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Replacement for Hughes

Bad Wolf

By Bad Wolf,
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adrian lord

adrian lord

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Posted (edited)

No one wants Big Sam of course because his advent at any club means you are staring relegation in the face and he is required to perform his annual Houdini act.

 

Unfortunately, my crystal ball has swirling imagery of Gao sat at a Formica board table, picking up a phone with Reed stood behind him looking very fat and sweaty, and Goa is dialling Sam. The large Saints Crest clock in the background above an empty trophy cabinet, has the date 19 January 2019....

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Three different managers in three seasons no noticeable improvement in the team...tells you a lot about our players

 

If we sack Hughes and get another manager our transformation into Sunderland/Villa/ Swansea will be complete as we become one of those teams clinging to PL survival with a bloated squad of ****e players hoping for a "new manager bounce" every season to scrap enough points to stay up by the skin of our teeth.

 

In the end though changing the manager won't make much difference the club needs an overhaul from the owner down to the squad which won't realistically happen...so we are ****ed

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Three different managers in three seasons no noticeable improvement in the team...tells you a lot about our players

 

If we sack Hughes and get another manager our transformation into Sunderland/Villa/ Swansea will be complete as we become one of those teams clinging to PL survival with a bloated squad of ****e players hoping for a "new manager bounce" every season to scrap enough points to stay up by the skin of our teeth.

 

In the end though changing the manager won't make much difference the club needs an overhaul from the owner down to the squad which won't realistically happen...so we are ****ed

Correct. We're spiralling down the plughole.

 

Any replacement manager will be by their very nature yet another short term appointment. And if they keep us up then what.

 

I'm not saying keep Hughes, if we sacked him today, fine. I just think the club is rotten and nothing is going to change that quickly.

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Dalek2003

Dalek2003

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Correct. We're spiralling down the plughole.

 

Any replacement manager will be by their very nature yet another short term appointment. And if they keep us up then what.

 

I'm not saying keep Hughes, if we sacked him today, fine. I just think the club is rotten and nothing is going to change that quickly.

 

We have tried replacing managers and it hasn't worked. Hughes is doing his best with a bloated squad full of ordinary players. We may survive, but it will be close. I just think we have to get behind Hughes and the team and hope for the best.

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Topcat

Topcat

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We have tried replacing managers and it hasn't worked. Hughes is doing his best with a bloated squad full of ordinary players. We may survive, but it will be close. I just think we have to get behind Hughes and the team and hope for the best.

"a bloated squad full of ordinary players" many of which are used to losing.

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Dalek2003

Dalek2003

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"a bloated squad full of ordinary players" many of which are used to losing.

 

That they are 'used to losing' is a problem in itself. Football is a 'confidence' game. Saints is very fragile, hence why they tend to sit back and protect leads instead of killing off the opposition aka Brighton. Or as yesterday give away a goal and then another soon after. To some extent Hughes was right, we need a win and a get a bit of luck.

Not saying that will propel us to the top 6, but it will help us avoid relegation.

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westmidlandsaint

westmidlandsaint

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The last 3 appointments have not worked out which makes you think there is a bigger problem at the heart of the club. We replace Hughes and we’ll be in the same situation in 6 months. It’s time for wholesale changes starting with Les & Ross. Their recent track record is abysmal. We should have gone all out to get Paul Mitchell back from a player recruitment side and if Hughes goes then for me I’d like to see Rodgers or Benitez

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Micky

Micky

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Darren Moore. Has quietly gone about business at West Brom with a phenomenal win rate. He could well be one for the future. Or of course he could just fizzle out.
As a relatively new manager would you rather work at a club on the up, where confidence is high and there is a good chance of success at the end of the season. Or work for a similar sized club where confidence is shot and it is highly likely to end in relegation at the end of the season? Irrespective of whether West Brom get promoted this season I think his stock will be raised a lot more with them than with us.

 

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st.bangkok

st.bangkok

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But he damn near kept them up last season when they were seriously dead and buried. If he had taken over 2 or 3 games earlier, they would have sent us down. So he proved he could do it with a club already down and out, turning them into winner immediately last season when they were rock bottom.

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kyle04

kyle04

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But he damn near kept them up last season when they were seriously dead and buried. If he had taken over 2 or 3 games earlier, they would have sent us down. So he proved he could do it with a club already down and out, turning them into winner immediately last season when they were rock bottom.

 

True, though same could be said of Hughes to some extent which is why I suppose we kept him on. One thing that did change last season when Hughes stepped in was the fighting spirit which had evaporated under Mope, and despite his record at Stoke many were cautiously optimistic. I don't know where thats gone , although in the 2 pre-season home games (Celta and Borussia) we looked very underprepared and unfit (especially Lemina). In a way our "easy" starting run has done us no favours (at least Newcastle for example have played 4 of the "top 6" already and only lost each by the odd goal).

I still believe we have a half decent side within our squad somewhere and MH needs to find it. Austin needs to go immediately, whatever attributes he had are gone. Long also offers very little. Hoedt is a liability. Redmond is trying but is aimless. Vest looks out of his depth. Lemina and Bertie look disinterested most of the time.

A tough nut to crack.....

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

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People don't half make a lot of excuses for managers. Not just our club either. People don't seem to be able to comprehend a club just appointing a series a rubbish managers. Must be something else entirely. Must be the players, who've been changed already. Who've looked confused, demotivated and off form. Must be them. So sign a load more, then moan about them when the same thing happens again.

 

We appointed an average manager and started to go backwards, then appointed 2 absolutely dire managers.

 

We've spent money, brought in loads of players. Some better than others but it's irrelevant when so many are off form. Tactics and selections never help our players, they change all the time, no one looks settled or happy. It's the manager's job to get players on form, get them in a coherent team with a set playing style and get results. You don't just give up on expensive playing assets when they lose form. Clubs are size need to be more intelligent than that and actually prioritise decent coaching.

 

I refuse to believe there aren't some decent young coaches in Europe who could give this squad some confidence and get us playing attacking football. Ings, Elynoussi, Redmond, Gabbiadini gives potential for decent attacking movement. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Lemina have quality WHEN they're organised and on form. Bertrand and Cedric have shown they can do it in the past. Vesterguard looks alright but needs a decent partner.

 

Honestly the only player I'm really not sure can cut it is Hoedt. The others all have the potential to come good. Hoedt just looks a liability. No clue why we aren't playing Yoshi with Vesterguard.

 

So, decent manager, back to 433/4231, no more Long or Austin, and some positivity around the place please. Wish I could keep getting good jobs on a record like Hughes. 1 home win ever for Saints and that was down to McCarthy having a great game. 1 win this season thanks to Zaha being injured, even though we've had a good set of fixtures. He will take us down.

 

For those not blaming the manager - I guarantee you, that Wolves squad managed by Mark Hughes would be struggling badly. Last season's Burnley squad would have been fighting relegation under Hughes or Pellegrino. Stop obsessing over signings and wake up.

 

"Thanks to Zaha being injured" - You can apply that sort of logic to literally any game ever in the history of football.

 

Literally all of that post is down to variables and opinion.

 

We'll never know.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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But he damn near kept them up last season when they were seriously dead and buried. If he had taken over 2 or 3 games earlier, they would have sent us down. So he proved he could do it with a club already down and out, turning them into winner immediately last season when they were rock bottom.
Darren Moore is a former West Brom player and had been there as a coach for years before taking over. He's from Birmingham and played for several Midlands clubs. Clear affinity with area, club and fans, right man at right time. Popular appointment with WBA fans.

 

The idea that is transferable to him strolling into St Mary's and pulling off the same trick is pretty fanciful.

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Nordic Saint

Nordic Saint

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Darren Moore as manager with Paul Mitchell as DOF would be good. But, until Les Reed can be persuaded to retire, it's very unlikely we'll get anyone good. Also as West Brom and RB Leipzig are flying high and it's rumoured Man Utd want Mitchell, they probably wouldn't want to come here now anyway.

 

Lethargy and laziness seem to have permeated our club from top to bottom. We really need someone dynamic and ambitious at the helm to inject some energy and enthusiasm into it.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Darren Moore as manager with Paul Mitchell as DOF would be good. But, until Les Reed can be persuaded to retire, it's very unlikely we'll get anyone good. Also as West Brom and RB Leipzig are flying high and it's rumoured Man Utd want Mitchell, they probably wouldn't want to come here now anyway.

 

Lethargy and laziness seem to have permeated our club from top to bottom. We really need someone dynamic and ambitious at the helm to inject some energy and enthusiasm into it.

2/10.
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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

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Darren Moore is a former West Brom player and had been there as a coach for years before taking over. He's from Birmingham and played for several Midlands clubs. Clear affinity with area, club and fans, right man at right time. Popular appointment with WBA fans.

 

The idea that is transferable to him strolling into St Mary's and pulling off the same trick is pretty fanciful.

 

This. I like him, really lovely guy so it seems, genuine bloke however that's the reason for his success. He might be a good manager, he might not be. I don't think we can base anything on his time with WBA, at least not just yet.

 

We see it time and time again where a manager steps in as caretaker, works wonders, leaves the club, gets another job and then fails.

 

Promising start though, no doubt.

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Toon Saint

Toon Saint

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Posted

Has to be Brendan Rogers if Hughes gets the chop. At least he’s a manager with a philosophy that will give Les an excuse to prattle on about a return to a possession-based playing style.

 

Anything else would be an admission of the mess of a club we’ve become: gripped by short-termism, without a coherent plan at boardroom level, and with no discernible playing identity. That Guardian article about us resembling a stale, eggy fart must surely have Les rattled.

 

 

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Red

Red

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Problem really is endemic throughout the entire club/set up, and the only way to recovery is to start at the top. If Gao does not want to change, then rest is merely shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. No one (and certainly not me) knows the real motivation behind his purchase of our club, and certainly should have been the first question at the fans forum should have been that, followed by where are the 5 pledges that were due in Feb Ralph?

 

Even if we go by the popular theory Gao bought us to curry favour with the Chinese leader and get awarded lucrative local football projects, surely he realises that is better done via a success with us - who wants a failure to lead more projects (ok, other than Saints :-()? It would not cost Gao any more to change the leadership and get more accountability in to the running of our club. Also, where is Kat, who said she wanted to stay involved to ensure we progress? Something is not right - you do not spend £200M odd and let it just rot. After all, it is not loose change for him, and yes it is a loan, but currently still against him personally.

 

Just don't get it. Wolves on the other hand are a much better example of Chinese investment and their owners more deserving of any local Chinese investment. Still at the end of the day, it's just another phase in our history, and hope I am still around for the next positive one which might be some time away unfortunately.

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Badger

Badger

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Posted
Weren't we looking at German managers before?

 

What about Markus Weinzierl, young manager, was manager at Schalke

 

Was sacked there though.

 

Interesting article about up and coming managers in Europe :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45525005

 

Trouble is of course there is a gamble in whether they adapt to EPL, and coming in under the current circumstances doesn't allow any bedding in period.

 

At the start of the season, Schalke's manager Tedesco appeared an up and coming coach, but lost the first five there this season. Anyway, isn't trying to secure the 'up and coming' continental coach one of the reasons we are in the current mess ?

 

Above all, not sure that Reed & Wilson can be entrusted with the selection.

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Badger

Badger

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What's happened to all the Gary Rowett fan-boys?

 

He's definitely still brilliant, right?

 

Yes, all going well at Stoke...

 

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/282821/rowett-out

 

I never saw the merit there other than Reed had met him on a training course, and he was young and English, plus had a neatly trimmed beard to go with the image...

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Posted
Get rid of “showcase club” Reed and “small club” Krueger.

 

Bring Cortese back and then watch the club pick back up is mojo.

 

When Hughes goes, get Rodgers in.

 

You think Cortese would have any success under a Chinese owner who wants a self sufficient club that just ticks over with no investment? Not a chance.

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

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Posted
You think Cortese would have any success under a Chinese owner who wants a self sufficient club that just ticks over with no investment? Not a chance.

 

Cortese took us from bottom of league one to the Premier league while building a new training ground and keeping our best players and did it with a small (in football terms) overdraft.

 

We have a squad costing £300 million now so let's not try to pretend our struggles are due to full penny pinching

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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You think Cortese would have any success under a Chinese owner who wants a self sufficient club that just ticks over with no investment? Not a chance.

 

Anyway, Nicola is such a respected figure in the game,it would be hard to get him away from the top club he’s been working for since he left Saints.

 

 

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Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

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People don't half make a lot of excuses for managers. Not just our club either. People don't seem to be able to comprehend a club just appointing a series a rubbish managers. Must be something else entirely. Must be the players, who've been changed already. Who've looked confused, demotivated and off form. Must be them. So sign a load more, then moan about them when the same thing happens again.

 

We appointed an average manager and started to go backwards, then appointed 2 absolutely dire managers.

 

We've spent money, brought in loads of players. Some better than others but it's irrelevant when so many are off form. Tactics and selections never help our players, they change all the time, no one looks settled or happy. It's the manager's job to get players on form, get them in a coherent team with a set playing style and get results. You don't just give up on expensive playing assets when they lose form. Clubs are size need to be more intelligent than that and actually prioritise decent coaching.

 

I refuse to believe there aren't some decent young coaches in Europe who could give this squad some confidence and get us playing attacking football. Ings, Elynoussi, Redmond, Gabbiadini gives potential for decent attacking movement. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Lemina have quality WHEN they're organised and on form. Bertrand and Cedric have shown they can do it in the past. Vesterguard looks alright but needs a decent partner.

 

Honestly the only player I'm really not sure can cut it is Hoedt. The others all have the potential to come good. Hoedt just looks a liability. No clue why we aren't playing Yoshi with Vesterguard.

 

So, decent manager, back to 433/4231, no more Long or Austin, and some positivity around the place please. Wish I could keep getting good jobs on a record like Hughes. 1 home win ever for Saints and that was down to McCarthy having a great game. 1 win this season thanks to Zaha being injured, even though we've had a good set of fixtures. He will take us down.

 

For those not blaming the manager - I guarantee you, that Wolves squad managed by Mark Hughes would be struggling badly. Last season's Burnley squad would have been fighting relegation under Hughes or Pellegrino. Stop obsessing over signings and wake up.

 

Complete drivel. You keep making excuses for the players, in your eyes it's never their fault.

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aintforever

aintforever

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Posted
People don't half make a lot of excuses for managers. Not just our club either. People don't seem to be able to comprehend a club just appointing a series a rubbish managers. Must be something else entirely. Must be the players, who've been changed already. Who've looked confused, demotivated and off form. Must be them. So sign a load more, then moan about them when the same thing happens again.

 

We appointed an average manager and started to go backwards, then appointed 2 absolutely dire managers.

 

We've spent money, brought in loads of players. Some better than others but it's irrelevant when so many are off form. Tactics and selections never help our players, they change all the time, no one looks settled or happy. It's the manager's job to get players on form, get them in a coherent team with a set playing style and get results. You don't just give up on expensive playing assets when they lose form. Clubs are size need to be more intelligent than that and actually prioritise decent coaching.

 

I refuse to believe there aren't some decent young coaches in Europe who could give this squad some confidence and get us playing attacking football. Ings, Elynoussi, Redmond, Gabbiadini gives potential for decent attacking movement. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Lemina have quality WHEN they're organised and on form. Bertrand and Cedric have shown they can do it in the past. Vesterguard looks alright but needs a decent partner.

 

Honestly the only player I'm really not sure can cut it is Hoedt. The others all have the potential to come good. Hoedt just looks a liability. No clue why we aren't playing Yoshi with Vesterguard.

 

So, decent manager, back to 433/4231, no more Long or Austin, and some positivity around the place please. Wish I could keep getting good jobs on a record like Hughes. 1 home win ever for Saints and that was down to McCarthy having a great game. 1 win this season thanks to Zaha being injured, even though we've had a good set of fixtures. He will take us down.

 

For those not blaming the manager - I guarantee you, that Wolves squad managed by Mark Hughes would be struggling badly. Last season's Burnley squad would have been fighting relegation under Hughes or Pellegrino. Stop obsessing over signings and wake up.

 

Can’t agree with that, our squad is a mess. Defensively we’re OK but we are so short of creativity going forward. We were poor in that area last season and all we have done is get rid of Tadic and Boufal and replaced them with poorer alternatives. We havn’t even stood still, we’ve gone backwards, and that’s a dangerous game to play when you’ve stayed up by the skin of your teeth.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Posted
Can’t agree with that, our squad is a mess. Defensively we’re OK but we are so short of creativity going forward. We were poor in that area last season and all we have done is get rid of Tadic and Boufal and replaced them with poorer alternatives. We havn’t even stood still, we’ve gone backwards, and that’s a dangerous game to play when you’ve stayed up by the skin of your teeth.

 

errmmm what?

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aintforever

aintforever

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Posted
errmmm what?

 

I think personel wise we are. Two good keepers plus Lurch if there is a crisis, decent full backs with OK cover, 4 OK centre backs to choose from plus Hoot. Defensive midfield is not that weak. With a bit of organisation what we have should easily be enough to keep us up - Puel went half a season with Stephens and Yoshida at the back and kept us defensively sound - those two can't even make the team.

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tajjuk

tajjuk

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Defensive issues IMO are less to do with personnel and more to do with the whole team's shape and discipline.

 

Like someone said in another thread, we were solid defensively under Puel playing half a season with Stephens and Yoshida, whilst despite people claiming we were boring, IIRC we were creating some of the best chances outside the top 6.

 

Key to that was a solid defensive mid and team that knew their shape and roles.

 

Now we are playing 4-4-2, with no defensive mid, partly not helped by Romeus alarming drop in form, and neither Hojberg or Lemina being disciplined enough for that role. Plus there seems to be no collective idea on shape or press, which you pretty much need to have in the modern game, basically defending from the front.

 

Plus we have also abandoned the more possession based approach we had under Puel and Pellegrino, which obviously keeping the ball restricted the opposition putting pressure on our defence.

 

So no press, no possession and no dedicated defensive mid protecting the back 4, but still two full backs who have spent the last 4 years flying forward and being the team's main width.

 

Plus a whole pre-season playing a back 3.

 

The likes of Hoedt and Vestergaard have come from relatively good teams in their leagues, who would have good possession, a solid system, a press in front of them and a DM shielding them.

 

They have now been transported into playing some semi-direct 4-4-2.

 

Is it any surprise that we are conceding goals and our defenders are making mistakes?

 

Read that article above about up and coming coaches and particularly this point -

 

"They all seem to have flexibility tactically, they like high pressure and like work without the ball," said Football Daily Euro Leagues presenter Guillem Balague.

 

"They like defenders to be comfortable with the ball, play inside forwards, and have mobile centre forwards.

 

"They use technology, look to embrace support staff rather than overpower as previous managers might have done, and want to be on the grass coaching, not running the club from top to bottom."

 

How much of that do you think applies to Hughes?

 

Any of those managers are worth a gamble IMO and would probably want a PL job.

 

Rodgers has a clear philosophy and must be bored with Scotland by now, wanting another crack at the PL.

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