Yan Valery - Official: Signs for Angers

[the saint in winchester]

Am I the only one concerned about Valery's temperament?

I'm not convinced there was contact to get a penalty, so Chilwell would challenged him. After that, Valery seems to want to 'have it out with him'. Yes, the second yellow was soft, but he shouldn't have been so close to Chilwell to get caught.

Two players on red card suspensions now.

Ralph needs to calm him down.

[Saint Troy]

Am I the only one concerned about Valery's temperament?

I'm not convinced there was contact to get a penalty, so Chilwell would challenged him. After that, Valery seems to want to 'have it out with him'. Yes, the second yellow was soft, but he shouldn't have been so close to Chilwell to get caught.

Two players on red card suspensions now.

Ralph needs to calm him down.

 

Young player playing his first few games adn trying to prove himself thats all (at this stage). Its a hi energy high press system and he missed teh mark a bit. Think he got little too involved with some more experienced guys but will learn. Nothing really to see here i dont think. Hes not nasty and has made mistakes. I thought he was fine with the pen shout personally. There was contact - wasnt a pen but not a horrible dive. If you want to see a nasty dive look the other end at vardy. Could be wrong but dont think theres an issue ther ereally

[SuperSAINT]

Am I the only one concerned about Valery's temperament?

I'm not convinced there was contact to get a penalty, so Chilwell would challenged him. After that, Valery seems to want to 'have it out with him'. Yes, the second yellow was soft, but he shouldn't have been so close to Chilwell to get caught.

Two players on red card suspensions now.

Ralph needs to calm him down.

 

Probably right to be concerned after a red card that could have cost us the result. He's young & hopefully he will learn.

 

Teams will test him out in the future, no doubt.

[VectisSaint]

Am I the only one concerned about Valery's temperament?

I'm not convinced there was contact to get a penalty, so Chilwell would challenged him. After that, Valery seems to want to 'have it out with him'. Yes, the second yellow was soft, but he shouldn't have been so close to Chilwell to get caught.

Two players on red card suspensions now.

Ralph needs to calm him down.

 

Needs to learn to deal with being wound up by cheating litlle scroats like Chilwell.

[Gingeletiss]

There was contact, and ergo, a foul, it was in the penalty area, so was a penalty. If the lad played for a big team, it would of been given. Chilwell, was winding him up all game, a so called professional setting his stall out to get a young lad sent off. But hey! lets kick our player whilst he's down, seems to be the norm on here.

[S-Clarke]

He had a bit of a hot head most of that first half. He's been 'ok' for us, but has still got a lot to learn. He played like the young guy he is on Saturday.

[the saint in winchester]

Young player playing his first few games adn trying to prove himself thats all (at this stage). Its a hi energy high press system and he missed teh mark a bit. Think he got little too involved with some more experienced guys but will learn. Nothing really to see here i dont think. Hes not nasty and has made mistakes. I thought he was fine with the pen shout personally. There was contact - wasnt a pen but not a horrible dive. If you want to see a nasty dive look the other end at vardy. Could be wrong but dont think theres an issue ther ereally

 

That's the key phrase for me - that he learns from what happened.

And sure, Vardy's diving is embarrassing. Both Charlie Nicholas on Sky (watching the game) and the MOTD pundits called him out on it, and even Lineker the Leicester fan agreed it was shameful.

[angelman]

He had a bit of a hot head most of that first half. He's been 'ok' for us, but has still got a lot to learn. He played like the young guy he is on Saturday.

 

Great lesson for him. Not just on a personal level, but how his actions affected the whole team. He could have lost us a vital 3 points with his petulance. Fortunately it was win all round. Hopefully he learns a lesson. The team get a boost, esp the defence. And of course the 3 points.

[Saint Troy]

That's the key phrase for me - that he learns from what happened.

And sure, Vardy's diving is embarrassing. Both Charlie Nicholas on Sky (watching the game) and the MOTD pundits called him out on it, and even Lineker the Leicester fan agreed it was shameful.

 

but Vardy cant be penalised retrospectively because it didnt con the ref! Football is so far behind the times its unfunny.

[OttawaSaint]

There was contact, and ergo, a foul, it was in the penalty area, so was a penalty. If the lad played for a big team, it would of been given. Chilwell, was winding him up all game, a so called professional setting his stall out to get a young lad sent off. But hey! lets kick our player whilst he's down, seems to be the norm on here.

 

This. look at the challenge that got Salah a pen and look at this one. Laughable. Valery’s only mistske was to not be playing for a big club.

 

That said, he’s got to learn not to get wound up by other players.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

That's the key phrase for me - that he learns from what happened.

And sure, Vardy's diving is embarrassing. Both Charlie Nicholas on Sky (watching the game) and the MOTD pundits called him out on it, and even Lineker the Leicester fan agreed it was shameful.

 

There must be room on the law-book to punish Vardy retrospectively for that dive. It is the only cure for it. If they can ban Charlie Austin for two games why not Vardy for trying to change the outcome of a game through deceit.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Am I the only one concerned about Valery's temperament?

I'm not convinced there was contact to get a penalty, so Chilwell would challenged him. After that, Valery seems to want to 'have it out with him'. Yes, the second yellow was soft, but he shouldn't have been so close to Chilwell to get caught.

Two players on red card suspensions now.

Ralph needs to calm him down.

 

That was a penalty. It is unlikely that he would be experienced enough at 19 to be looking for penalties.

[Sheaf Saint]

That was a penalty. It is unlikely that he would be experienced enough at 19 to be looking for penalties.

 

It wasn't obvious, even on the replay, but it looked to me like there was the slightest clip of Valery's foot as well as the shoulder contact. Anybody going full pelt and caught on their standing foot is going to lose their balance and go over. So I don't think he dived, but I can also see why the officials didn't think it was worth a penalty either.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

He was subbed half way through the game with Cardiff as well after picking up an early booking and putting in some questionable tackles in afterwards (I clearly remember Austin putting an arm around him and having a word with him as they walked off at halftime telling him to relax a little). Definitely something he needs to work on but I think it's more a case of youthful exuberance and more experienced pros trying to wind him up. He'll learn to cut it out i'm sure.

[angelman]

It is interesting reading the LCFC forums on the Vardy/Valery dives. To me, Valery had his left leg tapped by Chillwell - at 57:31 on https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bz0scg/match-of-the-day-201819-12012019 - but he did make a huge mountain out of it.

 

The 2nd yellow was a bit silly, but Albrighton dived just as much. He felt a couple of hands on him (which was silly of Valery), so he threw himself to the floor.

 

Vardy - well their forums are all a little perplexed why he is being singled out and that it was no worse than Valery. Some even saying that Vester had his arm around him. It was awful. There was no contact what so ever, even if Vardy went fishing for Stephens' leg (thought it clever of him to make sure his leg was out of the way). At least Valery had his leg tapped before going into his swan dive. As has been said, many penalties have been given for what happened to Valery.

[mrfahaji]

There was contact, and ergo, a foul, it was in the penalty area, so was a penalty. If the lad played for a big team, it would of been given. Chilwell, was winding him up all game, a so called professional setting his stall out to get a young lad sent off. But hey! lets kick our player whilst he's down, seems to be the norm on here.

 

Why does contact (in a contact sport) necessarily equate to a foul? Surely it's only a foul if the contact is sufficient enough to prevent the other player continuing to play. Valery could have continued running but elected to throw himself to the ground. I cannot stand this "there was contact!" or "he's entitled to go down there" argument that seems commonplace now.

 

It was clearly a dive, because there is no way that the nature of Chilwell's contact caused that reaction from Valery, he went down as if he had been pushed/clattered rather than tripped. That doesn't excuse Vardy though, absolutely no contact and a premeditated attempt to con the referee.

 

I don't think his "leg breaker" challenge was that bad though. If you pause the replay at the right moment it looks shocking, but I don't think there are many scenarios where that challenge leads to serious injury, as Valery wasn't using a huge amount of force - and he actually gets the ball without getting Chilwell at all until he treads on his foot).

Edited 14 January, 2019 by mrfahaji

[Harry_SFC]

I think he still has a lot to learn. Not convinced he's any good going forwards at the moment (has he even put in a decent cross yet?) and seems to be a bit of a liability in terms of his temperament and struggles against pacy players. Lots of time for him to improve though.

[John Boy Saint]

Funnily enough I was listening to to the Total Saints Podcast thingamy (not something I listen to often)- Adam Leitch off the Echo said, when he spoke to him post match, Ralph was going to sub Valery at half time as he could see what Leicester were upto. Chilwell was getting very little change out of Valery, very much like Hazard wasn't v Chelsea.

He suffered the impetuousness of youth sprinkled with a little inexperience, I wouldn't be overly concerned unless it becomes a frequent thing. I certainly wouldn't be pointing the finger at the frequency of yellows, especially as you can't bet on Romeu getting a yellow anymore without adding in another match event, and Bednarek was racking them up for a few games too recently.

As for the penalty shout, there was contact foot to foot, Valery didn't get at all excited about it (like Alonso at Chelsea), he just got up and took a bit of chirp from Chilwell......... we have all seen them given for less and with Michael Oliver you have one of the better refs, who would have no qualms about awarding a second penalty of the afternoon if he felt there was an offence.

[mrfahaji]

It is interesting reading the LCFC forums on the Vardy/Valery dives. To me, Valery had his left leg tapped by Chillwell - at 57:31 on https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bz0scg/match-of-the-day-201819-12012019 - but he did make a huge mountain out of it.

 

The 2nd yellow was a bit silly, but Albrighton dived just as much. He felt a couple of hands on him (which was silly of Valery), so he threw himself to the floor.

 

Vardy - well their forums are all a little perplexed why he is being singled out and that it was no worse than Valery. Some even saying that Vester had his arm around him. It was awful. There was no contact what so ever, even if Vardy went fishing for Stephens' leg (thought it clever of him to make sure his leg was out of the way). At least Valery had his leg tapped before going into his swan dive. As has been said, many penalties have been given for what happened to Valery.

 

Scale of acceptability for 'diving':

 

1) Not possible to stay on feet (i.e. not a dive)

2) Knocked off balance and don't attempt to stay on feet even though it might be possible to carry on

3) Exaggerated but still natural reaction to a foul

4) Choosing to fall over following contact (e.g. someone pushes you, you aren't unbalanced but you fall over anyway)

5) React to some contact by throwing yourself to the ground (VALERY)

6) Trail leg to 'initiate' contact with defender when defender is not impeding

7) Falling to the ground pretending there has been contact when there hasn't been (VARDY)

 

This is just off the top of my head, maybe some people could dispute it.

 

I think (4) is the grey area between being acceptable or not (personally I only find 1 and maybe 2 acceptable, but appreciate I am being rather quixotic with that view).

[saintwbu]

Albrighton went down like a sack of **** when Valery nudged him from behind, no foul was given, and then when Valery stupidly touched him again seconds later he did exactly the same thing. Very naive from Valery, but Albrighton, Chilwell and co. wanted him sent off and they got it. He’ll learn. Getting a load more stick for two silly, provoked yellows, than Hojbjerg for having been banned for 5 games this season through stupidity.

[kitch]

This. look at the challenge that got Salah a pen and look at this one. Laughable. Valery’s only mistske was to not be playing for a big club.

 

That said, he’s got to learn not to get wound up by other players.

 

Exactly what my 9yr old said to me. There was no difference.

 

If Valery dived, then it was the best dive I've ever seen.

[angelman]

Salah had a touch on the back of the legs and kicked his legs forward and threw himself to the ground as if he'd been shot in the back. Valery had, in my mind, more lateral contact and also threw himself to the ground. Funny though how one commentator says penalty all day long, and another "going to ground". Let's face it, Chillwell's right foot kicked Valery's left ankle and if VAR was in action, it might well have been a penalty. I'm not so naive to think that it is unrelated to the stature of the players, but the whole issue around penalties and falling over to win free kicks is ruining the game. Salah is awful. A puff of wind could blow him down.

[mrfahaji]

Exactly what my 9yr old said to me. There was no difference.

 

If Valery dived, then it was the best dive I've ever seen.

 

Seriously? If you want to make the argument that Salah shouldn't have got a penalty, then fine (I haven't seen it). But I can't believe anyone would think that Valery went down in a natural way from that challenge.

 

The best dive I have ever seen was Jay Rodriguez away at Villa. Earned us a crucial win, I didn't like winning in that manner, but I was massively impressed with how convincing his dive was.

[John Boy Saint]

Seriously? If you want to make the argument that Salah shouldn't have got a penalty, then fine (I haven't seen it). But I can't believe anyone would think that Valery went down in a natural way from that challenge.

 

The best dive I have ever seen was Jay Rodriguez away at Villa. Earned us a crucial win, I didn't like winning in that manner, but I was massively impressed with how convincing his dive was.

Surely it has to be Fonte falling over Brighton players leg 6 feet outside the penalty box in front of the Lino, Ref pointed straight to the spot, and sent off a Brighton player for disputing the penalty too vigorously.

[hasper57saint]

Am I the only one concerned about Valery's temperament?

I'm not convinced there was contact to get a penalty, so Chilwell would challenged him. After that, Valery seems to want to 'have it out with him'. Yes, the second yellow was soft, but he shouldn't have been so close to Chilwell to get caught.

Two players on red card suspensions now.

Ralph needs to calm him down.

 

Some of the more experienced WUM Leicester players wound him up from the off.The lad stood his ground well unto one taunt too many created a response.Second yellow wasn't in my opinion.More seriously,how did Vardy get away with his dive?

[darren2]

There was more contact in the non penalty than in the second yellow. They were out to get him, he'll learn.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Surely it has to be Fonte falling over Brighton players leg 6 feet outside the penalty box in front of the Lino, Ref pointed straight to the spot, and sent off a Brighton player for disputing the penalty too vigorously.

 

I am going to go for Kevin Phillips against Wolves.

[mrfahaji]

Some of the more experienced WUM Leicester players wound him up from the off.The lad stood his ground well unto one taunt too many created a response.Second yellow wasn't in my opinion.More seriously,how did Vardy get away with his dive?

 

I think the problem with the second yellow was that he had already tried to pull him back once, it was in an attacking position and right in front of the referee. It might have been a soft 'challenge', but I can see why he was given a second booking for those circumstances.

[OttawaSaint]

I think the problem with the second yellow was that he had already tried to pull him back once, it was in an attacking position and right in front of the referee. It might have been a soft 'challenge', but I can see why he was given a second booking for those circumstances.

 

In that circumstance the ref maybe should have recognized that he is a young lad and had a chat giving him a final warning. Look at the atrocious fouls that Kompany got away with vs Saints and Liverpool.

[mrfahaji]

In that circumstance the ref maybe should have recognized that he is a young lad and had a chat giving him a final warning. Look at the atrocious fouls that Kompany got away with vs Saints and Liverpool.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the decision, just that I can see how it unfolded that way.

[OttawaSaint]

I'm not saying I agree with the decision, just that I can see how it unfolded that way.

 

Yeah, sorry, wasn't arguing with you. Just wanted to use your post to tag on my thoughts. It's like refs get it the wrong way around. Give leeway to an experienced player who should know better, but punish a young player who is still learning in the EPL.

[derry]

Seriously? If you want to make the argument that Salah shouldn't have got a penalty, then fine (I haven't seen it). But I can't believe anyone would think that Valery went down in a natural way from that challenge.

 

The best dive I have ever seen was Jay Rodriguez away at Villa. Earned us a crucial win, I didn't like winning in that manner, but I was massively impressed with how convincing his dive was.

 

Has to be El Hadj Diouf for Stoke, did the old catch the toe on the heel of the other foot and go flying. Caught out in slow motion but in real time looked like he'd been tripped.

[mrfahaji]

Yeah, sorry, wasn't arguing with you. Just wanted to use your post to tag on my thoughts. It's like refs get it the wrong way around. Give leeway to an experienced player who should know better, but punish a young player who is still learning in the EPL.

 

True. I know it shouldn’t make a difference, but perhaps Oliver should have considered there was a minute till HT too. His pull back was a bit silly but it wasn’t dangerous play. The crowd was baying for blood, I’m surprised a decent red like Oliver was so easily swayed.

[Manuel]

Thought he lacked quality today in the first half. Too easy for Everton to get the ball across. Going forward offers very little.

 

Didn't get to see the second half though. Was he any better?

[austsaint]

Thought he lacked quality today in the first half. Too easy for Everton to get the ball across. Going forward offers very little.

 

Didn't get to see the second half though. Was he any better?

 

He wasn't any better. Hard to criticise Ralph - and of course Valery has time on his side but thus far he is not convincing and at times is being covered by Stevens and Bednarek. Thought he was the only weak area today.

[washsaint]

He was excellent today. Everton did not have any joy down the right hand side at all - they had no shots in the first half at all.

 

He got forward well, was tenacious and none of the hot headedness that we have seen previously.

 

Like Targett, the more game time he has the more he is improving.

[Crab Lungs]

He’ll have some more game time this year, will bulk up over the summer and we’ll see a more assured version next year I reckon.

 

Obviously raw, but he does have a lot of potential. I think it’s important we give him time and allow for mistakes - he’s still so young.

[striker]

Am I the only one who is nervous with him out there. He's very raw and seems a little out of control sometimes. Players learn composure over time. I know may don't like Cedric here, but I like him over Valery right now.

[Baird of the land]

Definitely prefer Valery over Cedric.

[beatlesaint]

He’s coming along nicely, improving every game

[saintwbu]

I like him. He's marked Hazard, Chilwell and Richarlison in his last three appearances and none of them have got a thing out of him, so much so that Chilwell got him in a chokehold last week because he rattled him so much. He's not amazing, he lacks confidence going forward, but hopefully that will come. When we were 2-0 up he looked a lot more confident with a few flicks and nice passes. Strong in the tackle, bit feisty, good in the air and fairly quick. Has a lot to work with, and a great manager to do it.

[LeBizzier69]

Surprised that he looks like he might have some pace, but doesn’t really at all. Maybe he’s not got the confidence yet to pin his ears back. He’s done well for a young lad coming into to PL football, but he’s not been a stand out performer. IMO anyway.

[kelkel31]

He is certainly not embarrassing himself on the pitch and its probably doing his development a great deal of good but overall he isnt yet ready to be a regular starter. He is just too raw and that is no fault of his own and he certainly doesnt deserve any form of criticism he just seems to play with a mixture of playing too safe and lacking confidence to just let himself play to then going into a challenge like a headless chicken :-)

 

One for the future but i would say if there is a weakness to our game in the last month or 2 it is that we have 2 wing backs that either dont suit our new style of play or are at least now not up to the required standard.

[Ed Rooney]

Think he has looked decent to be fair

[sfc4prem]

Just reading some of the comments - opinions on the lad seem very polarized!!

 

An encouraging start being thrown into the deep end against top PL clubs. He's a good prospect, certainly.

[Chez]

Improving with every game, but the five man defence hides frailties. Hard to know if he, Bednerek, Targett and Vestergaard are good enough to hold there own against better quality in a four man defence. Really hope Valery has what it takes.

[Pamplemousse]

He's so much better than Cedric. The bar is set low but it's an improvement nevertheless, and a much-needed one.

[Useful Idiot]

I think he looks like a decent defender who will get better with experience. He's also very good in the air for a full back and seems pretty strong. Sometimes he's slightly naive and gets caught the wrong side of a player, but it's only happened a couple of times (although both of the occasions I've noticed it happening have led to bookings). I think he's learning quickly and hopefully won't get caught out like that in the future.

 

He doesn't look particularly good going forward so far. His crossing in particular seems more hit and hope than anything else and he doesn't seem to have a great change of pace with the ball at his feet. Hopefully this aspect of his game will improve as he gets more experience playing for the first team.

[ericofarabia]

Am I the only one who is nervous with him out there. He's very raw and seems a little out of control sometimes. Players learn composure over time. I know may don't like Cedric here, but I like him over Valery right now.

 

One of my mates put 75 quid on him getting booked ....... typically he avoided doing anything stupid.

We were praying for him to score and get booked for taking his shirt off celebrating, or even just plain time wasting in the painful added on time ...but alas it was not to be!!

[Gingeletiss]

I'm not sure what some of you expect? Were you all great in your chosen field, at 18, I doubt it. He is a nipper, and in my humble opinion, he will be a very good player. Watched the whole match over here in Oz, and he looked very composed, and is growing in stature every game.