Sell JWP in January?

[Dusic]

IMO JWP has gone backwards again so far this seaaon, and is probably as far away from being a regular starter as he ever has been.

 

To me he looks like a player who needs a fresh challenge at a different club.

 

1. He has no actual position that he is selectable in, which is his main problem IMO.

 

2. He is one of the worst subs I can remember at Saints. You wouldnt bring him on when chasing a game and he is poor at protecting a lead.

 

3. His corners and wide free kicks are decent enough but not worth a place in the team alone.

 

4. He has the same weaknesses now as he did when he was 17: no pace, zero physical presence, always looks sideways before forward.

 

5. He is a player we could get decent money for and not miss at all.

 

If another PL side would give us £15m then I would consider taking it, because he literally adds nothing at the moment, doesn't fit a 4-4-2 or 5-3-2 and its hard to ever seeing him kicking on, as so many have suggested he will.

[Mosin]

IMO JWP has gone backwards again so far this seaaon, and is probably as far away from being a regular starter as he ever has been.

 

To me he looks like a player who needs a fresh challenge at a different club.

 

1. He has no actual position that he is selectable in, which is his main problem IMO.

 

2. He is one of the worst subs I can remember at Saints. You wouldnt bring him on when chasing a game and he is poor at protecting a lead.

 

3. His corners and wide free kicks are decent enough but not worth a place in the team alone.

 

4. He has the same weaknesses now as he did when he was 17: no pace, zero physical presence, always looks sideways before forward.

 

5. He is a player we could get decent money for and not miss at all.

 

If another PL side would give us £15m then I would consider taking it, because he literally adds nothing at the moment, doesn't fit a 4-4-2 or 5-3-2 and its hard to ever seeing him kicking on, as so many have suggested he will.

 

I think we should just so he can shut you all up and prove you all wrong, less than 100 mins played, but despite Redmond playing 440 mins MORE he still has more key passes than Redmond.

[eurosaint]

Given that it is the 20th Sept and the window doesn’t open until 1st Jan next year, I would suggest that we have time to reflect on this and see how he performs on the odd occasion that he gets a game !

[Micky]

So you've listed all the things he's allegedly crap at and then you say we should get decent money for him. Right.

 

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[Dusic]

So you've listed all the things he's allegedly crap at and then you say we should get decent money for him. Right.

 

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Well, yeah because he is English, has loads of PL apps and seemingly Watford and Burnley wanted him in the summer, and may well still want him.

 

We buy crap for decent cash so no reason for others not to.

[Saint86]

I think we should just so he can shut you all up and prove you all wrong, less than 100 mins played, but despite Redmond playing 440 mins MORE he still has more key passes than Redmond.

 

If true, that makes a good joke of this thread.

[Appy]

I think we should just so he can shut you all up and prove you all wrong, less than 100 mins played, but despite Redmond playing 440 mins MORE he still has more key passes than Redmond.

 

Stats are nonsense, anyone can see Redmond has been one of our best players this season.

[benjii]

"Key pass" just means a pass that is followed by a shot. Great cross that striker misjudges and doesn't reach = not a key pass. Ten yard sideways ball in midfield followed by a hopelessly optimistic 30 yarder = key pass.

 

If you've been watching our matches you've got to be a special kind of clueless to think JWP has been good and Redmond has not. You've also got to be a bit dense to think it's a meaningful statistic based on a sample of four or five matches.

[Avenue_Saint]

Who is going to bid for him?

[SaintAndy14]

Set-piece ability aside, I do agree that he offers very little. Hasn't progressed as we thought/hoped when bursting onto the scene at 17/18. I suppose quite similar to Redmond in that respect, although he is currently showing more than JWP.

[simo]

Second most assists last season dispute playing less minutes than most others !

[Mosin]

"Key pass" just means a pass that is followed by a shot. Great cross that striker misjudges and doesn't reach = not a key pass. Ten yard sideways ball in midfield followed by a hopelessly optimistic 30 yarder = key pass.

 

If you've been watching our matches you've got to be a special kind of clueless to think JWP has been good and Redmond has not. You've also got to be a bit dense to think it's a meaningful statistic based on a sample of four or five matches.

 

Stats are nonsense, anyone can see Redmond has been one of our best players this season.

 

are you seriously suggesting Redmond is a better crosser than JWP? LOL

 

 

A key pass is a pass that should have ended up in the back of the net weather it be from a pass, through ball, long ball, cross, free kick, corner and also the person who sets up an attack to start with eg putting both Ings and Redmond through on goal from a delightful through ball, ings receives it 15 yards from goal and laying it off to Redmond who misses the target from 6 yards out

 

Also, over the first 5 games, HOJ, Ings and Vest are the best players so far this season, Redmond is no where near the best player this season, you mad?...….

[Mosin]

Second most assists last season dispute playing less minutes than most others !

 

Exactly not only did he play less mins, he played HALF the mins of Redmond and out assisted him and out scored him.

 

So far this season Redmond has been better, but only cause he has had FAR more mins than JWP, but can we honestly say JWP has been given a far amount of game time? I mean he was are best attacking player first game of the season and gets dropped when Redmond was the only player to not make a single chance in that game ( against Burnley of all teams )

 

 

Seriously Redmond is far better at running JWP far better at every thing else

[Mosin]

we are making the same mistake as last year in trying to make some thing out of Redmond, He played pretty much every single game last season and still did less for the team than a player who hardly played at all.

 

 

Don't get me wrong as I said, Redmond looks good and can run at ppl, but every thing else about his game is poor and that is why we was the only team to try buy him and why Norwich didn't put up any fight to keep him.

[beatlesaint]

So how many is that now Hughes has joined the list of managers who don’t pick JWP every match ?

 

Atkins, Poch, Koeman, Puel, Clown and Hughes - six altho you could argue Puel stuck with him the longest.

 

Differing levels of manager there but they all seem to agree on this player.

[woodsaint]

are you seriously suggesting Redmond is a better crosser than JWP? LOL

 

 

A key pass is a pass that should have ended up in the back of the net weather it be from a pass, through ball, long ball, cross, free kick, corner and also the person who sets up an attack to start with eg putting both Ings and Redmond through on goal from a delightful through ball, ings receives it 15 yards from goal and laying it off to Redmond who misses the target from 6 yards out

 

Also, over the first 5 games, HOJ, Ings and Vest are the best players so far this season, Redmond is no where near the best player this season, you mad?...….

 

I wouldnt say hes mad. I would include Redmond with those players you've mentioned. Started the season very well but hopefully he can keep that going and be more consistent than the last few years

[Mosin]

So how many is that now Hughes has joined the list of managers who don’t pick JWP every match ?

 

Atkins, Poch, Koeman, Puel, Clown and Hughes - six altho you could argue Puel stuck with him the longest.

 

Differing levels of manager there but they all seem to agree on this player.

 

Poch, Adkins, Koeman all played JWP quite a lot considering the competition with far far greater players and was far far younger too, unless you think Redmond is on level with Mane and co? LOL Redmond would never have seen a min when they was in charge and you know it.

 

And the last few managers have been hugely successful obviously, they are all still employed by us right? but one who I don't think will make end of season on current form unless you think are results have been brilliant? I mean are best display of attacking intent was against burnley, no coicicdance that JWP played that game and Redmond did nothing in that game yeah?

 

Sorry meant Everton, not Burnley

Edited 20 September, 2018 by Mosin

[Mosin]

I wouldnt say hes mad. I would include Redmond with those players you've mentioned. Started the season very well but hopefully he can keep that going and be more consistent than the last few years

 

1 assist and 0 goals in 6 apps is good?

 

 

Hoj 2 goals 1 assist,

 

Lemina 1 assist

 

 

Bertrand 2 assist 1 goal.

 

 

Ings 3 goals

 

 

Austin 1 goal.

 

 

What does Redmond have over all these players?

 

 

MORE MINS and he is the best player. ok ok ok, I believe you all at last...…………...

[kermitsaint]

I think we should just so he can shut you all up and prove you all wrong, less than 100 mins played, but despite Redmond playing 440 mins MORE he still has more key passes than Redmond.

Saying he is better than Redmond is like choosing which is your favourite sexually transmitted disease. Neither are any good.

 

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[Mosin]

Saying he is better than Redmond is like choosing which is your favourite sexually transmitted disease. Neither are any good.

 

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agreed, I have never argued that ever, I agree would could find better wide players than both.

 

Least JWP creates chances though as that is the role of a wide attacking player is it not? or does that position just mean u just run at ppl and completely mess every thig else up? but its ok as its the role of a wide attacking player. you tell me, every great wide player has been either a prolific goal scorer or a great creator of goals, never seen any wide man picked just cause they can run past people, its a bonus, but the other two must come first.

[tajjuk]

JWP has done very little aside that stupid push, but then he hasn't been on the pitch much.

 

To say Redmond has been our best player is frankly retarded, the guy does not contribute, that is a simple fact. He is an attacking player that does not score goals or get assists. Nor does he even particularly create space for others, offer above average work rate, make very good runs or link the play that well. Something that for example Sterling did in his England role, despite the lack of goals and assists.

 

So what is he exactly offering the team right now?

 

JWP, for all his failings to establish himself in the team and find a proper position, does at least contribute some goals and assists, he actually did that on a more consistent basis last year than Tadic.

 

To be honest JWP probably does need to move on, he needs to go somewhere where he nails down a place in the team and finds some consistency.

 

Not really sure how you can claim he has gone backwards, based on a few sub appearances of limited game time.

[Danbert]

Saying he is better than Redmond is like choosing which is your favourite sexually transmitted disease. Neither are any good.

 

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This - it's deckchairs on the Titanic, they're both poor

[benjii]

Let's leave those who don't understand the artistry of football to have their funny little statistics.

[Mosin]

Let's leave those who don't understand the artistry of football to have their funny little statistics.

 

its not just statistics though is it, you can see it on the pitch, do you think honestly think we will score when Redmond makes a run any where near the box? i don't, i have more hope of a goal when Bertrand or Cedric push up than i do when Redmond is around the goal. in fact i know i am more likely to see Bertrand make a goal than any other player on the first team and he is a dam LEFT BACK.

 

 

JWP was are 2nd best player last season attacking wise, yet out of all of are attacking players, he played less than half the mins of them all, he has less prem mins than Redmond too and yet has 9 more assist and only 2 less goals than Redmond does and yet Redmond is meant to be one of the main attacking players who has had tons of exp also in the championship, if any thing, Redmond should be much much further ahead of JWP in development cause of his thousands more mins played than JWP in competitive football but he isn't. he is only ahead cause he now and then goes past ppl but don't provide any goals or assists for the many many many mins he gets on the pitch.

 

 

MLT was a slow arse sod, but you gave him the ball, you can place a bet on him putting some one through on goal or scoring him self, weather it is from a free kick corner or open play, you knew he had the ability, Redmond has a bit of pace and can dribble but he does not have the ability to do any thing else, JWP lacks the pace, but has the ability to find his team mates in space / the box so they can score instead or get himself a shot on target at least.

 

 

but most importantly, i would rather neither played in a wide position but Redmond cant play any where else and but JWP can.

[Cabbage_Face]

Yes

[tajjuk]

Let's leave those who don't understand the artistry of football to have their funny little statistics.

 

Statistics > 'feels' all day every day, especially the 'feels' of football fans who are in the main completely clueless.

[Dusic]

FAO Mosin - Please stop hijacking the thread talking about a different player, who has no relevance to this discussion.

 

There is Redmond thread thats easy to find.

 

Re the actual topic, what are your thoughts on the 5 points in the OP?

[Sheaf Saint]

Let's leave those who don't understand the artistry of football to have their funny little statistics.

 

Those 'funny little statistics' show that Redmond is nothing but a show pony.

 

It all counts for nothing if there is no end product and his 'artistry' does not translate to goals and results.

[Cabbage_Face]

Lets face it, he get a better deal cos he is "one of our own". Could be a one legged midget and people would prefer him over someone with more talent, but because his KM run % is slightly higher on the t**t stats index they deem him a better player.

 

#mess

#takeoffthosesammysaintcaks

[Mosin]

FAO Mosin - Please stop hijacking the thread talking about a different player, who has no relevance to this discussion.

 

There is Redmond thread thats easy to find.

 

Re the actual topic, what are your thoughts on the 5 points in the OP?

 

I am comparing him to some one else who i feel offers far less and should maybe make way before one of are own youth players who has never been given proper consistent game time to really show what he can do.

 

 

In which in all my posts you can clearly see i feel that he offers more than just running / dribbling whoops sorry free kicks corners as he has done more in 98 mins of game time this season than Redmond has managed in 6 full apps...…. even last season JWP was far better for the team than Redmond and yet had less than half Redmonds mins but JWP is the one who should leave while Redmond gets a free ride?

 

 

Not my fault ppl get salty cause they can see clearly that Redmond has offered us nothing so far this season but running and dribbling and offered nothing at all through the full seasons last year and has been out performed by a player who has at most been bit part player with less than 4 k mins to his name since Redmond joined. yet you want the bit part player to leave and the 12 k + mins Redmond to stay, baffling. yet the one with least mins has played better..

 

 

WTH Fans logic, he looks pretty on the ball must be a better player. 10 goals 19 assists JWP 4.6 k mins total 3 seasons -- Redmond 9 assists 15 goals in just under 13 k mins over 3 seasons.

 

this season 98 mins played over 2 games 5 clear goal scoring opportunities created JWP - Redmond 2 goals scoring opportunities created 6 games 540 mins played...…

 

 

I hope he leaves, i really do, he is being wasted at this club, and i know if he does leave he will contribute more to his new club than Redmond will for us.

[derry]

JWP certainly had an assist this season, shame it was a push in the back on Duffy to give Murray the penalty against Brighton. IMO provided a realistic offer for him is forthcoming we should allow him to leave. that would be better for him to get regular football, however I can't see him holding down a starting place in the Premier, and us.

 

To put things in perspective, as he takes the corners and free kicks when on the pitch, of course he is going to improve his statistics but what does he provide from play, mostly not a lot.

[austsaint]

JWP certainly had an assist this season, shame it was a push in the back on Duffy to give Murray the penalty against Brighton. IMO provided a realistic offer for him is forthcoming we should allow him to leave. that would be better for him to get regular football, however I can't see him holding down a starting place in the Premier, and us.

 

To put things in perspective, as he takes the corners and free kicks when on the pitch, of course he is going to improve his statistics but what does he provide from play, mostly not a lot.

 

Your assessment is correct for anyone who has seen the majority of his 200 plus appearances. I really believe it it would be a good move for Ward-Prowse and a very good move for SFC if he was to play at another Club. However, I can't see another Prem. Club wanting him. The Club is stuck with several mediocre players who other Clubs aren't interested in and JWP is one of them.

[saintadjg]

Never got the dislike of Prowsey.

[Mosin]

Your assessment is correct for anyone who has seen the majority of his 200 plus appearances. I really believe it it would be a good move for Ward-Prowse and a very good move for SFC if he was to play at another Club. However, I can't see another Prem. Club wanting him. The Club is stuck with several mediocre players who other Clubs aren't interested in and JWP is one of them.

 

He had an offer to leave at the start of the season but the club turned it down. No one even enquired about Redmond, Christ no one even wanted him for a knocked down price when Norwich got relegated. not even championship clubs even thought about it, Norwich didn't even try to get a bigger price, we offered they said yes ASAP, its not like they needed the money either.

[shurlock]

He had an offer to leave at the start of the season but the club turned it down. No one even enquired about Redmond, Christ no one even wanted him for a knocked down price when Norwich got relegated. not even championship clubs even thought about it, Norwich didn't even try to get a bigger price, we offered they said yes ASAP, its not like they needed the money either.

 

Which offer was that? A £10m bid from Watford

[Cabbage_Face]

Why we comparing JWP to Redmond, like comparing Yoshida to Austin. Don't play in same position. #mess

[benjii]

Why we comparing JWP to Redmond, like comparing Yoshida to Austin. Don't play in same position. #mess

 

You can compare any two players. You just need to know how many "key passes" they've made.

[Mosin]

Why we comparing JWP to Redmond, like comparing Yoshida to Austin. Don't play in same position. #mess

 

since when was the left midfield apart from the side of the field ever considered a different position to right midfield? i mean both are wide both have defensive duty's and attacking duty's

 

Or is Redmonds position wide left of a flat midfield of 4 different to the other side? is it a special position just for Redmond? that no other flat 4 midfield use?

 

 

 

 

 

GK

RB CB CB LB

 

RM CM CM (Reserved position special for Redmond secret name ask random mong for info as its not a normal LM role.)

 

CF CF

[Mosin]

You can compare any two players. You just need to know how many "key passes" they've made.

 

i knowi am so so so sorry i forgot, only thing offensive players are rated for is tackling and marking...…. like goals and assist mean nothing to a forward thinking offensive player looking to help his team win games. omg, its the job of the goalkeep to create goals and score goals my bad .

 

 

Why Messi and Ronald try beat each other on assists and goals to prove the are the best attacking players on the planet baffles me, they should do more defensive work and not bother trying to assist goals and score goals . Really....

[Mosin]

errrhhmmm yeah i went to the game weekend, and one of the offensive players, made no attempts at goal at all, not even got a single cross right, but its ok, cause he could run like usian bolt get to the by line and then do nothing haha, man he is so good, on the ether side of the pitch we had this player who had a nice range of passing ability, put 5 attempts on a plate for his team mates that they fluffed, haha he was so **** that his teams mates all failed to score. its was all his fault, just cause he not run like usian bolt.

 

 

You know what?

 

lets stick with the dude that can run and dribble, he is surely going to help the team with the lack of end product he seems to be suffering from and the bad defensive work on show.

 

 

I mean if we had just got one of those many clear cut chances from a range of 4 yards from goal ( Austin ) to 16 yards from the goal, we would have won against Everton man, he even managed to provide a perfect cross from a corner that one of the CM flicked on for the dude Ings that got a tap in for his first Saints goal.

 

but Redmond man, he was awesome, i watched him run down the by line, get into a great position with loads of time on his hands, he looks up, sees 4 Saints players in the box, he cuts back runs away from the by line and loses possession and they go down the other end and score on the counter as the Poor LB ran 70 yards to offer support but got ignored and couldn't chase back Richarlison to stop him scoring. Man this guy here the LM dude, he was phenomenal. but that right midfielder who put 5 chances on a plate, and whos key pass set up Ings his first Saints goal, he was rubbish man, i mean seriously like WTF is he doing creating goal scoring opportunities man, he is so bad man. like really bad.

 

dam that JWP dude is crap man.

[Lighthouse]

Id sell JWP as I've no idea what he offers other than fairly good set piece delivery. Otherwise he is largely just a passenger who doesn't fit into any of the formations we've tried and I've no idea what his position is supposed to be.

 

I'm not a fan of Redmond but he does at least offer an outlet and the odd goal. If our squad was half decent he wouldn't be starting.

[beatlesaint]

errrhhmmm yeah i went to the game weekend, and one of the offensive players, made no attempts at goal at all, not even got a single cross right, but its ok, cause he could run like usian bolt get to the by line and then do nothing haha, man he is so good, on the ether side of the pitch we had this player who had a nice range of passing ability, put 5 attempts on a plate for his team mates that they fluffed, haha he was so **** that his teams mates all failed to score. its was all his fault, just cause he not run like usian bolt.

 

 

You know what?

 

lets stick with the dude that can run and dribble, he is surely going to help the team with the lack of end product he seems to be suffering from and the bad defensive work on show.

 

 

I mean if we had just got one of those many clear cut chances from a range of 4 yards from goal ( Austin ) to 16 yards from the goal, we would have won against Everton man, he even managed to provide a perfect cross from a corner that one of the CM flicked on for the dude Ings that got a tap in for his first Saints goal.

 

but Redmond man, he was awesome, i watched him run down the by line, get into a great position with loads of time on his hands, he looks up, sees 4 Saints players in the box, he cuts back runs away from the by line and loses possession and they go down the other end and score on the counter as the Poor LB ran 70 yards to offer support but got ignored and couldn't chase back Richarlison to stop him scoring. Man this guy here the LM dude, he was phenomenal. but that right midfielder who put 5 chances on a plate, and whos key pass set up Ings his first Saints goal, he was rubbish man, i mean seriously like WTF is he doing creating goal scoring opportunities man, he is so bad man. like really bad.

 

dam that JWP dude is crap man.

 

calm down James

 

please explain why you continue to harp in about Redmond - he does not play in the same position as JWP - please try to understand that......and FYI i’d sell both of them

Edited 21 September, 2018 by beatlesaint

[Hodgey]

Redmond is a more exciting player to watch - but surely nobody can argue that he contributes more assists or goals than JWP - he doesn’t. I agree he is playing better this year, but no end product - he totally disappeared when the going got tough on Monday. There is an argument to sell both - then again we’d buy a Boufal (worse), Ramirez (worse) or Moi (jury out) if we sold either given our totally incompetent scouting team so what’s the point ?. Personally I think we are a better team when JWP plays right mid - Hughes disagrees but then again Moi and Redmond have contributed the sum total of zero so far. Hopefully they end up firing but I have my reservations

[beatlesaint]

Redmond is a more exciting player to watch - but surely nobody can argue that he contributes more assists or goals than JWP - he doesn’t. I agree he is playing better this year, but no end product - he totally disappeared when the going got tough on Monday. There is an argument to sell both - then again we’d buy a Boufal (worse), Ramirez (worse) or Moi (jury out) if we sold either given our totally incompetent scouting team so what’s the point ?. Personally I think we are a better team when JWP plays right mid - Hughes disagrees but then again Moi and Redmond have contributed the sum total of zero so far. Hopefully they end up firing but I have my reservations

 

i think with Redmond where he was so bloody useless last season any improvement is greeted with the hope he is finally showing what he’s capable of but yes I agree he went missing Monday.

[SNSUN]

I like JWP, if he were any better than he is, he’d be first choice for us, and if he were any better than that he’d be at a bigger club. He’s a squad player, plain and simple, and if he’s currently happy playing that role, we shouldn’t knock it. I agree at times he looks powder puff, but he’s got a decent pass on him and a decent set piece, although he did show naivety on Monday.

 

For me, we’re too close to the relegation trap door to be shifting out our half decent squad players - IF we were to go down, they’re the ones that we will need after the jewels are shipped out. Still a bit early in the season to be talking about shipping players out in January, nearly a third of a year.

[Dusic]

Sell. Committing that kind of foul in stoppage time is inexcusable. Given loads of players the benefit of the doubt over the past few seasons, but the truth is, some just aren’t good enough.

I just think his confidence is shot.

 

Heard the other day on a podcast with the Notts County Physio that apparently in the PL players run the same distance in 90mins as about 5 years ago but the number of high intensity movements, sprints etc are far higher than even 5 years ago.

 

When I heard that I actually thought of JWP, as his PL debut was roughly that amount of time ago, and yet even since then the game has got quicker.

 

I'm just not sure he is physically a PL player, likewise someone like Austin, who just looks shattered and unfit after about 20mins.

[harriesss]

See Mosin’s ‘Greatest player of all time’ is now being selected behind a left back playing out of position.

 

 

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[benjii]

See Mosin’s ‘Greatest player of all time’ is now being selected behind a left back playing out of position.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What? I think JWP is a waste of time but that's not true is it? Targett will probably play left wing back.

[larry12]

Yes deffo

[Red]

Yes deffo

 

No point selling for the sake of it. Unless we have a plan to sell and replace with better than better to have him as an option. Our record of recruiting better (and I mean better than our squad not super stars) has been very poor of late. We would get what around £15M at best for JWP? That is surely enough to punt on an up and coming Championship player - no??