No Plan, No Strategy @ All Levels

[hypochondriac]

What an absolute load of inaccurate tripe

What we need is the revival or SISA and Richard chorley. No doubt about it.

[VectisSaint]

"The root cause of the problem is player recruitment, the club need to deal with it"

"So the finger must truly now point at Les Reed who has to manage Wilson and then Wilson himself"

 

I agree with Nick.

No it isn't. As usual Nick misses the point completely and also misses the problem with the Academy. In the end the buck stops with the Owner(s). Gao has done nothing, and his hands have apparently been tied by our minority owner who did not have the nous to see what was going wrong after pushing out our last effective Chief Exec. Playe recruitment is a problem but it's an effect rather than a cause, as are the other problems, Academy development, commer ial development, etc etc

[Topcat]

No it isn't. As usual Nick misses the point completely and also misses the problem with the Academy. In the end the buck stops with the Owner(s). Gao has done nothing, and his hands have apparently been tied by our minority owner who did not have the nous to see what was going wrong after pushing out our last effective Chief Exec. Playe recruitment is a problem but it's an effect rather than a cause, as are the other problems, Academy development, commer ial development, etc etc

The only fault of the owner is to put his trust in Kreuger and Reed and leave them both in place. One of them (at least) should have been fired for last season.

[shurlock]

No it isn't. As usual Nick misses the point completely and also misses the problem with the Academy. In the end the buck stops with the Owner(s). Gao has done nothing, and his hands have apparently been tied by our minority owner who did not have the nous to see what was going wrong after pushing out our last effective Chief Exec. Playe recruitment is a problem but it's an effect rather than a cause, as are the other problems, Academy development, commer ial development, etc etc

 

Nick's gone native. Sad to see.

[Turkish]

Nick's gone native. Sad to see.

 

Sadly TUI has become an extension of the clubs propaganda machine with Nick a lone crusader to convince everyone what s great

Job Ralph Kruger is doing.

 

In fact this is the first article I can remember for literally years where he has actually made some semblance of criticism of the club. Back In Corteses era we had regular articles criticising everything from the lack of full advertising boards round the pitch to the wasting of money on transfers even down to fag packet maths as to how much Dani Osvaldos national insurance payments might be. Now all we get is mainly blaming the fans for being negative as Nicks staunch defence of the club becomes increasingly bizarre. The highlight being a post last season where despite being on a terrible run and clear the manager was woefully out of his depth he proclaimed we wouldn’t be able to tell who was the best manager out of Pellegrino and Pochetino until the season has finished.

 

I admire Nick greatly for a lot of what he’s done for the fans over the years, I was one of those who attend the first SISA meeting at the captains corner in the early 90s, but these days his defence of the club and those running it despite all the evidence is very strange to say the least, particularly in years gone by he’s been one of the most vocal dissenters of those running the club when things have been going down the pan.

[Dalek2003]

It all hinges on staying up. That's all that matters.

[Ultimatt]

Reed and Krueger are there to make profits.

The owners of the club want profits.

Reed and Krueger's jobs are safe because they're delivering what the owners want. It's all become about money instead of aiming to finish as high as possible.

 

There is a strategy. It's just one that only serves the owners and is terrible for the fans.

[Dark Munster]

Reed and Krueger are there to make profits.

The owners of the club want profits.

Reed and Krueger's jobs are safe because they're delivering what the owners want. It's all become about money instead of aiming to finish as high as possible.

 

There is a strategy. It's just one that only serves the owners and is terrible for the fans.

If that's the case then their heads should've rolled for Boufal, the Clown's payoff, and the Clown's donkey.

[Ultimatt]

If that's the case then their heads should've rolled for Boufal, the Clown's payoff, and the Clown's donkey.

 

We'd still sell Boufal for at least £10m, we only paid £16m. It's a small loss while the potential gain was way higher if he had 1 good season. He's got 2 goals 1 assist in his last 3 games on loan so might be getting more starts now if he can continue that form.

Carillo is inexcusable. A panic January buy. Having said that, he's having an okay season in La Liga and we'll get most of what we paid back. He's their top rated player this season on whoscored: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/825/Show/Spain-Leganes#team-squad-stats-detailed

Edited 11 October, 2018 by Ultimatt

[Dalek2003]

Reed and Krueger are there to make profits.

The owners of the club want profits.

Reed and Krueger's jobs are safe because they're delivering what the owners want. It's all become about money instead of aiming to finish as high as possible.

 

There is a strategy. It's just one that only serves the owners and is terrible for the fans.

 

...and as long as we stay up and the money keeps coming they have succeeded. It's always been like that. 17th achieves this and anything else is a bonus.

 

The only problem with 17th, for example, is the fans are usually disgruntled but they are not as important as the business plan as far as the board is concerned.

[Badger]

We'd still sell Boufal for at least £10m, we only paid £16m. It's a small loss while the potential gain was way higher if he had 1 good season. He's got 2 goals 1 assist in his last 3 games on loan so might be getting more starts now if he can continue that form.

Carillo is inexcusable. A panic January buy. Having said that, he's having an okay season in La Liga and we'll get most of what we paid back. He's their top rated player this season on whoscored: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/825/Show/Spain-Leganes#team-squad-stats-detailed

 

Bet we don't.... can't see anyone being so gullible to shell out £10m or more on that donkey. Except Pellegrino who is at a club that probably can't afford it.

[Charlie Wayman]

"The Project" to turn Saints into a Pocket SuperClub, tucked in under the Big Six, was on borrowed time as soon as Marcus croaked. Then, once Kat decided she really, really couldn't get interested in football and dumped Cortese it was dead in the water. Since then it's been managed decline with Kat getting out of here as fast as her conscience and the marketplace for small Premier League Clubs would allow her. She honoured her father's footballing legacy only superficially, reminiscent of a widow who runs off with the fancy man indecently quickly after hubby's coronary.

 

Nailed on! The only thing you missed was the obvious jealousy aroused within his real daughter Kat by Marcus' close relationship with his 'adoptive' son Nicola. As soon as Marcus croaked Nicola was done for and the Kat could turn her attention to liquidising her inheritance.

 

Nobody can blame her for not sharing her father's obsession, not many kids do but her less than subtle means of selling off the family silver ignited most of the subsequent rancour. She failed to understand what a football club is, that is far, far more than the sum of its disposable parts.

 

What she should have done is admitted no interest and put the Club up for sale immediately lock, stock & barrel as a going concern. Had she done so it is quite probable that we would not be in the mess we are now.

[ericb]

To be fair to Nick he's actually spot on about the inner workings of the club and the job roles going on there. There's obviously some detail missing about what people do, which i assume if he knows knows how business sensitive it is so would never share publicly (most is under NDA).

 

I do agree with Turkish though that Nick is far too "nice" to the club today, there's some really difficult questions we should be asking about recruitment at the club, about the amount we've been spending, about the fact that seemingly three managers haven't been able to keep unity in the squad and that there's been constant divisions since Koeman left.

[brmbrm]

Tiny brains? Ironic, considering how many spelling and grammatical errors there are in your post.

 

Pffft. On a thread with "@" meaning "at a rate of" instead of "at" meaning "at" i.e. "at the place of", riddled with ares instead of ours and total shambolic use of the ingerlish langooage????? Welcome to a footy forum.

[Nordic Saint]

Lander Sports Development's share price, which has been in steep decline for the last year, has now absolutely collapsed from a high of 21.33 yuan in 2015 to just 2.78 yuan today. Gao's main business is now in serious trouble and he will struggle to pay back the money he borrowed.

 

Like Kat before him, his main source of income will now have to be Southampton Football Club because Lander has gone the same way as MALI.

[Badger]

in summary then, it's a rudderless ship.

 

Just leave it to Les to do his best Captain Smith in navigating the icebergs.

 

Anyone confident ?

[Nordic Saint]

'Wesley Hoedt has hinted that the club’s issues at the back are down to Mark Hughes not doing enough work on it on the training pitch.'

The 24-year-old said, via the Daily Echo: “In Italy they spend days on defending instead of moments of days."

 

“That’s just the difference in culture. In Italy we did two or three extra training sessions a week only for the defensive unit.”

 

The laziness which runs through the club from top to bottom, from tired old Les through Hughes and the coaches to the players, is a real problem. We need someone to introduce a culture of hard work back into the club.

[Crab Lungs]

Hoedt having the temerity to criticise other people

 

What an absolute c0kk he is

[LGTL]

Hoedt has some cheek. He has been absolutely pathetic this season. What an absolute bellend he is.

[Batman]

Hoedt thinks he this generations Berasi

[Topcat]

Lander Sports Development's share price, which has been in steep decline for the last year, has now absolutely collapsed from a high of 21.33 yuan in 2015 to just 2.78 yuan today. Gao's main business is now in serious trouble and he will struggle to pay back the money he borrowed.

 

Like Kat before him, his main source of income will now have to be Southampton Football Club because Lander has gone the same way as MALI.

Very interesting. If any loans are tied into a minimum share price, he could be in a massive financial difficulty.

[benjii]

Very interesting. If any loans are tied into a minimum share price, he could be in a massive financial difficulty.

 

It would be pretty odd if they were.

[pluto]

Lander Sports Development's share price, which has been in steep decline for the last year, has now absolutely collapsed from a high of 21.33 yuan in 2015 to just 2.78 yuan today. Gao's main business is now in serious trouble and he will struggle to pay back the money he borrowed.

 

Like Kat before him, his main source of income will now have to be Southampton Football Club because Lander has gone the same way as MALI.

 

I dont think Kat liebherr used the club for income, the family royally minted in millions before they turned up at SFC.

[Viking Saint]

'Wesley Hoedt has hinted that the club’s issues at the back are down to Mark Hughes not doing enough work on it on the training pitch.'

The 24-year-old said, via the Daily Echo: “In Italy they spend days on defending instead of moments of days."

 

“That’s just the difference in culture. In Italy we did two or three extra training sessions a week only for the defensive unit.”

 

The laziness which runs through the club from top to bottom, from tired old Les through Hughes and the coaches to the players, is a real problem. We need someone to introduce a culture of hard work back into the club.

 

And all the extra training he did has clearly improved him no end...

[Ultimatt]

A couple of analysis posts that go against the large squad strategy our board have gone for:

 

http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/mr/mr34/en/

http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/mr/mr38/en/

[Nordic Saint]

I dont think Kat liebherr used the club for income, the family royally minted in millions before they turned up at SFC.

 

Oh yes she did. She charged the club 5% interest for loans, which had to be paid back to her in full before she pocketed £210 million from Gao for his 80% share in the club. Apart from the interest she gets on the money her father left her, that has been her main source of income. Almost nothing is left of the MALI group of companies she inherited from her father. Kat sells off or liquidates companies; she doesn't develop them and if she is 'royally minted' why did she want the £210 million from Gao?.

[hackedoff]

The reasons and methods of Rupert Lowe and it,s going to end up with the same result.

Surprised only a few people on here could see it coming.

[pluto]

Oh yes she did. She charged the club 5% interest for loans, which had to be paid back to her in full before she pocketed £210 million from Gao for his 80% share in the club. Apart from the interest she gets on the money her father left her, that has been her main source of income. Almost nothing is left of the MALI group of companies she inherited from her father. Kat sells off or liquidates companies; she doesn't develop them and if she is 'royally minted' why did she want the £210 million from Gao?.

 

Yes, aware she took a low interest rate on loans instead of the club taking a higher banking one.

But no way did she or the family need SFC for money !

She wanted to sell the club as she hated all the responsibility of it all, she didn’t need the money from the sale to pay her bills.

The Mali stuff was a very minor business and not even worth mentioning.

The family advisors told here the best chance of doing a sale would be in the PL, you are more or less saying she should of given it away for free

[Depressed of Shirley]

Oh yes she did. She charged the club 5% interest for loans, which had to be paid back to her in full before she pocketed £210 million from Gao for his 80% share in the club. Apart from the interest she gets on the money her father left her, that has been her main source of income. Almost nothing is left of the MALI group of companies she inherited from her father. Kat sells off or liquidates companies; she doesn't develop them and if she is 'royally minted' why did she want the £210 million from Gao?.

 

I love the way someone with nothing better to do than post on a fans message board criticises someone for getting £210m, like it is some really small amount that we would have all turned down.

[eelpie]

Agreed Fans need to down tools, stop attending games and paying to watch this dross. Do a West Ham and rebel against the owner! imagine if the fans actually did that today booed towards GAO oh i'm forgetting our fans are a bunch of drips with no balls like our players.....

 

Well the disappointing home attendance against Premiership leaders Chelsea seems to indicate that Saints fans are already beginning to snub the club.

A pity because Saints fanbase has always been the core strength of the club.

 

Gao and Reed are you not concerned?

[norwaysaint]

Gao has done nothing, and his hands have apparently been tied by our minority owner

 

I've missed this. Can someone explain the evidence it's based on and what the story is?

[once_bitterne]

Our main problem is that since Cortese left we haven't had any one person running the club for the owner and so it's no surprise we are lacking direction. Gao should have done that the new owners of Villa did and appoint a new CEO as soon as they took over.

[eelpie]

Our main problem is that since Cortese left we haven't had any one person running the club for the owner and so it's no surprise we are lacking direction. Gao should have done that the new owners of Villa did and appoint a new CEO as soon as they took over.

 

This

[Wurzel]

Our main problem is that since Cortese left we haven't had any one person running the club for the owner and so it's no surprise we are lacking direction. Gao should have done that the new owners of Villa did and appoint a new CEO as soon as they took over.

 

Not too dissimilar to problems on the pitch. Lacking a leader when the going gets tough. Yoshida looks like the only one even half willing to take on that role and he's only just found himself back in the starting line up.

[doddisalegend]

Our main problem is that since Cortese left we haven't had any one person running the club for the owner and so it's no surprise we are lacking direction. Gao should have done that the new owners of Villa did and appoint a new CEO as soon as they took over.

 

I had completely missed the fact Villa have a new owner. Tony Xia turned out to be a bit of a disaster didn't he?

[angelman]

"The Project" to turn Saints into a Pocket SuperClub, tucked in under the Big Six, was on borrowed time as soon as Marcus croaked. Then, once Kat decided she really, really couldn't get interested in football and dumped Cortese it was dead in the water. Since then it's been managed decline with Kat getting out of here as fast as her conscience and the marketplace for small Premier League Clubs would allow her. She honoured her father's footballing legacy only superficially, reminiscent of a widow who runs off with the fancy man indecently quickly after hubby's coronary.

 

The one thing that I would disagree with here, is the legacy bit. I know that you stated footballing legacy, but the legacy that Marcus left was always to his daughter, not to Southampton FC and its supporters. He bought us for a song, treated us well, had fun doing it. His daughter was clever enough to nurture the investment and got about as much as she was ever going to out of us.

[larry12]

We'd still sell Boufal for at least £10m, we only paid £16m. It's a small loss while the potential gain was way higher if he had 1 good season. He's got 2 goals 1 assist in his last 3 games on loan so might be getting more starts now if he can continue that form.

Carillo is inexcusable. A panic January buy. Having said that, he's having an okay season in La Liga and we'll get most of what we paid back. He's their top rated player this season on whoscored: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/825/Show/Spain-Leganes#team-squad-stats-detailed

 

£50,000 by 52 weeks = £2.6m, by 3yr contract = £16 + £7.2m - £10m eventual sale = £13.2m loss. That is not a small loss. Carillo might be costing Saints at least £2.5m a season. That is £5m + wasted by next May.

Whoever keeps wasting money like this for at least the last 2 years shouldn't be working for Saints anymore, ie Les Reed.

[angelman]

larry, that's all wonderful but you have forgotten 2 things. One is the loan fee that we get and secondly, the clubs that they go to pay part/all of the wages.

[benjii]

larry, that's all wonderful but you have forgotten 2 things. One is the loan fee that we get and secondly, the clubs that they go to pay part/all of the wages.

 

Leganes average player salary last season was about 10k a week and Celta Vigo's was about 20k so I expect it's very much "part", but fair point.

[larry12]

Yes, aware she took a low interest rate on loans instead of the club taking a higher banking one.

But no way did she or the family need SFC for money !

She wanted to sell the club as she hated all the responsibility of it all, she didn’t need the money from the sale to pay her bills.

The Mali stuff was a very minor business and not even worth mentioning.

The family advisors told here the best chance of doing a sale would be in the PL, you are more or less saying she should of given it away for free

 

You seem to be a close friend of "FatKat" She was/is not on the Leibherr or Mali Board which are both privately owned. Her only income from these groups would seem have been inherited shares.

I couldn't find any info on the internet of where any of her income came/comes from. On paper she was never a Billionaire, Rodney. Mali group was I think worth £3.4 billion when Markus died.

There is no evidence to the contrary that she didn't need the money from the china man.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

You seem to be a close friend of "FatKat" She was/is not on the Leibherr or Mali Board which are both privately owned. Her only income from these groups would seem have been inherited shares.

I couldn't find any info on the internet of where any of her income came/comes from. On paper she was never a Billionaire, Rodney. Mali group was I think worth £3.4 billion when Markus died.

There is no evidence to the contrary that she didn't need the money from the china man.

 

Thanks Trigger

[oldsarum]

What we need is the revival or SISA and Richard chorley. No doubt about it.

 

Chorley was not a major palyer in SISA in the days it counted for anything (eg Protests that ultimately led to Branfoot getting the boot), it was the likes of Clive Foley and Nick Illingsworth and other members of the committee of which i was one, along with Fanzine producers of the time and Perry Macmillan, getting involved with well organised/publised/attended meetings and protests

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Lander Sports Development's share price, which has been in steep decline for the last year, has now absolutely collapsed from a high of 21.33 yuan in 2015 to just 2.78 yuan today. Gao's main business is now in serious trouble and he will struggle to pay back the money he borrowed.

 

Like Kat before him, his main source of income will now have to be Southampton Football Club because Lander has gone the same way as MALI.

 

Now, this is worrying. Will he have to start selling assets to bail out Lander?

[angelman]

Don't be silly. Kat said things would be done in the best interests of the clube. We had statements such as.....

 

- We are looking to the future with a determination to create a culture based on open communication

- I will ensure that all decisions made about the future of the club will be in the best interests of its staff, players, management and fans and will be taken with the prime objective of honouring and maintaining the club's heritage and tradition in the Southampton way.

- Please understand that I can only make limited comments regarding this process but I can assure you that any steps we do take will be in the best interests of the club.

[ericb]

Chorley was not a major palyer in SISA in the days it counted for anything (eg Protests that ultimately led to Branfoot getting the boot), it was the likes of Clive Foley and Nick Illingsworth and other members of the committee of which i was one, along with Fanzine producers of the time and Perry Macmillan, getting involved with well organised/publised/attended meetings and protests

 

Foley, Illingsworth, Perry and Jim Steele were the main bods behind the branfoot protests/sisa, Chorley turned up a bit later and got involved. At the time i thought he was ok but i lost a lot of respect for him after he acted a complete pr*ck to a mates mum.

[The Cat]

Foley, Illingsworth, Perry and Jim Steele were the main bods behind the branfoot protests/sisa, Chorley turned up a bit later and got involved. At the time i thought he was ok but i lost a lot of respect for him after he acted a complete pr*ck to a mates mum.

 

He's currently banned from a charity shop in town. I think that says it all really.

[saint1977]

Reed and Krueger are there to make profits.

The owners of the club want profits.

Reed and Krueger's jobs are safe because they're delivering what the owners want. It's all become about money instead of aiming to finish as high as possible.

 

There is a strategy. It's just one that only serves the owners and is terrible for the fans.

 

In which case, it is Exeter Chiefs, Exeter City, Torquay Utd and Plymouth Argyle games for me until we have new owners, minus the vile Kreuger, The Pensioner and Pensioner’s wee care assistant, who are interested in the club itself. Beyond this season, if people want line Gao’s investors pockets go for it but I and most other fans really, really didn’t want him as an owner and I can see the 08/09 14k gates in the Championship again.

 

Will happily return to SMS once they are gone irrespective of level - League One, Two, non league etc.

[once_bitterne]

Bet we don't.... can't see anyone being so gullible to shell out £10m or more on that donkey. Except Pellegrino who is at a club that probably can't afford it.

 

Probably? Leganes record transfer fee is around 3m Euros.

 

We'll be lucky to get anything substantial back for him. When he does go it won't be to Leganes, that is just a shop window the club are putting him in - more in hope than expectation.

[Give it to Ron]

Chorley was not a major palyer in SISA in the days it counted for anything (eg Protests that ultimately led to Branfoot getting the boot), it was the likes of Clive Foley and Nick Illingsworth and other members of the committee of which i was one, along with Fanzine producers of the time and Perry Macmillan, getting involved with well organised/publised/attended meetings and protests

 

Clive is still about and goes - still plays (walking) football too where I do and decent player.

[Saint86]

In which case, it is Exeter Chiefs, Exeter City, Torquay Utd and Plymouth Argyle games for me until we have new owners, minus the vile Kreuger, The Pensioner and Pensioner’s wee care assistant, who are interested in the club itself. Beyond this season, if people want line Gao’s investors pockets go for it but I and most other fans really, really didn’t want him as an owner and I can see the 08/09 14k gates in the Championship again.

 

Will happily return to SMS once they are gone irrespective of level - League One, Two, non league etc.

 

Hard to argue with this 77. I see no prospect of things changing under this management, instead it will just be more of the same until we go down. If by some fluke we have a good season it just means our assets can be sold off for more. It really is depressing.

 

I am glad that the fan base is realising now on mass exactly how we are run and where the blame lies. I expect us to have a fall from grace at least as bad as last time, yet strangely I don't fear it as we've been down that road before and i actually want us to get to rock bottom as quickly as possible so we can clear out the serpents at the top and move forward again, hopefully with a young team of academy players, attacking football, and an owner that cares.

 

I have no interest currently in paying anymore money into the board or the owner's pockets, and I know more and more fans who feel the same.

Edited 20 October, 2018 by Saint86