What do we want and how do we achieve it?

[stevegrant]

Steve you are wrong this was put to Lowe and Wilde in writing at least a month ago and a copy sent to the bank !!

If the bank were aware of it "at least a month ago", why haven't they appeared to have been putting any sort of pressure on the board to accept (or at least negotiate!) the offer?

[JohnnyFartPants]

We need to buy a female goat and then borrow a male to breed from. When the first goat is born, sell it for £50. Use this £50 to invest in a male goat of our own and breed from it. Sell the next goat for another £50. If we keep doing this, while also keeping a goat for ourselves, then I anticipate that by the year 2025 we could have as many as 35 goats and £2000 in the bank. I haven't done any workings to include goat food or vets bills so could do with some help on this.

 

Let me know if you think Barclays will take this on board as a possible way forward to secure the stadium etc.

[fos1]

If the bank were aware of it "at least a month ago", why haven't they appeared to have been putting any sort of pressure on the board to accept (or at least negotiate!) the offer?

 

Steve who knows that they have not put pressure on Lowe and Wilde to negotiate !!

[Frank's cousin]

So Frank what you are saying it is now all Crouch's fault because Lowe and Wilde won't put money on. It is this myopic irrational defence of Lowe that frustrates people on here and it appears at SMS on Saturday.

 

Jeez mate. Crouch offers two million on condition Wilde and Lowe do too. Sounds fair to me. Wilde and Lowe won't or can't and FC then slags off Crouch. You could not make it up.

No wonder fans are at each other's throats.

 

Come on FF you are misinterpreting this.... YOU KNOW, I KNOW and CROUCH KNOWS that neither Wilde or Lowe had or have that kind of cash sitting around either when he first made the offer or now. That is pretty much a certainty.... so why did Crouch make this offer with conditions that are impossible to be met? please enlighten me as to how that can be considered such a generous offer? This argument goes all ways by the way, had it come from ANY of teh three amigos, my response WOULD have been the same.

 

'Myopic defence of Lowe' Jeez, I thought you were above that kinda of sh!t. If someone wants to make milage out of Crouch's 'generosity' , I dont see how putting this in context is anything to do with defending anyone else, surely its about balance.

Edited 19 January, 2009 by Frank's cousin

[Fitzhugh Fella]

That merely emphasises the point, to be honest. He knows Lowe and Wilde won't be able/willing to match it, so whether it's in writing or not, it's still pretty empty, in my opinion. The knowledge (or, more importantly, the release of the knowledge into the public domain) that the offer has been made gives him a moral standing, but it would be very interesting if they were to call his bluff on it, although I wouldn't expect either of them to take that risk as I don't think they could afford to do so.

 

Then shouldn't you save your criticism for the two men who are not willing to put in two million and not at the one who is.

[slickmick]

That merely emphasises the point, to be honest. He knows Lowe and Wilde won't be able/willing to match it, so whether it's in writing or not, it's still pretty empty, in my opinion. The knowledge (or, more importantly, the release of the knowledge into the public domain) that the offer has been made gives him a moral standing, but it would be very interesting if they were to call his bluff on it, although I wouldn't expect either of them to take that risk as I don't think they could afford to do so.

 

 

If they did, I wonder what kind of reaction they would get with the fans ?

[ottery st mary]

We need to buy a female goat and then borrow a male to breed from. When the first goat is born, sell it for £50. Use this £50 to invest in a male goat of our own and breed from it. Sell the next goat for another £50. If we keep doing this, while also keeping a goat for ourselves, then I anticipate that by the year 2025 we could have as many as 35 goats and £2000 in the bank. I haven't done any workings to include goat food or vets bills so could do with some help on this.

 

Let me know if you think Barclays will take this on board as a possible way forward to secure the stadium etc.

 

Did I miss this plan or am I right in thinking, this is The Lowey Dutch total football plan, with the goats being our young academy sales object.

[NickG]

Let’s look at this from a logical viewpoint. We want Lowe and Wilde out of SMS and SLH. That is the mission statement but is it enough. We need to make sure someone competent can come in and run the club, not for a while until the mythical investor turns up but for the next 5 years.

 

Ridding Lowe of attending matches is not enough. We need to see the back of him permanently.

 

So how do we achieve it lawfully? We have to marginalise his support but how? Wilde will be a good start but so far he has not shifted as he is worried about losing his money. Quite honestly Lowe is doing a pretty good job at marginalising his own support through his actions to date and even that has been ineffective. What can we achieve?

 

Once he has been marginalised, what next? We need a plan for someone to come in knowing there is no money in the pot with a struggling side and coaches that are just not up to the job. Who is capable of this and drive us forward with a business plan for the next 5 years?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a way.

 

First find a consortium of business men who have a passion for Saints. Say Salz, Davies and others who I will not name as I have promised confidentiality. Then find a football CEO to bind it all together.

 

Ask them to put together a business plan for the next 3 or 5 years to save the club and take it forward.

 

Once you have that you need to review the shareholders list and write to all shareholders setting out the plan and asked for pledged support.

 

If you are lucky to get enough support you then get the consortium to go to the financial institutions including Aviva for support of the plan and showing the shareholder support.

 

Just may be Wilde and some of the others who support Lowe at present will see that alternative and break ranks.

 

Once you have a pledge for 50% or more, you approach the board and ask them to resign. If they do not you call for an EGM.

 

Once Lowe has gone the rebuilding can take place but it will not happen tomorrow. It needs time

 

Anyone got a better idea?

 

seems reasonable, would be interesting for the echo to approach the usual names and ask for comment on current situation and what they are prepared to do, including LC

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Come on FF you are misinterpreting this.... YOU KNOW' date=' I KNOW and CROUCH KNOWS that neither Wilde or Lowe had or have that kind of cash sitting around either when he first made the offer or now. That is pretty much a certainty.... so why did Crouch make this offer with conditions that are impossible to be met? please enlighten me as to how that can be considered such a generous offer? This argument goes all ways by the way, had it come from ANY of teh three amigos, my response WOULD have been the same.[/quote']

 

Well, I am not privy to Rupert Lowe's or Michael Wilde's bank account details, Frank and neither are you or Leon Crouch, I would hazard a guess. Its more a case of them not being willing. But either way if they cannot inject any funds they should give way to someone who will. Simplistic argument maybe but prattling on like this is not actually moving things on.

[Frank's cousin]

Then shouldn't you save your criticism for the two men who are not willing to put in two million and not at the one who is.

 

Would you not agree that there is a difference between 'willing' and 'being unable' ? if interchanged at random is this just not propoganda?

 

Lowe can dissapear yup his own arse for all I care and take wilde with him, but that does not mean it makes Crouch's 'generosity' any more valid than teh bull**** of 'investment' spouted by Wilde, or that 'total football' would be a success spouted by Lowe.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Let’s look at this from a logical viewpoint. We want Lowe and Wilde out of SMS and SLH. That is the mission statement but is it enough. We need to make sure someone competent can come in and run the club, not for a while until the mythical investor turns up but for the next 5 years.

 

Ridding Lowe of attending matches is not enough. We need to see the back of him permanently.

 

So how do we achieve it lawfully? We have to marginalise his support but how? Wilde will be a good start but so far he has not shifted as he is worried about losing his money. Quite honestly Lowe is doing a pretty good job at marginalising his own support through his actions to date and even that has been ineffective. What can we achieve?

 

Once he has been marginalised, what next? We need a plan for someone to come in knowing there is no money in the pot with a struggling side and coaches that are just not up to the job. Who is capable of this and drive us forward with a business plan for the next 5 years?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a way.

 

First find a consortium of business men who have a passion for Saints. Say Salz, Davies and others who I will not name as I have promised confidentiality. Then find a football CEO to bind it all together.

 

Ask them to put together a business plan for the next 3 or 5 years to save the club and take it forward.

 

Once you have that you need to review the shareholders list and write to all shareholders setting out the plan and asked for pledged support.

 

If you are lucky to get enough support you then get the consortium to go to the financial institutions including Aviva for support of the plan and showing the shareholder support.

 

Just may be Wilde and some of the others who support Lowe at present will see that alternative and break ranks.

 

Once you have a pledge for 50% or more, you approach the board and ask them to resign. If they do not you call for an EGM.

 

Once Lowe has gone the rebuilding can take place but it will not happen tomorrow. It needs time

 

Anyone got a better idea?

 

 

Ron, I happen to know someone who is working behind the scenes to organise something very akin to your outline above. But like someone has said, it takes time and money which I know he is prepared to put in. When he launches his plan it will be up to all of us to help as much as we can. Work on the website etc etc is being done as we speak/shout.

[Frank's cousin]

Well, I am not privy to Rupert Lowe's or Michael Wilde's bank account details, Frank and neither are you or Leon Crouch, I would hazard a guess. Its more a case of them not being willing. But either way if they cannot inject any funds they should give way to someone who will. Simplistic argument maybe but prattling on like this is not actually moving things on.

 

Call it what you will Duncan, 'pratting on' if you like, support who you like and good luck to you, but these kinda of empty promises, innuendo and cheap point scoring based on fantasy of mysterious players waiting in the wings is the same **** we heard before...just be careful thats all.

[slickmick]

If Lowe and Wilde cant cough up £2m then fair enough. Maybe they could suggest a figure they could afford.

[slickmick]

Ron, I happen to know someone who is working behind the scenes to organise something very akin to your outline above. But like someone has said, it takes time and money which I know he is prepared to put in. When he launches his plan it will be up to all of us to help as much as we can. Work on the website etc etc is being done as we speak/shout.

 

 

That could be a problem. As we no from experience, removing Lowe will not get the fans flooding back.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Call it what you will Duncan' date=' 'pratting on' if you like, support who you like and good luck to you, but these kinda of empty promises, innuendo and cheap point scoring based on fantasy of mysterious players waiting in the wings is the same **** we heard before...just be careful thats all.[/quote']

 

Frank the person I am alluding to is not a mysterious player waiting in the wings or a maker of empty promises, he posts on here and is fed up listening to all the posturing and sermonising (most of it coming from you recently) and he has got off his arse to do something. He also hates Lowe. I will help him to the best of my abilities - no doubt you will too.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

That could be a problem. As we no from experience, removing Lowe will not get the fans flooding back.

 

 

Yes loads of problems no doubt about that, but at least someone is trying to do something which gets my vote.

[NickG]

we just need some light, at the end of this tunnel.

 

as I said in thread re time for change, it needs something that can get a bit of positivity, with players we have (albeit not world beaters) we can do better. need something to give confidence to fans and players.

[NickG]

Yes loads of problems no doubt about that, but at least someone is trying to do something which gets my vote.

 

will be interested to hear more

[fos1]

Well, I am not privy to Rupert Lowe's or Michael Wilde's bank account details, Frank and neither are you or Leon Crouch, I would hazard a guess. Its more a case of them not being willing. But either way if they cannot inject any funds they should give way to someone who will. Simplistic argument maybe but prattling on like this is not actually moving things on.

 

Spot on, give way move aside let Crouch back in even if short term, get the Dutch idiot out English manager in, couple of decent loan signings bring one of our strikers back ! fans get behind the team and lets see if we can survive all for 2million !!!!

[stevegrant]

Then shouldn't you save your criticism for the two men who are not willing to put in two million and not at the one who is.

No, my criticism is reserved for the three of them in equal measures. Their behaviour, both publicly and privately, in the last few years has been an embarrassment and a disgrace, and I cannot wait for the day when all three of them cease to have any involvement with SFC.

 

Steve who knows that they have not put pressure on Lowe and Wilde to negotiate !!

I think we're all in agreement that the bank basically call all the shots right now. If they were aware of this offer and wished for it to be pushed through, either in the form that it originally took or with acceptable modifications, they'd have done it at the earliest opportunity. The sooner their risk reduces, the happier they become and the fewer leashes they need to wrap around the club's neck. They must have their reasons for not having done so, if it was Lowe and/or Wilde putting blocks on it, they'd have just taken the situation out of their hands by whatever means possible.

[up and away]

I think Ron's post is one that displays a great deal of common sense and its refreshing to see it ... aftearll there are plenty of time son here when all we see are the cries of LOwe out, without any suggestion of how togo about it. Sorry but protest will not work. I would however include Crouch in the list. Why? Because if we really want/need a new 'era' we need to make a brake from the past - its why I was never for LM or M Corbet etc being involved... In the stampead to appease fans and please us all with the rhetoric of past glories returning, as we saw with crouch last time, the eye was of the ball and we failed to do what was necessary at the time no matter how hard the decision.

 

There is without doubt a need for a clean break. I dont like the idea that of various numpties who believe all the crap written in their ignorance enjoying the schardenfreude, but its clear that the only way out of the mess is change. How this is achieved REALISTICALLY, and without further damage, I really dont know. I cant see an answer that is viable as no one is likely to step forward during this financial climate.

 

In reality we were fooked come the end of last season when factoring in all the players we would lose. Things are very bad at the present time but it is not unexpected. As for those clamouring for Salz involvement, exactly how did he help when he was working behind the scenes before? There is one simple answer, someone with money and I don't mean "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours" Crouch. I keep thinking that we should be no worse off than Leeds, but without someone like Ken Bates I am not so sure.

 

We are now just reaping everything that we have sown in the past. If you could not see it then and bother doing anything about it when it mattered. We just have to suck up and take it, irrespective of who is in the boardroom. I don't care if Lowe goes or stays as I can't see anyone being able to do anything at this stage without real money. But anyone who thinks all will be well with the idiots that got us into this mess in the first place is delusional. We have had the party, ****ed it all up and now we have to pay the bill.

[Rob the Saint]

Rob, please tell me who is going to finance a 28 mil loan at a 'reasonable' rate of interest in this current cliamte for a division 1 club with no guarranteed revenue stream and figures showing declining revenues as fans desert the sinking ship because we cant cope whn it gets tough?

 

The current rate must be below 5% - sure you can get better deals if you have good equity, byut teh stadium is worth feck all on its own so is no collateral so any loans against are in the 'risky' part of the equation. Administration is likely to se ethis loan called in - everything and anything worth more than a penny would be sold to satify these creditors. There would be no ashes, from which to rise - think Oxford United.

 

 

 

Administration woudl be a diaster and should be avoided at all cost

 

 

Frank, agree this difficult to refinance, but it is in the bank's interest (no pun intended) to get some return for their stadium . (Should have referred you to my earlier post in which I also mentioned the new club could lease the stadium. )

[derry]

Let’s look at this from a logical viewpoint. We want Lowe and Wilde out of SMS and SLH. That is the mission statement but is it enough. We need to make sure someone competent can come in and run the club, not for a while until the mythical investor turns up but for the next 5 years.

 

Ridding Lowe of attending matches is not enough. We need to see the back of him permanently.

 

So how do we achieve it lawfully? We have to marginalise his support but how? Wilde will be a good start but so far he has not shifted as he is worried about losing his money. Quite honestly Lowe is doing a pretty good job at marginalising his own support through his actions to date and even that has been ineffective. What can we achieve?

 

Once he has been marginalised, what next? We need a plan for someone to come in knowing there is no money in the pot with a struggling side and coaches that are just not up to the job. Who is capable of this and drive us forward with a business plan for the next 5 years?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a way.

 

First find a consortium of business men who have a passion for Saints. Say Salz, Davies and others who I will not name as I have promised confidentiality. Then find a football CEO to bind it all together.

 

Ask them to put together a business plan for the next 3 or 5 years to save the club and take it forward.

 

Once you have that you need to review the shareholders list and write to all shareholders setting out the plan and asked for pledged support.

 

If you are lucky to get enough support you then get the consortium to go to the financial institutions including Aviva for support of the plan and showing the shareholder support.

 

Just may be Wilde and some of the others who support Lowe at present will see that alternative and break ranks.

 

Once you have a pledge for 50% or more, you approach the board and ask them to resign. If they do not you call for an EGM.

 

Once Lowe has gone the rebuilding can take place but it will not happen tomorrow. It needs time

 

Anyone got a better idea?

 

 

Ron, my views entirely, I have posted a similar view here this week, I think that initially a start would be a referendum guaranteed association for the 55% of the shareholders not in the Lowe/Wilde axis. High profile figures of integrity would be needed to give it credence.

 

If those shareholders not in the axis could be persuaded en mass to proxy their votes Lowe could be unseated.

 

However as a bystander I see the trust as a body which is tainted/discredited and lacks the necessary drive, will and credibility to do this job.

[Frank's cousin]

Frank the person I am alluding to is not a mysterious player waiting in the wings or a maker of empty promises, he posts on here and is fed up listening to all the posturing and sermonising (most of it coming from you recently) and he has got off his arse to do something. He also hates Lowe. I will help him to the best of my abilities - no doubt you will too.

 

Duncan, I will support whoever comes forward with a solid plan, short term and long term to save saints from Admin and propose a brighter unified future, of that there is absolutely no doubt and I think I would be right in saying there is no siants who would not wish to do the same.

 

However, posturising and surmonising? ...and there was me thinking this was a fan forum for us to express our views and opinions? What you have in effect alluded to above is sensorship.. as my two bit ramblings have some sort of negative effect on the discisions made by those highly placed ready to get moving? As my they might 'give up' because of one or two suromising fans? Sorry that is just plain daft.

 

All I have ever tried to do is encourage some fans to get away from the unsubstantiated, the crap and ignorance that is so often bandied about - and share MHO that there is merit to some of teh things teh club has achieved in teh past and logic to some of the ideas - even if they failed in their implementation?

 

If thats enough to scare your pals off... well sorry but how serious are they? Good grief man, I am one fan posting my thoughts on a FANS web forum FFS, it means nothing, and yet what you are suggesting;

 

 

I will help him to the best of my abilities - no doubt you will too.

 

 

seems a lot like silencing any voice of opposition to me.... will we al be banned from SMS as well if they are successful? Will there be a witch hunt against those that even merely hinted that Lowe might have made a good decision , just ones in his life? I think we should be told, they sound a very sinister bunch to me? ;-)

 

Maybe they will place one of those brain drain machines in the Itchen concourse - Where is Harry Palmer when you need him? ;-)

 

PS. If this poster/mystery man is 'fed up' of 'listening' as you say - does this bode well for his relationship with fans? Unity is only ever possible by accepting others opinions and their right to express them.

Edited 19 January, 2009 by Frank's cousin

[trousers]

Ron, I happen to know someone who is working behind the scenes to organise something very akin to your outline above. But like someone has said, it takes time and money which I know he is prepared to put in. When he launches his plan it will be up to all of us to help as much as we can. Work on the website etc etc is being done as we speak/shout.

 

I'm nearly done. Should be better than my previous efforts. (NAMG and Asturius)

 

[slickmick]

Yes loads of problems no doubt about that, but at least someone is trying to do something which gets my vote.

 

 

Mine too.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Duncan, I will support whoever comes forward with a solid plan, short term and long term to save saints from Admin and propose a brighter unified future, of that there is absolutely no doubt and I think I would be right in saying there is no siants who would not wish to do the same.

 

However, posturising and surmonising? ...and there was me thinking this was a fan forum for us to express our views and opinions? What you have in effect alluded to above is sensorship.. as my two bit ramblings have some sort of negative effect on the discisions made by those highly placed ready to get moving? As my they might 'give up' because of one or two suromising fans? Sorry that is just plain daft.

 

All I have ever tried to do is encourage some fans to get away from the unsubstantiated, the crap and ignorance that is so often bandied about - and share MHO that there is merit to some of teh things teh club has achieved in teh past and logic to some of the ideas - even if they failed in their implementation?

 

If thats enough to scare your pals off... well sorry but how serious are they? Good grief man, I am one fan posting my thoughts on a FANS web forum FFS, it means nothing, and yet what you are suggesting;

 

 

 

 

 

seems a lot like silencing any voice of opposition to me.... will we al be banned from SMS as well if they are successful? Will there be a witch hunt against those that even merely hinted that Lowe might have made a good decision , just ones in his life? I think we should be told, they sound a very sinister bunch to me? ;-)

 

Maybe they will place one of those brain drain machines in the Itchen concourse - Where is Harry Palmer when you need him? ;-)

 

PS. If this poster/mystery man is 'fed up' of 'listening' as you say - does this bode well for his relationship with fans? Unity is only ever possible by accepting others opinions and their right to express them.

 

Ah ha from your last sentences - seems like you are already getting ready to write this bloke and his ideas off already. This guy is not mounting a takeover ffs just coming up with an idea that regains control of our club, lets wait and see what he has to offer before criticising him.

[Frank's cousin]

Ah ha from your last sentences - seems like you are already getting ready to write this bloke and his ideas off already. This guy is not mounting a takeover ffs just coming up with an idea that regains control of our club, lets wait and see what he has to offer before criticising him.

 

Sorry, I cant write anyone one off as I have no idea what they are purposing, I have no idea what they are suggesting and no idea as to what strategy they are likely to adopt. I think its fair to expect that this should amount to a darn sight more that simply ridding the club of Lowe and Wilde?

 

We saw that last time and it got us no where, just created division and created further ingrained bittereness in those shareholders marginalised as a result... thats not a plan for success, its plan to oust encumbants and as we have seen simply ensures that we continue to have powerful voices on the outside ****ing in..... But I would welcome a strategy from whatever source that looks to stabalise the finances and build...

 

But i stand by what was said about the 'fed up' bit> FFS Duncan is that really what he said? Because last time I looked this was a FANS site where we are all free to express our views and opinions.

 

Wilde let us down, Lowe let us down (on more than one occasion), Crouch let us down. Things need to change, but that does not mean we should be silent an unquestioning of whoever is set to mount a challenge.

[Mole]

Crouch let us down.

 

No he didn't.

[Wade Garrett]

Frank, what is your agenda? You slag off Crouch for offering £2million to the club, and now you have a go at a mystery person who is trying to mend things behind the scenes because he says he is 'fed up' of 'listening. Ridiculous.

 

On a separate note, the Saints Trust have been a complete waste of time in all of this. Nick Illingsworth spends a lot of his time on his website defending Lowe. It has become a joke.

 

We needed an orchestrated campaign to stop all this in the first place (remember the Branfoot protests), but all we got was Nick cosying up to the new chairman because it makes him feel important.

 

The Saints Trust may as well disband. It has become discredited in my eyes.

[Mole]

Frank, what is your agenda? You slag off Crouch for offering £2million to the club, and now you have a go at a mystery person who is trying to mend things behind the scenes because he says he is 'fed up' of 'listening. Ridiculous.

 

On a separate note, the Saints Trust have been a complete waste of time in all of this. Nick Illingsworth spends a lot of his time on his website defending Lowe. It has become a joke.

 

We needed an orchestrated campaign to stop all this in the first place (remember the Branfoot protests), but all we got was Nick cosying up to the new chairman because it makes him feel important.

 

The Saints Trust may as well disband. It has become discredited in my eyes.

 

The Saints Trust under Nick Illingsworth should be avoided like the plague for the reasons you have given.

 

On their site it states the board is comprised of:

 

Chairman - Nick Illingsworth

 

Vice-Chairman - Steve Grant

 

Secretary - Bert Curtis

 

Treasurer - James Barnard

 

Membership Secretary - James Jablonski

 

Stephen Godwin

 

Richard Bennett

 

Robin Howard

 

Chris Brown

 

Alan Ediss

 

Paul Radley

 

Is this list how it is, or is it as accurate as the 838 members they claim to have?

[Frank's cousin]

Frank, what is your agenda? You slag off Crouch for offering £2million to the club, and now you have a go at a mystery person who is trying to mend things behind the scenes because he says he is 'fed up' of 'listening. Ridiculous.

 

On a separate note, the Saints Trust have been a complete waste of time in all of this. Nick Illingsworth spends a lot of his time on his website defending Lowe. It has become a joke.

 

We needed an orchestrated campaign to stop all this in the first place (remember the Branfoot protests), but all we got was Nick cosying up to the new chairman because it makes him feel important.

 

The Saints Trust may as well disband. It has become discredited in my eyes.

 

Jeez... I have NO agenda, I want change as much as the next man as its clear we cant go forward as we are. I am merely suggesting that Crouch's offer is not as clear cut as he would like to suggest as I do believe he knows both Lowe nad Wile have not got a spare 2 mil burning a hole in their pocket. And there is a big difference between being unwilling to inject cash and being unable to... that is all.

 

Second, I have no idea who this mystery person is, I have no idea as to whether they would be fantastic (which would be hoped ) or rubbish, I know nothing, but FF stated that this person was 'fed up' with somes fans 'surmonizing' etc... Well sorry, to me that is plain wrong... this is a fan forum , no more no less, where ALL opinion should be welcome and respected.

[Frank's cousin]

The Saints Trust under Nick Illingsworth should be avoided like the plague for the reasons you have given.

 

On their site it states the board is comprised of:

 

Chairman - Nick Illingsworth

 

Vice-Chairman - Steve Grant

 

Secretary - Bert Curtis

 

Treasurer - James Barnard

 

Membership Secretary - James Jablonski

 

Stephen Godwin

 

Richard Bennett

 

Robin Howard

 

Chris Brown

 

Alan Ediss

 

Paul Radley

 

Is this list how it is, or is it as accurate as the 838 members they claim to have?

 

See this is what I am on about - The trust, Nick Steve whoever are doing what they believ is right. I dont agree with alot of what they are doing nor do I agree with alot of their opinion, but its their right to have those opinions and share them on here and elsewhere. You have to respect that even if you dont agree FFS

[Wade Garrett]

Jeez... I have NO agenda, I want change as much as the next man as its clear we cant go forward as we are. I am merely suggesting that Crouch's offer is not as clear cut as he would like to suggest as I do believe he knows both Lowe nad Wile have not got a spare 2 mil burning a hole in their pocket. And there is a big difference between being unwilling to inject cash and being unable to... that is all.

 

Second, I have no idea who this mystery person is, I have no idea as to whether they would be fantastic (which would be hoped ) or rubbish, I know nothing, but FF stated that this person was 'fed up' with somes fans 'surmonizing' etc... Well sorry, to me that is plain wrong... this is a fan forum , no more no less, where ALL opinion should be welcome and respected.

 

Leave it out Frank.

[Frank's cousin]

Leave it out Frank.

 

Why? Trying to prevent alternative opinion is not going to change folks minds. If you accuse me of something, surely you expect a response?

[stevegrant]

Is this list how it is, or is it as accurate as the 838 members they claim to have?

Out of date by at least a year. I've not been involved for a year, Steve Godwin is the same.

[Wade Garrett]

Why? Trying to prevent alternative opinion is not going to change folks minds. If you accuse me of something' date=' surely you expect a response?[/quote']

 

You take all this a bit too seriously. You are a bit of a hypocrite who moans when people disagree with you, but you don't mind dishing it out.

 

No offence, but you've just made it onto my ignore list.

[derry]

Out of date by at least a year. I've not been involved for a year, Steve Godwin is the same.

 

Well that just says it all about the viability and proactiveness of the trust, it's website is over a year out of date. Time to bin it, although I suppose it has effectvely binned itself.

[Frank's cousin]

You take all this a bit too seriously. You are a bit of a hypocrite who moans when people disagree with you, but you don't mind dishing it out.

 

No offence, but you've just made it onto my ignore list.

 

Like thats a problem for me....jeez and I am accuse dof taking it all too seriously....

[The Rover]

I reckon I know who the mystery person is.

 

If I'm right he's a decent person and the self styled "most optimistic Saints fan there is" but I don't see him having the financial clout to do much about our situation.

 

Sorry but I'm through with false dawns. We ain't going to solve this one with positive thinking.

[saintwarwick]

The Saints Trust under Nick Illingsworth should be avoided like the plague for the reasons you have given.

 

On their site it states the board is comprised of:

 

Chairman - Nick Illingsworth

 

Vice-Chairman - Steve Grant

 

Secretary - Bert Curtis

 

Treasurer - James Barnard

 

Membership Secretary - James Jablonski

 

Stephen Godwin

 

Richard Bennett

 

Robin Howard

 

Chris Brown

 

Alan Ediss

 

Paul Radley

 

Is this list how it is, or is it as accurate as the 838 members they claim to have?

 

I think the trust is a good idea, it just needs someone with experience and drive to move it forward.

[slickmick]

I reckon I know who the mystery person is.

 

If I'm right he's a decent person and the self styled "most optimistic Saints fan there is" but I don't see him having the financial clout to do much about our situation.

 

Sorry but I'm through with false dawns. We ain't going to solve this one with positive thinking.

 

 

Your wrong, its not me.

[hypochondriac]

I reckon I know who the mystery person is.

 

If I'm right he's a decent person and the self styled "most optimistic Saints fan there is" but I don't see him having the financial clout to do much about our situation.

 

Sorry but I'm through with false dawns. We ain't going to solve this one with positive thinking.

 

At least he's doing something and actively looking and encouraging others to do the same. Besides, have you not thought that there could be a method in his madness and that there is a reason for positivity?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Like thats a problem for me....jeez and I am accuse dof taking it all too seriously....

 

Frank I don't want to escalate this - of course your opinion is welcome and legitimate, its just that there are times your posts do tend to lecture, sermonise or whatever the correct word is. I am sure we all do it to a degree because it is a way of persuading others to come round to our viewpoints but if you could read your some of your posts as an outsider you would probably see what I am saying.

 

You have no idea of Crouch's precise motives in offering the £2m and yet you are prepared to criticise from what appears to be your chosen moral highground.

[stevegrant]

I think the trust is a good idea, it just needs someone with experience and drive to move it forward.

It also needs a receptive audience. Unfortunately, while a lot of fans will agree with most of the voted-on policies of the Trust, most of them will also use the one policy - whatever it may be - they don't agree with to beat it with and refuse to join or get involved solely because of that.

 

It would be nigh-on impossible to have a series of policies that every single supporter agreed on, and for some reason there seems to be a complete lack of any willing on the part of anybody to compromise.

[gordonToo]

Maybe it's time for a Board of Last Ditch Unity with Crouch, Lowe and Wilde agreeing to bury past differences and having one last stab at getting it right. If Crouch's offer of £2m still stands then that could be used to bring in a proper manager without having to resort to a firesale of key players. It might also go someway towards pacifying the fanbase.

 

Can't see it happening though.

Edited 19 January, 2009 by gordonToo

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I reckon I know who the mystery person is.

 

If I'm right he's a decent person and the self styled "most optimistic Saints fan there is" but I don't see him having the financial clout to do much about our situation.

 

Sorry but I'm through with false dawns. We ain't going to solve this one with positive thinking.

 

I don't want to blow this up into something big. This person is a local businessman who wants to organise fans into a situation wherby they can make a difference. No more no less. He certainly cannot afford to mount anything like a takeover nor does he know anyone who can but he is prepared to spend some of his hard earned cash and time to perhaps, just perhaps find a way to deliver the club from its present hamstrung predicament. It probably will fail because it will need many hands and as we have seen with the Trust it seems most fans initiatives inevitably founder but imo anything is worth giving it a go.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

It also needs a receptive audience. Unfortunately, while a lot of fans will agree with most of the voted-on policies of the Trust, most of them will also use the one policy - whatever it may be - they don't agree with to beat it with and refuse to join or get involved solely because of that.

 

It would be nigh-on impossible to have a series of policies that every single supporter agreed on, and for some reason there seems to be a complete lack of any willing on the part of anybody to compromise.

 

Interesting analysis of why the Trust did not work, Steve. Were there other reasons and do you know the current status or position of the Trust? Is it now just NI's mouthpiece or something more? Its presence imo now is a hindrance just at a time where it is needed the most.

[slickmick]

I don't want to blow this up into something big. This person is a local businessman who wants to organise fans into a situation wherby they can make a difference. No more no less. He certainly cannot afford to mount anything like a takeover nor does he know anyone who can but he is prepared to spend some of his hard earned cash and time to perhaps, just perhaps find a way to deliver the club from its present hamstrung predicament. It probably will fail because it will need many hands and as we have seen with the Trust it seems most fans initiatives inevitably founder but imo anything is worth giving it a go.

 

A ha, he wants as many fans as he can to form a kind of consortium.

How many will depend on how much I guess.

Getting warm ?

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Frank's cousin

Like thats a problem for me....jeez and I am accuse dof taking it all too seriously....

Frank I don't want to escalate this - of course your opinion is welcome and legitimate, its just that there are times your posts do tend to lecture, sermonise or whatever the correct word is. I am sure we all do it to a degree because it is a way of persuading others to come round to our viewpoints but if you could read your some of your posts as an outsider you would probably see what I am saying.

 

You have no idea of Crouch's precise motives in offering the £2m and yet you are prepared to criticise from what appears to be your chosen moral highground.

 

We have seen what has gone on in the past and even those reduced to communication in braile alone could not fail to spot that all parties coming together is our only hope. There will be no magic investor to save the day so we shall just have to hope for the best from what is remaining. If Crouch wanted to he could put that £2M in now and do a lot of good (afterall he's not worried about what will happen to it?). We know that will never happen, so what will happen to that money. Be used to buy up the charred remains or not even bother. Equally you can blame Lowe and Wilde for not finding a way of letting that money come in, even by stepping aside. If the 3 main parties came together for the good of the club it is more than probable that something may be achieved, but the way we are going no good can come.