norwaysaint Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric has been one of our most criticised players this season, while Valery has been one who made an immediate good impression given his chance. Does Cedric deserve his place back to show that he too can perform under good management, or has Valery done enough to keep his place now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Valery was shocking v Cardiff but much better last night. Would keep with him for Huddersfield. Needs to show more going forward though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric every time. Valery is promising but has a long way to go before he could be selected ahead of an experienced international. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Long way to go for Valery but I would keep him in for sure. No concerns about him starting the majority of the games between now and the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Hoping Valery can push Soares for his place. No harm in having them fight it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric is #1, Valery is currently a competent backup, who hopefully will continue to develope and challenge for the starting place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 For as long as Valery isn't a risk, I'd keep him in, accepting he isn't the finished article. There's no better way to learn than by playing competitive football and if he keeps improving to the standard we hope, he's our long-term RB. Cedric is better right now, but for how much longer? He's been in the squad when we've been leaking goals and he rarely contributes with assists, so what would we be missing by sticking with Valery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 I think it's actually great that this is even a question. 2 right backs at last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 I think it's actually great that this is even a question. 2 right backs at last! I think that's a little harsh on Pied in all honesty. In the few appearances he made for us he looked a solid if unspectacular player, and a more than adequate understudy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 I've only seen Valery against Man U and Arsenal didn't disgrace himself in either game ( though I understand he was poor at Cardiff). He seems better defensively than he does going forward from what I've seen. I've always thought Cedric gets forward well in attack but is usually let down be his final ball. The way we played yesterday though, if Ralph can get Cedric's crossing up to snuff, I'd play Cedric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Valery gained confidence as the game went on yesterday , I'd keep him in for now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 2 right backs at last! I think that's a little harsh on Pied in all honesty. In the few appearances he made for us he looked a solid if unspectacular player, and a more than adequate understudy. Pied was fine as a back-up. I was referring to this season really, Bexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewell Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Valery was very accomplished defensively yesterday but as stated above he was way off the pace versus Cardiff and was a red card waiting to happen so was rightly hauled off at half time. He is part of a winning team at the moment and whilst his forward play needs to develop with confidence the fact he seems to want to defend well means I cannot see Cedric getting his place back if Valery continues to play like yesterday, for me Cedric is woeful defensively and that's his primary role in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric every day if the week Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Pied was fine as a back-up. I was referring to this season really, Bexy. Oh right, fair enough. But then in that case, we've had Valery available all season, haven't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 I'm sick and tired of Soares either losing his mark in front of goal or beaten in the air on his near post. Valery is the future. Against Cardiff he was booked early and Murphy/Cardiff were playing on it knowing he really couldn't compete and block off Murphy. He's played two and a half games, Manchester Utd, Arsenal for four points and at Cardiff it was a high priced International defender who made a massive Horlicks in conceding the goal otherwise another point. Valery all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 The emergence of Valery will hopefully buck Cedric’s ideas up and push him into performing well again. Starting the season with no competition can’t have been good for his motivation. Stick with Valery until Cedric is fit, but then judge them from training. We also don’t want to burn Valery out so I think rotation is the way to go long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric. He's better currently, and I imagine he would fit well into Hasenhustle's strategy....might even improve him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric. He's better currently, and I imagine he would fit well into Hasenhustle's strategy....might even improve him. Can't be difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Troy Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Sadly (given Valerys effort and the exciting fact hes a academy youngster) it has to be soares. Itll happen for Valery and expect him to be gradually brought in so soares can do one. Think its hard to compare as Valery looked v competent defensively at teh weekend but cedric does with 3 CBS - he doesnt have as much far post defending to do in that set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric for now when he comes back, Valery in the long-term! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric for me. He is the more complete player. Valery could be the future though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsarum Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric all day long Valery looks good if playing wing back, but looked poor as right back in a back four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Huddersfield will play at lot of long ball & crosses. Cedric is a not a great defender and awful in the air. Valery is a rough diamond, but miles better in the air than Cedric. I missed Cardiff (thankfully) and heard Valery got roasted. However I have seen him vs. Leicester, Man U. & Arsenal and have been very impressed given the circumstances. Valery has great potential and has everything in his locker attribute wise. With the right coaching, we could have a player here. I would have Cedric on the bench (needs a kick up the ass) and play Valery. My guess is that RH will do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 You cannot put an old head on your shoulders, yes there has been some promise in Valery's appearances so far but his HT substitution at Cardiff shows how fragile his confidence can be when things do not go as well. Yesterday he had time and space because of our set up but still he made very few runs to the bye-line and when he did their LB read him easily, so let's not get carried away just yet, Maybe next season if Cedric decides to try his luck elsewhere but right now we should not forget that on his day Cedric is a top class international player and can create havoc down the right wing. In fact our situation is almost ideal with the young challenger in the wings and a new enthusiastic and paternalistic manager who seems to have no favourites and possibly getting every single player to improve and give of their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric should thrive with a good coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimatt Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Cedric with the threat of competition for the first time in ages. Give Valery midweek games. If we manage to get safe from relegation then Valery can get more games at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 We'll need them both over the next few weeks with the amount of games so let's just see how they fight it out. Valery is a useful "out" ball and certainly better in the air than Cedric. Cedric looks quicker and his aerial weakness, defensively, would be less exposed if we carry on with a back 3/5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintAndy14 Posted 17 December, 2018 Share Posted 17 December, 2018 Huddersfield will play at lot of long ball & crosses. Cedric is a not a great defender and awful in the air. Valery is a rough diamond, but miles better in the air than Cedric. I missed Cardiff (thankfully) and heard Valery got roasted. However I have seen him vs. Leicester, Man U. & Arsenal and have been very impressed given the circumstances. Valery has great potential and has everything in his locker attribute wise. With the right coaching, we could have a player here. I would have Cedric on the bench (needs a kick up the ass) and play Valery. My guess is that RH will do just that. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 I can't decide. Torn between; Cedric has been awful and Valery has shown enough promise to deserve a go and; Cedric is vastly more experienced and Ralph will get the best out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Cedric, once he's had the 'my way or highway'brief. Valery one for the future. Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Cedric, once he's had the 'my way or highway'brief. Valery one for the future. Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk So, when does the 'future', become the present? We scream blue murder that our youth aren't good enough, but want tried and tested in the team. Before you can blink, that fresh faced 17 year old, is 21, and those sage and knowledgeable knoweverything football experts on here, want rid of them. We used to give the kids a chance once upon a time, and I'm glad, that we again have a manager, who does just that. Experience comes with games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Keep Valery, we need to build for the future. I'm sure Cedric's agent has plenty of clubs like Barcelona and Man Utd lined up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 So, when does the 'future', become the present? We scream blue murder that our youth aren't good enough, but want tried and tested in the team. Before you can blink, that fresh faced 17 year old, is 21, and those sage and knowledgeable knoweverything football experts on here, want rid of them. We used to give the kids a chance once upon a time, and I'm glad, that we again have a manager, who does just that. Experience comes with games. If you are good enough you are old enough if any of our youth players are better than our first team player in that position most managers would pick them. There is a tendency to among fans to overstate the ability of our youth. Valery has come in and done a job but he isn't as good as Cedric if Cedric is playing to his best level. In the end you want your best players on the pitch its not and never has been about giving youth a chance just for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 If you are good enough you are old enough if any of our youth players are better than our first team player in that position most managers would pick them. There is a tendency to among fans to overstate the ability of our youth. Valery has come in and done a job but he isn't as good as Cedric if Cedric is playing to his best level. In the end you want your best players on the pitch its not and never has been about giving youth a chance just for the sake of it. My point being, how can they become good enough, if you don't play them! Dennis Wise was good enough, but we never gave him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 My point being, how can they become good enough, if you don't play them! Dennis Wise was good enough, but we never gave him a chance. Walcott, Bale, Shaw, Ox all good enough and people at the club knew it so they got into the team without much experience. Coaches/ manager know if they have a special youth player on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Just good to see that we may actually have competition for that RB spot. Could actually make Cedric up his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Walcott, Bale, Shaw, Ox all good enough and people at the club knew it so they got into the team without much experience. GOOD Coaches/ manager know if they have a special youth player on their hands. Fixed it for you. Some managers don't have the slightest interest in youth teams and will always favour the senior pros no matter what. Koeman was a prime example. My wife's nephew is in the Everton academy and he told me he wouldn't even say hello to the kids if he walked past them, that's how disinterested he was. Remember 'Arry setting the kids up to fail against Mansfield in the cup that time to make a point, because he was being pressured from above to play them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Valery is for the future. Play Soares with Valery on the bench and give him 20 mins or so when appropriate to continue his development. That will keep Cedric on his toes until Valery is perhaps, ready to take the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Hard one really, but at last Cedric has a challenge from a lad who looks perfectly capable. Under Ralph and his analytical football if he is willing to learn Valery could thrive very quickly, if Cedric responds to the new mans techniques we could be very spoilt for choice. It could then come down to pace and the opposition. I would give Valery another spin v Huddersfield, rest him v WH if Cedric is fully fit, then bring him back for City. I thought him, Bednarek and Redmond made a tidy right sided trio on Sunday...........................but once again how pleasing it is to have viable competition in that position. You never know Ralph might give them both a go Cedric left Valery right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 I wouldn't play either against Huddersfield. If Lemina is fit I'd play another man in midfield and a back 4. Stephens additional height and strength at RB would be our best defensive option imo. If he does play a 3 I'd prefer Cedric - he's a good player and will improve now we have a proper coach/manager, and some competition for his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10i Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 As every knows we are - despite that win - in a relegation fight. So it is undisputable that we have to put out the best Team available. Valery is far from being ready, as we saw especially vs. Cardiff. He wasn't bad vs. Arsenal, but he wasn't good neither. Cedric is often wrongly accused of leaking Goals when losing headers, he normally shouldn't even have to challenge for, had he an able CD playing next to him. He won the EC with Portugal, he is a proven international and he finally scored a great Goal vs. Man.U. for a Point. You can't imagine Valery doing Things of such importance right now. So there shouldn't be any discussion of whom to Play if both are fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyell Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Cedric at his best plays every time. We don't yet know what effect Hasenhuttl might have on him - if he bucks his ideas up a bit, he's one of the better right backs in the league. Valery has shown some promise, though, and can provide competition, back up and get some minutes under his belt once/if our situation becomes less critical. He's been solid, in the main, in a back five. Playing in a four against Cardiff, though, his naivety was exposed. Murphy had the beating of him in their first foot race and he was really spooked from that moment on - almost like he didn't think there was any other way to deal with the winger other than race him. When the much slower Stephens came on at half time, he snuffed out Murphy's threat fairly comfortably. I think Valery looks pretty good for the long term. Athletic, quite aggressive in the tackle, generally (one game aside) a cool head. Doesn't seem to have a change of gears, however. A bit like Glen Johnson - everything he does is at the exact same pace, a leisurely trot. That might prove to be a problem, but hopefully it's a legacy of our terrible coaching and with a manager that's going to push players to their physical limit, Valery might find a bit more intensity and running power over time. Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Cedric is the senior player and would usually start assuming fitness ok. Valary is a great prospect, but for now he lacks confidence going forwards and Cedric is a more rounded player in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 ...if he bucks his ideas up a bit, he's one of the better right backs in the league... Out of interest...based on what? Off the top of my head, here's a list of RB's I'd say are better than him. Azpilicueta Walker Trippier Valencia Moses Zabaleta Bellerin Aurier Clyne Alexander-Arnold Leichtsteiner Coleman Periera Zappacosta Danilo Young Possibly: Janmaat Montoya Femenia Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 Did anyone actually see Cedric during the game at SMS. I ask that because I've got a feeling he wasn't bothered enough to be there. How do I know this, I don't but I suspect ? As I was arriving at SMS at 1245 he rushed across the road in front of my wife's car and jumped into a car which drove off towards the docks. If he hadn't bothered to be at the game I doubt he'll get much change from Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 As every knows we are - despite that win - in a relegation fight. So it is undisputable that we have to put out the best Team available. Valery is far from being ready, as we saw especially vs. Cardiff. He wasn't bad vs. Arsenal, but he wasn't good neither. Cedric is often wrongly accused of leaking Goals when losing headers, he normally shouldn't even have to challenge for, had he an able CD playing next to him. He won the EC with Portugal, he is a proven international and he finally scored a great Goal vs. Man.U. for a Point. You can't imagine Valery doing Things of such importance right now. So there shouldn't be any discussion of whom to Play if both are fit... For a start it doesn't matter what Cedric wants to do because opponents have his card marked and players who are decent in the air are tasked to slip the centre back and pull off onto Cedric who is too small to cope. It's planned not accidental. As for international experience, the ball is mostly on the ground and rarely has to defend in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 This thread reminds me of celery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintTex Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 a 6'-2" Cedric would do nicely. I too am sick of seeing Cedric beaten on the far post. (it's not due to the lack of effort, it's just his height limits his ability to defend in certain situations). Yes, Cedric is likely better going forward, but the priority right now is too stop leaking goals. After Varley picked up that yellow against Cardiff, it was right to pull him. His lack of experience put him in jeopardy of a second yellow. Start Valery, keep Cedric warmed on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 18 December, 2018 Share Posted 18 December, 2018 We need a settled side, so I would go with Valery, definitely. Reward those who did so well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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