Good article from The Independent

[Tony10]

I hope and pray that we get Ralph Hasenhüttl as manager and Paul Mitchell as DOF. This would be the masterstroke desperately needed to revitalise the club. Please make this happen and please back them with funding.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/next-southampton-fc-manager-mark-hughes-sacked-ralph-hasenhuttl-ethos-director-football-a8665936.html

 

Apologies if this link has been posted before.

 

COYS

[tajjuk]

Some big typos in it but it's spot on. Something we have been saying for a while, the club has lost its direction, it's style and way of playing, this occurred from top to bottom. Hughes was the ultimate example of it, we looked rudderless on the pitch, there is no style of play, no defined shape, no high press or specific counter etc. It just looked like 11 players who had been plonked on the pitch, who'd done some basic drills during the week, sent out by a manager who I presume thought that his personality and motivation was enough to get them to win games.

 

Keeping the firefighter on does not work, and keeping these failure managers in jobs does not work, these managers are premier league experienced, but they are also experienced in losing and failing for the most part

[Suhari]

Pretty much spot on.

 

I hope we do return to the principles that we had pre-Puel, and that we maintain them.

 

Really miss us having an 'identity'... who wants to be another vanilla, not-top-6 PL team?

[Tony10]

Couldn't agree more. I know it's the Daily Fail here but if the compo figures are true then wow. At least we can hopefully move on in a positive trajectory now. Everything crossed right now.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6456997/Mark-Hughes-sacking-cost-Southampton-staggering-6m.html

[doddisalegend]

Some big typos in it but it's spot on. Something we have been saying for a while, the club has lost its direction, it's style and way of playing, this occurred from top to bottom. Hughes was the ultimate example of it, we looked rudderless on the pitch, there is no style of play, no defined shape, no high press or specific counter etc. It just looked like 11 players who had been plonked on the pitch, who'd done some basic drills during the week, sent out by a manager who I presume thought that his personality and motivation was enough to get them to win games.

 

Keeping the firefighter on does not work, and keeping these failure managers in jobs does not work, these managers are premier league experienced, but they are also experienced in losing and failing for the most part

 

 

I'd say Mope and Puel had a style just not one that the fans liked or in Mopes case one that worked.

 

Hughes I'd agree looked totally clueless in that regard.

[tajjuk]

I'd say Mope and Puel had a style just not one that the fans liked or in Mopes case one that worked.

 

Hughes I'd agree looked totally clueless in that regard.

 

Puel was fine not that exciting football but he knew how to set up a team and make sure they had jobs, Mope was very defensive and to me managed us like we were the level of say Cardiff, a newly promoted team who were expected to lose every week which meant we threw away winnable games against other mid table and lower teams.

[doddisalegend]

Puel was fine not that exciting football but he knew how to set up a team and make sure they had jobs, Mope was very defensive and to me managed us like we were the level of say Cardiff, a newly promoted team who were expected to lose every week which meant we threw away winnable games against other mid table and lower teams.

 

 

Yeah but they had a style. This season was just odd we spent all pre season clearly planning and recruiting to play a back 5 with a plan to counter attack and the abandoned it half way through the first game after that it was just a mess under Hughes.

[trousers]

Couldn't agree more. I know it's the Daily Fail here but if the compo figures are true then wow. At least we can hopefully move on in a positive trajectory now. Everything crossed right now.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6456997/Mark-Hughes-sacking-cost-Southampton-staggering-6m.html

 

I know I'm stating the obvious but, relatively, £6m is a drop in the ocean if we avoid relegation.

[alpine_saint]

I have been saying this for donkeys years and been totally ridiculed for it.

[derry]

It's not just Hughes. Last season we were dead and buried in March but Hughes came in and faced initially top of the table teams and we struggled for points but we did enough to stay up. Credit to him for that. This season we brought in more players. Ings looks a decent signing but he was a no brainer and didn't need a black box to identify because he wanted to come home and besides prove a point after being released as a kid.

 

My feeling is that Les Reed was the main problem. Boufal, Carillo, Elyanoussi, Vestergaard, etc all players that lacked pace. Apart from Long, Redmond we are a very slow team. Buying a cheap lightweight small right back was ridiculous. Apart from the number of crosses that hit nobody because he never looks up I've lost count of the number of goals that are given away on his post as bigger players pull off onto him.

 

Reed seemed to love the bull**** that was generated by the spin doctors, the Southampton way, We march on, the black box etc, how did that work out. Slow players and two managers that were so negative it completely changed how we played. Poor game, 40% possession won, great game 70% possession and lost. trouble was most of the possession was keep ball in the back five.

 

It's a fundamental fact, slow players can't live in the Premier. We even buy a ponderous 6' 6" centre back that can't jump and doesn't dominate in the air. Hughes was let down in the summer. Armstrong was good but didn't need the black box he was well known to most people who keep an eye on Celtic.

 

In future we have to make it a must that players recruited are quick as defenders or attackers and at least in midfield have good acceleration and change of pace and can see a pass. We have too many that ignore the runners and pass sideways and backwards. The criteria has to be players that risk the killer pass, if the ball is lost then swarm all over the opposition in numbers and get it back. That's how Poch played, that was the Southampton way, hopefully that's how Hasenhuttl sees it too.

 

Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes played the way they knew, not the developed Southampton way under Poch. Koeman did it his way but he brought in the players that worked, Mane, Pelle and Tadic etc. Reed bragged about the Southampton way but that was rubbish. Each manager he signed up didn't suit or buy into the philosophy. Consequently we ended up within two years of flawed recruitment with a team messed about with no style, philosophy or pace.

 

Let's get back to Pace, Press, and high tempo. Then never take on another manager who doesn't fit that. That was Reed's problem, lots of spin but the actions proved otherwise.

[Tony10]

Great post derry.

[Rebel]

That's more or less exactly how I see it Derry.

 

A fact that stands out for me is we sold over £30M worth of right back in Chambers and Clyne and replaced them with Cedric for £3.5M and 2 free transfers in Cuco Martina and Jeremy Pied - and none of them good enough. It kind of sums up exactly where Reed and Co went wrong.

 

Maybe he was too busy patting himself on the back for doing such a great job to really see what he was doing.

[SuperSAINT]

It's not just Hughes. Last season we were dead and buried in March but Hughes came in and faced initially top of the table teams and we struggled for points but we did enough to stay up. Credit to him for that. This season we brought in more players. Ings looks a decent signing but he was a no brainer and didn't need a black box to identify because he wanted to come home and besides prove a point after being released as a kid.

 

My feeling is that Les Reed was the main problem. Boufal, Carillo, Elyanoussi, Vestergaard, etc all players that lacked pace. Apart from Long, Redmond we are a very slow team. Buying a cheap lightweight small right back was ridiculous. Apart from the number of crosses that hit nobody because he never looks up I've lost count of the number of goals that are given away on his post as bigger players pull off onto him.

 

Reed seemed to love the bull**** that was generated by the spin doctors, the Southampton way, We march on, the black box etc, how did that work out. Slow players and two managers that were so negative it completely changed how we played. Poor game, 40% possession won, great game 70% possession and lost. trouble was most of the possession was keep ball in the back five.

 

It's a fundamental fact, slow players can't live in the Premier. We even buy a ponderous 6' 6" centre back that can't jump and doesn't dominate in the air. Hughes was let down in the summer. Armstrong was good but didn't need the black box he was well known to most people who keep an eye on Celtic.

 

In future we have to make it a must that players recruited are quick as defenders or attackers and at least in midfield have good acceleration and change of pace and can see a pass. We have too many that ignore the runners and pass sideways and backwards. The criteria has to be players that risk the killer pass, if the ball is lost then swarm all over the opposition in numbers and get it back. That's how Poch played, that was the Southampton way, hopefully that's how Hasenhuttl sees it too.

 

Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes played the way they knew, not the developed Southampton way under Poch. Koeman did it his way but he brought in the players that worked, Mane, Pelle and Tadic etc. Reed bragged about the Southampton way but that was rubbish. Each manager he signed up didn't suit or buy into the philosophy. Consequently we ended up within two years of flawed recruitment with a team messed about with no style, philosophy or pace.

 

Let's get back to Pace, Press, and high tempo. Then never take on another manager who doesn't fit that. That was Reed's problem, lots of spin but the actions proved otherwise.

 

Top, top post & the question is can Ralph get something out of the messy mishmash of players that we have?

[Jonnyboy]

Time to sign Usain Bolt then.

[DrunkenSaint]

Top, top post & the question is can Ralph get something out of the messy mishmash of players that we have?

 

Only a few first teamers will fit into his ultra fit pacey system but he could look into recalling Reed, Hesketh and Sims who all have a bit of pace about them, Reed has done well at Blackburn and constantly presses the opposition so will fit right in but someone needs to point this out to him I hope someone at the club has been monitoring him.

One things for sure I think we will see a completely different team in a few months time but a mini clear out in January is a must, Austin,Gabbi,Jwp and Davis, i reckon won't suit the system, if we can off load those and get 1 in and use the youth we could look alot better in terms of pace and energy.

[Charlie Wayman]

Only a few first teamers will fit into his ultra fit pacey system but he could look into recalling Reed, Hesketh and Sims who all have a bit of pace about them, Reed has done well at Blackburn and constantly presses the opposition so will fit right in but someone needs to point this out to him I hope someone at the club has been monitoring him.

One things for sure I think we will see a completely different team in a few months time but a mini clear out in January is a must, Austin,Gabbi,Jwp and Davis, i reckon won't suit the system, if we can off load those and get 1 in and use the youth we could look alot better in terms of pace and energy.

 

He'll want players with pace AND silky skills, none of the ones you mention have much other than pace to offer

[skintsaint]

Only a few first teamers will fit into his ultra fit pacey system but he could look into recalling Reed, Hesketh and Sims who all have a bit of pace about them, Reed has done well at Blackburn and constantly presses the opposition so will fit right in but someone needs to point this out to him I hope someone at the club has been monitoring him.

One things for sure I think we will see a completely different team in a few months time but a mini clear out in January is a must, Austin,Gabbi,Jwp and Davis, i reckon won't suit the system, if we can off load those and get 1 in and use the youth we could look alot better in terms of pace and energy.

 

Looks to me as its only the front 3 or 4 that need to be pacey. We have them....just.

[SaintTex]

Comparisons to the 'Sunderland Cycle' should scare the crap out of everyone.

[DrunkenSaint]

Looks to me as its only the front 3 or 4 that need to be pacey. We have them....just.

 

The fwd 4 need to be the fastest in the team as they are the counter attackers, 2x CM and the wing backs also need a bit of pace about them, it's all about closing the opposition down quickly when the trap is set when off the ball but yes the fwd 4 are the ones who need to be the super quickies.

 

He'll want players with pace AND silky skills, none of the ones you mention have much other than pace to offer

 

If he wants silky skills then you can probably count out our entire team. It's pace and high energy levels esspecially the front 4 which we lack apart from maybe 3 players which might make his standards. The 3 I mentioned have pace and the energy levels and id imagine 2 of the front 4 would be subbed each match, so we need players on the sub bench of equal pace. Silky skills is just a big bonus.

[wild-saint]

Don’t believe the 6 million pay off. I don’t really know what his contract states but surely you could put him on garden leave until the end of his contract paying him his monthly wage. At the point he gets an offer from another club he would need to negotiate a way out of his current contract before he could take the new role. This would put us in a stronger position to negotiate a reduced compensation fee. Is this too simplistic, anyon any thoughts? Surely we don’t just give him 6million up front.

[saintquin]

Don’t believe the 6 million pay off. I don’t really know what his contract states but surely you could put him on garden leave until the end of his contract paying him his monthly wage. At the point he gets an offer from another club he would need to negotiate a way out of his current contract before he could take the new role. This would put us in a stronger position to negotiate a reduced compensation fee. Is this too simplistic, anyon any thoughts? Surely we don’t just give him 6million up front.

 

That's the way I thought it happens!

[verlaine1979]

It's not just Hughes. Last season we were dead and buried in March but Hughes came in and faced initially top of the table teams and we struggled for points but we did enough to stay up. Credit to him for that. This season we brought in more players. Ings looks a decent signing but he was a no brainer and didn't need a black box to identify because he wanted to come home and besides prove a point after being released as a kid.

 

My feeling is that Les Reed was the main problem. Boufal, Carillo, Elyanoussi, Vestergaard, etc all players that lacked pace. Apart from Long, Redmond we are a very slow team. Buying a cheap lightweight small right back was ridiculous. Apart from the number of crosses that hit nobody because he never looks up I've lost count of the number of goals that are given away on his post as bigger players pull off onto him.

 

Reed seemed to love the bull**** that was generated by the spin doctors, the Southampton way, We march on, the black box etc, how did that work out. Slow players and two managers that were so negative it completely changed how we played. Poor game, 40% possession won, great game 70% possession and lost. trouble was most of the possession was keep ball in the back five.

 

It's a fundamental fact, slow players can't live in the Premier. We even buy a ponderous 6' 6" centre back that can't jump and doesn't dominate in the air. Hughes was let down in the summer. Armstrong was good but didn't need the black box he was well known to most people who keep an eye on Celtic.

 

In future we have to make it a must that players recruited are quick as defenders or attackers and at least in midfield have good acceleration and change of pace and can see a pass. We have too many that ignore the runners and pass sideways and backwards. The criteria has to be players that risk the killer pass, if the ball is lost then swarm all over the opposition in numbers and get it back. That's how Poch played, that was the Southampton way, hopefully that's how Hasenhuttl sees it too.

 

Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes played the way they knew, not the developed Southampton way under Poch. Koeman did it his way but he brought in the players that worked, Mane, Pelle and Tadic etc. Reed bragged about the Southampton way but that was rubbish. Each manager he signed up didn't suit or buy into the philosophy. Consequently we ended up within two years of flawed recruitment with a team messed about with no style, philosophy or pace.

 

Let's get back to Pace, Press, and high tempo. Then never take on another manager who doesn't fit that. That was Reed's problem, lots of spin but the actions proved otherwise.

 

Boufal is quicker than Redmond.

[St Jim]

It's not just Hughes. Last season we were dead and buried in March but Hughes came in and faced initially top of the table teams and we struggled for points but we did enough to stay up. Credit to him for that. This season we brought in more players. Ings looks a decent signing but he was a no brainer and didn't need a black box to identify because he wanted to come home and besides prove a point after being released as a kid.

 

My feeling is that Les Reed was the main problem. Boufal, Carillo, Elyanoussi, Vestergaard, etc all players that lacked pace. Apart from Long, Redmond we are a very slow team. Buying a cheap lightweight small right back was ridiculous. Apart from the number of crosses that hit nobody because he never looks up I've lost count of the number of goals that are given away on his post as bigger players pull off onto him.

 

Reed seemed to love the bull**** that was generated by the spin doctors, the Southampton way, We march on, the black box etc, how did that work out. Slow players and two managers that were so negative it completely changed how we played. Poor game, 40% possession won, great game 70% possession and lost. trouble was most of the possession was keep ball in the back five.

 

It's a fundamental fact, slow players can't live in the Premier. We even buy a ponderous 6' 6" centre back that can't jump and doesn't dominate in the air. Hughes was let down in the summer. Armstrong was good but didn't need the black box he was well known to most people who keep an eye on Celtic.

 

In future we have to make it a must that players recruited are quick as defenders or attackers and at least in midfield have good acceleration and change of pace and can see a pass. We have too many that ignore the runners and pass sideways and backwards. The criteria has to be players that risk the killer pass, if the ball is lost then swarm all over the opposition in numbers and get it back. That's how Poch played, that was the Southampton way, hopefully that's how Hasenhuttl sees it too.

 

Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes played the way they knew, not the developed Southampton way under Poch. Koeman did it his way but he brought in the players that worked, Mane, Pelle and Tadic etc. Reed bragged about the Southampton way but that was rubbish. Each manager he signed up didn't suit or buy into the philosophy. Consequently we ended up within two years of flawed recruitment with a team messed about with no style, philosophy or pace.

 

Let's get back to Pace, Press, and high tempo. Then never take on another manager who doesn't fit that. That was Reed's problem, lots of spin but the actions proved otherwise.

 

At least he's like by some people

[derry]

Boufal is quicker than Redmond.

 

What, after he's tried to beat the same player for the third time. The goal against WBA was outstanding, the goal against Sunderland was classic but we saw far too much stand around spectating. I often thought it's a good job they don't have pockets in the shorts. For £17m we got nothing like the value out of him, a cameo player. If he had pace he never took on players directly. At least Redmond is taking people on, going at defenders and getting stuck in rather than passing back to the full back. He looks like he has finally got the message, It's a shame his shot was in the middle of the goal allowing De Gea to save. either side it was in the net. Need more shooting like that.

[verlaine1979]

What, after he's tried to beat the same player for the third time. The goal against WBA was outstanding, the goal against Sunderland was classic but we saw far too much stand around spectating. I often thought it's a good job they don't have pockets in the shorts. For £17m we got nothing like the value out of him, a cameo player. If he had pace he never took on players directly. At least Redmond is taking people on, going at defenders and getting stuck in rather than passing back to the full back. He looks like he has finally got the message, It's a shame his shot was in the middle of the goal allowing De Gea to save. either side it was in the net. Need more shooting like that.

 

Eh, this is just a load of cliche-ridden waffle. Both players have deficiencies and neither have really performed as well for the club as was anticipated when they were signed - you only like one better than the other because of his nationality.

[Tony10]

Well done Saints and the Gao family. Thanks so much for not letting me down, which has occasionally happened supporting this great club. Now, if you could get Paul Mitchell as DOF then that would be truly amazing. Could we please hold onto our quality players a little longer, produce talent and keep it longer, improve our recruitment and provide the resources our new manager will need. A great day. Onwards and upwards.

[derry]

Eh, this is just a load of cliche-ridden waffle. Both players have deficiencies and neither have really performed as well for the club as was anticipated when they were signed - you only like one better than the other because of his nationality.

 

What a load of rubbish. I watched every game Boufal played for us and being sent out on loan reflected his usual level of underperformance. Redmond I hated with a vengeance, he was awful and his attitude sucked. This year he is having a go, taking people on and doing his best, Boufal didn't look as though he was ever that bothered. As for nationality, who cares, I don't. As a retired airline captain, I travelled the world and found arseholes and nice people wherever I went.

[tajjuk]

Buying a cheap lightweight small right back was ridiculous. Apart from the number of crosses that hit nobody because he never looks up I've lost count of the number of goals that are given away on his post as bigger players pull off onto him.

 

Er where are all these giant fullbacks? They generally don't exist, a bigger centre-forward pulling onto a smaller full back happens all over the world in pretty much most forms of football. The centre backs should be helping out with that.

 

Cedric has been one of the most consistent fullbacks in the league and IMO a very good buy, he's just horribly out of form along with most of his colleagues, in a badly managed team lacking on confidence.

 

He's never been superb going forward but he's a decent defender, quick, who works hard and like I said until the last 6-9 months or so has been a good PL player.

 

Most middling PL clubs cannot expect to find the kind of complete full backs top clubs have.

 

And hardly any fullbacks in world football are very big, big players are very rarely quick, and are generally used in central positions, shorter players tend to be quicker and used in wider areas.

 

Reed and scouting team has had many fails, but Cedric is not one of them for £4 million he has been a good buy. I reckon the new manager will start getting the best out of him and Bertrand.