aintforever Posted 12 November, 2018 Share Posted 12 November, 2018 With the common factor being that we conceded late goals in all of those games, showing that we are unable to maintain defensive concentration over 95 minutes. It was nothing to do with luck. Perhaps harsh to blame it on Hughes as he had only just joined and the damage had already been done by Pellegrino, but you can't call it bad luck. Sure, if you are good enough you take luck out of the equation but it’s nonsense to suggest there is not an element of luck in football. My point was that we put in half decent performances and came close to getting better results despite the team’s confidence being shot through thanks to Pellegrino. Hughes was fire-fighting from day one last year, however **** we are this season it’s complete rubbish to say he didn’t do a good job last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 12 November, 2018 Share Posted 12 November, 2018 You must not point out tiny details like this. It’s way too hard for many on here to think through. Leave them alone Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangelyBrown Posted 12 November, 2018 Share Posted 12 November, 2018 In some ways he's better in some ways he's worse, the football is much more aesthetically pleasing to watch but he hasn't been able to set a team out to hold onto a lead and seems to think a certain player in particular is undroppable.....In what way is the football more aesthetically pleasing? We're playing some of the wrost stuff I've seen in years. There is literally nothing progressive or innovative about it. We have become the antithesis of the supposed Southampton way; **** football, no progression from the academy and doing nothing that sets us apart from the rest. Depressing times. Sent from my Lenovo TB-X304F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fen Posted 12 November, 2018 Share Posted 12 November, 2018 If the ref gets the decisions right he spots their handball in the build up to their penalty shout and it doesn't even get that far ! All if and buts. Fact is 1 win in 12 and 3 in 20......never going to be good enough. Even if we won Saturday does it change anything. Does Hughes suddenly become a good manager, no not at all. We are not fit enough hence we concede so many late goals and are always on the back foot. At Stoke they said training wasn’t intense and isn’t that the rumours here. We can’t hold onto a lead, we don’t score goals and he doesn’t know his best team or tactics. There are very few positives to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 12 November, 2018 Share Posted 12 November, 2018 Well he’s clearly not going any time soon. This season is so depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintMB Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 As soon as we cross the halfway line with the ball, we go to pieces. I can't recall the last time we put teams under as much pressure as we ourselves face in the second half of games. It's ugly football to watch with next to no redeeming features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 There is no way Hughes will go now. In the short term, the firing of Reed has secured his job. The new DoF will have his ideas and want his own man & coaching team, and that may take a while to define after the DoF is appointed. Until then, Hughes will continue. Which means, considering how fast we move on such things and that Wreck-It is in charge of this appointment, that nothing on-field will change, even then at first we have a certain inertia to overcome, so we are as good as down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 There is no way Hughes will go now. In the short term, the firing of Reed has secured his job. The new DoF will have his ideas and want his own man & coaching team, and that may take a while to define after the DoF is appointed. Until then, Hughes will continue. Which means, considering how fast we move on such things and that Wreck-It is in charge of this appointment, that nothing on-field will change, even then at first we have a certain inertia to overcome, so we are as good as down.That's true but I think if we lose to Fulham then they've got to be at least thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Fulham will beat us and then at least they might shift Hughes. Good excuse. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Fulham will beat us and then at least they might shift Hughes. Good excuse. Do you not even consider the possibility the squad may be the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Do you not even consider the possibility the squad may be the issue? We have some real die hard axe grinders who are incapable of even considering this isn't Hughes' fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Do you not even consider the possibility the squad may be the issue? Hughes is the one sending out a paper-thin 4-4-2 week after week, despite the fact that pretty much our entire squad was recruited to play a different formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Do you not even consider the possibility the squad may be the issue? Clearly there are glaring weaknesses in our squad, but they should still be good enough for more than the single paltry win we have managed this season. We play well for periods in games, then go to pieces whenever we get put under any pressure, and Hughes makes it worse by making the wrong subs and taking away any momentum we have. Bringing on JWP when you're trying to shore things up in midfield, as he has done a number of times recently, is never going to work. But he still keeps doing it and doesn't learn. It's taken him 6 months to recognise that Gabbi is the best attacking player we have and to actually give him a start. Lo and behold, he has a good game, scores, and looks dangerous. No doubt he will be dropped again for the Fulham game. He still can't decide on his best starting back four, and insists on playing Hoedt no matter how awful he may have been in his previous performances. He brings in Stephens, who actually looks quite solid, then inexplicably drops him completely. A settled, regular back four is one of the most important aspects of any team. A manager with Hughes' experience should know this. So yes, the playing squad is not great, but neither is it as bad as our league position suggests. A decent manager would be able to organise and motivate them to perform much better than they currently are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 (edited) Listening to the R.Solent interview with Hughes on my way to the match, it appeared that he wasn't happy with amount of interference he was getting from Reed. He said that he had little say in transfers and that the 3 who came in the summer were more or less decided before he was given the permanent job. Adam Blackmore and Dave Merrington went on to say that one of the reasons that Koeman left was that he wanted to run the first team without interference and he should decide who was bought and sold. His focus was on winning games and he had little interest in developing young players. The fact that the management didn't share this single-minded approach lead him to believe that the Club lacked ambition and so off he went. As much as the immediate reaction might be to think this is a problem, I actually think this is close to the right setup. The manager should certainly have a say in the transfer by identifying where the team needs improving and being part of the team reviewing the targets, but in general I'm not sure he should be saying "we need to get this player or that player". He's paid for man management, tactics and coaching. Not scouting. In fact, this is one reason I thought Hughes might be an ok appointment, because one of his failures at previous clubs was paying lots of money for average players, and perhaps our setup would prevent that. But, at the same time, such a setup also depends on the club's scouting department actually being good and doing their jobs properly, which ours hasn't been of late. And why we would suddenly abandon such a set up (because clearly, we did) to sign Carrillo for £19m is beyond comprehension. Edited 13 November, 2018 by mrfahaji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Do you not even consider the possibility the squad may be the issue? Do you mean the squad he keeps picking the wrong team from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBizzier69 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Sorry, I don't buy the fact that it's the weakness of our squad that's the issue. Are people seriously saying the individuals we have warrant us being in the position we're in? In terms of quality of players we have, we are easily a mid-table side. Simply, they're not being coached/trained hard enough or being played to their strengths - or clearly motivated enough to give a monkeys. I'm not talking attitude, i'm talking being technically good enough to not be in the position we are. Give them some proper coaching, set them up properly, and instill some passion and desire into the side and we'd fare much better. I'm not saying top 6, but certainly not bottom 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Sorry, I don't buy the fact that it's the weakness of our squad that's the issue. Are people seriously saying the individuals we have warrant us being in the position we're in? In terms of quality of players we have, we are easily a mid-table side. Simply, they're not being coached/trained hard enough or being played to their strengths - or clearly motivated enough to give a monkeys. I'm not talking attitude, i'm talking being technically good enough to not be in the position we are. Give them some proper coaching, set them up properly, and instill some passion and desire into the side and we'd fare much better. I'm not saying top 6, but certainly not bottom 6. Spot on!! Has to be lack of proper training, we just can't see out last ten mins in any match! Start slowly as well almost looking to get into game at our own pace, by that time, we are out of game against better sides. Something not clicking seriously, fitness and attitude should not be an issue, but it patently is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Spot on!! Has to be lack of proper training, we just can't see out last ten mins in any match! Start slowly as well almost looking to get into game at our own pace, by that time, we are out of game against better sides. Something not clicking seriously, fitness and attitude should not be an issue, but it patently is! without doubt the fitness is a huge problem not just this season under Hughes but also under Pellegrino who's the fitness coach now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 without doubt the fitness is a huge problem not just this season under Hughes but also under Pellegrino who's the fitness coach now? Whoever he is, he should be fired! Proper fitness should be first requisite. Think we have people stinking behind the scenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 (edited) Interesting article from the BBC, no managers sacked at this stage of the season - not the norm: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46146946 If we are going to do it, now is the time. Edited 13 November, 2018 by Micky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Just gonna leave this here... https://www.football365.com/news/f365s-early-loser-mark-hughes-on-the-brink-of-history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Whoever he is, he should be fired! Proper fitness should be first requisite. Think we have people stinking behind the scenes just checked its Alex Gross who's rather overweight not a good sign for a fitness coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 just checked its Alex Gross who's rather overweight not a good sign for a fitness coach Unfortunate name too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Sorry, I don't buy the fact that it's the weakness of our squad that's the issue. Are people seriously saying the individuals we have warrant us being in the position we're in? In terms of quality of players we have, we are easily a mid-table side. Simply, they're not being coached/trained hard enough or being played to their strengths - or clearly motivated enough to give a monkeys. I'm not talking attitude, i'm talking being technically good enough to not be in the position we are. Give them some proper coaching, set them up properly, and instill some passion and desire into the side and we'd fare much better. I'm not saying top 6, but certainly not bottom 6. I think the fact that we play quite well for periods of the game fairly regularly supports this. If our players were terrible, we'd struggle to look decent for more than a brief spell of fervent pressure. First half against Watford (who have been pretty good this season) we were encouraging and fairly enjoyable to watch. That says to me that this squad is capable of doing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 without doubt the fitness is a huge problem not just this season under Hughes but also under Pellegrino who's the fitness coach now? We don’t have a fitness coach, we haven’t since Koeman left with Jan Kluitenberg. It’s all sports science ****** ran by someone who has no idea of professional football, but has a degree. It’s a joke really. We’ve been way too unfit for 2/3 seasons now, since the fitness coach left funny enough. Looking at some of the players they just look overweight (might be them tight fitting shirts).. The Les Reed Legacy ladies and Gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 We don’t have a fitness coach, we haven’t since Koeman left with Jan Kluitenberg. It’s all sports science ****** ran by someone who has no idea of professional football, but has a degree. It’s a joke really. We’ve been way too unfit for 2/3 seasons now, since the fitness coach left funny enough. Looking at some of the players they just look overweight (might be them tight fitting shirts).. The Les Reed Legacy ladies and Gents. wow completely forgot about Jan, he was a good bloke. him and Erwin left with their heads held high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 We don’t have a fitness coach, we haven’t since Koeman left with Jan Kluitenberg. It’s all sports science ****** ran by someone who has no idea of professional football, but has a degree. It’s a joke really. We’ve been way too unfit for 2/3 seasons now, since the fitness coach left funny enough. Looking at some of the players they just look overweight (might be them tight fitting shirts).. The Les Reed Legacy ladies and Gents. While we should have a fitness coach. I'm the only one thinking that highly paid professional sportsmen really should be looking after themselves. Its not like they are working 40 hour weeks cant they get themselves down the gym or go for a run without someone making them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 We don’t have a fitness coach, we haven’t since Koeman left with Jan Kluitenberg. It’s all sports science ****** ran by someone who has no idea of professional football, but has a degree. It’s a joke really. We’ve been way too unfit for 2/3 seasons now, since the fitness coach left funny enough. Looking at some of the players they just look overweight (might be them tight fitting shirts).. The Les Reed Legacy ladies and Gents. From the club’s posts about their sport science conference, isn’t someone called Mo Gimpel the man at the top of the performance science pile? Surely player fitness will be top of his priorities. Poch and Koeman had their own fitness experts who understood the game, maybe the current set up is just not delivering and the same broom that swept Les and Martin Hunter away will be chasing some of these others to the bin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Codger Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Can’t we hire some ex Royal Marine PT instructor to get them fit. Someone not dissimilar to that b*****d in Full Metal Jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Sports Science is more about nutrition and avoiding injuries, actually getting them match fit and able to play at a high intensity is down to the coaches themselves. The losing leads thing is very clearly fitness related because once the body fatigues keeping concentration is much harder. And you only have to look at the declining sharpness of Ings to see whatever we are doing, it is a long way behind what Liverpool are doing, when he arrived he stand out as probably our fittest and most energetic player. Also that Hughes article is damning, I also do not buy that we have a squad that is 17th worthy in the PL, as that article points out we are level with Cardiff, their squad is nowhere near the level of talent we have but they at least have a manager who has a game plan and makes sure his teams work hard and are hard to beat. Said it before and I'll say it again, pockets of good play seem to break out with our team almost despite Hughes, like our players revert back to muscle memory of when they were playing in better teams and better systems. There is zero identity or style to our play, most clubs in the league you can identify their standard shape, their press levels, their passing preferences etc. I have no clue what ours is apart from a mess. Whatever our failings in recruitment and at board level, the last two managers have consistently failed to get this squad even performing averagely, let alone punching above it's weight. Pellegrino was too restrictive and too negative, he set us up like we were the Alaves of the PL, like every game we were big underdogs, but we were not, we should have been better than that and certainly more positive at home against teams our level or below. Hughes is just showing he is a PL dinosaur, his best results are years behind him and those stats show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Said it before and I'll say it again, pockets of good play seem to break out with our team almost despite Hughes, like our players revert back to muscle memory of when they were playing in better teams and better systems. There is zero identity or style to our play, most clubs in the league you can identify their standard shape, their press levels, their passing preferences etc. I have no clue what ours is apart from a mess. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 I don't see the point in sticking with Hughes any longer it's clear he's not the right fit for us & we will inevitably realise that when it's too late again & then a last minute panic sacking & appointment will take place yet again! We should take the break to appoint the right candidate Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 I don't see the point in sticking with Hughes any longer it's clear he's not the right fit for us & we will inevitably realise that when it's too late again & then a last minute panic sacking & appointment will take place yet again! We should take the break to appoint the right candidate Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk Who is the right candidate? We won't know until he's had a dozen or so games.. Then, if he turns out to be the wrong candidate, we'll be looking for another right candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 We don’t have a fitness coach, we haven’t since Koeman left with Jan Kluitenberg. It’s all sports science ****** ran by someone who has no idea of professional football, but has a degree. It’s a joke really. We’ve been way too unfit for 2/3 seasons now, since the fitness coach left funny enough. Looking at some of the players they just look overweight (might be them tight fitting shirts).. The Les Reed Legacy ladies and Gents. Alex Gross did work at Leeds Rhinos, so it's not like he has no background in professional sports. But yes, I do agree with you that we should have a dedicated fitness coach, and leave Alex Gross to the sports science side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Do you not even consider the possibility the squad may be the issue? A weaker version of this squad finished 8th and were unlucky to lose a cup final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 That's the job of the man being paid lots to pick a manager isn't it. Hughes is appalling and needs to go. But who is that? Surely not Ralph as it requires someone with a broad knowledge of world football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Who is the right candidate? We won't know until he's had a dozen or so games.. Then, if he turns out to be the wrong candidate, we'll be looking for another right candidate. Jardim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 A weaker version of this squad finished 8th and were unlucky to lose a cup final. The most glaring deficiency of the last two seasons has been a lack of goals despite creating plenty of chances. Luck does play a part but we have lacked an instinctive scorer since Mane and Pelle moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 The most glaring deficiency of the last two seasons has been a lack of goals despite creating plenty of chances. Luck does play a part but we have lacked an instinctive scorer since Mane and Pelle moved on. It's a bit of toss up between that and our totally inability to defend these days. Back under Koeman teams had to work really hard just to get a shot off, with our midfield shielding the defence, and when they did our defence was often more than a match for opposition attackers. Now our midfield offers all the protection of a wet paper towel while our defenders would struggle to keep out Warsash Wasps under 12s strike force. Thank god we now have McCarthy in goal and not that motionless lump that is Forster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 While we should have a fitness coach. I'm the only one thinking that highly paid professional sportsmen really should be looking after themselves. Its not like they are working 40 hour weeks cant they get themselves down the gym or go for a run without someone making them do it. Is it really fitness that's the problem near the end of the games though ? Or is it a fragile mentality and playing deeper inviting the opponent onto us more whilst we just try told hold out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 Would love to take Arteta. Would be perfect and IMO good for him. Arsenal was too big for a first job anyway. 2/3 years here would be ideal, and we'd actually get someone young with some ideas on playing decent football. Not a chance Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangelyBrown Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 JardimThis Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 It’s not a lack of physical fitness for me, it’s mental fitness. The game swings when our fragile confidence breaks (as soon as we get a setback) and then the legs go. Am I the only one to think this? I don’t think they’re at their fittest but they’re not unfit IMO - just easily breakable, confidence wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 They’re just not very good at football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 13 November, 2018 Share Posted 13 November, 2018 It’s not a lack of physical fitness for me, it’s mental fitness. The game swings when our fragile confidence breaks (as soon as we get a setback) and then the legs go. Am I the only one to think this? I don’t think they’re at their fittest but they’re not unfit IMO - just easily breakable, confidence wise. It was also a feature the last time they were relegated from the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 14 November, 2018 Share Posted 14 November, 2018 Well it won’t be Ranieri if Hughes goes. Just been installed at Fulham. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 14 November, 2018 Share Posted 14 November, 2018 Is it really fitness that's the problem near the end of the games though ? Or is it a fragile mentality and playing deeper inviting the opponent onto us more whilst we just try told hold out? Fitness is a big part of that though, if you are knackered you can't keep a press up or track back so you will naturally sit deeper and deeper, plus your concentration goes and you make silly mistakes. Confidence is also an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 14 November, 2018 Share Posted 14 November, 2018 Decisive action from Fulham - perhaps we should now sack Hughes and hire Jokanovic. That's a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 14 November, 2018 Share Posted 14 November, 2018 Get Jokanovic now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 14 November, 2018 Share Posted 14 November, 2018 Should we be getting managers just sacked by other PL clubs? Not really worked with Hughes and not particularly worked with Puel at Leicester. Are we just presuming this is a blip for Jokanovic? Arguably we have better defenders and that seems to have been his main issue, but are their worries about his defensive management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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