End Game - the next 2 weeks

[Seaford Saint]

I was there Saturday and it was bad. Its mid January and we are 2nd from bottom. The new manager has tried so many players in so many formations and we are where we are. It must be obvious to anyone that unless fundamental changes are made, we are doomed. So I fully expect changes to be made.

 

We can argue about tactics,about playing personal, the manager and Rupert. If the slide into the lower leagues is to be halted, there will have to be a change of manager, additional players brought in etc.

 

I have no idea how the changes will come about but I am certain they will.

 

It is the definition of madness to carry on without change and expect a different outcome.

 

The other directors know this so does Lowe. It HAS to happen.If it doesn't I do believe that this will be the begiining of the end.

Edited 18 January, 2009 by Seaford Saint
toilet break

[Wildgoose]

It feels this time like nothing is going to change.....even Rupert Lowe has previously always taken action by this stage. If nothing happens this week I don't expect that it will....darker times ahead I think :-(

[Colinjb]

Two and a half years ago there was at least the chance for change. Right now, I cannot see where it is comming from. Lowe is more powerful then he has ever been, he has no serious internal opposition and the economic climate is such that there is f*ck all chance someone will buy their way into influence.

 

Short of me winning the Lotto Euromillions rollover he is unchallenged.

[Gemmel]

I think half the problem is, that if Lowe acts against JP, then he is acting against himself (As in admitting he fo0ked up big time) and that's just not how the man works.

 

He might not have been there, but he will have heard what happened and he will also know that his last exit, started the day the crowd turned on him after the ipswich match. My worry is that he will sweat it out based on arrogance. I really can't see him staying if we get relegated.

[Colinjb]

I think half the problem is, that if Lowe acts against JP, then he is acting against himself (As in admitting he fo0ked up big time) and that's just not how the man works.

 

He might not have been there, but he will have heard what happened and he will also know that his last exit, started the day the crowd turned on him after the ipswich match. My worry is that he will sweat it out based on arrogance. I really can't see him staying if we get relegated.

 

He only stays due to one thing: Money. His current motivation will be the belief that he can work our way out of the mire. He will only leave if:

 

a) He gets his shares bought out at a rate he sees as reasonable or good profit over his initial investment or

b) All is lost, the club go into administration and his shareholding is worthless.

 

So, either Saints grow and he makes some cash, or the club go under.

 

Only one of those options is likely to occur in the near future. The only fear is if we do go into administration that he does a Ken Bates, buys everything back under a lower rate and then continues further, for me, that would be the final straw, I would actually try and turn away and devote my emotion and effort elsewhere.

Edited 19 January, 2009 by Colinjb

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I think half the problem is, that if Lowe acts against JP, then he is acting against himself (As in admitting he fo0ked up big time) and that's just not how the man works.

 

He might not have been there, but he will have heard what happened and he will also know that his last exit, started the day the crowd turned on him after the ipswich match. My worry is that he will sweat it out based on arrogance. I really can't see him staying if we get relegated.

 

If Lowe decides he has to dump him, he will pay JP to come up with his own reason for resigning, and the payment will have the usual terms attached to it i.e. keep your gob totally shut about everything.

[Paul Chuckle]

I think the only way we can get change is if Jan resigns as i don't think Lowe will sack him!

 

If the fans put pressure on Jan over the next few games it may well work as i see him as a man who is very emotional and i can't see him taking to much stick before he walks.

 

Instead of targetting Lowe at games it might be an idea to vent your frustration at Jan?????

[Frank's cousin]

I think half the problem is, that if Lowe acts against JP, then he is acting against himself (As in admitting he fo0ked up big time) and that's just not how the man works.

 

He might not have been there, but he will have heard what happened and he will also know that his last exit, started the day the crowd turned on him after the ipswich match. My worry is that he will sweat it out based on arrogance. I really can't see him staying if we get relegated.

 

Hopefully not, Lowe was never shy from sacking's in the past of those he appointed, although he traditionally leaves it late...too late could be argued, I think the only thing preventing this right now is money - the potential compensation payout on top of another managers wages...

[Toomer]

As many have said before if Lowe gives JP the tin tack it will be after the window is shut. On the other hand JP may not get sacked or walk because Lowe has filled him up with the your the man to take my vision forward.

[DT]

JP is a dishonourable man for not resigning. Lowe is an immensely thick headed, obstinate one to not sack him and admit he was wrong. Can't see either happening to be honest. What a pile of old cr@p.

[Ponty]

JP is a dishonourable man for not resigning. Lowe is an immensely thick headed, obstinate one to not sack him and admit he was wrong. Can't see either happening to be honest. What a pile of old cr@p.

 

Nah, I can't fathom that sentence. It's honourable to give in and walk away? I don't think so.

 

It might be what SFC needs him to do but I don't believe there's any honour in quitting.

[SaintDonkey]

Hopefully not' date=' Lowe was never shy from sacking's in the past of those he appointed, although he traditionally leaves it late...too late could be argued, I think the only thing preventing this right now is money - the potential compensation payout on top of another managers wages...[/quote']

 

The potential compensation payout worries me as well. I was pontificating a couple of weekes back whether we'd have to sell someone to fund the dismissal of the Dutch trio - it never drew any serious debate though.

[saintwarwick]

The potential compensation payout worries me as well. I was pontificating a couple of weekes back whether we'd have to sell someone to fund the dismissal of the Dutch trio - it never drew any serious debate though.

 

Surely we brought the dutch trio in because they were the cheap option so it wouldn't be too costly to replace them, keeping them would be costly imo.

[SaintDonkey]

Surely we brought the dutch trio in because they were the cheap option so it wouldn't be too costly to replace them, keeping them would be costly imo.

 

True their compensation payouts won't be huge - but I think I heard somewhere that we're not exactly rolling in cash at the moment. Then there's the hiring of a new team, possibly involving paying compensation payments to another club. A new team who'll, by definition really, cost more.

 

Don't get me wrong I think we need a change. I just don't know how we'll fund it without selling players.

[dubai_phil]

With regard to the OP

 

IMHO we have one week, simply because right now instead of having a "big problem" we now seem to have a big "disaster"

 

Those at the top probably missed the time for fighting the fires before they got out of control and right now they will have a whole bundle of nightmarish scenarios to deal with. I just think it will take a couple of days of calm thinking - it is clear that there was no plan B, so I cannot see the "Board" taking a knee jerk reaction to fire JP WITHOUT some sort of plan B or replacement at least in mind. Sure we can all pontificate about who it could be and what they may do (if anything) but we don't actually have a plan ourselves yet, so I would expect they would take a couple of days to actually think before reacting.

 

My guess is that next week is the real killer. The pressure of whether we have to sell to bring in somebody new.. Ouch

[Seaford Saint]

With regard to the OP

 

IMHO we have one week, simply because right now instead of having a "big problem" we now seem to have a big "disaster"

 

Those at the top probably missed the time for fighting the fires before they got out of control and right now they will have a whole bundle of nightmarish scenarios to deal with. I just think it will take a couple of days of calm thinking - it is clear that there was no plan B, so I cannot see the "Board" taking a knee jerk reaction to fire JP WITHOUT some sort of plan B or replacement at least in mind. Sure we can all pontificate about who it could be and what they may do (if anything) but we don't actually have a plan ourselves yet, so I would expect they would take a couple of days to actually think before reacting.

 

My guess is that next week is the real killer. The pressure of whether we have to sell to bring in somebody new.. Ouch

 

That's the way I see it....we have a "problem" to use your terminology but relegation would be "the disaster" and I can't imagine if that happens we would remain a solvent club. I have confidence that those at the top will act even if I couldn't predict what that action might ultimately be.

[OLYMPIC]

I really think this is the end and relegation is the only outcome this season,after the result on Saturday i can't see any positive outcome in the near future.

If we had won then we might of got some sort of momentum going but you just can't see where a win will come from.

As far as Lowe is concerned we are now in a much worse state than when he left before and even if he goes i would not want to see any of the current board in control.

[Seaford Saint]

The nightmare scenario, no significant changes - or at least none publicised. I do fear its the end if that's the case.

 

I guess options were to replace the manager (I don't actually blame the manager too much) but it would probably help.

 

I can only hope that new monies are made available for players.

[St Landrew]

Having read through the thread, there are many points that ring true. The truth is, the club has backed itself into a financial tight corner. Never has the cliche - being between a rock and a hard place been so apt, for a football club.

 

Rupert, with his tradition of losing his managers [i won't say sacking, as it isn't always true] either early [stuart Gray and Paul Sturrock], or too late [steve Wigley], finds himself in a position where he has chosen, not only the man to take the squad forward, but he's also chosen the plan. So he's responsible for more than being a chairman. Whereas another club will sack the manager for taking the squad in the wrong playing direction, so to speak; the same can't be said of Jan Poortvliet. He has taken the squad in his direction at the full behest of Rupert Lowe. So how can you sack JP..? You can't - you have to sack RL.

 

And then who else takes up the reins - Mark Wotte..? It's the same thing. If RL sacks JP [which he won't] he'll have to overturn everything. The whole youth team experiment ends. The whole total dependance upon homegrown players getting into the first team, by way of succession, ends. It's funny, but often we say that JP has no Plan B. Well RL has no Plan B either. How anyone, who is so cautious and prudent with the finances, can be such a juggernaut and committed to one cause, knowing that failure means a total crash, has to be some kind of split personality.

 

RL isn't going for another option because, like many people said earlier in the season, there are no other options. Unless a minor miracle happens, it's either sink slow or sink fast. And I don't believe in miracles.

[Capel Saint]

Having read through the thread, there are many points that ring true. The truth is, the club has backed itself into a financial tight corner. Never has the cliche - being between a rock and a hard place been so apt, for a football club.

 

Rupert, with his tradition of losing his managers [i won't say sacking, as it isn't always true] either early [stuart Gray and Paul Sturrock], or too late [steve Wigley], finds himself in a position where he has chosen, not only the man to take the squad forward, but he's also chosen the plan. So he's responsible for more than being a chairman. Whereas another club will sack the manager for taking the squad in the wrong playing direction, so to speak; the same can't be said of Jan Poortvliet. He has taken the squad in his direction at the full behest of Rupert Lowe. So how can you sack JP..? You can't - you have to sack RL.

 

And then who else takes up the reins - Mark Wotte..? It's the same thing. If RL sacks JP [which he won't] he'll have to overturn everything. The whole youth team experiment ends. The whole total dependance upon homegrown players getting into the first team, by way of succession, ends. It's funny, but often we say that JP has no Plan B. Well RL has no Plan B either. How anyone, who is so cautious and prudent with the finances, can be such a juggernaut and committed to one cause, knowing that failure means a total crash, has to be some kind of split personality.

 

RL isn't going for another option because, like many people said earlier in the season, there are no other options. Unless a minor miracle happens, it's either sink slow or sink fast. And I don't believe in miracles.

 

Good post, quite agree!

[JohnnyFartPants]

Having read through the thread, there are many points that ring true. The truth is, the club has backed itself into a financial tight corner. Never has the cliche - being between a rock and a hard place been so apt, for a football club.

 

Rupert, with his tradition of losing his managers [i won't say sacking, as it isn't always true] either early [stuart Gray and Paul Sturrock], or too late [steve Wigley], finds himself in a position where he has chosen, not only the man to take the squad forward, but he's also chosen the plan. So he's responsible for more than being a chairman. Whereas another club will sack the manager for taking the squad in the wrong playing direction, so to speak; the same can't be said of Jan Poortvliet. He has taken the squad in his direction at the full behest of Rupert Lowe. So how can you sack JP..? You can't - you have to sack RL.

 

And then who else takes up the reins - Mark Wotte..? It's the same thing. If RL sacks JP [which he won't] he'll have to overturn everything. The whole youth team experiment ends. The whole total dependance upon homegrown players getting into the first team, by way of succession, ends. It's funny, but often we say that JP has no Plan B. Well RL has no Plan B either. How anyone, who is so cautious and prudent with the finances, can be such a juggernaut and committed to one cause, knowing that failure means a total crash, has to be some kind of split personality.

 

RL isn't going for another option because, like many people said earlier in the season, there are no other options. Unless a minor miracle happens, it's either sink slow or sink fast. And I don't believe in miracles.

 

Sort of agree, but it isn't beyond possibility that we survive. Sure, we are not playing fantastic, but neither are other teams down there. Saga could find his scoring boots, the Dutch centre half could steady them at the back and a few wins may happen. It is as easy to get down about being beaten by a team that leap frogs us at the bottom as it is to get carried away if we "fluke" a win against a top team in this division.

 

What I do hope happens is that everyone gets behind JP for the next game, whether it is heartfelt or not, as one thing is certain, he wants it and needs it as much as we do.

[ottery st mary]

JP will be paying particular attention to who is right behind him from now on...Especially having received a vote of confidence from hiss boss...watch your shoulder blades Jan...someone wants to offload the blame, very soon.

[St Landrew]

Sort of agree, but it isn't beyond possibility that we survive. Sure, we are not playing fantastic, but neither are other teams down there. Saga could find his scoring boots, the Dutch centre half could steady them at the back and a few wins may happen. It is as easy to get down about being beaten by a team that leap frogs us at the bottom as it is to get carried away if we "fluke" a win against a top team in this division.

 

What I do hope happens is that everyone gets behind JP for the next game, whether it is heartfelt or not, as one thing is certain, he wants it and needs it as much as we do.

 

Of course there's always hope JFP, the season hasn't ended yet. It's what Saints fans have existed upon for the last few seasons. But hope is getting to be a pretty thin commodity around St Marys these days. Despite my words of depression, I always want Saints to win through, whoever is at the helm.

[SaintRobbie]

It feels this time like nothing is going to change.....even Rupert Lowe has previously always taken action by this stage. If nothing happens this week I don't expect that it will....darker times ahead I think :-(

 

This time though, this is totally Ruperts man and totally Rupert's idea. Lowe is also acting as our Director of Football and forcing policy on to the manager for player selection etc in order to promote youth and alienate (so that they leave) our older players.

 

Lowe is directing JP. JP is partly clueless of the league and certainly not a dynamic leader. He has his own faults which are contributing.

 

Remove of the manager is only part of the problem. They come as a pair IMHO. You have to remove both DoF and JP to stand any real chance of bringing about a successful change, and it is NOT too late if change is made quickly.

 

It is barking to assume that Lowe and JP will succeed. They will not. We are going to be relegated by April under this experiment based on the increasingly poorer performances we are witnessing.

 

Add the FACT that the fans have turned on both Lowe and JP and are now likely to protest and demonstrate against the 2 and NOT support the team, JP/Lowe have lost their 12th man.

 

So there is ONLY one option to try and stay in this league.

 

REMOVAL OF JP AND LOWE IMMEDIATELY.

[yorkiesaint]

i think we're missing the point here. if we are heading for administration then we can't replace JP. For all we know JP may have even tendered his resignation after the donny game, which Lowe has then talked him out of, because he needs someone to keep things ticking over. for now i fear we are stuck with the status quo.