Fulham 3-2 Saints - Post match

[bender]

This looks like fast becoming the season where for the first time I see my second team (Brighton) more than my first.

[RedWillie]

I believe if we had a team full of rejected parsnips we would have more chance.

[Vancouver Saint]

Wouldn't do any worse although harsh on Redmond he played ok today certainly a constant source of problems. McCarthy made some good saves as well so no need for Gunn at the moment.

 

Hughes lost that game because of three reasons.

- Playing Austin from the start, he simply cannot lead the line, love his passion but he is an impact sub nothing more. Today he lost the ball time and time again and they scored from two of these occasions. Yoshida was horribly exposed and was sucked into the midfield, allowing Fulham to spread the ball wide and that was that.

- Playing Cedric, he is easily beaten at the far post, every large centre forward knows it and he is targeted every game. Stephens or Bendarek would do better and maybe play Cedric further forward.

- The players are simply not fit enough. At one point Redmond broke from our half having dispossessed a Fulham player, he charged up the wing great opportunity we thought, no Fulham players near him. by the time he reached halfway into the Fulham half he had to stop, not one of our players was anywhere near him and he was forced to pass backwards. Austin should have put in a lung busting run to get in the box.

 

Hughes is responsible for those decisions and it hurt to see Ranairi in their dugout as we could have had him.

 

We have good players Lemina, Holberg, Yoshida, Gabbadini, Redmond, Armstrong, and McCarthy, were all better than their opposite numbers but if you don't have the other 4 players to support them you have a problem.

 

That should be it for Hughes but I hope they have someone decent to replace him and not a stop gap.

 

Great day out, I enjoyed the pub, the walk, and the sailing/rowing.Shame about the footie. Oh well bring on Utd.

 

Good post.

 

Am done with excuses for Hughes. We're already way past the point at which we know what we've got with him. No defence, no attack, no goals, no resilience, no fitness, no confidence, no chance. We need to move quickly to get a change of fortune before Christmas...although I agree with whoever it was who said they'll probably give him the next two games as write-offs - which would be a mistake IMO. We need a regime change.

[Hodgey]

I was there and agree with most. Lemina ad Armstrong were very good, Cedric, Austin and the 2 cbs were very bad. Interesting to see the Redmond quotes - he beat players for fun but had zero output - I’m amazed people still think he is the best thing since sliced bread when he has no ultimate effect. He was as good as Redmond can be today - but that isn’t enough. We’re going down as we are without doubt, I’d bring O’Neil and Keane in. Our squad is average but unlike able and arrogant - I’d hope those two can stop that.

[Dellman]

I was there and agree with most. Lemina ad Armstrong were very good, Cedric, Austin and the 2 cbs were very bad. Interesting to see the Redmond quotes - he beat players for fun but had zero output - I’m amazed people still think he is the best thing since sliced bread when he has no ultimate effect. He was as good as Redmond can be today - but that isn’t enough. We’re going down as we are without doubt, I’d bring O’Neil and Keane in. Our squad is average but unlike able and arrogant - I’d hope those two can stop that.

O'Neil and Keane? What was their record? No wins in eleven and no goals in four? Perfect, just what we need.

[Baird of the land]

https://cottagersconfidential.sbnation.com/2018/11/21/18107077/cottage-talk-view-of-the-opposition-simon-peach-breaks-down-southampton

 

Really amused me listening to Simon Peach's pre-match discussion for fulham.

So many of his points chimed home especially about the useless hoedt & hughes.

Just hope he's right that the loss he predicted will be the end of Hughes

[benjii]

I'm optimistic for next season, we have a lot of top-end championship strikers

 

No, we don't.

[St Chalet]

Ok.

 

Yoshi, Lemina, PEH, Redmond and Armstrong were decent. McCarthy one great save and not much else he could do.

 

Hoedt can do one.

 

Sack the manager now and we have a chance.

[Baird of the land]

Armstrong finally played in his proper position & did well.

Thought their second goal was slightly fortunate as Sessegnon got a very fortunate bounce but our defence didnt react well

Hoedt is maybe Hughes lovechild. Same pass the blame shrug for the first mitrovic goal, when it was his own fault.

[saint77]

Ok.

 

Yoshi, Lemina, PEH, Redmond and Armstrong were decent. McCarthy one great save and not much else he could do.

 

Hoedt can do one.

 

Sack the manager now and we have a chance.

 

Yoshida was dreadful

[Hodgey]

Yes Dellman - I’m thinking of realistic options, were not going to get anyone with a great record now are we ?. I think they could do a job and would realistically accept, anyone we get now would have recent failure - otherwise they’re not touching this job. Maybe we gamble on the arrogance of Hughes ‘never been down’ as he is taking this lot down so that may motivate him ‘ie you’re not being fired no matter what..’ bit of a risk though

[Pamplemousse]

A new manager might get some of those half-season tickets selling... I can't imagine they're particularly popular right now.

[PeteCampbell]

I thought Redmond and Armstrong were decent and basically the only shining light in what was another dark day. Appreciate that Hughes kept us up but its clearly not working. Please not Big Sam.

[Professor]

I thought Redmond and Armstrong were decent and basically the only shining light in what was another dark day. Appreciate that Hughes kept us up but its clearly not working. Please not Big Sam.

I'm inclined to think it's something of a myth, that Hughes kept us up. Unless I've miscalculated, there were 8 league matches in 2017/18 after Hughes became manager with a record of P8 W2 D2 L4 (8 points out of a possible 24). it appears we stayed up because other clubs had worse results than we did.

If there is to be a sacking before a new director of football is appointed, it will be down to Ross Wilson to convince Kruegar of the recommended replacement. The short list is already there for all to see in the betting odds, although maybe there is someone unexpected, and maybe some on the list wouldn't take the job. For me, I'd like to think they will first of all, ask Arsene Wenger if he's prepared to go down market and if not, then look at the others.

[skintsaint]

**** result, still amazed we are not in the bottom 3. Get rid of Hughes, I'd take O'Neill but not Keane as his no2.

[Gingeletiss]

Crap result, and Mr Hughes has to go imo. However, if you look at the match stats, we should of won at a canter, we are in big trouble.

[Norm]

**** result, still amazed we are not in the bottom 3. Get rid of Hughes, I'd take O'Neill but not Keane as his no2.

 

I dislike Keane greatly (World Cup/Ireland//Leg breaker) but if O’Neil is our next manager and wants to bring Keane it has him, I will just have to suck on the Lemon and accept it.

[SKD]

**** result, still amazed we are not in the bottom 3. Get rid of Hughes, I'd take O'Neill but not Keane as his no2.

 

We need someone like Keane in the dressing room. Maybe not him, as he is a complete c**t, but someone who will stick it on our underperforming, lazy, poor attitude squad a player if they’re not giving 100% every day.

[DT]

I dislike Keane greatly (World Cup/Ireland//Leg breaker) but if O’Neil is our next manager and wants to bring Keane it has him, I will just have to suck on the Lemon and accept it.

 

I think we're dreaming if they'd want the job. Who would?

 

 

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[Matthew Le God]

I think we're dreaming if they'd want the job. Who would?

 

 

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I don't particularly want them. But Saints can pay more than the Irish FA were paying them, this Saints squad isn't as bad as some make out and we've just been lacking a competent manager for a long time. If they wanted a Premier League job I doubt they'd turn us down as won't get many better opportunities.

[DT]

I don't particularly want them. But Saints can pay more than the Irish FA were paying them, this Saints squad isn't as bad as some make out and we've just been lacking a competent manager for a long time. If they wanted a Premier League job I doubt they'd turn us down as won't get many better opportunities.

 

I suppose the lure these days is many millions when you're sacked, so why bother trying? Seems to be Hughes' outlook

 

 

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[Chez]

Crap result, and Mr Hughes has to go imo. However, if you look at the match stats, we should of won at a canter, we are in big trouble.

 

you are right. We bossed the game, but when we turn over possession it looks almost inevitable that we will concede. A new manager is important, but bloody hell do we need a CB, RB and some bloody athletes in the side to sure up that back four.

[Chez]

I'm inclined to think it's something of a myth, that Hughes kept us up. Unless I've miscalculated, there were 8 league matches in 2017/18 after Hughes became manager with a record of P8 W2 D2 L4 (8 points out of a possible 24). it appears we stayed up because other clubs had worse results than we did.

absolutely spot on.

[Chez]

I suppose the lure these days is many millions when you're sacked, so why bother trying? Seems to be Hughes' outlook

 

 

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Its not about lack of effort, its lack of ability both on and off the park.

[East Kent Saint]

Defending yesterday was poor , never mind about "high press" what about a bit of pressure / challenging when in our own half ? If we get a new manager let's hope he can sort the defense out , meanwhile what a poor finish by Gabbi , more like a back pass to the keeper !

[Chez]

Defending yesterday was poor , never mind about "high press" what about a bit of pressure / challenging when in our own half ? If we get a new manager let's hope he can sort the defense out , meanwhile what a poor finish by Gabbi , more like a back pass to the keeper !

 

should have absolutely buried it. MOTD didn't show the second Obefemi chance either. I wanted to see if he should have buried that too.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just error after error, unprofessional ones at that. Gabbi missed an easy chance and then put a powder puff attempt at a tackle for their second goal. Him and Cedric should have done anything to stop Sessegnon getting past them. Even foul him, then defend the free kick. Wes should have just put the ball into the stand and then we could have got set and defended the throw.

 

Yoshida was poor, Wes hopeless, I thought PEH was pretty ineffective, Gabbi a passenger, Cedric just Cedric and even the keeper is starting to annoy me now. Don’t know why, but he seems a bit too causal and nice. He should be absolutely hammering his back 4, does he ever rollock anyone? As for Austin, there are no words to describe his “performance “.

 

Lemina played well, as did Armstrong. I thought Redmond did ok, the young lad looked lively, but he’s too raw to expect too much. Apart from getting caught ball watching for their second, I thought Matt T did ok.

 

 

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[saintoaks]

Players, manager can’t keep saying in the lead up to games like Brighton,Fulham, Watford etc that they are must win then not be made accountable when we don’t. Hughes has got to go. Long term approach required by the board, not a lot out there but do like the partnership of Monk and Beats. We will see..

[fanimal]

Interesting piece on MOTD on the role of Mitrovic, holding up play wanting the ball, bringing others in, reminded me of SRL, and GP, why o why have we not bought somenone like that? Baffling and frustrating. As for that third goal, didnt no whether to laugh or cry.

[Saint Pete]

should have absolutely buried it. MOTD didn't show the second Obefemi chance either. I wanted to see if he should have buried that too.

 

Just watched the highlights on the OS. I would say the 2 Obafemi efforts were half chances really. Whereas Gabbiadini has GOT to score that chance in the first half. Really poor from him.

[Chez]

Just watched the highlights on the OS. I would say the 2 Obafemi efforts were half chances really. Whereas Gabbiadini has GOT to score that chance in the first half. Really poor from him.

 

the chance I am referring to wasn't shown on MOTD, so I haven't had the chance to look at it again. Did he not just need to keep it down and it would have gone in? Thought he did well when he came on. Lively.

[John Boy Saint]

Having watched most of it yesterday then, highlights and comment on MOTD, the overriding factor is the levels of fitness are not good enough. There were comments when Hughes was at Barcelona that he was pretty poor at training, whilst I was in the happy camp to give him a go especially as the one thing we looked like we needed was the team getting a kick in the pants and he seems to have the demenor to do that, the niggle in the back of the mind was the Barcelona attitude.

Yesterday when Redmond nicked the ball and was off up the pitch and no bugger went with him was astounding and shocking.

Another observation and this probably also points to a lack of fitness, on more than one occasion Yoshida, who always reads the game well, felt the need to come forward out of defence as Fulham surged forward in the vain hope of pausing them enough for his lacklustre team mates to get back in support. Can’t get up the pitch fast enough to support an attack, can’t get back fast enough to defend.

Everyone knows that to play and maintain a pressing game you have to be damn fit, when Poch was with us Jack Cork said to survive one of his training sessions you need 2 hearts.

As for persisting with Charlie Austin as everyone says he is a passenger, there was one moment when he got the ball, controlled it and laid it off to another player successfully, the fact that I can recall it magnifies just how little he did for 78 minutes. Obafemi might be green but he was more of a threat in his 17 minutes on the pitch, one thing is for certain, when Redmond tore up the pitch on his own, young Obafemi would have been there as an option.

[shurlock]

After yesterday’s performance does anyone think that Gabbi’s best position is on the right?

[Norm]

Has MH gone yet?

[Saint Pete]

the chance I am referring to wasn't shown on MOTD, so I haven't had the chance to look at it again. Did he not just need to keep it down and it would have gone in? Thought he did well when he came on. Lively.

 

Yeah, it was a bouncing ball and he just snatched at it a bit rather than setting himself more to keep it down. Understandable if for such a young player, but as you say he looked lively and I’d like to see how he gets on as a starter if Ings remains out.

[Mr X]

**** result, still amazed we are not in the bottom 3. Get rid of Hughes, I'd take O'Neill but not Keane as his no2.

 

we are in the bottom 3 technically, only out of it on goal difference

[Chez]

Having watched most of it yesterday then, highlights and comment on MOTD, the overriding factor is the levels of fitness are not good enough. There were comments when Hughes was at Barcelona that he was pretty poor at training, whilst I was in the happy camp to give him a go especially as the one thing we looked like we needed was the team getting a kick in the pants and he seems to have the demenor to do that, the niggle in the back of the mind was the Barcelona attitude.

Yesterday when Redmond nicked the ball and was off up the pitch and no bugger went with him was astounding and shocking.

Another observation and this probably also points to a lack of fitness, on more than one occasion Yoshida, who always reads the game well, felt the need to come forward out of defence as Fulham surged forward in the vain hope of pausing them enough for his lacklustre team mates to get back in support. Can’t get up the pitch fast enough to support an attack, can’t get back fast enough to defend.

Everyone knows that to play and maintain a pressing game you have to be damn fit, when Poch was with us Jack Cork said to survive one of his training sessions you need 2 hearts.

As for persisting with Charlie Austin as everyone says he is a passenger, there was one moment when he got the ball, controlled it and laid it off to another player successfully, the fact that I can recall it magnifies just how little he did for 78 minutes. Obafemi might be green but he was more of a threat in his 17 minutes on the pitch, one thing is for certain, when Redmond tore up the pitch on his own, young Obafemi would have been there as an option.

 

We have not adopted a pressing game for years now. Maybe you are right, maybe the managers dont feel the players are fit enough to do that, but more likely they just don't instruct them to do it or the players are sat too deep to try it.

when we go through a poor spell everyone always points to lack of fitness. Our issue is not that, its that we have too many bang average players. A complete lack of quality throughout the whole squad. The Redmond break suggested to me that we didn't have players willing to bust a gut or the desire or maybe the inclination to burst through and score. Or maybe the ones that would normally try to get in the box were standing too deep when the break happened. I was looking for Gabbi to burst through and he didn't.

Edited 25 November, 2018 by Chez

[Chez]

After yesterday’s performance does anyone think that Gabbi’s best position is on the right?

 

Looked quite good when coming inside, but his poor tracking back left us exposed several times. For me he playing up the middle and a winger plays on the wing.

[whelk]

After yesterday’s performance does anyone think that Gabbi’s best position is on the right?

 

Best back in Italy. That shot was hopeless.

[S-Clarke]

I don't rate Gabbi to be honest, quite limited. Would probably look better with a better player around him (although wouldn't most - look at Long...).

 

What a **** time it is to be a fan here by the way. Losing every.single.week, horrendus unlikable group of players, and having to deal with the nation falling in love with Harry ****ing Redknapp. Kill me now.

[Topcat]

Best back in Italy. That shot was hopeless.

It was just a very gentle pass back to the goal keeper. Very kind of him, are they mates?

[Chez]

I’m amazed people still think he is the best thing since sliced bread when he has no ultimate effect. He was as good as Redmond can be today - but that isn’t enough.

 

I have never been Redmond's biggest fan, so feel in a good position to stand up for him. Yesterday he worked hard, tackled back, beating men, and he made things happen. You are right of course that end product is an issue, but he kept the ball and helped us work the ball into attacking positions. That is not to be ignored. We can get worse. A half decent back four and we'd win that game and others. The question I ask is would we have been worse withut him yesterday? A resounding yes. Compare him with Elyounoussi. The latter came on and looked useless. I agree we need better, but sadly he's the best we have...which shows just how far we have fallen.

[Forester]

The pre match experience was as enjoyable as always on the banks of the Thames, remains one of my favourite away days out. And for the majority of the game we looked the better side creating more attacking moves, more chances etc. At the end of the day we should have scored more than two, with Gabbi’s right foot clearly not as reliable as his left.

 

However what is obvious is that scoring twice away from home should always be enough to either draw or win a game. We looked very open defensively every time the counter attacked. If you exclude the Man City game, that hasn’t been a problem recently but it seemed we were intent on defending much higher up the pitch than normal which is commendable but you have to then be much more reactive when ply changes and we simply weren’t.

 

Positives for me were Armstrong, Lamina and Hoj both going forward (albeit tactically see above comments) and Redmond. I thought Austin looked woeful again, both fullbacks were defensive liabilities and the centre backs could not work together as a unit.

 

I have wanted to give Hughes until the halfway mark as a minimum but yesterday was the case study for Bug Sam which many people will hate, but he will deliver clean sheets. We would have won that game yesterday with him, or a similarly organised defensive coach. Painful thing for me is that we had one, and sacked him for finishing eighth and a cup final because of “entertainment”.

 

We need eleven points from these six games to be on track for a point per match. That looks unrealistic and I think the point of departure may be if we fail to win at Cardiff. I would be very sad to see Hughes go as despite the stats he did a great job at the back end of last season given the fixture list nd circumstances of stoppage time goals by opponents. I for one did not enjoy the “you are getting sacked in the morning’ chants by a section of our fans yesterday.

[shurlock]

The pre match experience was as enjoyable as always on the banks of the Thames, remains one of my favourite away days out. And for the majority of the game we looked the better side creating more attacking moves, more chances etc. At the end of the day we should have scored more than two, with Gabbi’s right foot clearly not as reliable as his left.

 

However what is obvious is that scoring twice away from home should always be enough to either draw or win a game. We looked very open defensively every time the counter attacked. If you exclude the Man City game, that hasn’t been a problem recently but it seemed we were intent on defending much higher up the pitch than normal which is commendable but you have to then be much more reactive when ply changes and we simply weren’t.

 

Positives for me were Armstrong, Lamina and Hoj both going forward (albeit tactically see above comments) and Redmond. I thought Austin looked woeful again, both fullbacks were defensive liabilities and the centre backs could not work together as a unit.

 

I have wanted to give Hughes until the halfway mark as a minimum but yesterday was the case study for Bug Sam which many people will hate, but he will deliver clean sheets. We would have won that game yesterday with him, or a similarly organised defensive coach. Painful thing for me is that we had one, and sacked him for finishing eighth and a cup final because of “entertainment”.

 

We need eleven points from these six games to be on track for a point per match. That looks unrealistic and I think the point of departure may be if we fail to win at Cardiff. I would be very sad to see Hughes go as despite the stats he did a great job at the back end of last season given the fixture list nd circumstances of stoppage time goals by opponents. I for one did not enjoy the “you are getting sacked in the morning’ chants by a section of our fans yesterday.

 

Thought Hoj was pretty average. He huffed and puffed but game passed him by in the first half. Was better in the second half but doesn’t have enough quality on the ball.

[S-Clarke]

Thought Hoj was pretty average. He huffed and puffed but game passed him by in the first half. Was better in the second half but doesn’t have enough quality on the ball.

 

Glad I'm not alone in thinking that. I think he's pretty average full stop, kind of epitomises where we've gone in the last 3 years. All he does is lose games.

But at least he talks up to the fans well.

[Chez]

Glad I'm not alone in thinking that. I think he's pretty average full stop, kind of epitomises where we've gone in the last 3 years. All he does is lose games.

But at least he talks up to the fans well.

 

works hard, wins the ball back, then overhits the crossfield ball straight into the stand. There is good and bad from him in equal measure in the course of one passage of play. Can't fault his commitment, but as you say, overall average ad 11 average players equals trouble at this level. I honestly struggle to see how we will survive.

[cloggy saint]

we are in the bottom 3 technically, only out of it on goal difference

 

So not in the bottom 3 then.

[Lord Duckhunter]

but do like the partnership of Monk and Beats.

 

 

I love Sunday lunchtime drinking sessions, although you appear to have started earlier than I do.

 

 

 

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[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

I'm inclined to think it's something of a myth, that Hughes kept us up. Unless I've miscalculated, there were 8 league matches in 2017/18 after Hughes became manager with a record of P8 W2 D2 L4 (8 points out of a possible 24). it appears we stayed up because other clubs had worse results than we did.

If there is to be a sacking before a new director of football is appointed, it will be down to Ross Wilson to convince Kruegar of the recommended replacement. The short list is already there for all to see in the betting odds, although maybe there is someone unexpected, and maybe some on the list wouldn't take the job. For me, I'd like to think they will first of all, ask Arsene Wenger if he's prepared to go down market and if not, then look at the others.

Really! Ross Wilson's P*ss Poor Player recruitment has a lot to do, with the team being so poor. So anyone he has a say in, will if it follows his other appointments. BE P*SS POOR!

[Red]

Has MH gone yet?

 

No, and the longer we delay the greater the certainty of the drop. Club supposedly don't want to make the same mistake as last time - well Hughes should have been sacked at half time yesterday. Rome/Fire/Fiddling words come to mind for some reason!