The Mark Hughes Effect...

[Badger]

And 34 of those goals against came between the 87+ time which to me suggests they are not physically fit to last 90 minutes.

 

Where did you get that stat from ?

[StrangelyBrown]

We need a bit of consistency on the footballing side of things

 

We have consistency; we are consistently underperforming, consistently dropping points we shouldn't, consistently playing a championship level striker who runs about a bit, consistently playing 2 centre halves who have no pace whatsoever, consistently playing a right back who has struggled for form over the last year, ....

 

I'm sure we'll consistently play 442 under Hughes and consistently get over run in midfield when we lose momentum and hughes will consistently do the wrong thing to address the issues.

 

How is that consistency working out for us?

 

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[doddisalegend]

Stoke finished consistently in the top half under Hughes, it was only the last season or two where things went tits up.

 

And even then, had Stoke not sacked him they would have stayed up, they only won what twice was it after he left? Same amount we won in the couple of months he was here at the end of the season.

 

We need a bit of consistency on the footballing side of things, meanwhile our anger should be directed at the board.

 

 

How about the players take some blame? Diving when already on a yellow, giving away a ****ing penalty when leading with minutes to go, constant lapses in concentration, lack of composure in front of goal and god knows how many missed penalties over the last three seasons . Those things aren't down to the manager or board ( not that both of them haven't got plenty of things wrong to, far from it). One theme running through the last couple of seasons is the constant ability of our players to shot themselves in the foot game after ****ing game to drop points.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I also think the girls we have actually scored seem to be on the lucky side, stunners from Hoj and Bertrand that you can't count on, a breakaway last minute goal by Hoj, a penalty etc. We don't seem to be scoring many where we've just broken a team down and been creative.

You've got to give Ings some credit for the driving run which won the penalty

[Saints foreva]

We are seeing it now. We are becoming the new Stoke: a dispirited team with a shambolic defence.

Mark Hughes' record in his last 50 Premier League games as manager at Stoke and Southampton:

 

P50 W11 D13 L26 F49 A86 Pts 46

 

That is an awful record.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You've got to give Ings some credit for the driving run which won the penalty

 

Absolutely, he looks great BTW.

[Useful Idiot]

I dislike the way we surrender the midfield in every game, especially against teams with less quality in that department.

 

I dislike the way our defence is so open.

 

I dislike that we are not creating many high-quality chances. Lots of half-chances but few good ones.

 

I dislike the fact we drop too deep when defending a lead.

[Nordic Saint]

That is an awful record.

 

Stoke's decline under Hughes over the last 3 years mirrors our own decline in the same period:

 

2015/16 Saints 63 pts Stoke 51 pts

 

2016/17 Saints 46 pts Stoke 44 pts

 

2017/18 Saints 36 pts Stoke 33 pts

 

I you want a decline, he's your man. His predecessors, Hodgson at Fulham, Warnock at QPR and Pulis at Stoke were all more successful than Hughes was after he took over from them.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Stoke's decline under Hughes over the last 3 years mirrors our own decline in the same period:

 

2015/16 Saints 63 pts Stoke 51 pts

 

2016/17 Saints 46 pts Stoke 44 pts

 

2017/18 Saints 36 pts Stoke 33 pts

 

I you want a decline, he's your man. His predecessors, Hodgson at Fulham, Warnock at QPR and Pulis at Stoke were all more successful than Hughes was after he took over from them.

 

I'm not sure how many more stats or reasons we can produce to say why he is the wrong man for the job.

 

Either people are going to listen, or they'll continue in their myopic way.

[Saint Pete]

How about the players take some blame? Diving when already on a yellow, giving away a ****ing penalty when leading with minutes to go, constant lapses in concentration, lack of composure in front of goal and god knows how many missed penalties over the last three seasons . Those things aren't down to the manager or board ( not that both of them haven't got plenty of things wrong to, far from it). One theme running through the last couple of seasons is the constant ability of our players to shot themselves in the foot game after ****ing game to drop points.

 

Absolutely. But it's far easier to just blame everything on the manager, right? The players need to stand up and take responsibility themselves, not constantly look to the sidelines. But I won't hold my breath on that one. Easier for them to hide behind the manager and let him take any flak.

 

The Brighton game was a classic case. To my mind, Hughes set the team up well and we were totally dominant in the first half. But when Brighton committed more bodies forward and challenged us earlier on the ball, the players once again were found wanting in terms of composure and bottle. I don't see it as a tactical issue personally. There should have been opportunities to play it through Brighton's more intensive pressing, but the players didn't have the bottle to keep playing and resorted to kicking it long and aimlessly so that Brighton could just keep building the pressure. And then the usual defensive frailty. Obviously the coaching team need to help the players address these issues but the players need to take more responsibility, it can't all come from the sidelines.

 

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[Saint Pete]

Stoke's decline under Hughes over the last 3 years mirrors our own decline in the same period:

 

2015/16 Saints 63 pts Stoke 51 pts

 

2016/17 Saints 46 pts Stoke 44 pts

 

2017/18 Saints 36 pts Stoke 33 pts

 

I you want a decline, he's your man. His predecessors, Hodgson at Fulham, Warnock at QPR and Pulis at Stoke were all more successful than Hughes was after he took over from them.

 

I don't get your point here - are you now blaming Hughes for our decline since 2015/16?

 

And I can't be bothered to check back on what happened at Fulham and QPR, but Hughes definitely had higher finishes at Stoke than Pulis ever did in the 3 consecutive years when they finished 9th! But don't let the facts get in the way.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I don't get your point here - are you now blaming Hughes for our decline since 2015/16?

 

And I can't be bothered to check back on what happened at Fulham and QPR, but Hughes definitely had higher finishes at Stoke than Pulis ever did in the 3 consecutive years when they finished 9th! But don't let the facts get in the way.

 

I think it shows a lack of effectiveness over the years - that seemed to coincide with the change to a 4-3-3 formation - perhaps tactically he can do a 4-4-2. but nowt else?

[Saint Pete]

I'm not sure how many more stats or reasons we can produce to say why he is the wrong man for the job.

 

Either people are going to listen, or they'll continue in their myopic way.

 

So, it's not relevant that Hughes actually achieved much better league placings than Pulis in nearly all of his seasons at Stoke, contrary to what was said above as if it was fact?

[tajjuk]

There is an easier way to put this, move it back a year to when Puel was sacked and Hughes was Stoke manager, how many people would have been happy for us chasing him then and thought he was a good candidate?

 

When we were about to go down he was available and we were desperate for a change.

 

But as a man to return some progress?

 

Club needs re-booting from top to bottom IMO, lots of consistently average players need going, the board needs re-jigging, people in charge of recruitment needs to go and IMO we need a manager who is likely to take us forward and improve the players/team, I am not seeing that in Hughes.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So, it's not relevant that Hughes actually achieved much better league placings than Pulis in nearly all of his seasons at Stoke, contrary to what was said above as if it was fact?

 

No I don't think it is, because it was years ago. It doesn't mean he's still a good manager. Look at what happened to Wenger. Football changes, and some Managers get left behind.

 

Personally if I was judging a Managers effectiveness in the league, I would take the last 3 years record above the 3 years before that.

[The9]

Second half Brighton improved, which is why we struggled.

 

I disagree, second half we didn't come out with the same effort and purpose, which is why Brighton (who never stopped running even when we were all over them) got on top.

[The9]

I think it shows a lack of effectiveness over the years - that seemed to coincide with the change to a 4-3-3 formation - perhaps tactically he can do a 4-4-2. but nowt else?

 

Hughes' preferred formation has always been variations of 5 at the back.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I disagree, second half we didn't come out with the same effort and purpose, which is why Brighton (who never stopped running even when we were all over them) got on top.

 

Hughes half time teamtalk must have been good then.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Hughes' preferred formation has always been variations of 5 at the back.

 

Well, judging by our pre-season and a half against Burnley he's ****ing rubbish at that.

[St Marco]

 

And even then, had Stoke not sacked him they would have stayed up, they only won what twice was it after he left? .

 

He left them third to bottom. Had 1 win in 8 games before being sacked. Had a GD of -24. That is horrific.

No chance he would have kept them up that season. Was sinking like a stone. Even our chump didn't lose as many games as Stoke did at that point.

[Badger]

I'm not sure how many more stats or reasons we can produce to say why he is the wrong man for the job.

 

Either people are going to listen, or they'll continue in their myopic way.

 

Jeff, you've made your case, but out of interest who is realistically available that you would want ?

 

I've never been sold on MH, but fall into the 'after last season...'/we won't attract anyone better/don't trust Reed and Wilson to appoint better ' type of camp (for the moment). Change of direction or owner more of a necessity, but unlikely.

 

So is it a choice of Allardyce or Moyes ?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Jeff, you've made your case, but out of interest who is realistically available that you would want ?

 

I've never been sold on MH, but fall into the 'after last season...'/we won't attract anyone better/don't trust Reed and Wilson to appoint better ' type of camp (for the moment). Change of direction or owner more of a necessity, but unlikely.

 

So is it a choice of Allardyce or Moyes ?

 

Brendan Rogers off the top of my head. Not happy in Scotland. Offer him £5m per year to come down here.

 

TBH, I don't think we'd be any worse if we didn't have a manager full stop.

[St Lej]

Brendan Rogers off the top of my head. Not happy in Scotland. Offer him £5m per year to come down here.

 

TBH, I don't think we'd be any worse if we didn't have a manager full stop.

 

Were you this vociferous about Pellegrino’s failings when it became clear he was we clueless? I’m assuming you were because if not, it’s frankly bizarre and obsessive that you’ve got the daggers out for Hughes so soon, who is no world beater but clearly a better manager than Pellegrino, to anyone with half a brain. Seems to me that your dislike of Hughes is slightly tinged with some kind of personal issue you’ve got with him.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Were you this vociferous about Pellegrino’s failings when it became clear he was we clueless? I’m assuming you were because if not, it’s frankly bizarre and obsessive that you’ve got the daggers out for Hughes so soon, who is no world beater but clearly a better manager than Pellegrino, to anyone with half a brain. Seems to me that your dislike of Hughes is slightly tinged with some kind of personal issue you’ve got with him.

 

I don't have a personal issue with him, but then I also have always said I don't rate him, from the second we were linked with him. That doesn't mean I have to have something personal against him. We have a large body of work to judge him from, and from what I know of him as a manager he doesn't fit with the club in relation to what we need to do to be successful.

 

I wanted Pellegrino out after the Leicester game - so approximately the same number of games that I have given Hughes. I wasn't as vociferous as Pellegrino had started the season better than Hughes (which is why I'm confused as to why you think Hughes is clearly a better manager).

Edited 20 September, 2018 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Nordic Saint]

Jeff, you've made your case, but out of interest who is realistically available that you would want ?

 

I've never been sold on MH, but fall into the 'after last season...'/we won't attract anyone better/don't trust Reed and Wilson to appoint better ' type of camp (for the moment). Change of direction or owner more of a necessity, but unlikely.

So is it a choice of Allardyce or Moyes ?

 

That is the sort of lazy thinking that brought us Hughes. You could add Pardew to that tired old list as well. They are all managers who've run out of ideas, whose careers have been in decline for some time. What we need is a manager whose career is in the ascendant, like Darren Moore (win percentage of 56.3% in his current job at West Brom), Eddie Howe (win percentage of 43.7% in his current spell at Bournemouth) or Paul Cook (win percentage of 58.8% at Wigan). There are also many more successful managers to choose from outside of this country.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That is the sort of lazy thinking that brought us Hughes. You could add Pardew to that tired old list as well. They are all managers who've run out of ideas, whose careers have been in decline for some time. What we need is a manager whose career is in the ascendant, like Darren Moore (win percentage of 56.3% in his current job at West Brom), Eddie Howe (win percentage of 43.7% in his current spell at Bournemouth) or Paul Cook (win percentage of 58.8% at Wigan). There are also many more successful managers to choose from outside of this country.

 

No, it's Hughes or one of the dinosaurs. Not sure why you think a team in the Premier League could attract any manager apart from the ones he mentioned above.

[tajjuk]

Loads of up and coming managers from around Europe would take lower level PL jobs, just look at Silva, he had been winning the league Greece and getting unfancied teams into the top 4 of Portugal but still took the Hull job.

[aintforever]

Loads of up and coming managers from around Europe would take lower level PL jobs, just look at Silva, he had been winning the league Greece and getting unfancied teams into the top 4 of Portugal but still took the Hull job.

 

Problem is can we trust Reed and Co to hire someone decent? There were plenty of good managers around when we hired a guy who's greatest achievement was once finishing 10th in La Liga.

 

No one on here thinks Hughes is the best manager in the World but it made sense to give him a go after keeping us up when we looked doomed. With the squad we have any manager will struggle IMO.

[doddisalegend]

Loads of up and coming managers from around Europe would take lower level PL jobs, just look at Silva, he had been winning the league Greece and getting unfancied teams into the top 4 of Portugal but still took the Hull job.

 

 

That's how we ended up with Puel MoPe though. It's great if you uncover another Poch but as least season shows it can also go horrible tits up. It's no wonder a lot of PL clubs are happy to go with ageing and uninspiring safe hands like big Sam etc because in the end staying on the PL gravy train is all that matters to PL clubs.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That's how we ended up with Puel MoPe though. It's great if you uncover another Poch but as least season shows it can also go horrible tits up. It's no wonder a lot of PL clubs are happy to go with ageing and uninspiring safe hands like big Sam etc because in the end staying on the PL gravy train is all that matters to PL clubs.

 

Name all the teams in the Premier League that have an ageing/uninspiring Manager like Big Sam.

[Give it to Ron]

Name all the teams in the Premier League that have an ageing/uninspiring Manager like Big Sam.

Cardiff

 

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[Dellman]

Mark Hughes may not excite fans and I have never liked him as player or in his managerial career but several players are playing better under him than before--Redmond, Hoj, Bertrand, lemina and that gives me hope for the team---but we need Yoshi, what has he got against him?

[Pamplemousse]

Cardiff

 

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Inspired them to promotion, all on a shoestring budget.

 

They haven't really improved their squad though this season, shoe-ins for relegation.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Cardiff

 

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He's one of the most inspiring Managers out there - you can tell that by the number of promotions he's had.

[tajjuk]

Problem is can we trust Reed and Co to hire someone decent? There were plenty of good managers around when we hired a guy who's greatest achievement was once finishing 10th in La Liga.

 

No one on here thinks Hughes is the best manager in the World but it made sense to give him a go after keeping us up when we looked doomed. With the squad we have any manager will struggle IMO.

 

That's how we ended up with Puel MoPe though. It's great if you uncover another Poch but as least season shows it can also go horrible tits up. It's no wonder a lot of PL clubs are happy to go with ageing and uninspiring safe hands like big Sam etc because in the end staying on the PL gravy train is all that matters to PL clubs.

 

 

Do not disagree with either of you but I would still prefer to take that gamble.

 

There are also plenty of up and coming British managers that I'd prefer to gamble on.

 

I just do not feel Hughes will take us anywhere, as a temporary measure he is fine but long term he does not have a good track record and some of his best performances as a manager were basically 10 years ago and football has moved on.

 

It's also worrying how defensively open we are, how little leadership seems to come from the sidelines and how poor he seems to be at closing out games, say what you will of the likes of Pulis and Allardyce but their teams generally have been hard to beat, very well organised and hard working.

[Dark Munster]

Inspired them to promotion, all on a shoestring budget.

 

They haven't really improved their squad though this season, shoe-ins for relegation.

That's what I thought about Huddersfield last season.

[doddisalegend]

Name all the teams in the Premier League that have an ageing/uninspiring Manager like Big Sam.

 

 

This season - Saints, West ham and Palace

 

Last season Everton, Palace, West brom (twice) Stoke (twice), West Ham

[shurlock]

This season - Saints, West ham and Palace

 

Last season Everton, Palace, West brom (twice) Stoke (twice), West Ham

 

Also worth adding that outside the top 6, most clubs that have changed managers have gone for someone with prem experience.

[Give it to Ron]

He's one of the most inspiring Managers out there - you can tell that by the number of promotions he's had.

 

From the Championship not Premiership - Hughes record is above his in Prem.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

This season - Saints, West ham and Palace

 

Last season Everton, Palace, West brom (twice) Stoke (twice), West Ham

 

West Ham have Pellegrini, are you joking? Hodgson has been a very highly respected Manager for a long time.

 

If you class those two with Pardew, Hughes, Allardyce and Moyes then that says more about you're judgement that mine.

 

The biggest point is, they didn't start a season with those Manager's. We have. More fool us.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

From the Championship not Premiership - Hughes record is above his in Prem.

 

So? That wasn't the question.

 

But fine, out of 20 teams it's only us and Cardiff who have that kind of manager. Good company to be keeping.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Name all the teams in the Premier League that have an ageing/uninspiring Manager like Big Sam.

 

What age do you become uninspiring?

 

Pellegrini??

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What age do you become uninspiring?

 

Pellegrini??

 

Yes, Pellegrini - have a read of you don't know who he is:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Pellegrini#Honours

 

I think the point is there are a group of British Managers that have been round the block over and over again, of which Hughes is one, along with Moyes, Allardyce, Pardew, 'Arry etc - the PFM club. These are the type of Managers we should really stick away from unless we want to be relegation fodder.

Edited 20 September, 2018 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Give it to Ron]

Do you honestly believe Rodgers would leave his comfy role at Celtic to come to us?

Hughes isn't the answer long term and I blame him for the draw as much as the players as his subs were atrocious

and treatment of Yoshida is poor .

Do you trust Les, Wilson and Kruegar to appoint a new manager....no chance they cant even get a right back replacement!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Do you honestly believe Rodgers would leave his comfy role at Celtic to come to us?

Hughes isn't the answer long term and I blame him for the draw as much as the players as his subs were atrocious

and treatment of Yoshida is poor .

Do you trust Les, Wilson and Kruegar to appoint a new manager....no chance they cant even get a right back replacement!

 

Yeah, if we pay him enough. Why not?

 

I don't trust them, no, but don't think we could do any worse. MP started better than Hughes has this term.

[doddisalegend]

Loads of up and coming managers from around Europe would take lower level PL jobs, just look at Silva, he had been winning the league Greece and getting unfancied teams into the top 4 of Portugal but still took the Hull job.

 

That's how we ended up with Puel MoPe though. It's great if you uncover another Poch but as least season shows it can also go horrible tits up. It's no wonder a lot of PL clubs are happy to go with ageing and uninspiring safe hands like big Sam etc because in the end staying on the PL gravy train is all that matters to PL clubs.

 

West Ham have Pellegrini, are you joking? Hodgson has been a very highly respected Manager for a long time.

 

If you class those two with Pardew, Hughes, Allardyce and Moyes then that says more about you're judgement that mine.

 

The biggest point is, they didn't start a season with those Manager's. We have. More fool us.

 

 

So you think Pellegrini and Hodgson are up and coming young managers that tajjuk was suggesting?....like **** they are they are ageing, uninspiring safe hands just like I said.

[Badger]

That is the sort of lazy thinking that brought us Hughes. You could add Pardew to that tired old list as well. They are all managers who've run out of ideas, whose careers have been in decline for some time. What we need is a manager whose career is in the ascendant, like Darren Moore (win percentage of 56.3% in his current job at West Brom), Eddie Howe (win percentage of 43.7% in his current spell at Bournemouth) or Paul Cook (win percentage of 58.8% at Wigan). There are also many more successful managers to choose from outside of this country.

 

Sadly that is the pool we are most likely to recruit from. I'm not advocating Moyes or Allardyce by any stretch but don't see 'inspired choices' being Saints way after the last two seasons or so.

 

Problem is can we trust Reed and Co to hire someone decent? There were plenty of good managers around when we hired a guy who's greatest achievement was once finishing 10th in La Liga.

 

No one on here thinks Hughes is the best manager in the World but it made sense to give him a go after keeping us up when we looked doomed. With the squad we have any manager will struggle IMO.

 

Therein lies the problem.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So you think Pellegrini and Hodgson are up and coming young managers that tajjuk was suggesting?....like **** they are they are ageing, uninspiring safe hands just like I said.

 

Where did I say they were up and coming, I wasn't naming up and coming? However they're far better and more inspiring than Hughes.

[Charlie Wayman]

Steve Bruce is the man for us, he's wasting his time at Villa.

[Greedyfly]

I disagree, second half we didn't come out with the same effort and purpose, which is why Brighton (who never stopped running even when we were all over them) got on top.

 

Gotta disagree. Brighton simply stepped up 10 yards to stop us playing out from the back. Both teams were lethargic but we wanted it a bit more in the first half, them the second. Without Ing's pen we lose that game.