Replacement for Hughes

[DT]

Jardin is about to be given the boot at Monaco.

That would be a fantastic replacement.

 

Will he have to go on gardening leave though?

[the saint in winchester]

Will he have to go on gardening leave though?

 

Jardining leave.

 

Monsieur Jardin est dans le jardin. You couldn't make it up.

[Topcat]

Ross and Les dominating the transfer decisions for 3 years. 3 years that are widely agreed to be amongst the worst transfer dealings in our recent history. Changing the Manager does not fix that problem.

 

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[the saint in winchester]

Ross and Les dominating the transfer decisions for 3 years. 3 years that are widely agreed to be amongst the worst transfer dealings in our recent history. Changing the Manager does not fix that problem.

 

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

Wise words, TC. We have to get rid of Officer Dibble first.

[stevy777_x]

Reed was also there during the Koeman years, appoint the right manager and it papers over the crack of our diabolical transfer startegy of selling our best players.

[kyle04]

Reed was also there during the Koeman years, appoint the right manager and it papers over the crack of our diabolical transfer startegy of selling our best players.

 

Agree but it's a fact of life now. If any player is offered a vast signing-on fee and treble the wages do you expect them to stay out of some sense of loyalty. The standard agent-speak excuse of wanting to play in the CL is largely b******s and any player who quotes this is a total c**t. Careers are short and nests need feathering, so thanks for the leg up SFC see you later....

[stevy777_x]

Agree but it's a fact of life now. If any player is offered a vast signing-on fee and treble the wages do you expect them to stay out of some sense of loyalty. The standard agent-speak excuse of wanting to play in the CL is largely b******s and any player who quotes this is a total c**t. Careers are short and nests need feathering, so thanks for the leg up SFC see you later....

 

Agree but when we sold Van Dijk, we didn t need to spend it on 4-5 players around the 10-20 million mark who are young players with potential of succeding or not, we needed to spend it on 30-35m players that could impact the team right away and increase our quality.

 

Somebody during the fan forum asked why we could spend 30 million a player like Bournemouth and Dear old Les simply answered that it wasn’t the strategy.

Well sometimes you need to do that or also bring in a player with vast experience still in his prime who can help the group right away. Bringing in only 23-24 year olds will not help our team close out games or when the team has a mental issue, you need players who are leaders who have already done it at other clubs to help the existing ones here.

 

So all in all it is a diabolical transfer strategy of selling our best players and replacing them with only players with potential, it needs to be a right mix.

[ChiefScummer]

Hughes isn't the problem. I doubt even rafa could get our bunch of melts in form at the moment.

[aintforever]

Somebody during the fan forum asked why we could spend 30 million a player like Bournemouth and Dear old Les simply answered that it wasn’t the strategy.

 

And there you have it, the reason we are sh!t, in a nutshell.

[kyle04]

Agree but when we sold Van Dijk, we didn t need to spend it on 4-5 players around the 10-20 million mark who are young players with potential of succeding or not, we needed to spend it on 30-35m players that could impact the team right away and increase our quality.

 

Somebody during the fan forum asked why we could spend 30 million a player like Bournemouth and Dear old Les simply answered that it wasn’t the strategy.

Well sometimes you need to do that or also bring in a player with vast experience still in his prime who can help the group right away. Bringing in only 23-24 year olds will not help our team close out games or when the team has a mental issue, you need players who are leaders who have already done it at other clubs to help the existing ones here.

 

So all in all it is a diabolical transfer strategy of selling our best players and replacing them with only players with potential, it needs to be a right mix.

 

Fair enough, but we've never gone down the 30-35m player route and up until recently have got lucky generally. Carillo, Armstrong, Vest have as yet failed. Ings was a good signing. I accept that in the 10-15m bracket it's a bit of a lottery. It's a little frustrating when academy players with potential are ignored for untried and costly newcomers though. If our experts deem these academy players not good enough why in their great wisdom are we signing players of similar lack of talent ? To a trained eye it can't be that difficult surely ? Maybe it is. I remember when Clough signed Trevor Francis (1st £1m player etc), kept him on the bench for a short while to keep hid feet on the ground. Ours kept there cos we f****ed up.

Oh dear...

[Batman]

And there you have it, the reason we are sh!t, in a nutshell.

 

Totally agree.

[doddisalegend]

And there you have it, the reason we are sh!t, in a nutshell.

 

There isn't a nutshell though there is a multitude of reasons why we are poor changing just one of them won't make a difference on its own. Just taking the "we should spend more money" example we would all have happily taken Burnley's form and league position last season and they have spent **** all in PL terms, Leicester hadn't spent much when the won the league. On the other hand Everton and West Ham have thrown loads of money at their teams and have **** all to show for it.

 

As a club we seem to have no identity, plan or direction any more until that is sorted out throwing loads of money at probably wouldn't help.

[aintforever]

There isn't a nutshell though there is a multitude of reasons why we are poor changing just one of them won't make a difference on its own. Just taking the "we should spend more money" example we would all have happily taken Burnley's form and league position last season and they have spent **** all in PL terms, Leicester hadn't spent much when the won the league. On the other hand Everton and West Ham have thrown loads of money at their teams and have **** all to show for it.

 

As a club we seem to have no identity, plan or direction any more until that is sorted out throwing loads of money at probably wouldn't help.

 

It’s no necessarily the amount of money, it’s just this “strategy” we have that stops us getting players that AFC Bournemouth can get. The aim every summer should be to have the best players as possible within the budget for the start of that season, sure, ideally you want players who will increase in value and make a profit on but that shouldn’t be the aim.

[SKD]

There isn't a nutshell though there is a multitude of reasons why we are poor changing just one of them won't make a difference on its own. Just taking the "we should spend more money" example we would all have happily taken Burnley's form and league position last season and they have spent **** all in PL terms, Leicester hadn't spent much when the won the league. On the other hand Everton and West Ham have thrown loads of money at their teams and have **** all to show for it.

 

As a club we seem to have no identity, plan or direction any more until that is sorted out throwing loads of money at probably wouldn't help.

 

I think you’re pretty spot on with this.

 

Ironically, historically, our big money signings have all been pretty sh!t in terms on ROI for the club.

 

It’s easy to say x y & z club are spending £30m, why aren’t we, but I wouldn’t trust the dinlo decision makers at our club to spend £30m.

 

Simply put, to me watching our decline is just like watching Villa, Swansea and Sunderland (maybe not to their extent) of past years.

[Badger]

Hughes isn't the problem. I doubt even rafa could get our bunch of melts in form at the moment.

 

Has his own bunch of melts to deal with..

[Pilchards]

Some fantastic comments on here and I just wish sacking Hughes was the answer.

Puel, Pellegrino, Hughes.... The list of useless managers will go on because the foundations are all wrong.

IMHO We have some cracking young individual players coming through the youth ranks and we need to focus on getting them into the first team squad with a management team that will educate them further.

[JRM]

Interesting comments by Hoedt on here about that lack of defensive specific training sessions, something they did much more of in Italy. Makes you think as surely this is something Hughes would have identified we need big improvement on

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/16972495.southampton-defender-wesley-hoedt-im-really-self-critical/?ref=rss

[Maggie May]

Does anyone believe Hughes can turn this around?

[Dusic]

Re defensive yrwining and Italy - any player who has played in Italy and England has always said they do far more tactical work there. Its a far more tactical league.

 

Re Hughes - he won't turn it around. But do we trust them to get anyone better? Probably not.

 

That said, an early move gives more options.

[saint1977]

There isn't a nutshell though there is a multitude of reasons why we are poor changing just one of them won't make a difference on its own. Just taking the "we should spend more money" example we would all have happily taken Burnley's form and league position last season and they have spent **** all in PL terms, Leicester hadn't spent much when the won the league. On the other hand Everton and West Ham have thrown loads of money at their teams and have **** all to show for it.

 

As a club we seem to have no identity, plan or direction any more until that is sorted out throwing loads of money at probably wouldn't help.

 

Agree with you, not least when the record signing played 11 games for the club’s worst ever manager and then shipped off to La Ligament minnows with us covering most of the wages no doubt and he doesn’t always start either. Vestergaard now dropped. Moi yet to really produce anything tangible.

 

Our recruitment used to identify the pace of Mane, power of Victor, potential of VVD and pedigree of Bertrand and all of the League One gems - Fonte, Lambert etc. That was meshed with quality youth products.

 

As of 2016, it was very clear what the strategy was and it should have maintained. Instead, the pensioner stuck his oar in with his wee paperboy and the mess will take many years to recover from.

[ally_uk]

Isn't it about time we sack the board?

 

Chairman who is a bumbling idiot.....

Reed who has lied to fans, sold best talent and pocketed the dosh....

Scouting team that cannot scout? Recruiting a succession of failures...

 

A owner who is illusive.... Hasnt said a word since he has arrived.... Get these idiots out this club! Somebody phone rich uncle skeleton and Get him to buy us sharpish!

[Badger]

Does anyone believe Hughes can turn this around?

 

Not a particular fan of Hughes from his time prior to us but I don't hold him responsible for the current shambles. His track record doesn't suggest he has shown much to "turn things round", although to his credit since his arrival he managed to motivate the likes of Tadic over a short period.

 

At Stoke he inherited a decent defensive unit put together by Pulis, so again no great record of a well drilled defence.

 

Doubt a change of manager is the answer on its own though.

[Badger]

Isn't it about time we sack the board?

 

Chairman who is a bumbling idiot.....

Reed who has lied to fans, sold best talent and pocketed the dosh....

Scouting team that cannot scout? Recruiting a succession of failures...

 

A owner who is illusive.... Hasnt said a word since he has arrived.... Get these idiots out this club! Somebody phone rich uncle skeleton and Get him to buy us sharpish!

 

These are the three unwise monkeys who are the key problem.

 

Krueger can bumble on for all I care, providing there is something positive to "bumble" about, direction from above and performance from below.

[shurlock]

Isn't it about time we sack the board?

 

Chairman who is a bumbling idiot.....

Reed who has lied to fans, sold best talent and pocketed the dosh....

Scouting team that cannot scout? Recruiting a succession of failures...

 

A owner who is illusive.... Hasnt said a word since he has arrived.... Get these idiots out this club! Somebody phone rich uncle skeleton and Get him to buy us sharpish!

 

Love the passion! Goa must have been thinking about you when he explained why he fell in love with the club.

[Badger]

It's no wonder the likes of Hughes, Moyes and Pardew keep getting jobs. Fans make endless excuses.

 

If anyone thinks Hughes is getting even 10% of the potential out of this squad they're a fcking moron.

 

Do you feel confident that Reed & Wilson will make a better selection? Fourth time lucky!

[doddisalegend]

It's no wonder the likes of Hughes, Moyes and Pardew keep getting jobs. Fans make endless excuses.

 

If anyone thinks Hughes is getting even 10% of the potential out of this squad they're a fcking moron.

 

 

Where as you just make excuses for the players. Three different managers in three seasons. Lots of players still making the same ****ty mistakes over and over again.

[Neef]

There's a difference between Puel & Pellegrino/Hughes. Under Puel we were boring but not inept, and the shambolic defending we've seen under the later two was not present under him. When you look at our starting 11 and bench, we should be faring far better. There is quality in that team. We need a manager who is going to get the best out of them. Hughes deserved a shot as he kept us up, but we can't afford to wait as long as we did with Pellegrino. The worry is, are the board capable of selecting/finding/convincing a decent manager to come here?

[S-Clarke]

Interesting comments by Hoedt on here about that lack of defensive specific training sessions, something they did much more of in Italy. Makes you think as surely this is something Hughes would have identified we need big improvement on

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/16972495.southampton-defender-wesley-hoedt-im-really-self-critical/?ref=rss

 

He'd need a year dedicated on defending to even pass as competent.

[tajjuk]

Interesting comments by Hoedt on here about that lack of defensive specific training sessions, something they did much more of in Italy. Makes you think as surely this is something Hughes would have identified we need big improvement on

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/16972495.southampton-defender-wesley-hoedt-im-really-self-critical/?ref=rss

 

This is something that has been labelled at him in the past, I have heard similar things about his time at Stoke, they didn't really work much on defending, defensive shape etc.

 

Let's be honest a club like ours cannot expect to play ope and expansive football and outplay everyone, we need to be solid and hard to beat in most games.

 

I highlighted this issue, everyone and their mother is complaining about our defenders, but these are players who have played at the high level for good clubs, they have not suddenly become bad.

 

We simply play too open, clearly do not defend well as a team and do not have a good defensive shape.

 

There is not enough protection for the back 4, no obvious press at any level and we have two full backs that are used to bombing forward being the team's main width having consistently played over the last 4 years with inside forwards in front of them in 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 type systems, and are now playing in a 4-4-2.

 

And that is after spending all pre-season playing a back 3 with these players playing as wing-backs.

 

Hughes is not good enough, he is not a manager that is going to make us solid or get more out of the players so they play above their ability, we need to try and find that.

 

AND

 

We need to re-jig the scouting team, Les Reed and Wilson ultimately oversea player recruitment and the last 3 years they have been exceptionally poor in this area.

 

They should go and we get new blood in.

 

But I'd get a new manager at the same time.

[benjii]

This is something that has been labelled at him in the past, I have heard similar things about his time at Stoke, they didn't really work much on defending, defensive shape etc.

 

Let's be honest a club like ours cannot expect to play ope and expansive football and outplay everyone, we need to be solid and hard to beat in most games.

 

I highlighted this issue, everyone and their mother is complaining about our defenders, but these are players who have played at the high level for good clubs, they have not suddenly become bad.

 

We simply play too open, clearly do not defend well as a team and do not have a good defensive shape.

 

There is not enough protection for the back 4, no obvious press at any level and we have two full backs that are used to bombing forward being the team's main width having consistently played over the last 4 years with inside forwards in front of them in 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 type systems, and are now playing in a 4-4-2.

 

And that is after spending all pre-season playing a back 3 with these players playing as wing-backs.

 

Hughes is not good enough, he is not a manager that is going to make us solid or get more out of the players so they play above their ability, we need to try and find that.

 

AND

 

We need to re-jig the scouting team, Les Reed and Wilson ultimately oversea player recruitment and the last 3 years they have been exceptionally poor in this area.

 

They should go and we get new blood in.

 

But I'd get a new manager at the same time.

 

Agree with all that but we would need decisive leadership to deliver that and we don't seem to have it.

[The9]

Honestly, what would be the point of replacing the manager? Everyone since Koeman has done precisely what they've been told and played basically the exact same system, with the two exceptions of when we were dismal under Koeman and he went to 3/5 at the back, and the same thing when Hughes took over.

 

It's not the manager picking the system, and judging by certain selections (looking at you, Stephens 2017 and Hoedt), it's not the manager with the final say on the team either.

 

Same system, different results due to recruitment being more competitive, us not shifting our transfer position despite the huge change in available funds to all Premier League clubs, and the system itself being so well worn and familiar that everyone knows how to stop it, as well as it only really working when you have good enough players to create and finish within that system.

 

So, none of that is down to Hughes, just as it wasn't down to Puel or Koeman.

 

Pellegrino I'll happily accept was useless even considering all of the factors above.

[OttawaSaint]

Too bad we don’t have a guy like Puel who could organize a defence and make us hard to beat...

[The9]

This is something that has been labelled at him in the past, I have heard similar things about his time at Stoke, they didn't really work much on defending, defensive shape etc.

 

Which is weird considering 95% of his reputation was built on Wales and Blackburn being defensive and difficult to break down even with less talented players.

 

We've got much, MUCH worse at preventing balls getting to the defence since Lemina and Hojbjerg pitched up though. The problem isn't just giving the ball away up the pitch, it's being wrong side in midfield, not closing down quickly and winning it back before the opposition has the chance to do anything. I'm sure Kante's rapid sweeping up of the one loose ball on Sunday is burned in everyone's mind - we used to be like that throughout the team, but now we're just reactive.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Honestly, what would be the point of replacing the manager? Everyone since Koeman has done precisely what they've been told and played basically the exact same system, with the two exceptions of when we were dismal under Koeman and he went to 3/5 at the back, and the same thing when Hughes took over.

 

It's not the manager picking the system, and judging by certain selections (looking at you, Stephens 2017 and Hoedt), it's not the manager with the final say on the team either.

 

Same system, different results due to recruitment being more competitive, us not shifting our transfer position despite the huge change in available funds to all Premier League clubs, and the system itself being so well worn and familiar that everyone knows how to stop it, as well as it only really working when you have good enough players to create and finish within that system.

 

So, none of that is down to Hughes, just as it wasn't down to Puel or Koeman.

 

Pellegrino I'll happily accept was useless even considering all of the factors above.

 

The definition of insanity, is, doing the exact same ****ing thing over and over again, expecting **** to change.

 

At least give ourselves a chance. It's not as if Hughes has a decent recent record, and Puel was decent for us, so anyone between those 2 would be good enough for me. And finding someone better than Hughes is a pretty ****ing easy thing to do - 19 of the teams in our division have managed to do it.

[The9]

Too bad we don’t have a guy like Puel who could organize a defence and make us hard to beat...

 

Shrug thing goes here... I'm long past beating the "I was right, thickoes were not" drum on that one. We lost all the "waaaaah, boring team" people who would have decided not to come back with our dire performances under Pellegrino the season after anyway.

[Badger]

The definition of insanity, is, doing the exact same ****ing thing over and over again, expecting **** to change.

 

At least give ourselves a chance. It's not as if Hughes has a decent recent record, and Puel was decent for us, so anyone between those 2 would be good enough for me. And finding someone better than Hughes is a pretty ****ing easy thing to do - 19 of the teams in our division have managed to do it.

 

None of whom are impeded by the muppetry of Reed & Wilson making the selection though.

[The9]

The definition of insanity, is, doing the exact same ****ing thing over and over again, expecting **** to change.

 

At least give ourselves a chance. It's not as if Hughes has a decent recent record, and Puel was decent for us, so anyone between those 2 would be good enough for me. And finding someone better than Hughes is a pretty ****ing easy thing to do - 19 of the teams in our division have managed to do it.

 

I don't know what you think my post was saying, but I was clearly saying we are doing the same thing anyway, irrespective of the manager.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Which is weird considering 95% of his reputation was built on Wales and Blackburn being defensive and difficult to break down even with less talented players.

 

We've got much, MUCH worse at preventing balls getting to the defence since Lemina and Hojbjerg pitched up though. The problem isn't just giving the ball away up the pitch, it's being wrong side in midfield, not closing down quickly and winning it back before the opposition has the chance to do anything. I'm sure Kante's rapid sweeping up of the one loose ball on Sunday is burned in everyone's mind - we used to be like that throughout the team, but now we're just reactive.

 

Peak Ryan Nelsen and Christopher Samba are far better than what we have now - what you talking about?

[shurlock]

Honestly, what would be the point of replacing the manager? Everyone since Koeman has done precisely what they've been told and played basically the exact same system, with the two exceptions of when we were dismal under Koeman and he went to 3/5 at the back, and the same thing when Hughes took over.

 

It's not the manager picking the system, and judging by certain selections (looking at you, Stephens 2017 and Hoedt), it's not the manager with the final say on the team either.

 

Same system, different results due to recruitment being more competitive, us not shifting our transfer position despite the huge change in available funds to all Premier League clubs, and the system itself being so well worn and familiar that everyone knows how to stop it, as well as it only really working when you have good enough players to create and finish within that system.

 

So, none of that is down to Hughes, just as it wasn't down to Puel or Koeman.

 

Pellegrino I'll happily accept was useless even considering all of the factors above.

 

So who’s picking the team and formation?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I don't know what you think my post was saying, but I was clearly saying we are doing the same thing anyway, irrespective of the manager.

 

But the point is we may as well try to change the Manager - we are going down based on current form, so why not gamble?

[The9]

Peak Ryan Nelsen and Christopher Samba are far better than what we have now - what you talking about?

 

When they came 6th under Hughes their only 5 defenders with more than 8 matches were

 

Lucas Neill

Zurab Khizanishvili

Andy Todd

Ryan Nelsen

Michael Gray

 

Which is not that much better than our current lot when you consider 5 of them had to be on the pitch.

 

Samba signed (and only played 19 matches) the following season when they were 10th.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

When they came 6th under Hughes their only 5 defenders with more than 8 matches were

 

Lucas Neill

Zurab Khizanishvili

Andy Todd

Ryan Nelsen

Michael Gray

 

Which is not that much better than our current lot when you consider 5 of them had to be on the pitch.

 

Samba signed (and only played 19 matches) the following season when they were 10th.

 

So what would you say the issue is now? Why are we not conceding 42 goals over a season with our current players?

 

I would say it's due to the fact that Hughes has lost any ability he had to coach a defence, wouldn't you? He has been on a downward trend.

[The9]

So who’s picking the team and formation?

 

No idea, but if I had to take a punt I'd say Reed sets the formation for the entire club which would clearly be his preference for the first team, and "the committee" leans heavily on the manager when determining whether we pick rubbish centre backs who we desperately want to increase in value so we can sell them.

 

The whole theory about Les being too involved comes from Koeman getting slated when he left for not being in tune with the club ethos - which seemed to be about not picking the kids and bringing in Elia and Djuricic instead, and changing the formation (to wing backs to get us out of a slump). No-one since then has challenged the prescribed formation or system for any amount of time, though where the "was a second DM once" plays and where the bloke in the hole plays have been tweaked with the personnel (notably with some success for Ings, because he's too good to leave out or leave up top on his own to starve like everyone since Pelle).

 

Fundamentally the problem is that the players clearly aren't as good as the ones that got us to the top 8, but a reluctance since Koeman to challenge "the Southampton Way" hasn't done us any favours either.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

No idea, but if I had to take a punt I'd say Reed sets the formation for the entire club which would clearly be his preference for the first team, and "the committee" leans heavily on the manager when determining whether we pick rubbish centre backs who we desperately want to increase in value so we can sell them.

 

The whole theory about Les being too involved comes from Koeman getting slated when he left for not being in tune with the club ethos - which seemed to be about not picking the kids and bringing in Elia and Djuricic instead, and changing the formation (to wing backs to get us out of a slump). No-one since then has challenged the prescribed formation or system for any amount of time, though where the "was a second DM once" plays and where the bloke in the hole plays have been tweaked with the personnel (notably with some success for Ings, because he's too good to leave out or leave up top on his own to starve like everyone since Pelle).

 

Fundamentally the problem is that the players clearly aren't as good as the ones that got us to the top 8, but a reluctance since Koeman to challenge "the Southampton Way" hasn't done us any favours either.

 

One of the main reasons for bringing in Hughes was that he wouldn't bow to this pressure.

 

If I were putting pressure on the Manager, I would be making him play all our record signings - which hasn't really happened under Pellegrino and Hughes.

[The9]

So what would you say the issue is now? Why are we not conceding 42 goals over a season with our current players?

 

I would say it's due to the fact that Hughes has lost any ability he had to coach a defence, wouldn't you? He has been on a downward trend.

 

Player ability and recruitment has been dubious, there's only so much you can do when some of your players just don't execute properly.

 

Not sure why Romeu is suddenly struggling when he looked good alongside Ward-Prowse under Puel, but he, Lemina and Hojbjerg were all a lot worse than they are now for much of December til April last season.

 

Tbh I've already spent far too much time trying to work out someone else's problem here, it's one of the reasons I'm not on here much any more.

[The9]

One of the main reasons for bringing in Hughes was that he wouldn't bow to this pressure.

 

If I were putting pressure on the Manager, I would be making him play all our record signings - which hasn't really happened under Pellegrino and Hughes.

 

And as I said in the summer, we were playing wing backs to get us out of trouble and Hughes likes a back 5, let's see whether that lasts when he's got a permanent contract. Despite some hopeful signs with the formation in pre-season, we reverted to a 4 as soon as things got a bit hairy ( until last weekend's bus-parking attempt).

 

It's a fair point about the signings, though it was obvious to everyone that Carrillo ceased to be a factor that needed to be considered when Pellegrino left. Boufal I think I'd probably still be arguing about too, though as with Gaston, time will probably show he just hasn't got the solidity you need in the Premier League.

[verlaine1979]

No idea, but if I had to take a punt I'd say Reed sets the formation for the entire club which would clearly be his preference for the first team, and "the committee" leans heavily on the manager when determining whether we pick rubbish centre backs who we desperately want to increase in value so we can sell them.

 

The whole theory about Les being too involved comes from Koeman getting slated when he left for not being in tune with the club ethos - which seemed to be about not picking the kids and bringing in Elia and Djuricic instead, and changing the formation (to wing backs to get us out of a slump). No-one since then has challenged the prescribed formation or system for any amount of time, though where the "was a second DM once" plays and where the bloke in the hole plays have been tweaked with the personnel (notably with some success for Ings, because he's too good to leave out or leave up top on his own to starve like everyone since Pelle).

 

Fundamentally the problem is that the players clearly aren't as good as the ones that got us to the top 8, but a reluctance since Koeman to challenge "the Southampton Way" hasn't done us any favours either.

 

Eh? Puel, MP and Hughes have all deviated from the 4-2-3-1 template the club were meant to play across all age groups. After starting out with 45 minutes of five at the back, haven't we been playing an old-fashioned flat 4-4-2 in most of our games this season?

 

The problem with the club isn't that we're sticking too closely to a philosophy or identity, it's that we've let go of ours completely in both tactics and recruitment, and are now floundering in a sea of received wisdom about what-you-need-to-do-to-stay-up.

[redkeith]

Eh? Puel, MP and Hughes have all deviated from the 4-2-3-1 template the club were meant to play across all age groups. After starting out with 45 minutes of five at the back, haven't we been playing an old-fashioned flat 4-4-2 in most of our games this season?

 

The problem with the club isn't that we're sticking too closely to a philosophy or identity, it's that we've let go of ours completely in both tactics and recruitment, and are now floundering in a sea of received wisdom about what-you-need-to-do-to-stay-up.

 

Agree with this completely.

 

If you look at the make up of the squad, we have only one right back and two natural wide midfield players, and yet we are trying to play 4-4-2 . Pied, Boufal and Sims have not been replaced at all. Teams like Bournemouth have a bench packed with pace to hurt teams late in matches, we have Davis and Armstrong.

 

Under Koeman we played 4-3-3 , but with a defensive minded player like Davis in the number 10 role and the kids played more or less the same. Now we have signed a more attacking 10 in Armstrong, but play him as a winger, which ironically is what got Koeman the sack at Everton.

 

For the first 4 years after promotion we played of a target man and did well. 2 and a bit years on we are still playing the ball up to Ings/Long/Austin or Gabbi and wondering why it wont stick.

[Bstokesaint]

I’m not really sure what more Hughes can do? He has a bang average squad which is where it should be in the table. Looking at our signings over the last few seasons survival is the target. We’ve always had a sprinkling of real talent but there literally is nothing left now. McCarthy has done well, Bertrand is steady, Ings will keep us up if he stays fit. Lemina/Hojberg would look ok in a better side but I think that’s about it and I imagine they will both be gone in the summer.

 

I think the club is now working on the basis that there must be 3 teams worse than us each season

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I’m not really sure what more Hughes can do? He has a bang average squad which is where it should be in the table. Looking at our signings over the last few seasons survival is the target. We’ve always had a sprinkling of real talent but there literally is nothing left now. McCarthy has done well, Bertrand is steady, Ings will keep us up if he stays fit. Lemina/Hojberg would look ok in a better side but I think that’s about it and I imagine they will both be gone in the summer.

 

I think the club is now working on the basis that there must be 3 teams worse than us each season

 

There are more than 3 teams worse than us, player for player. The disadvantage we have is we have the second worst manager in the league.