Signings over the age of 30

[Super_Uwe]

Saints FB posted about one of the late 90s games where Trond Egil Soltvedt scored the winner against Liverpool.

 

Which got me thinking - when was the last time we actually signed a player over the age of 30 as a first team regular?

 

The only one I can think of since our return to the Premier League is Boruc.

 

Perhaps something for us to work on? No issue with building a youthful side, but maybe one or two more experienced players coming in could help in our current predicament?

[Dellman]

You mean back to the McMenemy style? Don't think it would work these days. They would be exhausted and played out.Avoid old lags, we've enough of those on the management circuit and it doesn't work.

[Green]

With our high tempo all action style these days they wouldn’t fit in with the gruelling fitness work we see evidenced in the exciting performances where we’re all go for 90 minutes plus whatever the ref allows.

 

As we only look to sell players at a profit it would seem there isn’t as much value in the 30 something in terms of a re-sale.

[The Cat]

Steven Davis seems to have been 30 something for ever. Does that count?

[Topcat]

Players in our squad over 30 are unable to hold their place and probably should have been replaced for younger and better players.

 

Shane Long 32 in Jan

Steve Davis 31 in Jan

Yoshida 30

Charlie Austin 29 with recurring fitness problems

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't think it's necessarily players over 30 the team needs, it's players with leadership experience; a Cahill for example would add a huge amount of skill and presence to the team and is someone the other players would look up to

[Super_Uwe]

I don't want the club signing players on their last legs looking for a final pay day.

 

I just feel that's part of the transfer market where we might actually be able to do some business.

 

Fonte for example had his best days for us once he hit 30. Lambert arguably as well, seeing as he didn't debut for England until he was 32.

 

I get the idea of buying younger players so that they can potentially be sold on at a profit. It has worked well on the whole, but if we can pick up a few bargains then why not?

[shurlock]

I don't think it's necessarily players over 30 the team needs, it's players with leadership experience; a Cahill for example would add a huge amount of skill and presence to the team and is someone the other players would look up to

 

Agree.

[SaintAndy14]

Players in our squad over 30 are unable to hold their place and probably should have been replaced for younger and better players.

 

Shane Long 32 in Jan

Steve Davis 31 in Jan

Yoshida 30

Charlie Austin 29 with recurring fitness problems

 

Davis is 34 in Jan.

 

There's something in that, though. Our squad is crying out for leadership/experience as we have few leaders in the squad. Look at how we go to pieces whenever we go in front, or lose our nerve towards the end of a match. When Bertrand is Captain material, it's clear that leadership options are lacking.

 

Many players get better with age and don't peak until 30+. Somebody like Murray at Brighton, for example. Or Deeney, who has now got himself into shape and is leading his Watford side well.

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't want the club signing players on their last legs looking for a final pay day.

 

I just feel that's part of the transfer market where we might actually be able to do some business.

 

Fonte for example had his best days for us once he hit 30. Lambert arguably as well, seeing as he didn't debut for England until he was 32.

 

I get the idea of buying younger players so that they can potentially be sold on at a profit. It has worked well on the whole, but if we can pick up a few bargains then why not?

 

So you would have said no to Jimmy Case, Alan Ball and various 'lesser' old pros like Venison and Beresford who helped keep the club up? There are loads of examples of older pros who Saints have signed to come in as leaders and help the younger players, it was the old "Southampton way" and the club should probably look to do that. The team is crying out for leadership.

 

Again, someone like Cahill would be ideal. Who cares if he's after a last decent contract? The club can still build up other players to sell.

[sandwichsaint]

I don't think it's necessarily players over 30 the team needs, it's players with leadership experience; a Cahill for example would add a huge amount of skill and presence to the team and is someone the other players would look up to

 

Cahill is 32:mcinnes:, did you mean signing a 27-28 year-old of similar experience?

[StrangelyBrown]

Is this a call to turn into West ham and spunk money on players who used to be good 3 years ago....

 

At least we have a manager who has form for that sort of transfer strategy... Not that it worked for him

 

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[Saint IQ]

If we signed Cahill he would be one of the first names on the teamsheet

[Patrick Bateman]

Cahill is 32:mcinnes:, did you mean signing a 27-28 year-old of similar experience?

 

I know he is. Read what I wrote. The original post was about signing players over 30, we have those (i.e. Davis, Long), but what we don't have is a leader - Cahill was an example that fits in the Venn diagram for both brackets; a proper leader who is only 27 probably wouldn't be affordable for Saints.

[StrangelyBrown]

I find it odd that there is a suggestion that you need to be 30+ to be a leader. While experience helps, leadership is a matter of character and the fundamental problem is that we haven't signed anyone with any leadership qualities to replace those who have left.

 

Signing a 32 year old is not going to guarantee leadership quality, but what it does guarantee is a diminishing return on investment.

 

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[Fan The Flames]

I find it odd that there is a suggestion that you need to be 30+ to be a leader. While experience helps, leadership is a matter of character and the fundamental problem is that we haven't signed anyone with any leadership qualities to replace those who have left.

 

Signing a 32 year old is not going to guarantee leadership quality, but what it does guarantee is a diminishing return on investment.

 

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No but a leader who is over 30 shouldn't be overlooked, that's not that difficult to understand.

[Ultimatt]

We need more Stuart Taylors. I'm not exactly sure what it is he contributes but i've no doubt it's good.

 

Leaders don't have to be over 30. There's young guys that exhibit the qualities you want like Hojbjerg. Some older ex-leaders can also turn into bellends like Fonte angling for a move. Age is just a number and we can recruit people with the right attitude at any age. The other, probably more important, characteristic of a good leader is ability. They need to be good to be respected imo. That's where guys like Hojbjerg and JWP fall at the moment whereas a guy like VVD didn't have as good an attitude but became a leader through skill. We don't have any players left that have both the attitude and ability to be leaders.

[StrangelyBrown]

No but a leader who is over 30 shouldn't be overlooked, that's not that difficult to understand.

That's perfectly easy to understand, but isn't what is being suggested - the suggestion is that players over 30 are somehow better leaders, which is complete nonsense. Thid is the sort of short term thinking that leads to a massive waste of money (e.g. West ham, Everton, ..) - hardly surprising in the age that demands instant results, but we aren't a big enough club to sustain losing money needlessly.

 

Recruiting decent players over thirty generally means high wages and a relatively rapid decline in usefulness.

 

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[VectisSaint]

We need more Stuart Taylors. I'm not exactly sure what it is he contributes but i've no doubt it's good.

 

Leaders don't have to be over 30. There's young guys that exhibit the qualities you want like Hojbjerg. Some older ex-leaders can also turn into bellends like Fonte angling for a move. Age is just a number and we can recruit people with the right attitude at any age. The other, probably more important, characteristic of a good leader is ability. They need to be good to be respected imo. That's where guys like Hojbjerg and JWP fall at the moment whereas a guy like VVD didn't have as good an attitude but became a leader through skill. We don't have any players left that have both the attitude and ability to be leaders.

Taylor doesn't contribute anything.

VvD didn't become leader through skill, he became captain by negotiating it as part of a revised contract deal with Bungling Les, which in turn lead to Fonte being forced out. We all know how well that turned out for the Club.

[benjii]

Our basic model of signing players who are likely to appreciate in value and want to impress other clubs is sound. Teams like West Brom and Sunderland got into trouble because their squads were packed with aging average players that they couldn't sell to reinvest.

 

However, it's clear that the current first team has problems with holding on to leads and I think part of that is down to leadership and mental toughness. If we can sign a couple of players with the attributes to fix that then we should, whether they are 22 or 32.

 

With the money available in the PL, not everyone has to have resale value and when you are flirting with relegation then it's a false economy to focus exclusively on long term.

[Ultimatt]

Taylor doesn't contribute anything.

VvD didn't become leader through skill, he became captain by negotiating it as part of a revised contract deal with Bungling Les, which in turn lead to Fonte being forced out. We all know how well that turned out for the Club.

 

I was being sarcastic about Taylor.

 

For your 2nd line, source?

[GGalpin]

Our basic model of signing players who are likely to appreciate in value and want to impress other clubs is sound. Teams like West Brom and Sunderland got into trouble because their squads were packed with aging average players that they couldn't sell to reinvest.

 

However, it's clear that the current first team has problems with holding on to leads and I think part of that is down to leadership and mental toughness. If we can sign a couple of players with the attributes to fix that then we should, whether they are 22 or 32.

 

With the money available in the PL, not everyone has to have resale value and when you are flirting with relegation then it's a false economy to focus exclusively on long term.

 

100%. Think a large part of the problem we've had is what Newcastle had after they thought they cracked the transfer market; they were buying players not to improve the team but solely on them having potential resale. Certainly a number of the players we've signed weren't needed or don't fit, but were bought for the same reasons. Interestingly I don't think Ings was bought for the resale value but to address a need in the team- and he's been our best signings for, what, the last two years?

 

Could do a lot worse than signing 2/3 to benefit the team solely, and 2/3 with resale value but address a real need in the team.

Edited 14 October, 2018 by GGalpin

[whizzpop]

I feel like we should have done in January with the links we had to Walcott, Sturridge, even Balotelli. The club now needs to sign a few established players like Cahill, Delph, Drinkwater or dare I say resign Lallana/Schneiderlin/Clyne to lift the whole side and fans and bring a feel-good factor back. The club can no longer keep signing unproven premier league players as its not working. We have lost the momentum we had from consecutive promotions, we can't sell the Champions League dream that we did with Mane, Wanyama, Osvaldo, Van Dijk et al - the best thing we can do now is sign this type of player to reignite the fans and team...whilst offloading the new bunch of dead wood we have accumulated. The summer failed, Elynoussi is worse than Boufal, Armstrong is no Steve Davis (who was well established in the premier league before going to Rangers) and Vestergaard is a headless big chicken. Angus Gunn is better than McCarthy but the hierarchy aren't willing to drop an average goalkeeper....

[VectisSaint]

I was being sarcastic about Taylor.

 

For your 2nd line, source?

 

I'm suspicious that you don't actually realise Taylor has left. You really need a source for the latter, did you not observe what was happening at the time, it was not exactly something that was covered up.

[Ultimatt]

I'm suspicious that you don't actually realise Taylor has left. You really need a source for the latter, did you not observe what was happening at the time, it was not exactly something that was covered up.

 

Maybe i've forgotten history, but VVD was made captain _after_ Fonte left ? https://southamptonfc.com/news/2017-01-22/claude-puel-captains-southampton-virgil-van-dijk-steven-davis

6 months after Fonte started acting up. And more than 6 months after VVD signed his final contract. Please explain?

 

Van Dijk was also made captain of Netherlands, was that worked into his contract too?

[Saint IQ]

Maybe i've forgotten history, but VVD was made captain _after_ Fonte left ? https://southamptonfc.com/news/2017-01-22/claude-puel-captains-southampton-virgil-van-dijk-steven-davis

6 months after Fonte started acting up. And more than 6 months after VVD signed his final contract. Please explain?

 

Van Dijk was also made captain of Netherlands, was that worked into his contract too?

 

It's because it's ********.

[VectisSaint]

Maybe i've forgotten history, but VVD was made captain _after_ Fonte left ? https://southamptonfc.com/news/2017-01-22/claude-puel-captains-southampton-virgil-van-dijk-steven-davis

6 months after Fonte started acting up. And more than 6 months after VVD signed his final contract. Please explain?

 

Van Dijk was also made captain of Netherlands, was that worked into his contract too?

 

It was all planned though, VVD was promised the captaincy as part of his contract extension. Fonte was clearly not impressed. VVD captained the team in the Europa League which strangely Fonte didn't play in. No idea what Netherlands has got to do with anything. Anyone who doesn't realise this was what was going on must have been living in a cave or something.

[Super_Uwe]

So you would have said no to Jimmy Case, Alan Ball and various 'lesser' old pros like Venison and Beresford who helped keep the club up? There are loads of examples of older pros who Saints have signed to come in as leaders and help the younger players, it was the old "Southampton way" and the club should probably look to do that. The team is crying out for leadership.

 

Again, someone like Cahill would be ideal. Who cares if he's after a last decent contract? The club can still build up other players to sell.

 

Sorry, not sure if you meant to quote me or someone else as I'm not sure my point disagrees with you a great deal?!

 

No issue at all signing players in the mould of Jimmy Case etc, I don't personally consider any of those players you mentioned as has-beens when they signed for us. As was proven in the years of service he gave to us. I'm thinking more along the lines of players who've moved to several clubs, had loads of injuries, used to have pace but no longer do etc. Owen when he signed for Stoke for example, he was a great player but sadly well past his best once he joined them.

 

My point specifically is that we don't seem to be even remotely looking to sign players over the age of 30. The actual age isn't an issue - I agree the level of experience is more important. If achievable within our wage structure I'd also love to see us sign Cahill because I think he's still got a couple more years left in him.

[Ultimatt]

It was all planned though, VVD was promised the captaincy as part of his contract extension. Fonte was clearly not impressed. VVD captained the team in the Europa League which strangely Fonte didn't play in. No idea what Netherlands has got to do with anything. Anyone who doesn't realise this was what was going on must have been living in a cave or something.

If VVD was promised captaincy why was Fonte still captain until he left, even after he behaved like a knob?

 

Since you like guesses with no proof, I'd say it's more likely Fonte didn't play Europa to not get cup tied as he wanted a January move.

 

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Edited 15 October, 2018 by Ultimatt