Saints 1 Watford 1 - Match & Reactions

[Sheaf Saint]

but the officials told the players (and Hughes I assume) that it was ruled out because Yoshida touched the ball...

 

Oh, I didn't realise that. In which case, they clearly got it wrong.

[Bad Wolf]

So having seen a few replays of the disallowed goal, I think I can see why the officials made the decision they did, even if I disagree with it...

 

It was a poor, mis-hit shot that any keeper worth his salt would have saved. If you watch Foster, he seems to stumble and delay before finally deciding to dive for it and missing. You could make the argument that, although he was static and didn't try to play the ball, Yoshida being where he was in an offside position influenced Foster's judgement and prevented him from making what really should have been a routine save. Therefore he was interfering with play.

 

It's the only justification I can think of for it.

 

I don't really understand how you can stand in the 6 year box while a shot is being taken and NOT be interfering with play tbh.

[Shroppie]

He has to be sacked surely

I doubt it. We've got no-one capable of appointing a replacement.

 

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[trousers]

[skintsaint]

but the officials told the players (and Hughes I assume) that it was ruled out because Yoshida touched the ball...

 

****** if that was the case Yoshida would have been claiming it...

[5string]

I vote we stick with Gabi all season & get him a decent top class partner in January, the others are a waste of space, maybe someone he's already played with in Italy etc

 

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I like the idea of Ings & Gabbi, with Obafemi doing the job Long used to do (but scoring!).

[Shropshire Saint]

Hopefully the reaction to the ref's mistakes in this match this will be the catalyst for the introduction of VAR in the Premier League. The irony is that Saints will not be there to benefit (or otherwise) from it.

[S-Clarke]

[Shroppie]

Genius. I feel just a little bit less angry now. But not much.

 

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[Nordic Saint]

Can't really fault our team for effort. They appeared to play to the limits of their ability although they tired towards the end. The referee was terrible but if he had got the major decisions right, in spot of the Austin goal, we might well have lost, as Watford would have had a penalty, but more importantly, Bertrand would have got a 2nd yellow and we'd have been reduced to ten men. Even with all 11 out there, we were getting overrun by Watford in the final ten minutes. My reaction when Ward-Prowse comes on as a sub is, now we're going to let the other team's midfield take control of the game, as that's what usually seems to happen when he appears. He is a player who divides opinion and I know he has some fans on here but with the impact he has on games, I'd rather see him come on for the opposition than for us. Gabbiadini and Yoshida both had very good games and should start regularly.

[waylander]

Hopefully the reaction to the ref's mistakes in this match this will be the catalyst for the introduction of VAR in the Premier League. The irony is that Saints will not be there to benefit (or otherwise) from it.

 

If there had been VAR we would have been awarded the disallowed goal, but Watford would have had a penalty and Bertie a second yellow.

[Mr X]

I like the idea of Ings & Gabbi, with Obafemi doing the job Long used to do (but scoring!).

Could we trust Hughes to pick & stick with them though?

 

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[davefoggy]

Hopefully the reaction to the ref's mistakes in this match this will be the catalyst for the introduction of VAR in the Premier League. The irony is that Saints will not be there to benefit (or otherwise) from it.

 

Don't need VAR. we need the officials to open their eyes and do their jobs properly. And it would help if they weren't bent

[shurlock]

Don't need VAR. we need the officials to open their eyes and do their jobs properly. And it would help if they weren't bent

 

They’re not bent pal. They may be subject to subtle unconscious biases (as we all are) but they’re not on the take. And yes everyone makes mistakes. VAR can’t come soon enough except for the six-fingered Luddites.

[benjii]

If there had been VAR we would have been awarded the disallowed goal, but Watford would have had a penalty and Bertie a second yellow.

 

No, we would have had a free kick for handball.

[benjii]

I don't really understand how you can stand in the 6 year box while a shot is being taken and NOT be interfering with play tbh.

 

Really, you can't understand that? Really?

 

 

Srsly?

[Manuel]

At least we scored a goal, in broad daylight. Two really.

 

Things are on the turn.

[captainchris]

Not long back from the game.

Thought gabbi was MOM by a country mile

Please please play him in the same role for the next few games.

Frustrating not to get 3 points I know but more positives from today than we’ve had in a while.

Oh.. lazy decision from Hughes to bring on Austin rather than Obefami.

Meant the successful tactic of high press at times in the 1st half was no longer available due to Austin’s lack of mobility.

 

 

 

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This is a very precise analysis ...

Hughes is very poor at personnel choices. They are invariably wrong...

This symptom will not improve because Hughes proves every game that he cannot make the right calls. Therefore he needs to go.

It’s takem him half a blinking season to realise Gabbi is one of our best players - that in its self is gross incompetence as well as the other blind spot in Yoshida bizarrely not being picked for half a season.

Hughes is just not capable....

[Saint Albert]

So having seen a few replays of the disallowed goal, I think I can see why the officials made the decision they did, even if I disagree with it...

 

It was a poor, mis-hit shot that any keeper worth his salt would have saved. If you watch Foster, he seems to stumble and delay before finally deciding to dive for it and missing. You could make the argument that, although he was static and didn't try to play the ball, Yoshida being where he was in an offside position influenced Foster's judgement and prevented him from making what really should have been a routine save. Therefore he was interfering with play.

 

It's the only justification I can think of for it.

 

From the replays the ball deflected off the diving defender, causing the flight of the ball to change. This is probably what confused Foster. The linesman potentially saw the change in the flight of the ball, and assumed it came off Yoshi.

[Topcat]

This is a very precise analysis ...

Hughes is very poor at personnel choices. They are invariably wrong...

This symptom will not improve because Hughes proves every game that he cannot make the right calls. Therefore he needs to go.

It’s takem him half a blinking season to realise Gabbi is one of our best players - that in its self is gross incompetence as well as the other blind spot in Yoshida bizarrely not being picked for half a season.

Hughes is just not capable....

Not sure that Reed may have had a hand in discouraging the selection of Yoshida and Gabbi. I agree with you on the Austin substitution.

[derry]

From the replays the ball deflected off the diving defender, causing the flight of the ball to change. This is probably what confused Foster. The linesman potentially saw the change in the flight of the ball, and assumed it came off Yoshi.

 

I saw the deflection but couldn't understand why, even if Yoshida had headed the ball in, which he didn't, he couldn't be offside as it was a defender who touched the ball after Austin hit the shot. If the ruling was the goal was disallowed because Yoshida, in an offside position touched the ball it wouldn't matter because an opponent touched the ball after Austin hit the shot.

 

If a Watford player hypothetically say played a back pass to a Saints player in an offside position and he smashed it past the keeper it would be a goal. The officials obviously missed that deflection, then the linesman in a worse position than the referee was allowed to influence an inexperienced referee in only his fourth Premier game to disallow a good goal on the grounds that Yoshida touched the ball which the linesman couldn't possibly have seen as the ball was a yard his side of Yoshida.

 

they made a total mess up of the whole situation and should be dropped from the Premier official's roster.

[Lighthouse]

I saw the deflection but couldn't understand why, even if Yoshida had headed the ball in, which he didn't, he couldn't be offside as it was a defender who touched the ball after Austin hit the shot. If the ruling was the goal was disallowed because Yoshida, in an offside position touched the ball it wouldn't matter because an opponent touched the ball after Austin hit the shot.

 

If a Watford player hypothetically say played a back pass to a Saints player in an offside position and he smashed it past the keeper it would be a goal. The officials obviously missed that deflection, then the linesman in a worse position than the referee was allowed to influence an inexperienced referee in only his fourth Premier game to disallow a good goal on the grounds that Yoshida touched the ball which the linesman couldn't possibly have seen as the ball was a yard his side of Yoshida.

 

they made a total mess up of the whole situation and should be dropped from the Premier official's roster.

 

That's not the rule, it has to be a deliberate attempt to play the ball by the defender.

[derry]

That's not the rule, it has to be a deliberate attempt to play the ball by the defender.

 

Maybe but he dived in and the ball came off him. He deliberately tried to play the ball and block Austin. It wasn't accidental that the ball hit him.

[John Boy Saint]

In the midst of all of it Yoshida knew he was offside and had the presence of mind to be very certain that he did not touch the ball after it made contact with the Watford player.

 

This weekend has been peppered with rum decisions, Cardiff winner the goal scorer came from offside, Mitrovic for Fulham has a good goal chalked off incorrectly, last weekend Wolves have a perfectly good goal rubbed out for offside when the guy was played on by 2 Spurs players. These aren’t just ‘one of them things’ mistakes these are multi million pound mistakes, especially when you are scrapping at the bottom of the table.

[benjii]

Every weekend there is a major incorrect decision (red card, goal, penalty) in at least half the matches. It's pathetic.

[Useful Idiot]

There's absolutely no way we need VAR.

 

It would be absolutely awful to reduce the number of bad decisions made by the officials.

 

We should be petitioning for more visually-challenged referees to take control of top-level matches instead, preferably those without the capacity to see at all, it would make the games far more interesting.

[LGTL]

There's absolutely no way we need VAR.

 

It would be absolutely awful to reduce the number of bad decisions made by the officials.

 

We should be petitioning for more visually-challenged referees to take control of top-level matches instead, preferably those without the capacity to see at all, it would make the games far more interesting.

 

Blind officials certainly couldn't do any worse.

 

They shouldn't be professional, it's a joke. Completely stealing a living most of them.

[Dark Munster]

Don't need VAR. we need the officials to open their eyes and do their jobs properly. And it would help if they weren't bent

And we don't need seat belts. We just need everyone to drive perfectly.

[Jonnyboy]

Anyone got a link to the highlights?

[the saint in winchester]

From the replays the ball deflected off the diving defender, causing the flight of the ball to change. This is probably what confused Foster. The linesman potentially saw the change in the flight of the ball, and assumed it came off Yoshi.

This. There was a flick off the defender's boot. Yoshi flexed his body away from the ball so as not to take any pace off the ball. Disappointing the linesman couldn't differentiate between the defender's boot and Yoshi's chest. But then, as we all agree, Bertrand got nothing of the ball with that scissor tackle.

[the saint in winchester]

In the midst of all of it Yoshida knew he was offside and had the presence of mind to be very certain that he did not touch the ball after it made contact with the Watford player.

 

This weekend has been peppered with rum decisions, Cardiff winner the goal scorer came from offside, Mitrovic for Fulham has a good goal chalked off incorrectly, last weekend Wolves have a perfectly good goal rubbed out for offside when the guy was played on by 2 Spurs players. These aren’t just ‘one of them things’ mistakes these are multi million pound mistakes, especially when you are scrapping at the bottom of the table.

 

That's right. You tell yourself 'you win some, you lose some'. But it's galling at the time, and that game may decide a man's job, a team's finish etc.

[fish fingers]

A season long ban for Austin would be fair in this instance.

[Spitz]

Anyone got a link to the highlights?

 

https://southamptonfc.com/news/2018-11-11/90-in-90-highlights-southampton-watford-premier-league-1819

[saints-cris]

Another disappointing result, very much the norm. How many times can we concede late on, it's mind boggling.

 

Aside from the controversy, the second half performance was pretty poor. Game was far too open from my perspective, we just don't seem to be able to shut games out. Sides like Hudds/Brighton can actually trust their defence to not concede when they hold a lead by and large, we simply aren't able to.

 

It seems to have got a bit lost in the controversy that we still had the game in our hands, we were still ahead. All we had to do was not concede and the defending for their goal was SO bad. JWP could clear it, fluffs it. No one rushed out to stop the shot, felt like he had an eternity to get it away. And then Cedric, the absolute fairy turns his back and it flicks off him. We're in a scrap, we should be throwing our bodies on the line but that was pathetic.

 

Same old same old. Only encouragement was the 11 picked was nearer to what I'd like to see. If we don't win at Fulham then we're truly stuffed.

[PeteCampbell]

Armstrong proving to be a costly purchase, missed a sitter v Bournemouth and another last night to kill the game.

 

Team needs a shake up and we need to start with the Manager.

 

I thought Armstrong was overall very good though and the goals will come with him as he gets more starts

[Super_Uwe]

Austin's interview post match was fun to watch, I fully get why he's frustrated. He's a striker who desperately wants to score and hasn't had a great start to the season. Guess he may end up regretting his outburst as I can't imagine the FA will let him get away with it, but we will see.

 

However I'm no way buying his and Hughes' argument that 2-0 would have meant the game was all over. We haven't had the ability to see out a home game comfortably for a long, long time now. Yes it would have given us a much better chance, but there would still have been that unease in the ground.

[Shroppie]

Another disappointing result, very much the norm. How many times can we concede late on, it's mind boggling.

 

Aside from the controversy, the second half performance was pretty poor. Game was far too open from my perspective, we just don't seem to be able to shut games out. Sides like Hudds/Brighton can actually trust their defence to not concede when they hold a lead by and large, we simply aren't able to.

 

It seems to have got a bit lost in the controversy that we still had the game in our hands, we were still ahead. All we had to do was not concede and the defending for their goal was SO bad. JWP could clear it, fluffs it. No one rushed out to stop the shot, felt like he had an eternity to get it away. And then Cedric, the absolute fairy turns his back and it flicks off him. We're in a scrap, we should be throwing our bodies on the line but that was pathetic.

 

Same old same old. Only encouragement was the 11 picked was nearer to what I'd like to see. If we don't win at Fulham then we're truly stuffed.

I agree with most of that.

 

Certainly JWP could have shown a bit more composure with his clearance that was blocked, but if he'd taken a touch and lost the ball, we'd be saying why didn't he just hoof it?

 

And yes, Cedric was pathetic in his "block". Why wasn't he closing down the player and spreading himself?

 

One final point that seems to have gone unnoticed in the lead-up to the Bertrand non-penalty is that there was more than a hint of handball as Chalobah first took the ball forward. It was right in front of me and there was quite a big shout from the crowd.

 

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[saints-cris]

I agree with most of that.

 

Certainly JWP could have shown a bit more composure with his clearance that was blocked, but if he'd taken a touch and lost the ball, we'd be saying why didn't he just hoof it?

 

And yes, Cedric was pathetic in his "block". Why wasn't he closing down the player and spreading himself?

 

One final point that seems to have gone unnoticed in the lead-up to the Bertrand non-penalty is that there was more than a hint of handball as Chalobah first took the ball forward. It was right in front of me and there was quite a big shout from the crowd.

 

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I think back to when we played Leeds in our promotion season, we threw everything we could to stop them scoring. This lot don't. John Terry for all his faults as a human being, would do whatever it takes to get something in the way of the ball. These guys are not getting out to stop shots, and turning their back when they do. Take pride in a clean sheet and maybe we might start getting more of them. Jokers.

[Saint86]

This is a very precise analysis ...

Hughes is very poor at personnel choices. They are invariably wrong...

This symptom will not improve because Hughes proves every game that he cannot make the right calls. Therefore he needs to go.

It’s takem him half a blinking season to realise Gabbi is one of our best players - that in its self is gross incompetence as well as the other blind spot in Yoshida bizarrely not being picked for half a season.

Hughes is just not capable....

 

 

Literally. Austin scores. But you two are slating Hughes for bringing him on, and one of you actually using that substitution as a reason for hammer Hughes' decision making. I mean seriously, you cant find better examples?

Edited 12 November, 2018 by Saint86

[Cabbage_Face]

Just watched highlights.

 

Austin "goal" wtf was that all about?

Watford "pen" - Soft

[Sheaf Saint]

Literally. Austin scores. But you two are slating Hughes for bringing him on, and one of you actually using that substitution as a reason for hammer Hughes' decision making. I mean seriously, you cant find better examples?

 

1. It was a crap effort that only went in because the deflection off the defender caught Foster out.

 

2. His overall contribution was pathetic. We lost all our forward presence when he came on because he is so ineffective at pressing, and Watford looked the better team after that. Given how crap Austin has been lately, it would have made more sense to bring on a fresh and hungry Michael Obafemi.

[Micky]

I think back to when we played Leeds in our promotion season, we threw everything we could to stop them scoring. This lot don't. John Terry for all his faults as a human being, would do whatever it takes to get something in the way of the ball. These guys are not getting out to stop shots, and turning their back when they do. Take pride in a clean sheet and maybe we might start getting more of them. Jokers.

 

If you watch the goal your can see that Gabbi (who was excellent yesterday, both up front and in his defensive work) was busting a gut trying to get across to block the shot. Had Cedric shown the same desire to get closer we might have prevented the goal. Agree though - it's about having pride in keeping a clean sheet, no matter how many you might score. Three or four seasons ago I seem to remember we had the best defensive record in EUROPE after about 10 games, we had defenders who hated conceding and took it personally. As you say - players need to have more pride.

 

On a slightly different note, well done to the crowd who stood and gave the members of HM armed forces a standing ovation as they walked around the pitch after the 2 minutes silence. Good to see so many people showing appreciation and trying to shake hands with them. Excellent touch.

Edited 12 November, 2018 by Micky

[Saints1976]

I think we've hit a new when Mourinho has just described City's drubbing of us as City being in a friendly.

[nta786]

If you watch the goal your can see that Gabbi (who was excellent yesterday, both up front and in his defensive work) was busting a gut trying to get across to block the shot. Had Cedric shown the same desire to get closer we might have prevented the goal. Agree though - it's about having pride in keeping a clean sheet, no matter how may you might score. Three or four seasons ago I seem to remember we had the best defensive record in EUROPE after about 10 games, we had defenders who hated conceding and took it personally. As you say - players need to have more pride.

 

On a slightly different note, well done to the crowd who stood and gave the members of HM armed forces a standing ovation as they walked around the pitch after the 2 minutes silence. Good to see so many people showing appreciation and trying to shake hands with them. Excellent touch.

 

with Forster in goal did we not have this record of not conceding like in 7 games? think we lost it when Fabregas scored for Chelsea with that cross-turned-goal... but you were correct, we really did take it to face when we conceded, now when we concede heads drop and all momentum is lost.

[lkirkpa]

I think we've hit a new when Mourinho has just described City's drubbing of us as City being in a friendly.

 

After 12 league games, Man U and Saints have both conceded 21 goals. We're all aware how poor our back four are so how poor must Man U's be when you take into account that they have De Gea behind them. Mourinho is indulging in his favourite pastime of trying to find any excuse for his own failings.

[Jonnyboy]

Another disappointing result, very much the norm. How many times can we concede late on, it's mind boggling.

 

Aside from the controversy, the second half performance was pretty poor. Game was far too open from my perspective, we just don't seem to be able to shut games out. Sides like Hudds/Brighton can actually trust their defence to not concede when they hold a lead by and large, we simply aren't able to.

 

It seems to have got a bit lost in the controversy that we still had the game in our hands, we were still ahead. All we had to do was not concede and the defending for their goal was SO bad. JWP could clear it, fluffs it. No one rushed out to stop the shot, felt like he had an eternity to get it away. And then Cedric, the absolute fairy turns his back and it flicks off him. We're in a scrap, we should be throwing our bodies on the line but that was pathetic.

 

Same old same old. Only encouragement was the 11 picked was nearer to what I'd like to see. If we don't win at Fulham then we're truly stuffed.

 

I agree mostly there but Brighton and Huddersfield both surrendered leads on the weekend.

[jamesfp1]

If their penalty had been awarded, Austin would never have scored his "goal" because the circumstances leading to it wouldn't have existed. There's a scientific way to explain that but I can't be bothered. Something to do with the butterfly effect.

[nta786]

If their penalty had been awarded, Austin would never have scored his "goal" because the circumstances leading to it wouldn't have existed. There's a scientific way to explain that but I can't be bothered. Something to do with the butterfly effect.

 

chaos theory

[doddisalegend]

chaos theory

 

 

Isn't that a description of our defence. It certainly resembles chaos when the opposition attack..

[John Boy Saint]

So with the raft of offences from the FA read out on the sports news this evening, like Pep commenting about the ref pre match, and dopey Sturridge thinking he was cleverer than the system.........has Charlie gotten away with it, or are they giving him Tuesday in the Spotlight without the riff raff cluttering the headlines.