Modern football

[angelman]

When Leeds won the league I think they would have described themselves as part of the big six, if it existed. Ditto Everton. Ditto Villa.

 

That's what I said.

[ericb]

That's what I said.

 

I'll be honest back then i don't really remember any talk of the "top six", big clubs and clubs with history definitely, even if they weren't doing well (like United for a long time), but not a TOP six.

 

But the fact that the term "top six" exists, even before the start of any season, proves how fixed the league is. You don't ever hear people talk of a generic "top six" in any other division, because those divisions are competitive.

[mrfahaji]

I'll be honest back then i don't really remember any talk of the "top six", big clubs and clubs with history definitely, even if they weren't doing well (like United for a long time), but not a TOP six.

 

But the fact that the term "top six" exists, even before the start of any season, proves how fixed the league is. You don't ever hear people talk of a generic "top six" in any other division, because those divisions are competitive.

 

Ha, very good point!

[Batman]

I'll be honest back then i don't really remember any talk of the "top six", big clubs and clubs with history definitely, even if they weren't doing well (like United for a long time), but not a TOP six.

 

But the fact that the term "top six" exists, even before the start of any season, proves how fixed the league is. You don't ever hear people talk of a generic "top six" in any other division, because those divisions are competitive.

 

The fact there was no top 6 a few years ago suggests it is not totally fixed

[CB Fry]

I'll be honest back then i don't really remember any talk of the "top six", big clubs and clubs with history definitely, even if they weren't doing well (like United for a long time), but not a TOP six.

 

But the fact that the term "top six" exists, even before the start of any season, proves how fixed the league is. You don't ever hear people talk of a generic "top six" in any other division, because those divisions are competitive.

Which divisions would they be then?

 

You're right about one thing: there's definitely no top six in Spain, Germany, France, Scotland, Holland, Italy, Portugal or Belgium.

[whelk]

3 years ago we finished above Chelsea and Liverpool.

Leicester finished above them all.

Lots of hysteria and what it is like now will not be forever. Get a grip

 

Overhaul the loan system would go a long way to help even out.

[shurlock]

I'll be honest back then i don't really remember any talk of the "top six", big clubs and clubs with history definitely, even if they weren't doing well (like United for a long time), but not a TOP six.

 

But the fact that the term "top six" exists, even before the start of any season, proves how fixed the league is. You don't ever hear people talk of a generic "top six" in any other division, because those divisions are competitive.

 

Agree. The Big Four was all the rage a few years ago.

[doddisalegend]

3 years ago we finished above Chelsea and Liverpool.

Leicester finished above them all.

Lots of hysteria and what it is like now will not be forever. Get a grip

 

Overhaul the loan system would go a long way to help even out.

 

Bringing back catchment areas for academies would help to. The system they introduced a few years back allowed the big boys to start hoovering up all the young talent across the country closing out another way for clubs to compete with them. Its much harder for clubs to now have a strategy built on bringing through youth talent into the first team and selling them on later to help club finances when all the best talent in a clubs area is being snapped up by the likes of Chelsea before they turn 10.

[Batman]

Bringing back catchment areas for academies would help to. The system they introduced a few years back allowed the big boys to start hoovering up all the young talent across the country closing out another way for clubs to compete with them. Its much harder for clubs to now have a strategy built on bringing through youth talent into the first team and selling them on later to help club finances when all the best talent in a clubs area is being snapped up by the likes of Chelsea before they turn 10.

 

when you say big boys, you include us, right?

[doddisalegend]

when you say big boys, you include us, right?

 

Nope I'm aware we are a tier 1 academy but I said at the time the new system was introduced it was a bad idea its just another way of giving advantage to a few select elite clubs (and you can count us as one of those if you like). And yes before you say it I'm aware we used to fiddle the old system by having a satellite academy in Bath but really I'd like to see catchment areas based on counties which would encourage local lads to play for local teams, if they turn out to be a talent they can always move to a big club latter. If you added more stringent homegrown rules it would be convincible you would see lots more squads with young local talent playing for them and increase the pool of English players available for the national team. Rather than all the English talent stock pilling at a few select clubs with a path way to the first team blocked by foreign import players.

[Charlie Wayman]

I'll be honest back then i don't really remember any talk of the "top six", big clubs and clubs with history definitely, even if they weren't doing well (like United for a long time), but not a TOP six.

 

But the fact that the term "top six" exists, even before the start of any season, proves how fixed the league is. You don't ever hear people talk of a generic "top six" in any other division, because those divisions are competitive.

 

That's because in most leagues the top clubs are promoted out of it and replaced by poor teams in serial decline from a league above. So mediocrity is maintained.

 

In the PL the top teams remain as the top teams because there is nowhere for them to be promoted.

[Batman]

Nope I'm aware we are a tier 1 academy.

 

you should. We have people all over the show. and pick the pockets of teams around the country.

we are even doing it with regards to ladies football. There are Southampton girls sides in Devon and Cornwall these days

[mrfahaji]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/premier-league-is-losing-competitive-balance-as-top-six-reach-new-heights-sgnnkxpst

 

I don't have a Times subscription but from the headline and opening paragraph I'm pretty sure this is a relevant article!

 

It's almost as if it's not just about how Saints are performing.

[doddisalegend]

you should. We have people all over the show. and pick the pockets of teams around the country.

we are even doing it with regards to ladies football. There are Southampton girls sides in Devon and Cornwall these days

 

 

Just because saints are doing it doesn't mean I agree with it.

[ericb]

According to football leaks clubs have signed a term sheet committing to the start of a European Super League from 2021

 

[whelk]

Seems to have some legs the time.

 

I don’t mind at all. Greedy fckers can enjoy their wealth.

I’d be livid if I was a fan of the clubs involved,

 

It will be like their exciting preseason ******** tournaments in Chicago,

[doddisalegend]

More here (sadly spurs don't seem to have been invited )

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/five-english-clubs-named-in-‘super-league-plan’-for-2021/ar-BBPhbZZ?ocid=spartandhp

 

The German magazine – as part of the latest Football Leaks revelations – claims Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United and Manchester City are among the clubs who have been in negotiations about a new competition to replace the Champions League in three years’ time.

A draft of a “binding term sheet” sent on 22 October 2018 by the firm Key Capital Partners to Real Madrid’s president, Florentino Pérez, appears to show the English clubs would be joined by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Paris Saint-Germain and Milan as founding members with a further five clubs – Atlético Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Marseille, Internazionale and Roma – appearing as “initial guests”.

According to Der Spiegel, the 11 founding teams could not be relegated and would be part of the league for the first 20 years. The date by which the 16 clubs are to sign the “binding term sheet” is listed as November 2018.

 

he 11 founding clubs, according to the document, would register a company in Spain to market, organise and execute the European Super League under its full control. The competition would have a group stage and a knockout round. There is also a suggestion that a second league under the European Super League could be created.

 

So the biggest clubs in Europe would play in a league they own yeah I bet UFEA are happy as they watch their cash cow disappear over the horizon

[alehouseboys]

This has been inevitable for years now. Traditional supporters of the English clubs will hate it, going away every other weekend is a way of life, the new generation will probably love it.

 

And how will our 'Big 5' cope when they're suddenly an 'average' club in that league? And when the top players suddenly have the choice of Barcelona, Madrid, Milan or Paris rather than Manchester or Liverpool to live as obscene wages will be offered everywhere, where will they choose? The Mancs and Scousers will likely be regularly battling it out at the foot of the table.

 

Problem for us is Tottenham, West Ham, Everton, Newcastle and Leeds will then become the new 'Big 5' over here and hoover up the best players, leaving the rest of us in a similar, albeit slightly improved, position to now. It would be far more enjoyable though.

[brmbrm]

Same **** here https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46078651 and here https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/02/five-english-clubs-named-in-super-league-plan-chelsea-manchester-city-united-arsenal-liverpool

 

Would be great if they could all **** off. The PL is a cash-driven mega-entertainment ****-fest. Get rid please

[doddisalegend]

This has been inevitable for years now. Traditional supporters of the English clubs will hate it, going away every other weekend is a way of life, the new generation will probably love it.

 

And how will our 'Big 5' cope when they're suddenly an 'average' club in that league? And when the top players suddenly have the choice of Barcelona, Madrid, Milan or Paris rather than Manchester or Liverpool to live as obscene wages will be offered everywhere, where will they choose? The Mancs and Scousers will likely be regularly battling it out at the foot of the table.

 

Problem for us is Tottenham, West Ham, Everton, Newcastle and Leeds will then become the new 'Big 5' over here and hoover up the best players, leaving the rest of us in a similar, albeit slightly improved, position to now. It would be far more enjoyable though.

 

Well I assume it would signal the collapse of the PL so yeah stadium size and matchday revenue will become a big factor again still the gap in finances would be less than it is now especially without CL money further complicating matters.

[Batman]

This has been inevitable for years now. Traditional supporters of the English clubs will hate it, going away every other weekend is a way of life, the new generation will probably love it.

 

And how will our 'Big 5' cope when they're suddenly an 'average' club in that league? And when the top players suddenly have the choice of Barcelona, Madrid, Milan or Paris rather than Manchester or Liverpool to live as obscene wages will be offered everywhere, where will they choose? The Mancs and Scousers will likely be regularly battling it out at the foot of the table.

 

Problem for us is Tottenham, West Ham, Everton, Newcastle and Leeds will then become the new 'Big 5' over here and hoover up the best players, leaving the rest of us in a similar, albeit slightly improved, position to now. It would be far more enjoyable though.

isnt that the case already?

[whelk]

A quick look on RAWK and they are none too impressed.

Yeah fck the Merseyside derby you are playing Inter

[saint1977]

you should. We have people all over the show. and pick the pockets of teams around the country.

we are even doing it with regards to ladies football. There are Southampton girls sides in Devon and Cornwall these days

 

Not just ladies teams, boys and girls hubs and teams as well. There’s a huge banner advertising Saints in the South West on the main road into Torquay and there are hubs all over the SW.

 

Whether they can maintain it after relegation is another thing and the football has hardly been inspiring in the last 2 years!

[alehouseboys]

isnt that the case already?

 

To a degree but many seem to want to come to the Premier League 'experience' right now and I'm sure there's more to be had with the TV money sloshing around, that won't be the case when they're all the the same league together levelling the playing field.

[Saint-Fred]

It's got to happen as every league in Europe is now like Scotland with a handful of clubs dominating. Unless something is done domestic football will die anyway.

The problem for those clubs is that a hierarchy will soon appear within that league and a couple of the 11 will soon fall away from the others....imagine that Liverpool not winning anything for 30 years as they can't get past Real Madrid? Oh you don't have to imagine do we..it's like them in the premier league! Lol

[hypochondriac]

It's got to happen as every league in Europe is now like Scotland with a handful of clubs dominating. Unless something is done domestic football will die anyway.

The problem for those clubs is that a hierarchy will soon appear within that league and a couple of the 11 will soon fall away from the others....imagine that Liverpool not winning anything for 30 years as they can't get past Real Madrid? Oh you don't have to imagine do we..it's like them in the premier league! Lol

No it won't domestic football is not dying in the slightest.

[Saint-Fred]

No it won't domestic football is not dying in the slightest.

 

It's already dead but propped up...why are the top 6 able to get a bigger share of the oversea rights? Because no one in China is the slightly bit interested in Saints v West Ham..or any of the other games excluding the top 6 (actually it's only 5 as spurs aren't a draw). That's why the gap is being allowed (even encouraged) to grow, the premier league need the top 5 to be the top 5. It doesn't matter who the rest of the fodder is as no one in the Far East have any concern if Swansea, Cardiff or Newcastle go up or down....as long as someone is lined up to be beaten 4-0 in the gaps between the big sides playing each other.

[Cabrone]

As long as there is a way of getting promoted to this 'super' league then I'm not against it, would make the prem a lot more competitive.

 

Could see Spurs getting promoted into it fairly quickly making the prem even more competitive.

[InvictaSaint]

As long as there is a way of getting promoted to this 'super' league then I'm not against it, would make the prem a lot more competitive.

 

Could see Spurs getting promoted into it fairly quickly making the prem even more competitive.

 

I think the article posted further up the thread mentions no relegation for 20 years so I imagine it would be a closed shop with no possibility of promotion to the league unless it expands or creates a second tier.

[doddisalegend]

A quick look on RAWK and they are none too impressed.

Yeah fck the Merseyside derby you are playing Inter

 

Do they think their owners give a **** about local fans? I'm sure they would rather fill Anfield up with big spending, half and half scarf wearing, neutral day trippers, come to watch some franchised European super league game against Barca than a bunch of locals.

[doddisalegend]

I think the article posted further up the thread mentions no relegation for 20 years so I imagine it would be a closed shop with no possibility of promotion to the league unless it expands or creates a second tier.

 

yes basically a closed shop owned by the clubs that play in the league.

[SKD]

As long as there is a way of getting promoted to this 'super' league then I'm not against it, would make the prem a lot more competitive.

 

Could see Spurs getting promoted into it fairly quickly making the prem even more competitive.

 

Pretty much this, otherwise I don’t see how it can benefit a club like us in any way, shape or form. Like it or not, the PL money does help us as a club.

 

Potentially, if it’s sucessful it could shape top flight football as a whole. Could they make divisions? Personally, I’d much rather see us play top flight teams from Italy, France, Germany or Spain every week than I would Newcastle or Stoke (given the cost of railfair it’d Probably be cheaper as well).

 

Essentially take the big 5 or 6 away and they’d just be replaced by someone else, probably Everton/Tottenham etc and owners / clubs who are desperate to break into the ‘super league’.

 

If there is no promotion/relegation etc I don’t see how they can pass it? How have the decided the teams who’ll be in it? Do Arsenal deserve a place anymore than Tottenham?

[doddisalegend]

Pretty much this, otherwise I don’t see how it can benefit a club like us in any way, shape or form. Like it or not, the PL money does help us as a club.

 

Potentially, if it’s sucessful it could shape top flight football as a whole. Could they make divisions? Personally, I’d much rather see us play top flight teams from Italy, France, Germany or Spain every week than I would Newcastle or Stoke (given the cost of railfair it’d Probably be cheaper as well).

 

Essentially take the big 5 or 6 away and they’d just be replaced by someone else, probably Everton/Tottenham etc and owners / clubs who are desperate to break into the ‘super league’.

 

If there is no promotion/relegation etc I don’t see how they can pass it? How have the decided the teams who’ll be in it? Do Arsenal deserve a place anymore than Tottenham?

 

According to the article above the clubs in it will own the league (unlike the PL) so once they've decided who's in it they will stay in it for at least 20 years. Financially it wouldn't benefit anyone but the clubs in it as the whole super league will be run by them for the benefit of them. There is no doubt it would cause pain to a lot of English teams financially as the fallout from losing PL cash kicked in. After a few seasons the league would probably be a lot more balanced. Plus clubs having to relay on local fans for revenue instead of TV would probably benefit match going fans in the long run when we become more important to clubs than a load of fans in SE Asia.

[whelk]

Well Man Utd are going to be the whipping boys of this new league

[Cabrone]

I could see a 2nd tier coming in very quickly with the likes of Spurs, Benfica, CSKA, Ajax, Celtic etc being invited into the structure.

 

However without a promotion\relegation opportunity to this new setup the gulf between national leagues and this league would be IMO quite a bit bigger than the gulf between the prem and the champ and even league 1. That's not good.

[whelk]

I could see a 2nd tier coming in very quickly with the likes of Spurs, Benfica, CSKA, Ajax, Celtic etc being invited into the structure.

 

However without a promotion\relegation opportunity to this new setup the gulf between national leagues and this league would be IMO quite a bit bigger than the gulf between the prem and the champ and even league 1. That's not good.

 

No way that is happening. Check out Europa league viewing figures, nobody gives a sh1t.

[benjii]

This has been inevitable for years now. Traditional supporters of the English clubs will hate it, going away every other weekend is a way of life, the new generation will probably love it.

 

And how will our 'Big 5' cope when they're suddenly an 'average' club in that league? And when the top players suddenly have the choice of Barcelona, Madrid, Milan or Paris rather than Manchester or Liverpool to live as obscene wages will be offered everywhere, where will they choose? The Mancs and Scousers will likely be regularly battling it out at the foot of the table.

 

Problem for us is Tottenham, West Ham, Everton, Newcastle and Leeds will then become the new 'Big 5' over here and hoover up the best players, leaving the rest of us in a similar, albeit slightly improved, position to now. It would be far more enjoyable though.

 

Out of interest, how did you compile that "big 5" list?

[benjii]

I have full confidence in the FA, the dynamic and professional guardian of the game in this country, to deliver measures to rejuvenate our domestic league, should this happen.

[sandwichsaint]

Why do people assume they would leave the domestic league? If this was instead of the CL the big clubs could easily play their domestic lge and then the 20-odd european games on top (no domestic cups); they keep 25+ first team standard players on the books now and they could afford more. I would suggest they will continue to play their B team in the PL. No incentive for the PL/FA to exclude the big 5/6 from domestic football.

[Batman]

Why do people assume they would leave the domestic league? If this was instead of the CL the big clubs could easily play their domestic lge and then the 20-odd european games on top (no domestic cups); they keep 25+ first team standard players on the books now and they could afford more. I would suggest they will continue to play their B team in the PL. No incentive for the PL/FA to exclude the big 5/6 from domestic football.

 

if this new thing is outside of FIFA/UEFA. Then there is a chance a block will be put in place to stop them carrying on in the prem

[sandwichsaint]

Unlikely to go completely outside the current establishment imho, that would be the end of international football/world cup etc. How would players transfer in/transfer out etc?

 

More likely to be a messy compromise with the new EL throwing crumbs to the remains of UEFA. When the PL was formed the FA had no choice but to go along with it, this will be the same, FIFA/EUFA won't want to excommunicate 500 of the world's best players out of the world game.

[doddisalegend]

Unlikely to go completely outside the current establishment imho, that would be the end of international football/world cup etc. How would players transfer in/transfer out etc?

 

More likely to be a messy compromise with the new EL throwing crumbs to the remains of UEFA. When the PL was formed the FA had no choice but to go along with it, this will be the same, FIFA/EUFA won't want to excommunicate 500 of the world's best players out of the world game.

 

there is no way UEFA are going to take the loss of the CL lying down its a huge brand and money maker for them.

[sandwichsaint]

there is no way UEFA are going to take the loss of the CL lying down its a huge brand and money maker for them.

 

What choice did the FL have when 18 teams walked out to form the PL?

 

Life went on for the FA and the FL,UEFA can kick the rebel teams out and continue as they are now, or they can suck it up, get the best deal they can and carry on with a second level of European competitions etc and preserve the best players in international football etc. My money is on a messy compromise.

[doddisalegend]

So big clubs certainly don't get treated differently...

 

Football Leaks claim FIFA president Gianni Infantino 'helped' Man City and PSG escape FFP punishment

 

The documents allege Infantino was involved in negotiations which enabled City and French club Paris Saint Germain to avoid strict sanctions for sidestepping rules regarding sponsorship income.

 

The documents allege City were allowed to book three times more income from some Abu Dhabi sponsors than independent experts deemed the deals were worth, equating to about an extra 20 million pounds a year, whilst PSG's deal with the Qatar Tourism Authority was valued at 100 million Euros a year, despite being worth only a few million or less.

If true, these arrangements would have helped to boost the clubs' income, enabling them to comply with UEFA rules that limit the losses clubs are allowed to incur.

That, in turn, could have helped the clubs to spend tens of millions more on players than they otherwise would have been able to do, it is reported.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/football-leaks-claim-fifa-president-gianni-infantino-helped-man-city-and-psg-escape-ffp-punishment/ar-BBPgIaR?ocid=spartandhp

[alehouseboys]

Out of interest, how did you compile that "big 5" list?

 

Just basic assumptions, my new 'Big 5' based simply on the biggest clubs (biggest attendances and so biggest budgets without the astronomical TV deals that will halt eventually) currently in the PL or, with Leeds, on the edge. That could be different in 3 years time but they are the clubs that will just get bigger once the real big boys have f'ked off. Of course, Villa and Sheff Wed could get back and be big hitters as everything changes and strong clubs I put in our bracket, Forest, Derby, 'Boro, etc. would likely benefit too.

[CB Fry]

....

[brmbrm]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46086346

 

Maybe its not all just **** and money.....

[CB Fry]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46086346

 

Maybe its not all just **** and money.....

Has anyone ever suggested that footballers don't get impacted by traumatic events, deaths of loved ones, colleagues, mentors?

 

Kaspar Schmeichel came across as a level-headed, balanced footballer before the Leicester owner died, and nothing has changed in that regard.

 

Is someone going to do a Leicester-based "puts it all into perspective, don't it" routine in every single thread now?

[whelk]

Has anyone ever suggested that footballers don't get impacted by traumatic events, deaths of loved ones, colleagues, mentors?

 

Kaspar Schmeichel came across as a level-headed, balanced footballer before the Leicester owner died, and nothing has changed in that regard.

 

Is someone going to do a Leicester-based "puts it all into perspective, don't it" routine in every single thread now?

 

Football fans and punditslove to be mawkish

[kyle04]

"The document also has a list of potential ownership stakes by the individual clubs in the joint European Super League company, with Real Madrid holding 18.77%, Barcelona 17.61% and Manchester United 12.58%."

 

UEFA are dead against this and with good reason. It's quite sinister really and follows the trend in the world today of a few giant all powerful organizations controlling many aspects of our lives. I didn't tell Google they could film my house and post it online.

I'm a little surprised that even the infinitely greedy bigger clubs would contemplate this. Without genuine competition football will lose one fundamental aspect that makes it so appealing. It's becoming increasing unlikely these days but a "smaller" club can beat a bigger one and give the fans a day to remember. But generally the bigger clubs mentioned in the proposal all thrive in the current warped system anyway.

Maybe because Man Utd aren't guaranteed CL qualifiers any more....