He's also out of contract soon. Getting rid is a no brainer. Valery has proved good enough. Valery has far from proved he is good enough. Criminally exposed at Cardiff against an average winger and a ridiculous sending off at Leicester. He also looked very very average against West Ham. I’d say he’s had a 5/10 start. A couple of good games a couple of very bad games. No way consistent enough to be our first choice RB. With Hodet and Cedric now both gone, that is the bad egos removed. Cedric was never trouble, from what I’m told, but just thought he was better than us and wanted out for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwbu Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Absolutely appalling crossing, never seen a player hit the ball out of play from a cross as often as he does. Lost count of the number of times we’ve lost points because big strikers have pulled off to the back post to beat Cedric in the air. He may not get beaten very often on the ground, but he constantly gives his man acres of space to cross or shoot, so they don’t really have to beat him. He just isn’t good enough. Nothing against him personally, went to that Saints quiz thing last year and he seemed a good character, and I don’t see a lack of effort from him on the pitch, but we absolutely can improve on him and need to if we are going to progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Pete Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 You said that before, I asked in what way. You haven't explained. The fella can't head, can't cross, can't defend the back post. He's also out of contract soon. Getting rid is a no brainer. Valery has proved good enough.If Cedric is so superfluous, how come he's been on the pitch for at least 2 thirds of our last 3 successful games? I don't think getting rid of Cedric with no replacement is a "no brainer" at all. More like brainless. And Valery, whilst doing an OK job for a novice, has shown weaknesses in a number of games, so in no way has proved he is better than Cedric at this stage. Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Rumours sound that Cedric had fallen out with the rest of the team. When he wasn't playing, he was blanked by the rest of the team outside the matchday squad when they were in the players ' box on matchdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 It looks like Saints have decided we have enough to stay up. Better to get rid of deadwood, trim the squad and slowly rebuild the Ralph way. That makes more sense in the Summer rather than panic buys in January, unless the odd bargain pops up. I'm OK with that That leaves the forum free to bicker over who knows best and who said what - what its here for COYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 ...... but we absolutely can improve on him and need to if we are going to progress. Which then begs the question, is Valery that improvement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Panic buys haven't exactly worked that well previously in January. Carrillo springs to mind! I think it prudent to trim the squad in anticipation for a renovation in the summer. We don't need squad players, we need quality - hard to come by in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 After reading this in Ralph's Sky interview maybe Ralph is a manager who prefers a smaller squad you get the feeling he is using this window to weed out those elements of the squad that don't fit for him. "It's a package. If you find a young player who has potential and quality then we'll think about a transfer. The more important thing in this transfer period is to give players away, to have a committed group that is not too big." Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk 18-20 apparently.... https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/17383445.southampton-manager-ralph-hasenhuttl-wants-a-much-smaller-squad/?ref=mr&lp=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwbu Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Which then begs the question, is Valery that improvement ? That’s subjective I guess, I wouldn’t say he’s amazing, but we’ve won 4 games from 8 with him in the team, so I wouldn’t say he’s a weakness either. Hazard and Richarlison have both failed to score against him and I don’t think we’ve conceded any headers from players he’s been marking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 I'm all for selling the 'dead wood' in the squad but so far we've got rid of our second best striker, an experienced midfielder and are looking to offload our only experienced RB. I think we're making a massive gamble on Ralph being the messiah and keeping us up with whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 If Ralph thinks we've got enough at RB without Cedric then I trust him, we've got Valery, Ramsey and Stephens that can play there. Though I'm a fan of Cedric, if he's not going to be in the long-term planning it makes sense to sell high in winter and buy cheaper in summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 18-20 apparently.... https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/17383445.southampton-manager-ralph-hasenhuttl-wants-a-much-smaller-squad/?ref=mr&lp=1 Makes perfect sense. Also shows his confidence and desire in working with and improving players. Trim the squad, add 2/3 of quality and give an opportunity for the youngsters to step up. I wonder how many transfer windows we'll need to achieve that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 I think we're making a massive gamble on Ralph being the messiah and keeping us up with whatever. With all due respect, all views welcome etc, but I trust Ralph more than anyone on this forum I hope you don't have the last laugh in May! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicBoom Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 I think it's a worry. I understand that RH wants the players he wants but two games ago we looked terrible and were in the bottom three. Suddenly all our woes are over? This month we have moved Gabbiadini, Hoedt, and probably Soares. I wasn't a huge fan of any of them tbh but to let them go without replacing them in any way must make the squad weaker. For a team that 2 games ago was in big trouble that is a hell of a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 The only problem is most of them will be back in the summer so we have to try and shift them all over again, Ralph will have half a team returning to us from loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 You said that before, I asked in what way. You haven't explained. The fella can't head, can't cross, can't defend the back post. He's also out of contract soon. Getting rid is a no brainer. Valery has proved good enough. Don’t talk nonsense man. He’s clearly the best RB at the club, head and shoulders above Valery. Think about it for a minute, why do Inter Milan want him? Either their head of recruitment is an idiot, or you are. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 I'm all for selling the 'dead wood' in the squad but so far we've got rid of our second best striker, an experienced midfielder and are looking to offload our only experienced RB. I think we're making a massive gamble on Ralph being the messiah and keeping us up with whatever. Agree. Ralph is a breath of fresh air but if the squad is not strengthened then the chance of relegation is still uncomfortably near. This window has the appearance of many past in the last 3 years - the big positive is RH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 I'm all for selling the 'dead wood' in the squad but so far we've got rid of our second best striker, an experienced midfielder and are looking to offload our only experienced RB. I think we're making a massive gamble on Ralph being the messiah and keeping us up with whatever. A second best striker that can't score, an experienced midfielder a season past his best, and a RB that can't cross, and is beaten at set pieces. Don't make them out to be great players, because they were not, even at their prime. I for one, am looking ahead, not back at the dross served up these past three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 A second best striker that can't score, an experienced midfielder a season past his best, and a RB that can't cross, and is beaten at set pieces. Don't make them out to be great players, because they were not, even at their prime. I for one, am looking ahead, not back at the dross served up these past three years. I never said they were great, I just said what they are. Ings is the only striker I'd rate above Gabbi and our only RB options are raw to say the least. We need another attacking player at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 With all due respect, all views welcome etc, but I trust Ralph more than anyone on this forum I hope you don't have the last laugh in May! Depends which Ralph you're on about. If it's Rabbit then I do indeed trust him more than anyone on here but who's to say it's his choice? He may well have been brought in under the proviso, "look we need to offload players in order to buy in summer." If we do go down I sure as heck wont be laughing in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Best in what way exactly? Defending the back post? Heading? Putting crosses into the same post code as the strikers? He really isn't any great loss. Defending the back post is a centre-backs job. Cedric has been bailing out our inept centre backs for the last year with covering play he shouldn't have been doing. He's never been a great crosser but he's always been a good defender, as someone above said if he'd been playing against Cardiff he would have had an average winger like Josh Murphy in his pocket, but Valery struggled. He is probably the best defender we have and definitely the best right back we have. He is IMO a loss, especially at a crucial time like this. For example for me Valery is a big worry vs Zaha, that is going to be a huge test and his performances 1v1 against lesser players worry me, whereas Cedric has the pace, positioning and 1v1 defending ability to keep Zaha quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue_Saint Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Defending the back post is a centre-backs job. Cedric has been bailing out our inept centre backs for the last year with covering play he shouldn't have been doing. He's never been a great crosser but he's always been a good defender, as someone above said if he'd been playing against Cardiff he would have had an average winger like Josh Murphy in his pocket, but Valery struggled. He is probably the best defender we have and definitely the best right back we have. He is IMO a loss, especially at a crucial time like this. For example for me Valery is a big worry vs Zaha, that is going to be a huge test and his performances 1v1 against lesser players worry me, whereas Cedric has the pace, positioning and 1v1 defending ability to keep Zaha quiet. “The best defender we have” For all the paragraphs you deliver on here, your football IQ is suspect mate. Good job our manager and majority of folk on here understand the need to replace your mate Cedric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 “The best defender we have” For all the paragraphs you deliver on here, your football IQ is suspect mate. Good job our manager and majority of folk on here understand the need to replace your mate Cedric.Except it doesn't look like they are replacing him... Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkoksaint Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 So this the Cedric thread and the Cedric thread is also a Cedric thread. If I want to know about Cedric I know where to go!! Anyway I’ve heard we’re in for Lallana on loan - actually that’s a lie but it’s more interesting than pages on ..........Cedric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Love the work to bring the number of players in the squad down, and then supplementing from the youth team. You're looking at saving £16m a year just by doing that. However, not sure about Cedric leaving - always quite rated him myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 So this the Cedric thread and the Cedric thread is also a Cedric thread. If I want to know about Cedric I know where to go!! Anyway I’ve heard we’re in for Lallana on loan - actually that’s a lie but it’s more interesting than pages on ..........Cedric �� Top post. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Except it doesn't look like they are replacing him... Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk Let's just wait until 1st Feb before we start bashing the club over this. It's entirely possible that this "don't need to replace him" line is just a smokescreen. If we really are in for this young Danish lad from Genk, we're hardly likely to go shouting about how desperate we are to sign a RB and how much money we've got from the Cedric deal. That would be straight out of the Theresa May negotiation playbook. Yes, the club has got recent form for selling experienced defenders in the January window and failing to adequately replace them. If they have failed to learn a lesson from that then it could prove costly, but let's wait and see shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 For me Ramsay has been a massive weak link vs both City and Derby. He just isn't ready for PL football. Why lose Cedric for €500k given the position we are in and the lack of suitable cover for Valery? Ramsay could end up playing 10 PL games before now and the end of the season. Madness. Cedric has the most apps out of all our full backs this season and regardless of his long term position, he is a proven PL level player, hence a team like Inter want him. If he was being sold I would agree with it, but for a €500k loan its bizarre. If the squad is too big, send Ramsay back to the U23s to learn his trade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 If Ralph thinks we've got enough at RB without Cedric then I trust him, we've got Valery, Ramsey and Stephens that can play there. Though I'm a fan of Cedric, if he's not going to be in the long-term planning it makes sense to sell high in winter and buy cheaper in summer. We haven’t sold high in the winter though have we? It’s a loan with an option to make permanent for €11m, which no doubt Inter will look to negotiate down in the summer as he’ll only have 12 months on his contract. Pretty pathetic business IMO. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Why has all the abuse and hostility directed at Cedric on this forum suddenly changed to 'we will miss him' 'shouldn't let him go' 'we've got no cover' 'Cedrics the best back we've got' and so on. We don't really learn much on thhis foorum, just a load of opinions which cancel each other out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 “The best defender we have” For all the paragraphs you deliver on here, your football IQ is suspect mate. Good job our manager and majority of folk on here understand the need to replace your mate Cedric. Right back at you to be honest, do you not wonder why Inter actually want him? A team currently 3rd in Serie A who have been playing Champions League football this year and are way better than us, I am presuming you think their 'football IQ' is suspect as well then? 'Need', what 'need' is there to replace him right now, IF he is disrupting the squad maybe (but I doubt this), but in footballing terms there is no need and it very much looks like we are not replacing him anyway. We are loaning our our best right back and leaving ourselves with two teenagers who lack experience whilst we are in a relegation battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Cedric, all signed at Inter. Done and dusted. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Defending the back post is a centre-backs job. Cedric has been bailing out our inept centre backs for the last year with covering play he shouldn't have been doing. He's never been a great crosser but he's always been a good defender, as someone above said if he'd been playing against Cardiff he would have had an average winger like Josh Murphy in his pocket, but Valery struggled. He is probably the best defender we have and definitely the best right back we have. He is IMO a loss, especially at a crucial time like this. For example for me Valery is a big worry vs Zaha, that is going to be a huge test and his performances 1v1 against lesser players worry me, whereas Cedric has the pace, positioning and 1v1 defending ability to keep Zaha quiet. Full backs have to defend, it's their main duty. That includes the back post. Cedric, one on one, defends well. In all other respects he doesn't and suggesting he is (or was) our best defender is nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Best at being better than the other right backs. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 I can see both sides of this argument. I think Cedric is a very good defender who also stretches the opposition team by hugging the touchline and getting forward. His touch is also very good and he can run with the ball. His delivery is often patchy and he's pretty poor in the air but apart from that I think he's a good full-back. Valery looks raw and has obvious flaws in his game. However, he might be at the stage where he needs first team football to improve and Ralph obviously sees something there he wants to work with. I expect he believes that Valery will come good with enough coaching and first team experience. I haven't seen enough of Ramsay to really offer much of an opinion on him. He's not even played full-back for a full game so far and has often been shunted in to right sided CB in a 3. I've seen him put in one cross from deep in open play that was whipped in with good bend on it, but apart from that he's looked a bit uncomfortable with the ball. Maybe Ralph's thinking about playing JWP as a right wing-back so he can fit in Hoj and Romeu at CM and get both Armstrong and Redmond supporting Ings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Cedric, all signed at Inter. Done and dusted. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Loan or sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Full backs have to defend, it's their main duty. That includes the back post. Cedric, one on one, defends well. In all other respects he doesn't and suggesting he is (or was) our best defender is nuts. He defends the back post fine, he doesn't defend big strikers pulling onto him like pretty much every fullback in the country as they are all generally not very big, which is where the centre backs are supposed to help him out. Defensively he has always been a very good player and to suggest otherwise is nuts IMO or you are literally blind. Hence why a club of Inters level want him, because they are signing a good full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 I can see both sides of this argument. I think Cedric is a very good defender who also stretches the opposition team by hugging the touchline and getting forward. His touch is also very good and he can run with the ball. His delivery is often patchy and he's pretty poor in the air but apart from that I think he's a good full-back. Valery looks raw and has obvious flaws in his game. However, he might be at the stage where he needs first team football to improve and Ralph obviously sees something there he wants to work with. I expect he believes that Valery will come good with enough coaching and first team experience. I haven't seen enough of Ramsay to really offer much of an opinion on him. He's not even played full-back for a full game so far and has often been shunted in to right sided CB in a 3. I've seen him put in one cross from deep in open play that was whipped in with good bend on it, but apart from that he's looked a bit uncomfortable with the ball. Maybe Ralph's thinking about playing JWP as a right wing-back so he can fit in Hoj and Romeu at CM and get both Armstrong and Redmond supporting Ings? I think that converting JWP to a full back might be a good move all round. With some experience he might prove to be outstanding there. But the middle of a season in a relegation battle would be an odd time to start trying it. Not convinced that loaning Cedric out at this stage is a great idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Loan or sale? Loan according to BBC, with option to buy in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Loan or sale? Loan with option to buy for £9.5M, now on the beeb, pal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46998974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 His delivery is often patchy I think you are being far too generous to him here. His delivery is consistently dreadful. Never have I seen him put in a cross that looks like it might trouble the opposition defence. They're either rugby-style up and unders, or they go all the way out for a throw in on the other side. I think this might be one of the reasons behind the decision to get rid. Cedric may or may not be a solid enough defender, but his attacking threat is essentially zero, and if we're playing a wing back system we need someone who can put good balls into the box as well as defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Makes perfect sense. Also shows his confidence and desire in working with and improving players. Trim the squad, add 2/3 of quality and give an opportunity for the youngsters to step up. I wonder how many transfer windows we'll need to achieve that! So what happened to the old mantra that PL clubs need two top class players in every position to allow for injuries and rotation? Are Guardiola and Klopp wrong or the newcomer Hassenhuttl? Sounds to me like he is listening to our owners too much, small equals beautiful equals cheap equals profitable sales!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 BBC have Soares as a done deal: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46998974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 https://youtu.be/c92DlN4olYA Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Any chance of getting Clyne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 So what happened to the old mantra that PL clubs need two top class players in every position to allow for injuries and rotation? Are Guardiola and Klopp wrong or the newcomer Hassenhuttl? Sounds to me like he is listening to our owners too much, small equals beautiful equals cheap equals profitable sales!!!!!!! If I was going to pick and chose a squad that's about our level since we got promoted: McC, Gunn, Kelvin Clyne, Valery Lovren, Vest, Yoshida, Bednarek Bertrand, Targett Hojbjerg, Schneiderlin, Romeu, Lemina Redmond, Lallana, Tadic, Armstrong Lambert, Ings, J Rod I'd say that's 22 decent players who could all do a reasonable job if called up. Enough players to cover every position but not too many that people aren't getting game time. I'm leaving out the Mané and Virgil types who are obviously a class above and belong at a bigger club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 25 January, 2019 Share Posted 25 January, 2019 Any chance of getting Clyne?he went to Bournemouth with Solanke last week Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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