CB Fry Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 @SouthamptonFC’s Tweet: It's nice to have a topic we can all agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 I thought it was the flag of Costa Rica to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 It's pretty hard to disagree with honouring people who were killed because they're trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 More trans pundits please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 First Trannie player? Fernando Torres always had a look about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 is there a flag for everything these days ? what's the flag like for middle aged men with beer guts who have run out of beer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 is there a flag for everything these days ? what's the flag like for middle aged men with beer guts who have run out of beer ? That is gammon coloured It’s a chance for a bit of virtue signalling and everyone to show how lovely they are by liking and retweeting how wonderful it is. You can say what you like about Kruger but at least he remembers trannies get killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 Personally I'm pleased that the club have finally taken this step but annoyed that it's taken them so long. I've been lobbying them for ages to fly the anti violence against transgenders flag. I always had a sneaking suspicion that the club were in fact closet transgender violence supporters so its a relief to know that that clearly isn't the case. Thank goodness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 What an obscure thing to commemorate at a football club. Why this and not people killed by shark attacks, agent orange and rabies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 First Trannie player? Fernando Torres always had a look about him Nasri and Firmino look like lesbians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 What an obscure thing to commemorate at a football club. Why this and not people killed by shark attacks, agent orange and rabies?It's because the club is secretly bigoted against agent orange victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluto Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 Just a PR stunt to 'look good'.... there is a 'day' for anything these days, yesterday it was 'world toilet day' Whats it got to do with football ? Kick politics out of football ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 It's pretty hard to disagree with honouring people who were killed because they're trans. True. But let's not be naive about it, it is a political move, which to me always comes across as fairly shallow and paying hollow platitudes to the PC brigade. Will Saints honour Christians killed around the world because they follow their religion? I very much doubt it - not huge mileage in that for the self righteous self-congratulatory slap on the back. Or Muslims around the world? After all the poor Uyghurs and Rohingya have had tens of thousand killed. Probably not as there seems a overly selective process involved. Out of interest, and its not a competition to see who has had the most killed - far from it, how many Trans people have been murdered? It's all well and good putting up a flag to remember those that have been killed, but it would be nice to know some actual details. Not giving details and just putting up a flag seems disingenuous to the plight of the trans community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 Just a PR stunt to 'look good'.... there is a 'day' for anything these days, yesterday it was 'world toilet day' [emoji38] Whats it got to do with football ? Kick politics out of football !I heard that someone forgot to flush and the club stuck a little cocktail flag with the club crest on it for world toilet day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 Nice touch (PR stunt) but it won’t stop me waiting outside the gay bars of Southampton on the hunt for a ‘tranny’ to bash up in a drug and larger fuelled rage after we lose Saturday. On a serious note, it’s about time we stop with these nonsense days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 True. But let's not be naive about it, it is a political move, which to me always comes across as fairly shallow and paying hollow platitudes to the PC brigade. Will Saints honour Christians killed around the world because they follow their religion? I very much doubt it - not huge mileage in that for the self righteous self-congratulatory slap on the back. Or Muslims around the world? After all the poor Uyghurs and Rohingya have had tens of thousand killed. Probably not as there seems a overly selective process involved. Out of interest, and its not a competition to see who has had the most killed - far from it, how many Trans people have been murdered? It's all well and good putting up a flag to remember those that have been killed, but it would be nice to know some actual details. Not giving details and just putting up a flag seems disingenuous to the plight of the trans community.According to Wikipedia it looks like about one unlawful transgender death a year in the UK. As someone has pointed out on twitter, more people are killed by bees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 20 November, 2018 Share Posted 20 November, 2018 According to Wikipedia it looks like about one unlawful transgender death a year in the UK. As someone has pointed out on twitter, more people are killed by bees... That's next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 I think some people are missing the point by saying things like why don't we commemorate people who have died by a bee sting. No Saints fan has died from a sting as far as I am aware, but some of our fanbase will be transgender and some part of the wider LGBT community. Despite the fact that some people will say that everything is fine and there are no issues in football or the stadium for people in this community, the fact is there are. Even scrolling down this thread you can see loosely harmful language like 'trannies' which shows a distinct lack of awareness of who transgender people are. Do you feel this is creating a welcoming atmosphere from people from all works of life? That is why there is no day to commemorate the middle aged beer drinking man, because everything about match day and football in general has been made to make him feel welcome (acknowledging the **** poor quality of the beer though). The LGBT community is also severely underrepresented on the field. Some will also quit grassroots football because of the lack of awareness from teammates, coaches and ultimately failing to fit in with dominant football culture. Some are still hiding in the closet. Do you think it is just a coincidence that there are no openly gay footballers in England? Last week Gareth Thomas was beaten up in a hate crime. Yes a six foot, three inches tall sportsman with massive biceps. That is why. And it is a problem even though some will try and bury the issue. Some want some statistics so here they are. Crime against LGBT people in this country is going up. Specific to the trans community a study last year showed: - One in eight trans employees (12 per cent) have been physically attacked by a colleague or customer in the last year - Half of trans people (51 per cent) have hidden their identity at work for fear of discrimination - A quarter of trans people (25 per cent) have experienced homelessness These are issues that will impacts our fan base! That is why it is good to raise the flag and why it is relevant to our club! If our club want to fly a flag and let transgender people know they are acknowledged and welcome at St Mary's, then I support that, and is an easy thing for other people to support as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Agreed. We definitely need more transgender footballers to increase representation in the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 (edited) Hold on the flag wasn't to acknowledge and welcome transgender people it was to honour those killed by anti transgender violence which on the surface seems to be an incredibly small number of people in the UK. Additionally, by simply flying a pointless flag it just comes off as tokenism. I'd actually support the club donating to a mental health charity in the name of transgender supporters but flying a flag and boasting about it on twitter just seems foolish. Oh and its not really relevant to the discussion on transgender awareness day but since you brought it up, the openly gay friends I have really resent being lumped in with other gay people and transgenders with the lgbt thing. They are individuals with differing opinions and disagree with transgender people on a whole range of issues such as the definition of a woman for instance. Edited 21 November, 2018 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Hold on the flag wasn't to acknowledge and welcome transgender people it was to honour those killed by anti transgender violence. It is transgender day of remembrance. By acknowledging the day they are not stealing its ultimate purpose as it is linked to wider movement. But by flying it they send a positive signal to the transgender community. I don't understand what is so difficult to support about that? If you are against why not try and debate my post properly then throwing in false arguments about representative on the field (which i referred to as wider LGBT community anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 (edited) It is transgender day of remembrance. By acknowledging the day they are not stealing its ultimate purpose as it is linked to wider movement. But by flying it they send a positive signal to the transgender community. I don't understand what is so difficult to support about that? If you are against why not try and debate my post properly then throwing in false arguments about representative on the field (which i referred to as wider LGBT community anyway)I've added to my post above but the twitter post from the club makes clear that the flag is designed to acknowledge those who have been killed due to anti-transgender violence. If the flag is not for that but is in fact to support transgender people in general then that is perhaps more understandable even if I still think it's a bit pointless. Maybe the club should be clearer with their communication. I don't see why there is a particular need for Southampton football club to send a positive message aimed specifically at transgender people. I haven't seen anything from the club in the past that suggests it is in anyway anti transgender so I don't know who this message is aimed at. To your knowledge are there hordes of transgender Southampton supporters that were labouring under some misapprehension that the club were hostile to them before this flag was erected? If there is evidence of bigotry towards transgender people or indeed anyone really at sfc then it needs robustly challenging but with the admittedly limited exposure I have had to transgender people they haven't appeared to me to be pathetic wallflower types that need a flag to feel safe at a venue even if that's how the media likes to portray them by focusing on the insane ones. Edited 21 November, 2018 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 I've added to my post above but the twitter post from the club makes clear that the flag is designed to acknowledge those who have been killed due to anti-transgender violence. If the flag is not for that but is in fact to support transgender people in general then that is perhaps more understandable even if I still think it's a bit pointless. Maybe the club should be clearer with their communication. I don't see why there is a particular need for Southampton football club to send a positive message aimed specifically at transgender people. I haven't seen anything from the club in the past that suggests it is in anyway anti transgender so I don't know who this message is aimed at. To your knowledge are there hordes of transgender Southampton supporters that were labouring under some misapprehension that the club were hostile to them before this flag was erected? I’m sure it’s just part of a wider worldwide campaign to educate people about the issues faced by members of the transgender community up to and including hate-based homicides, and perhaps encourage a bit of empathy. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Hold on the flag wasn't to acknowledge and welcome transgender people it was to honour those killed by anti transgender violence which on the surface seems to be an incredibly small number of people in the UK. Additionally, by simply flying a pointless flag it just comes off as tokenism. I'd actually support the club donating to a mental health charity in the name of transgender supporters but flying a flag and boasting about it on twitter just seems foolish. Oh and its not really relevant to the discussion on transgender awareness day but since you brought it up, the openly gay friends I have really resent being lumped in with other gay people and transgenders with the lgbt thing. They are individuals with differing opinions and disagree with transgender people on a whole range of issues such as the definition of a woman for instance. Many gay people also enjoy the solidarity of a common group that represents many different minorities that collectively raise a greater voice. But if they don't want to identify as LGBT that is okay as well, no one is forcing them. I've got a feeling though you are making this up slightly as what you say doesn't add up with the actions the community does. It is all about celebrity the individual and the individual voices within them. There are many different voices and opinions within the community and do not pretend to have one collective voice. Do not let a couple of loud people on social media speak for a community. For example I would hate people to think that the loudest here represent Saints fans. Your argument about the mental health charity shows roughly where you stand on this issue. Why not focus on the cause of why many suffer from mental health issues which is acceptance from society. But you are treating it as a mental health issue. I bet you would still have an issue as it would be wasted on a 'minority' of people. So what is your actual problem? You seem angry at the term LGBT. I may even use LGBTQIA+ just to wind you up. My sister is trans by the way in case you wanted to know why I am so vested. She grew up with me playing football and loving the sport. Got to a decent level here in Australia as well. Had a season ticket to see our local team the Western Sydney Wanderers. Arsenal fan sadly which made the 03 Cup Final doubly difficult. She doesn't go to matches anymore though. She's pretty tough skinned as well. But it was too difficult. We went to the UK as well. Same issues. She loves going to matches and roaring behind her team, one of the few Arsenal fans that does I reckon. She recently started taking up playing again after a number of years out of the game. Had to join a league that specifically welcomed her. These are all issues a significant minority of people face. And it effects our club. So again what is your ****ing problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Well that's an unsurprisingly hostile response, suggesting that I was lying and then asking me what my problem is for voicing an opinion--with some swearing added in for good measure. Sadly that's indicative of the type of response you get from certain factions that can't countenance a difference of opinion on this subject. I won't push you further though as it's obviously something you're sensitive about with your sister being transgender. It's just unfortunate that you'd immediately jump to inferences of bigotry on my part simply because I suggested there were more effective things the club could do than waving a flag. It's also undeniable that transgenderism brings with it a mental health component so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Well that's an unsurprisingly hostile response, suggesting that I was lying and then asking me what my problem is for voicing an opinion--with some swearing added in for good measure. Sadly that's indicative of the type of response you get from certain factions that can't countenance a difference of opinion on this subject. I won't push you further though as it's obviously something you're sensitive about with your sister being transgender. It's just unfortunate that you'd immediately jump to inferences of bigotry on my part simply because I suggested there were more effective things the club could do than waving a flag. It's also undeniable that transgenderism brings with it a mental health component so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue there. Out of interest why are you seemingly so obsessed with these issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 I’m sure it’s just part of a wider worldwide campaign to educate people about the issues faced by members of the transgender community up to and including hate-based homicides, and perhaps encourage a bit of empathy. Nothing wrong with that.I can't speak for others but personally all I've heard about since the advent of social media has been the hurdles and obstacles of transgender people. The media at large has also been celebrating them for years now. I'd be very surprised if the general public didn't have a fairly good grasp of transgender issues. I don't think flying a flag or actually highlighting these things is going to encourage empathy in the sort of brainless morons that think it's acceptable to beat someone up or kill someone because they happen to be transgender. There's definitely better actions the club could have taken if they did genuinely care about issues and weren't just doing it to look progressive on social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Well that's an unsurprisingly hostile response, suggesting that I was lying and then asking me what my problem is for voicing an opinion--with some swearing added in for good measure. Sadly that's indicative of the type of response you get from certain factions that can't countenance a difference of opinion on this subject. I won't push you further though as it's obviously something you're sensitive about with your sister being transgender. It's just unfortunate that you'd immediately jump to inferences of bigotry on my part simply because I suggested there were more effective things the club could do than waving a flag. It's also undeniable that transgenderism brings with it a mental health component so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue there. Good on you Sydney Saint. Sadly, I fear you are wasting your time with some of these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 is there a flag for everything these days ? what's the flag like for middle aged men with beer guts who have run out of beer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Well that's an unsurprisingly hostile response, suggesting that I was lying and then asking me what my problem is for voicing an opinion--with some swearing added in for good measure. Sadly that's indicative of the type of response you get from certain factions that can't countenance a difference of opinion on this subject. I won't push you further though as it's obviously something you're sensitive about with your sister being transgender. It's just unfortunate that you'd immediately jump to inferences of bigotry on my part simply because I suggested there were more effective things the club could do than waving a flag. It's also undeniable that transgenderism brings with it a mental health component so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue there. I responded to your original posts, not your edited posts where I am happy to concede you are used a more gentle tone, clearly you felt that you had failed to articulate or explain yourself which is fair enough. And I will thank you for at least doing that which you did not have to. But still on this thread you have sarcastically mocked the day, compared it to world toilet day, and seemingly the only argument you have is that you have personally not seen example of issues to transgender people in football, which I actually countered in my first post before you even had a chance to bring it up because I knew you would. So when you say I jumped to inferences of bigotry, it's because there were inferences of bigotry. I'm sorry you have taken offence to be insinuating about lying about having gay friends who don't like the LGBT movement, I shouldn't question that. I would like to note that this " because I suggested there were more effective things the club could do than waving a flag." is clearly rubbish. You had ample opportunity to do this before I responded for the first time. You only made one suggestion, after my original post was made when trying to defend why it shouldn't be flagged. If you had been a bit more proactive with suggestions, then there would be no need to insinuate bigotry, but until that point all you had done is effectively mock. I think the most frustrating thing here is that you seem to talk on transgender behalf despite, by your own admission, having very little links to transgender people. I have given you the stats about rising violence against transgender people, all you have given my is anecdotal evidence based on non existent trans people that you don't know. I see if your next response you claim that the public must have a good idea of these issues. This is not evidence and the stats and stories firmly suggest otherwise. I am more than happy to debate these issues. But base it on logic, stats, legitimate reasoning and well thought out processes. Otherwise how else can someone not infer some level of bigotry if you are going to dismiss the idea of a flag being raised without any solid reasoning behind you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 It is an action that can do some help and good for some people in our community, while doing no harm to others. I just don't even know why this is a debate...And yes Hypo I agree more can be done. But if we can't even do a basic thing like this without some people up in arms then that makes it more difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Good on you Sydney Saint. Sadly, I fear you are wasting your time with some of these people. Thank you. I fear I am wasting my time as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 (edited) Just to be clear I didn't mock the day, I mocked the clubs response to the day because rather like a lot of things the club does it pays a lot of lip service to things but in reality does pretty much the bare minimum which suggests it really doesn't care all that much and is doing it for PR reasons. If it comes out subsequently that the club have donated a bunch of money for charity or something then I will retract what I said and apologise but on the face of it it looks like another cynical pr move on the clubs part. It seems you felt that I was mocking the idea of raising awareness of transgender discrimination and violence which I explicitly was not doing. Just thought that was worth clearing up. With regards to your other points I don't think it's helpful to get into a big disagreement as I already said. Edited 21 November, 2018 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 It is an action that can do some help and good for some people in our community, while doing no harm to others. I just don't even know why this is a debate...And yes Hypo I agree more can be done. But if we can't even do a basic thing like this without some people up in arms then that makes it more difficult Don’t worry it’s his usual ruse to feign concern by claiming there are more effective interventions available. That may or may not be true but it is ultimately irrelevant as one intervention does not come at the expense of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 (edited) Just to be clear I didn't mock the day, I mocked the clubs response to the day because rather like a lot of things the club does it pays a lot of lip service to things but in reality does pretty much the bare minimum which suggests it really doesn't care all that much and is doing it for PR reasons. If it comes out subsequently that the club have donated a bunch of money towards this or something the I will retract what I said and apologise but on the face of it it looks like another cynical pr move on the clubs part. It seems you felt that I was mocking the idea of raising awareness of transgender discrimination and violence which I explicitly was not doing. Just thought that was worth clearing up. With regards to your other points I don't think it's helpful to get into a big disagreement as I already said. Rather than getting triggered by the club’s action and making lots of assumptions, why don’t you pause and take a deep breath and simply listen to Sydney Saint. I know virtually nothing about the trans community but if Sydney Saint says these interventions can do some help and good, that’s good enough for me. Edited 21 November, 2018 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 It is an action that can do some help and good for some people in our community, while doing no harm to others. I just don't even know why this is a debate...And yes Hypo I agree more can be done. But if we can't even do a basic thing like this without some people up in arms then that makes it more difficult Yep, agree. It ultimately comes back to DuncanRG's point at the top of the thread, too. Thanks for the above posting too. Genuinely didn't (and realistically still don't) know too much about the trans community and issues relating to trans violence, so it was actually quite interesting to hear from someone in your own position. I'm sorry to hear that your sister has been made to feel unwelcome by some too, but sadly not too surprising at all, especially in the current climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 It is an action that can do some help and good for some people in our community, while doing no harm to others. I just don't even know why this is a debate...And yes Hypo I agree more can be done. But if we can't even do a basic thing like this without some people up in arms then that makes it more difficult I think that the gay community has made real progress in the last couple of decades but the ridicule and worse still aimed at members of the trans community is definitely worth highlighting, if it helps to improve attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 (edited) Bizarre times we live in Edited 21 November, 2018 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Nasri and Firmino look like lesbians. Steve Bruce is a lesbian dinner lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Rather than getting triggered by the club’s action and making lots of assumptions, why don’t you pause and take a deep breath and simply listen to Sydney Saint. I know virtually nothing about the trans community but if Sydney Saint says these interventions can do some help and good, that’s good enough for me. So if one person says it then it speaks for the community? I actually do know a trans person and bit like hypos points doesn’t always want to lumped in a group. He is actually fine with me and others ‘dead-naming’ him too as understands people wont easily adjust to a new name. I really admired his courage as the natural lads instinct is to joke but he got that too. Although he got far more respect than mocking. You can’t get sanctimonious about attitudes and takes time to become accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Clearly this is virtue signalling nonsense, let's go back to being a football club and not loony political PR machine. Definitely a future job at the council for whoever at the club does all this, they love all this stuff for oppressed minorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 So if one person says it then it speaks for the community? I actually do know a trans person and bit like hypos points doesn’t always want to lumped in a group. He is actually fine with me and others ‘dead-naming’ him too as understands people wont easily adjust to a new name. I really admired his courage as the natural lads instinct is to joke but he got that too. Although he got far more respect than mocking. You can’t get sanctimonious about attitudes and takes time to become accepted. I think the laughable thing is that you and Hydo and proclaiming that I am speaking on behalf of all trans people when I have never claimed that. Honestly it is great that your friend feels accepted. Genuinely. And great that you have accepted him for who he is. And of course, mixing up names and pronouns is fine and part of the learning process if there already exists a general level of acceptance. But do not pretend it is the same for all trans people. I have listed the stats that show progress if anything is going backwards which is sad, and therefore proactive steps needs to be done to counter it. If anyone wants to privide anything more than just anecdotal evidence that things are progressing positively then i will be happy to read it and understand it. But this is all very relevant for football. I'm not going to say I speak for all trans people and have never claimed that. But it does impact some. And for the general struggles and violence against trans people there are much better articulate sources than me. But in a football context- people must remember that anyone can be transgender regardless of their race or class (obvious I know but some may need it pointed out). And for most of us, we all fell in love with football at a very young age, long before we really knew who we are. In fact, football and your club must be one of the earliest badges of identity. The usual case is that someone in the family (often dad or grandad) takes you to a few games and you fall in love with the game and choose your club. And so you keep going. But it must be really hard for some people that as they begin to find out more about themselves, that they lose acceptance in the one place they were previously accepted, as some will feel, like my sister but she is hardly alone. Especially when they are often struggling for full acceptance in a world that is closing down against minorities. And with my sister, going to matches, it opened my eyes to just some of the small little things that people say that can make you feel uncomfortable. It's like death by a thousand cuts. I was at a game (with a friend not my sister) and the person behind me, big muscular guy, screamed something about tackling like a pooof, and spat on the ground in disgust. Now there is nothing about that comment that is said in any positive light, purely derogative. I know to some that is such a minor thing. And it is in a way. Because obviously it is not aimed at anyone in the crowd And some will say harden up, stop being a snowflake. But imagine hearing that all the time? Not just that example, there are far more, some worse, some better. But when you are already questioning your acceptance in society, or worse, your society becoming a less and less safe place (as statistically shown). And rather than suggest that maybe people should be considerate of those that might be around them, some people want the minority group to get over it. But would that person say the same thing if they knew that someone who is trans was standing next to them? If the answer is no then it probably means it shouldn't be said right? So I am still wondering why anyone would have an issue with this. As said it may not impact all trans people, but it will impact some life-long saints fans. We often pride ourselves of being a community, family club. This is looking out for our own, and whilst it is done in a small way and there is lots more to be done, if it says to any trans saints fan that St Mary's respects trans people, then what is the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 I'm not going to post anything more on the matter. And I am glad that some people have learnt something which in its way means the flag has done its job. I do wonder how many people upset by the club doing something like this are also going to throw the accusation that it is everyone else that overreacts and need to harden up and get over it? But their minds aren't going to be changed. By the value that this debate even needs to be had, over a flag for a day, shows that in football there is still quite some way for trans people to go which is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 21 November, 2018 Share Posted 21 November, 2018 Frank Maloney, enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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