Ability or Attitude of the players - what’s worse?

[SKD]

What’s the bigger problem? Attitude for me.

 

We’ve some talented players (Bertrand, Lemina, Cedric, Gabbi) spring to mind who just clearly don’t want to be at the club and that’s showing on the pitch with their minimal effort and couldn’t give a sh!t attitude.

 

We’re cryibg out for a ‘Roy Keane’ type character, who’ll take no **** and make sure everyone gives 100% every day, in the dressing room. We not had a true leader since Fonte went AWOL

[Cabbage_Face]

It's the management of the players. Hughes doesn't know how to do it, he seems to annoys players that have talent but "lazy" attitudes, rather than embracing them and making them the focal point. No wonder Tadic went.

 

Look at Arnie at West Ham, Hughes ****ed him off and he is a very very talented footballer. Hughes is the 2nd problem after the board.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Hughes has had this problem at all his clubs - he's not liked by players. This has been levelled at him throughout his career.

[Cabbage_Face]

Hughes is a dinosaur. Whole Boufal situation winds me up, I know he is marmite to fans, but he has talent and Hughes, yet again, couldn't manage a player like him correctly.

 

His love in for horrendous defenders is what cost him at Stoke and he is doing again with us (Hoedt).

 

Should never have gave him a job. But whatever, Les knows best.

[nta786]

Hughes has had this problem at all his clubs - he's not liked by players. This has been levelled at him throughout his career.

 

but why is that?

does he force the players overtime in training? because if i remember correctly Poch did double sessions when he was with us and I assume that he might still do at Spurs.

or is it that the players think he is tactically a joke?

in terms of being straight forward and saying it how it is, I quite enjoy Hughes interviews if I am honest- but it just seems like he doesn't apply what he says or rectify the issues that are clearly obvious.

[mrfahaji]

It's the management of the players. Hughes doesn't know how to do it, he seems to annoys players that have talent but "lazy" attitudes, rather than embracing them and making them the focal point. No wonder Tadic went.

 

Look at Arnie at West Ham, Hughes ****ed him off and he is a very very talented footballer. Hughes is the 2nd problem after the board.

 

Except Tadic looked better under Hughes than he had done for a long time (and is a big miss). And also at the end of last season the players looked like they DID respect him and were playing for him.

[Cabbage_Face]

Except Tadic looked better under Hughes than he had done for a long time (and is a big miss). And also at the end of last season the players looked like they DID respect him and were playing for him.

 

Always a immediate change under a new manager, and the previous manager was inept.

[benjii]

but why is that?

does he force the players overtime in training? because if i remember correctly Poch did double sessions when he was with us and I assume that he might still do at Spurs.

or is it that the players think he is tactically a joke?

in terms of being straight forward and saying it how it is, I quite enjoy Hughes interviews if I am honest- but it just seems like he doesn't apply what he says or rectify the issues that are clearly obvious.

 

Think it's just that he's a bellend.

[danjosaint]

By all accounts hes very unapproachable and has a back seat at training, also heard training is very easy, which would explain why we look so unfit , Hoedt also said Hughes defensive training was pretty poor

[Unbelievable Jeff]

but why is that?

does he force the players overtime in training? because if i remember correctly Poch did double sessions when he was with us and I assume that he might still do at Spurs.

or is it that the players think he is tactically a joke?

in terms of being straight forward and saying it how it is, I quite enjoy Hughes interviews if I am honest- but it just seems like he doesn't apply what he says or rectify the issues that are clearly obvious.

 

No, it's cos the bloke is an unapproachable arrogant ****. He hardly does training sessions.

[doddisalegend]

By all accounts hes very unapproachable and has a back seat at training, also heard training is very easy, which would explain why we look so unfit , Hoedt also said Hughes defensive training was pretty poor

 

 

Your last line gives an insight into the players mentality as well. There has been a culture of players passing the buck to the manger the last few seasons starting with Puel.

 

Now that's not to say the managers don't shoulder some of the blame but the players need to take a long hard look at themselves.

 

Quite often they seem to struggle with the basics of football things that are drilled into every lad who has ever kicked a ball in his youth.

 

Three different managers in three seasons and we are still seeing players making the same crappy mistakes over and over.

 

These well paid professional players not Sunday league kick about lads. They should be able to make a 10 yard pass, know when clearing into row Z is the best course of action, get goal side of opposition player at set pieces or get a shot on target without needing weeks of coaching.

[Micky]

One hopes it's the attitude. That can be kicked out of them.

[ErwinK1961]

Your last line gives an insight into the players mentality as well. There has been a culture of players passing the buck to the manger the last few seasons starting with Puel.

 

Now that's not to say the managers don't shoulder some of the blame but the players need to take a long hard look at themselves.

 

Quite often they seem to struggle with the basics of football things that are drilled into every lad who has ever kicked a ball in his youth.

 

Three different managers in three seasons and we are still seeing players making the same crappy mistakes over and over.

 

These well paid professional players not Sunday league kick about lads. They should be able to make a 10 yard pass, know when clearing into row Z is the best course of action, get goal side of opposition player at set pieces or get a shot on target without needing weeks of coaching.

 

Agree with this. This is three seasons in a row we've had players going through the motions, not giving it everything and generally just being a bit sh*t.

 

Whilst all three managers no doubt had/have their faults, for me the buck stops with the players.

 

It's been said that Hughes is unapproachable and takes a back seat at training... I'm fairly sure Puel/Pellegrino were approachable and did get involved on the training pitch - didn't make the blindest bit of difference though did it.

 

Doesn't help that there's not really any likeable ones left (PEH & Ings aside) - and as for Hoedt saying Hughes' defensive coaching is poor.... who the f*ck is he kidding! You can't polish a turd Wesley, and you are one of the biggest festering stumps I've seen.

[supersonic]

Attitude.

 

I could never fault a player who wasn't good enough but who gave 100% every match.

 

What I can fault is when players have the ability but can't be arsed to put in the effort

[Useful Idiot]

I think player mentality is a big part of the problem. Mentally fragile and collectively unable to deal with pressure.

 

They also seem to react more slowly than the opposition. Whether that's seeing a pass, putting in a tackle or simply closing a player down, the team dithers about instead of being decisive.

[S-Clarke]

I think player mentality is a big part of the problem. Mentally fragile and collectively unable to deal with pressure.

 

They also seem to react more slowly than the opposition. Whether that's seeing a pass, putting in a tackle or simply closing a player down, the team dithers about instead of being decisive.

 

It's not just the team that dithers, it's the entire club. That's what our identity is these days, the ditherers.

[Lighthouse]

The attitude and general atmosphere of the whole club is rotten; there are players there with obvious talent.

 

Gabbi, Lemina, Hojbjerg, Bertrand, McC, Ings, Cédric, Romeu, Vestegaard and Yoshida all have the ability to be competing for Europa League places if managed correctly. Even other players I’m less convinced about, like Hoedt, Armstrong and Elmo have fr more talent than we are managing to extract.

 

You only have to look at the repeating patterns of our goals to see we have a psychological problem. Whenever we play a big club we just completely hide whilst the game is actually there to be fought over. As soon as we go 2-0 down in 25 minutes, there’s almost a relief that it’s over and we can start passing it around a bit, now that the big scary men have got what they came for.

 

Then there are the stoppage time goals. It was 4 in 8 games before we let one in against Liverpool and 2 against Man City, don’t know what tally we’re up to now. It’s as if they’ve already checked out mentally and just plod through the motions, thinking about what playlist they’re going to put on their Beats by Dr Dre on the bus home.

[GGalpin]

The ones with the ability often have the attitude problem, and the ones who come across with the right attitude generally aren't good enough to be in the starting XI.

[Pamplemousse]

Hughes has had this problem at all his clubs - he's not liked by players. This has been levelled at him throughout his career.

 

Why do you have to turn every thread into an anti-Hughes one? You don't like him, we get it.

[Bad Wolf]

Attitude. We have some VERY good players but half of them look shot of confidence and the other half look like they just couldn't give a sh1t.

[Manuel]

A bit harsh on Cedric. Always thought he puts the required effort in, he just has a few shortcomings.

 

I've seen Bertrand appear like he doesn't give a sh*t - worst when under Puel if you ask me.

 

I think Lemina's style appears a bit lacklustre but I think his mind's ok.

 

Mane had the worst attitude of anyone in a Saints shirt once his head had been turned. We really had no option but to sell, imo.

[LGTL]

Lets look at Austin. Bricklayer, Sunday league player originally who got his big chance, made a fortune, spends more time worrying about horses, allegedly sniffs his namesake at every available opportunity, wonders around the pitch like a great big lump. Gives it the biggun, seen as a "character" and gives some top quality "bantz"- exactly the sort of bellend you'd put on his arse if you had to work with him. I mean imagine working with a bloke like Charlie Austin.

 

He has neither ability or attitude, and the same could be said for a few.

[beatlesaint]

Hughes has a problem with flair players, even in his playing days. When he joined Saints he rarely, if ever passed to MLT, and that’s a fact, I remember it quite clearly

[kyle04]

I think it's a fundamental lack of confidence throughout the team, borne out of 1 1/4 seasons of getting stuffed most games. The players have little belief in the tactics or each other it seems. Our attempt at the high press v City was a shambles, no cohesion, no leaders on the pitch. Based on this season if some of our players are waiting for the call from a bigger club they're dreaming. If MH is a remote figure on the training ground one must assume there's very little man management going on in general, which is the difference between a good manager and a mediocrity which Hughes clearly is.

Also the fitness levels are not what they should be, which above all else, in inexcusable.

So we have a team of unmotivated, poorly organized, unfit players.

It's little wonder many fans are becoming apathetic.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Why do you have to turn every thread into an anti-Hughes one? You don't like him, we get it.

 

Because people like yourself are such chumps you can't see the wood for the trees. I have to drum it home or clueless fans like yourself will continue noshing him off.

[Saint IQ]

What’s the bigger problem? Attitude for me.

 

We’ve some talented players (Bertrand, Lemina, Cedric, Gabbi) spring to mind who just clearly don’t want to be at the club and that’s showing on the pitch with their minimal effort and couldn’t give a sh!t attitude.

 

We’re cryibg out for a ‘Roy Keane’ type character, who’ll take no **** and make sure everyone gives 100% every day, in the dressing room. We not had a true leader since Fonte went AWOL

 

Attitude and set up from the manager

 

Why can't we just play like Leeds do at the moment?

 

Employ a manager that sets us up to play with maximum effort the whole 90 minutes if a player doesn't do it he doesn't make the squad

 

Until then I won't be going to the games.

[IronCitySaint]

Having seen the continuing decline under several successive managers I'm not really sure that the squad has as much talent as some like to think. In fact this squad seems to be totally lacking in talent judging by the fact that they can't seem to pass, shoot, defend or find space to receive a pass. This is the most dismal, depressing bunch of players I can remember. Some may have a bit of talent but rarely put it on display, but whether that is due to tactics, lack of fitness of general uselessness of others around them it is difficult to say. Also, I'm not sure that they necessarily have a bad attitude. There is some evidence that they are trying, but are just not good enough.

 

When relegated from the Premier League the last time the club had accumulated a bunch of average players all with very similar personalities; all good lads but mostly quiet and unassuming and definitely lacking in leadership qualities. That **** HR recognised this as a problem and did bring in some personalities, but they were unfortunately hopeless footballers at the same time. For me, the exact same thing has happened again. In the past, people inside the club have discussed how the 'legendary' black box picks players on whether they 'fit' the characteristics of the club as well as on playing ability. Much as last time, that has now led to an abundance of 'good lads' who probably all get on well but are not likely to have much leadership in the dressing room or on the pitch. It needs some different and stronger personalities in the dressing room who are prepared to lead and perhaps call out bad performances and bad attitudes. After each defeat I expect our lads go into the dressing room, put on their headphones and move onto the next thing. Everyone in the club from top to bottom seem too comfortable with failure and mediocrity. Something or someone needs to get in there and shake it up. Unfortunately, we all know that is not going to happen to we just continue to limp on.

[DuncanRG]

It's confidence and collective mentality. We've seen all these players play better than they are right now.

[Ultimatt]

Ability. Most of our players didn't succeed at previous clubs either. We lack the attacking ability to break teams down, and when we do we miss our shots. We have no experience/organisation in the back and get sliced open with ease.

[Micky]

It's confidence and collective mentality. We've seen all these players play better than they are right now.

I hope this is correct, because that is nothing that a few wins wouldn't fix.

 

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[ally_uk]

Mentality we have a bunch of wet tarts for players who lack any belief. You go to any match and watch the opposition score the first goal, do you see a desire,passion and fire to take it to opponents and make an actual game of things....

 

No we crumble like a bunch of wet towels, no one has a clue what to do it's like the players become a bunch of rabbits caught in headlights. As a unit we cannot deffend, create or attack effectively.

 

The Manager is clueless sack this clown now and actually get somebody who can get a team organised.....

[Patrick Bateman]

Hughes is a dinosaur. Whole Boufal situation winds me up, I know he is marmite to fans, but he has talent and Hughes, yet again, couldn't manage a player like him correctly.

 

His love in for horrendous defenders is what cost him at Stoke and he is doing again with us (Hoedt).

 

Should never have gave him a job. But whatever, Les knows best.

 

Boufal, who has scored 1 goal for Celta Vigo and barely made an impact? Subbed off in all matches he HAS played and not featured in others. I don't think we can blame Hughes for him, I think he's just a c**t that Saints shouldn't have purchased.

[DuncanRG]

I hope this is correct, because that is nothing that a few wins wouldn't fix.

 

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It runs deeper than that, unfortunately.

[Dangermouth]

Because people like yourself are such chumps you can't see the wood for the trees. I have to drum it home or clueless fans like yourself will continue noshing him off.

 

That's unfair. I've argued with the grapefruit a lot but to be fair to him he has said he has had enough of Hughes and has been pretty critical of him and the club recently. I think you've missed a few posts or not read them properly.

[suewhistle]

Because people like yourself are such chumps you can't see the wood for the trees. I have to drum it home or clueless fans like yourself will continue noshing him off.

 

Does being an unpleasant, patronising **** come naturally to you or did you go on a training course?

[StrangelyBrown]

Having seen the continuing decline under several successive managers I'm not really sure that the squad has as much talent as some like to think. In fact this squad seems to be totally lacking in talent judging by the fact that they can't seem to pass, shoot, defend or find space to receive a pass. This is the most dismal, depressing bunch of players I can remember. Some may have a bit of talent but rarely put it on display, but whether that is due to tactics, lack of fitness of general uselessness of others around them it is difficult to say. Also, I'm not sure that they necessarily have a bad attitude. There is some evidence that they are trying, but are just not good enough.

 

When relegated from the Premier League the last time the club had accumulated a bunch of average players all with very similar personalities; all good lads but mostly quiet and unassuming and definitely lacking in leadership qualities. That **** HR recognised this as a problem and did bring in some personalities, but they were unfortunately hopeless footballers at the same time. For me, the exact same thing has happened again. In the past, people inside the club have discussed how the 'legendary' black box picks players on whether they 'fit' the characteristics of the club as well as on playing ability. Much as last time, that has now led to an abundance of 'good lads' who probably all get on well but are not likely to have much leadership in the dressing room or on the pitch. It needs some different and stronger personalities in the dressing room who are prepared to lead and perhaps call out bad performances and bad attitudes. After each defeat I expect our lads go into the dressing room, put on their headphones and move onto the next thing. Everyone in the club from top to bottom seem too comfortable with failure and mediocrity. Something or someone needs to get in there and shake it up. Unfortunately, we all know that is not going to happen to we just continue to limp on.

I disagree entirely about talent - you can't draw any conclusions. Puel was a decent manager, but his style of football was dreadful and he got mostly decent results out of this team. Mopo was hopelessly out of his depth so you can't judge the capability of the team as quite clearly the players didn't understand what the manager was trying to do. Hughes again is a hopeless manager (in the modern game) and clearly hasn't a clue how to win a game of football.

 

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[rooney]

I think strong leadership on the pitch/in the dressing room would be the key to keep us up but it would probably only help us to be a mid table club at best. The majority of our players lack the quality or leadership we have seen in the recent past and the recruitment has been appalling. The present incumbents do not appear to understand how to either work the black box or understand its readings. Three seasons of mediocrity must indicate a change at the top rather than a change of manager, so both ability and attitude can be harnessed from the information we have, in the correct way.

[doddisalegend]

I disagree entirely about talent - you can't draw any conclusions. Puel was a decent manager, but his style of football was dreadful and he got mostly decent results out of this team. Mopo was hopelessly out of his depth so you can't judge the capability of the team as quite clearly the players didn't understand what the manager was trying to do. Hughes again is a hopeless manager (in the modern game) and clearly hasn't a clue how to win a game of football.

 

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I think when you've watched two seasons of the current crop of players struggle with the basics like getting shots on target, picking up runners from midfield, completing a 10 yard pass, staying goal side of your man when defending or putting in an effective cross you can make assumptions about the players talent.

 

We aren't talking about tactics or formations or team selection, the things a manger I responsible for, but just footballing basics that PL footballers, most who have grown up in academies, should really be able to do most of the time.

[Neef]

The players have ability. McCarthy, Bertrand, Vestergaard, Hoj, Romeu, Lemina, Mo, Ings - even Soares and Armstrong. I think that's why so many of us are disappointed with the state of things. With the players that we have, we should be doing far better than 5 wins in 41 games. Managers have clearly been a problem and the quality of manager has dipped since Pochettino and Koeman.

 

But more than that I think we do lack leaders. Neville was on Sky Sports a few weeks back talking about the amount of leaders the United side's he played in had. If it wasn't Keane, it could have been Irwin or Schlemiel or Staam. Of course we're not at all close to that level. But when you look back at the 15/16 team when we finished 6th there were leaders and strong characters around that squad: Fonte, VVD, Pelle, Kelvin, Bertrand, Forster - even Wanyama, Mane and Tadic seemed to have strong characters. This squad sorely lacks that.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Does being an unpleasant, patronising **** come naturally to you or did you go on a training course?

 

Cry me a ****ing river Sue.

[Pamplemousse]

Because people like yourself are such chumps you can't see the wood for the trees. I have to drum it home or clueless fans like yourself will continue noshing him off.

 

Please quote my posts where I have been 'noshing him off'.

 

Or do I have to prove you wrong again?

[StrangelyBrown]

I think when you've watched two seasons of the current crop of players struggle with the basics like getting shots on target, picking up runners from midfield, completing a 10 yard pass, staying goal side of your man when defending or putting in an effective cross you can make assumptions about the players talent.

 

We aren't talking about tactics or formations or team selection, the things a manger I responsible for, but just footballing basics that PL footballers, most who have grown up in academies, should really be able to do most of the time.

Players don't suddenly forget how to do the basics - very few of our players lack technical ability (long is clearly an exception). Unfortunately players can become unfit, lack sharpness, struggle to understand their positions or the positions of those around them, be mentally weak, ... All of these things stem from poor coaching and ask of them are things I've seen constantly over the last two years.

 

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[Cabrone]

Attitude - but that's down to those that are running the show. The club exudes a lack of ambition and that seeps all the way into the dressing room.

[ChiefScummer]

We are unfit. Plain and simple. Knackered after the first half. Compare our training footage to those of better teams and there seems to be a difference in the lack of intensity.

[Manuel]

We are unfit. Plain and simple. Knackered after the first half. Compare our training footage to those of better teams and there seems to be a difference in the lack of intensity.

What annoys me the most, and surely the easiest aspect to put right? If we can't compete is terms of skill with those in the top tier, at least we should be able to run them ragged!

 

Bring back the Southampton Press.

[ChiefScummer]

What annoys me the most, and surely the easiest aspect to put right? If we can't compete is terms of skill with those in the top tier, at least we should be able to run them ragged!

 

Bring back the Southampton Press.

 

Not sure if its the last couple of managers that are to blame. We seemed fit enough under puel. Sure we didn't score much towards the latter half of that season but we didn't concede a shed load either. Maybe it's the staff. Maybe it's the pish poor appointments we've had in charge but if I was Hughes I'd be doing extra drills because we simply aren't good enough to compete. Poor first half's (maybe trying to save energy?) and too many injury time goals conceded. Our players need to be put through the gauntlet more in training. It looks too easy. And then the clubs twitter shows our strikers comfortably scoring goals with zero pressure than are probably the 38th attempt that day. If the players kick up a fuss about intensive drills my heart will centainly not bleed for the lazy shytes.

[Lighthouse]

Not sure if its the last couple of managers that are to blame. We seemed fit enough under puel. Sure we didn't score much towards the latter half of that season but we didn't concede a shed load either. Maybe it's the staff. Maybe it's the pish poor appointments we've had in charge but if I was Hughes I'd be doing extra drills because we simply aren't good enough to compete. Poor first half's (maybe trying to save energy?) and too many injury time goals conceded. Our players need to be put through the gauntlet more in training. It looks too easy. And then the clubs twitter shows our strikers comfortably scoring goals with zero pressure than are probably the 38th attempt that day. If the players kick up a fuss about intensive drills my heart will centainly not bleed for the lazy shytes.

 

I think our problems largely started from how we played under Puel. Right from the word go we seemed to play with zero intensity or ambition. Our relatively good defence was helped largely by just sitting back and not being interested in pressuring the opposition. Those 0-0s against Burnley, Newcastle and Bournemouth are no different to the Puel's performance's against Bournemouth, Hull and Be'er Sheva.