The Mark Hughes Effect...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Isn't mong short for Mongrel?

 

No.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mong

[trousers]

I'm just wondering why people are so quick to defend Hughes, and to want to give him time, when he has all but wasted 5 winnable games.

 

Do we recognise that the team is no better and get rid now, or wait until we've played a number of hard games and get rid around Christmas. Crystal Palace were very clever last season in recognising that they were going to struggle with De Boer and sacked him early.

 

We equally as soft (or even more so) at the back than with Pellegrino, maybe a bit better attacking wise but certainly not pulling up any trees.

 

Personally, I am just willing to recognise this earlier as I have never rated him, call it confirmation bias or whatever you like, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong.

 

If we all hail how astute you are, would that stop you telling us how astute you are on a regular basis, or would you keep telling us anyway? Asking for a friend

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The thing is are you confident that the guys who appointed him, as well as sacking their two appointments prior to him, would get the next appointment spot on?

 

I'm personally not sold on Hughes. He was the best we could get in the situation we found ourselves in after Pellegrino but part of me now thinks we should have thanked him and moved on in the summer.

 

His game management seems **** poor and throw into it the players fragile mentality, it's not a surprise we throw away so many points from winning positions under him.

 

I'm not, but I think we'll go down anyway. We'd be better off with Puel I would think, so it's just the last 2 appointments that have been stupidly bad.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Other poor teams kept us up last season rather than anything particular Hughes did.

This season is just showing how mediocre he is.

 

I wish he was mediocre - I could live with that.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

If we all hail how astute you are, would that stop you telling us how astute you are on a regular basis, or would you keep telling us anyway? Asking for a friend

 

Absolutely would not stop until he is sacked, and for a bit of time after that when we bring in someone who then does a better job.

[Cabbage_Face]

No.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mong

 

WTF

[S-Clarke]

At what stage do people start looking at the players here? This is the third manager who has struggled with this bottlejob group. For me the main blame for our current position lies with our recruitment and how they've managed to build such a poor team. We can keep changing managers over and over, but as long as the same morons are still making dumb calls when then going gets tough on the pitch then we're in the same position.

[Cabbage_Face]

If we still had a Fonte, Toby or VVD type CB we wouldn't be having these convos.

[OldNick]

I'm just wondering why people are so quick to defend Hughes, and to want to give him time, when he has all but wasted 5 winnable games.

 

Do we recognise that the team is no better and get rid now, or wait until we've played a number of hard games and get rid around Christmas. Crystal Palace were very clever last season in recognising that they were going to struggle with De Boer and sacked him early.

 

We equally as soft (or even more so) at the back than with Pellegrino, maybe a bit better attacking wise but certainly not pulling up any trees.

 

Personally, I am just willing to recognise this earlier as I have never rated him, call it confirmation bias or whatever you like, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong.

Hughes has inherited a poor squad. The fans get edgy when we are close to getting a result and this transmits to the players. When we were on our rise back up we were more relaxed,it is just in the last season or so that we have gone back to the bad old days

[S-Clarke]

Hughes has inherited a poor squad. The fans get edgy when we are close to getting a result and this transmits to the players. When we were on our rise back up we were more relaxed,it is just in the last season or so that we have gone back to the bad old days

 

So it's the fans fault?

[Pamplemousse]

At what stage do people start looking at the players here? This is the third manager who has struggled with this bottlejob group. For me the main blame for our current position lies with our recruitment and how they've managed to build such a poor team. We can keep changing managers over and over, but as long as the same morons are still making dumb calls when then going gets tough on the pitch then we're in the same position.

 

Nail on the head.

 

Although some people on here still seem to think we have a squad capable of competing with the very best in this league.

[nta786]

Didn't really ever rate him, but thought considering he kept us up that he deserved a chance to take us forward.

 

So far I think he is blowing that chance, results are really no better than last year, 3 home games against 3 poor teams and we aren't wining them.

 

Let's hope the leadership learnt their lesson from last year and don't wait ages before they pull the trigger and they can unearth a gem this time.

 

Would prefer we gambled on an up and coming manager, don't care if where he comes from.

 

so like Pellegrino?

 

Our recruitment has been woeful I have no confidence we will find anyone else competent.

I wish we did keep Koeman on for his third and final year- wonder how that would have panned out

Edited 18 September, 2018 by nta786

[Sheaf Saint]

Nail on the head.

 

Although some people on here still seem to think we have a squad capable of competing with the very best in this league.

 

Who does? I haven't seen a single poster make such a claim.

 

If there is one thing about which this forum is in near total agreement it is that there are glaring weaknesses in our squad, and that not even the most talented manager could get them competing with the top six.

[Saint Pete]

At what stage do people start looking at the players here? This is the third manager who has struggled with this bottlejob group. For me the main blame for our current position lies with our recruitment and how they've managed to build such a poor team. We can keep changing managers over and over, but as long as the same morons are still making dumb calls when then going gets tough on the pitch then we're in the same position.

 

I absolutely agree. It is not only a lack of quality of players in terms of skill where we are suffering but also a lack of character. We have lost all of our leaders from the team and replaced them with players who seem to back away when we are challenged in games. Some of the players, particularly the likes of Bertrand and Lemina need to do a lot better in terms of leading the team through difficult spells in games.

 

 

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[Roo1976]

3 wins in 14 says it all

 

But be honest with yourself have we been better than just 3 out of 14 or just about right...?

 

Right now and no knee jerk reaction wheres the next win coming from?.......surley not the following 3 or 4 fixtures and then were really starting to look like the team of the last 2 seasons.

[tajjuk]

Hughes has inherited a poor squad. The fans get edgy when we are close to getting a result and this transmits to the players. When we were on our rise back up we were more relaxed,it is just in the last season or so that we have gone back to the bad old days

 

A poor squad that got 5 more players into it that presumably he had involvement in and so far at least 3 of those look promising and an improvement on last year, with the jury being out on the other two.

 

It's also not like he was particularly good at Stoke for the last two years either and we are exhibiting similar problems to them, i.e defensive issues, set piece issues and 'favourites' like Long being played almost inexplicably.

 

so like Pellegrino?

 

Our recruitment has been woeful I have no confidence we will find anyone else competent.

I wish we did keep Koeman on for his third and final year- wonder how that would have panned out

 

I'd still rather take the risk.

 

Puel wasn't even that bad IMO. I'd be more confident with Puel as manager that we'd have seen out that game yesterday, he strikes he as more tactically aware manager who drills his players better.

 

Still would have taken Silva as well.

 

Gerrard has only been a manager for months and he IMO is showing more tactical nous and ability to get his teams playing a good shape than Hughes.

 

We spent all summer playing a 3-5-2 that never worked and we now seem to have moved to a wishy washy 4-4-2 and can't seem to string even two decent 45 minutes together.

 

Personally if we are not near or in the top half by Xmas he should go and the board should be looking at potential replacements now, who can then come in January and they can be backed to get some players in.

[Saint Garrett]

We are better than we have been for the last few seasons, and we there are some really promising signs, but there are also some worrying ones too.

I didn't like Puel but he got the team winning some games.

Pellegrino was just dreadful all over.

Hughes has us playing some decent(ish) football, but we are lacking leaders, and struggling from a few years of not winning games.

 

I don't mind Hughes, he's not amazing by any means, but I certainly don't think he's awful.

 

We are better than last year, but unfortunately so is the league. It seems to be another season where we're be happy to just stay up, which is really not good enough for our football club.

[Cabbage_Face]

Hughes is ok, is getting more out the side than MoPe and Puel, who it seemed were more interested in not losing than going for a win. Trouble is our recruitment, utter mess.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

At what stage do people start looking at the players here? This is the third manager who has struggled with this bottlejob group. For me the main blame for our current position lies with our recruitment and how they've managed to build such a poor team. We can keep changing managers over and over, but as long as the same morons are still making dumb calls when then going gets tough on the pitch then we're in the same position.

 

Well, I said this when talking about the difference between Hughes and Pellegrino - everyone said that it was due to MP being ****. Now Hughes is struggling it seems people are prepared to look at that possibility - but MP is still **** apparently.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

WTF

 

What do you mean WTF? You asked what that word meant, I'm showing you. Just put the word into Google.

[saint77]

Good point, well articulated.

 

Also, dickhead is all one word. HTH.

 

P*ick then

[Unbelievable Jeff]

P*ick then

 

I love you keyboard warriors acting all hard on a faceless football forum...:lol:

[Baj]

I love you keyboard warriors acting all hard on a faceless football forum...:lol:

Well, he can have a couple of days to chill the **** out. That's how long he/she is banned for. Too old, too busy, and don't care enough to debate with people who can't act like grown ups.

[The9]

Has it worn off, or are we just following what happened when he first came in last season?

 

I don't think he's actually had any positive effect - even in keeping us up we were still poor. It just seems that this season is an extension of that.

 

We were better in the first half yesterday than we were at any point of last season, so that's a positive.

 

I should point out that we've reverted back to basically the Les Formation (with a minor tweak in where Ings plays) from his preferred formation though, which pretty much answers all of my questions about who's running the set up and will the manager be allowed to do things his way.

[Batman]

We were better in the first half yesterday than we were at any point of last season, so that's a positive.

 

I should point out that we've reverted back to basically the Les Formation (with a minor tweak in where Ings plays) from his preferred formation though, which pretty much answers all of my questions about who's running the set up and will the manager be allowed to do things his way.

really?

[The9]

I'm just wondering why people are so quick to defend Hughes, and to want to give him time, when he has all but wasted 5 winnable games.

 

Do we recognise that the team is no better and get rid now, or wait until we've played a number of hard games and get rid around Christmas. Crystal Palace were very clever last season in recognising that they were going to struggle with De Boer and sacked him early.

 

We equally as soft (or even more so) at the back than with Pellegrino, maybe a bit better attacking wise but certainly not pulling up any trees.

 

Personally, I am just willing to recognise this earlier as I have never rated him, call it confirmation bias or whatever you like, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong.

 

Crystal Palace were hardly "clever" in realising a manager that lost every match and without scoring a goal was probably not going to do well for them. Hughes' record is a bit more nuanced.

 

I feel I should also point out that we're 13th, and would be 10th if not for a dodgy injury time penalty. Which is significantly better than when he took over last season.

[The9]

really?

 

Yup. Brighton had one touch within our box in the entire half. We were completely dominant in a half when Brighton were flat out as well and they got nothing.

 

By the time we scored the second, however, the game was a lot more even, arguably our penalty was against the run of play. All about players being able to maintain their levels of motivation and effort, and this lot keep showing they just can't do it over 90 minutes.

[Batman]

Yup. Brighton had one touch within our box in the entire half. We were completely dominant in a half when Brighton were flat out as well and they got nothing.

 

By the time we scored the second, however, the game was a lot more even, arguably our penalty was against the run of play. All about players being able to maintain their levels of motivation and effort, and this lot keep showing they just can't do it over 90 minutes.

 

I thought we were better at home to Arsenal and Spurs for example. Clearly, you do not

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Well, he can have a couple of days to chill the **** out. That's how long he/she is banned for. Too old, too busy, and don't care enough to debate with people who can't act like grown ups.

 

Good job

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Yup. Brighton had one touch within our box in the entire half. We were completely dominant in a half when Brighton were flat out as well and they got nothing.

 

By the time we scored the second, however, the game was a lot more even, arguably our penalty was against the run of play. All about players being able to maintain their levels of motivation and effort, and this lot keep showing they just can't do it over 90 minutes.

 

Brighton were utterly awful first half. Now, it's whether you think that was because we played well and stopped them playing, or they played poorly.

 

TV pundits thought it was the second BTW.

[The9]

I thought we were better at home to Arsenal and Spurs for example. Clearly, you do not

 

Nope. Neither of those sides were going for it like Brighton were trying to yesterday first half and we gave them nothing.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Nope. Neither of those sides were going for it like Brighton were trying to yesterday first half and we gave them nothing.

 

Brighton did nothing in the first half - absolutely nothing. We must have watched a completely different game.

[Batman]

Nope. Neither of those sides were going for it like Brighton were trying to yesterday first half and we gave them nothing.

 

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Second half Brighton improved, which is why we struggled.

[Batman]

Brighton did nothing in the first half - absolutely nothing. We must have watched a completely different game.

 

they stood off us in the first 45, allowed us to have the ball at the back and bring it to the halfway line. They didnt press at all. They were very defensive and looked to slow the game down every chance they got.

 

I dont think their keeper had a meaningful save to make other than the worldy we scored. But then, we were 'brilliant' apparently

[Tamesaint]

they stood off us in the first 45, allowed us to have the ball at the back and bring it to the halfway line. They didnt press at all. They were very defensive and looked to slow the game down every chance they got.

 

I dont think their keeper had a meaningful save to make other than the worldy we scored. But then, we were 'brilliant' apparently

 

So you missed the save he made in the last minute??

 

You were probably too busy composing your knee-jerk comments.

[Batman]

So you missed the save he made in the last minute??

 

You were probably too busy composing your knee-jerk comments.

 

I was down in the concourse by that point, getting my £4.50 bottle of pish

one whole save for our 'brilliant' performance.

 

amazing

[RedWillie]

I absolutely agree. It is not only a lack of quality of players in terms of skill where we are suffering but also a lack of character. We have lost all of our leaders from the team and replaced them with players who seem to back away when we are challenged in games. Some of the players, particularly the likes of Bertrand and Lemina need to do a lot better in terms of leading the team through difficult spells in games.

 

 

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Couple this with a silent owner who won't or can't communicate to the fans, a bumbelling chairman and we'll, I'm not sure who or what Les Reed does anymore our club is really struggling at the moment.

 

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[Micky]

Well, he can have a couple of days to chill the **** out. That's how long he/she is banned for. Too old, too busy, and don't care enough to debate with people who can't act like grown ups.

Book him Danno, murder one.

 

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[shurlock]

Nope. Neither of those sides were going for it like Brighton were trying to yesterday first half and we gave them nothing.

 

Are you serious?

[ally_uk]

Been saying it for two seasons this squad is average... We have no players with grit, leadership, passion or balls. We continue to field average players such as Redmond, Long, Ward Prowse, Austin. When have they actually been consistent? produced goals or assists on a regular basis? dress it up oh say something stupid like oh Prowse is good at free kicks...... Yes but in an average season what are these players bringing to the table?

 

Other teams have moved forwards we have stuck still, We needed to clear out the dross and inject some much needed pace and creativity in the setup.

 

I Seriously wouldn't be shock if we go down this season, The writing has been on the wall for ages our squad is not up to par. Fans who think we are capable of finishing in the top half need a reality check because most of these players couldn't finish there dinner....

[stknowle]

Nope. Neither of those sides were going for it like Brighton were trying to yesterday first half and we gave them nothing.

 

Hmmmm can’t say I was particularly struck by how much Brighton were going for it in that first half. 2nd half yes. Anyway we were better against Everton last season than at any point so far this, albeit aided by the fact they were a complete mess of a club at the time. The outstanding highlight of Pellegrino’s 1 star time in charge.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Regardless of how Brighton played in the first half, I thought we played faster and with more urgency than we did under the last two managers. Finding a cutting edge in attack remains a problem and the pressure got to the players in the second half, they still seem low on confidence which is worrying.

 

I'm not at all convinced that two up front is the way to go

[Saint Albert]

I also think the girls we have actually scored seem to be on the lucky side, stunners from Hoj and Bertrand that you can't count on, a breakaway last minute goal by Hoj, a penalty etc. We don't seem to be scoring many where we've just broken a team down and been creative.

 

Autocorrect was not your friend here, Jeff.

[Ultimatt]

2015/16 team vs now. Which positions do people think we're not weaker in?

 

Forster --> McCarthy (Improved)

Cedric

VVD --> Vestergaard (worse)

Fonte --> Hoedt (worse)

Bertrand

Wanyama --> Romeu/Hojbjerg (worse)

Davis --> Lemina (close. Lemina with more flair which has also cost us goals. Davis was consistent)

Tadic --> Elyonoussi (worse so far but too early to judge properly)

JWP --> Long (close)

Mane --> Redmond (worse but he's playing better this season)

Pelle --> Ings (worse but Pelle was great and Ings also showing promise)

 

Koeman would've been just as ineffective with the new batch

[Nordic Saint]

We are seeing it now. We are becoming the new Stoke: a dispirited team with a shambolic defence.

Mark Hughes' record in his last 50 Premier League games as manager at Stoke and Southampton:

 

P50 W11 D13 L26 F49 A86 Pts 46

[jarhead5]

I think Hojbjerg is/will be better than Wanyama....apart from the dive.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

We are seeing it now. We are becoming the new Stoke: a dispirited team with a shambolic defence.

Mark Hughes' record in his last 50 Premier League games as manager at Stoke and Southampton:

 

P50 W11 D13 L26 F49 A86 Pts 46

 

Exactly this.

[Pilchards]

We are seeing it now. We are becoming the new Stoke: a dispirited team with a shambolic defence.

Mark Hughes' record in his last 50 Premier League games as manager at Stoke and Southampton:

 

P50 W11 D13 L26 F49 A86 Pts 46

 

And 34 of those goals against came between the 87+ time which to me suggests they are not physically fit to last 90 minutes.

[Pamplemousse]

Stoke finished consistently in the top half under Hughes, it was only the last season or two where things went tits up.

 

And even then, had Stoke not sacked him they would have stayed up, they only won what twice was it after he left? Same amount we won in the couple of months he was here at the end of the season.

 

We need a bit of consistency on the footballing side of things, meanwhile our anger should be directed at the board.