The Mark Hughes Effect...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Has it worn off, or are we just following what happened when he first came in last season?

 

I don't think he's actually had any positive effect - even in keeping us up we were still poor. It just seems that this season is an extension of that.

[Heisenberg]

3 wins in 14 says it all

[shurlock]

A point a game. Fill your boots.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

3 wins in 14 says it all

 

And of those wins, 1 was against a Palace team that haven't got a point in the last 2 years when playing without Zaha, and an utterly appalling Swansea team.

 

But hey, what do I know - I certainly didn't predict it when he was appointed...

[Pamplemousse]

We're scoring more goals, we're definitely a better attacking force.

 

Defensively, the same issues remain from Pellegrino's disastrous period, and I believe the players are mentally weak. Things like that take time to sort out.

 

We won't go down, we'll finish lower mid half of the table probably, but it's progress... of some sort.

[shurlock]

And of those wins, 1 was against a Palace team that haven't got a point in the last 2 years when playing without Zaha, and an utterly appalling Swansea team.

 

But hey, what do I know - I certainly didn't predict it when he was appointed...

 

He kept us up unless you’re trying to claim otherwise. That makes your prediction irrelevant. As long as we stay up and hopefully consolidate, that’s infinitely better than where we would have been without Hughes.

Edited 17 September, 2018 by shurlock

[Sheaf Saint]

He didn't get his subs right tonight, and he left it far too late to react to Brighton's upsurge after HT. But overall I think he has had a positive effect. He has definitely got us playing better attacking football than the last two managers.

 

The problem seems to be the mentality of the players. Yes you can argue that is the manager's responsibility, but the ones who have been here since the Puel days all seem to have the same hangover and just panic whenever we have a lead to protect. I doubt there are many managers (certainly not ones that we could afford to hire anyway) who could reverse that very easily.

[Saint Pete]

We are better than we were last season. But there's still a long way to go to rebuild from the disaster that was Pellegrino. Our home form is really concerning and today shows we still have the same demons in terms of lack of composure and a soft centre when the opposition up their game. That's what Hughes needs to find a solution to, but he needs some help from the senior players on the pitch.

 

Nothing to be gained from continually blaming Hughes for everything though. I believe we are better off sticking with him and giving him a sensible period of time to continue the improvement we have seen since he took over.

 

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[danjosaint]

Wish he'd f**k off, along with the other f****** muppets

[Badger]

Wish he'd f**k off, along with the other f****** muppets

 

That would be the owners, Reed, Wilson and most of the first team squad as well then.

[Turkish]

To be blunt the bar was very low to improve on Pellegrino. Hughes is an upgrade which is more than can be said for most of our business since 2016 but that’s not saying much.

 

Our ambition now is to stay in the premiership whilst returning a profit from transfers and given his previous Hughes is probably

The man for the job. Tonight was quite

Entertaining despite the inevitably of Brightons soft goal five minutes after our second then their late equaliser, it played out exactly as the tv cameras would want it.

 

Shanghai leisure Holdings have nailed it.

Not quite ****e enough to go down and entertaining enough to make dull games for

The TV audience worth watching. This season will prove to be a triumph for the business that we are now, China will applaud our plucky, small club status of battling to beat the odds. Fans over here will celebrate clinging onto our premier league status and we will go again next summer, Spending just enough to survive, returning a profit to the board and some corporate marketing “we march on” bull**** propaganda to make all our fans think we really do want to do well but it’s just so so tough these days.

[Ultimatt]

Maybe, just maybe, it's been the players at fault the last 3 seasons instead of the managers... We have no players left that are measurably better than anyone the other 14 also ran's have. Every games a coin flip between these 14 sides.

[aintforever]

We look better than we did under Pellegrino, I just don’t think the players are very good.

[Heisenberg]

And of those wins, 1 was against a Palace team that haven't got a point in the last 2 years when playing without Zaha, and an utterly appalling Swansea team.

 

But hey, what do I know - I certainly didn't predict it when he was appointed...

 

I don't blame Hughes. He joined us during a HUGE decline and steadied us enough for survival.

 

Fully turning this decline around could genuinely take years. Squad, spirit, confidence, expectation and that winning mentality takes time to build and with our current owner and off field management team we are pretty f*cked.

 

Things aren't great under Hughes but would I swap him for Puel or Pellegrino.... NO CHANCE.

 

Would I trust the Muppets that run this club to find someone better than Hughes.... NO CHANCE

[Saint Pete]

Never seen an effect. We were still mostly abysmal staying up. We won twice. Scraped one v Bournemouth thanks to a great performance from McCarthy, then beat a dire Swansea side. That's it. Still some utterly abject performances in there.

 

Tried to be optimistic but it died in pre season. Not due to signings. Whatever people say, this squad is plenty good enough to come around 10th. Not because it's a terrific squad, just because you don't need that many points or that much talent to come 10th.

 

Hughes has tried plenty of systems and players but i'm yet to see us play well in 2 halves under him. The results are appalling. Make no mistake, we had a very, very kind opening set of fixtures, and we've won once. A game we'd have lost if Zaha had been available.

 

I've no idea why anyone expects it to change. We know what sort of manager Hughes is. He wouldn't have turned it round at Stoke, he didn't turn much round here last season and fck all has changed this season.

 

I think you are over estimating the quality of our squad to be honest. We have a lot of bang average players now, and unfortunately many of them go missing when a bit of bottle is required. You mention Zaha and the impact he would have had if he had played - a perfect example of the kind of quality that we don't have any more.

 

Hughes is far from my favourite manager but I honestly don't think we would be better off getting rid of him and chancing our arm on who else the club in its current state can attract.

 

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[Batman]

Not a fan of Hughes what so ever

Terrible manager

 

But what is the point? Fuking clowns that run the club in the name of the bizarre owner we have.

 

We will go down this season and deservedly so

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

We will go down this season and deservedly so

 

 

 

 

 

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[shurlock]

I think you are over estimating the quality of our squad to be honest. We have a lot of bang average players now, and unfortunately many of them go missing when a bit of bottle is required. You mention Zaha and the impact he would have had if he had played - a perfect example of the kind of quality that we don't have any more.

 

Hughes is far from my favourite manager but I honestly don't think we would be better off getting rid of him and chancing our arm on who else the club in its current state can attract.

 

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Adrian overestimate the quality of the squad? Nah never....

[Unbelievable Jeff]

He kept us up unless you’re trying to claim otherwise. That makes your prediction irrelevant. As long as we stay up and hopefully consolidate, that’s infinitely better than where we would have been without Hughes.

 

We stayed up yes. Not sure whether I would say it was due to him or whether it was due to the other teams around us being so bad. But yes, he was at the helm when we stayed up.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I don't blame Hughes. He joined us during a HUGE decline and steadied us enough for survival.

 

Fully turning this decline around could genuinely take years. Squad, spirit, confidence, expectation and that winning mentality takes time to build and with our current owner and off field management team we are pretty f*cked.

 

Things aren't great under Hughes but would I swap him for Puel or Pellegrino.... NO CHANCE.

 

Would I trust the Muppets that run this club to find someone better than Hughes.... NO CHANCE

 

I'd swap him for Puel, and at least we defended well under Pellegrino.

 

Defences win Championships (and also probably keep teams up).

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I also think the girls we have actually scored seem to be on the lucky side, stunners from Hoj and Bertrand that you can't count on, a breakaway last minute goal by Hoj, a penalty etc. We don't seem to be scoring many where we've just broken a team down and been creative.

[trousers]

Why didn't we get one of these "ner ner ner ner ner, told you so, where's my medal?" threads after the Palace game where our overall performance was similar to last night's and the results in each game could have easily been the same with slightly different rubs of the green?

Edited 18 September, 2018 by trousers

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Why didn't we get one of these "ner ner ner ner ner, told you so, where's my medal?" threads after the Palace game where our performance was similar to last night's and the results in each game could have easily been the same with slightly different rubs of the green?

 

Because my last thread was still open then - but I've had to create a new one as that one was locked for some reason.

[trousers]

Because my last thread was still open then - but I've had to create a new one as that one was locked for some reason.

In that case, I profusely apologise; here's your well deserved medal

 

[Unbelievable Jeff]

In that case, I profusely apologise; here's your well deserved medal

 

 

Cheers buddy!

[saint77]

I also think the girls we have actually scored seem to be on the lucky side, stunners from Hoj and Bertrand that you can't count on, a breakaway last minute goal by Hoj, a penalty etc. We don't seem to be scoring many where we've just broken a team down and been creative.

 

Go away d**k head

[Saint Pete]

I also think the girls we have actually scored seem to be on the lucky side, stunners from Hoj and Bertrand that you can't count on, a breakaway last minute goal by Hoj, a penalty etc. We don't seem to be scoring many where we've just broken a team down and been creative.

So, what you are saying is when the players do something outstanding it's "lucky" and therefore no credit can be given to the manager. Whereas when they make mistakes and miss or concede goals, that can all be put firmly down to Hughes influence [emoji23]

 

That's nice twisting of the facts to suit your agenda even by saintsweb standards.

 

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[Graffito]

We stayed up yes. Not sure whether I would say it was due to him or whether it was due to the other teams around us being so bad. But yes, he was at the helm when we stayed up.

 

When you are near the foot of the table the teams around you are always bad, that’s why they are around you at the foot of the table. Think of another line because that one doesn’t wash.

[Batman]

When you are near the foot of the table the teams around you are always bad, that’s why they are around you at the foot of the table. Think of another line because that one doesn’t wash.

 

It’s safe to say, Hughes is pretty crap. We all know it.

 

12 months ago, before stokes decline, the suggestion of Hughes as saints manager would have been utterly laughed at, ridiculed and dismissed.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

It’s safe to say, Hughes is pretty crap. We all know it.

 

12 months ago, before stokes decline, the suggestion of Hughes as saints manager would have been utterly laughed at, ridiculed and dismissed.

 

Gone by Christmas?

[St Lej]

It’s safe to say, Hughes is pretty crap. We all know it.

 

12 months ago, before stokes decline, the suggestion of Hughes as saints manager would have been utterly laughed at, ridiculed and dismissed.

 

I'm positive however, that when we appointed Hughes, you said he was a decent, competent manager and were pretty pleased with his appointment?

[tajjuk]

Didn't really ever rate him, but thought considering he kept us up that he deserved a chance to take us forward.

 

So far I think he is blowing that chance, results are really no better than last year, 3 home games against 3 poor teams and we aren't wining them.

 

Let's hope the leadership learnt their lesson from last year and don't wait ages before they pull the trigger and they can unearth a gem this time.

 

Would prefer we gambled on an up and coming manager, don't care if where he comes from.

[Graffito]

It’s safe to say, Hughes is pretty crap. We all know it.

 

12 months ago, before stokes decline, the suggestion of Hughes as saints manager would have been utterly laughed at, ridiculed and dismissed.

 

The team having a mental block about playing at home seems fair comment to me. I attend every home game and I feel we’re going to concede and I sense it in the crowd too. Why wouldn’t the players be thinking “here we go again”. It’s up to Hughes and the coaching team to help them out of that mindset but it needs character as well from the players and cutting out the kind of d1ckhead defending we witnessed yet again last night. That’s not the manager, that’s the players f-king up at key moments.

[Badger]

Didn't really ever rate him, but thought considering he kept us up that he deserved a chance to take us forward.

 

So far I think he is blowing that chance, results are really no better than last year, 3 home games against 3 poor teams and we aren't wining them.

 

Let's hope the leadership learnt their lesson from last year and don't wait ages before they pull the trigger and they can unearth a gem this time.

Would prefer we gambled on an up and coming manager, don't care if where he comes from.

 

Having failed with the previous two to such a fashion that Hughes has to come in as our saviour I don't have a great deal of confidence on Reed and Wilson appointing a gem.

 

Worth remembering that last season Rowett might have fallen into the upcoming manager 'gem' category, but hasn't pulled up any trees at Stoke.

 

I think the malaise starts at the top, Gao, no real idea , direction or purpose, and it filters down from there.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So, what you are saying is when the players do something outstanding it's "lucky" and therefore no credit can be given to the manager. Whereas when they make mistakes and miss or concede goals, that can all be put firmly down to Hughes influence [emoji23]

 

That's nice twisting of the facts to suit your agenda even by saintsweb standards.

 

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No, I'm saying that you cannot count on those goals as they tend to be the exception, not the rule.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

When you are near the foot of the table the teams around you are always bad, that’s why they are around you at the foot of the table. Think of another line because that one doesn’t wash.

 

The points the bottom three picked up in their last 10 games was the least since we went to 3 teams being relegated from the Prem, or something like that.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Go away d**k head

 

Good point, well articulated.

 

Also, dickhead is all one word. HTH.

[beancounter saint]

The funny thing is that, had we held on to the lead last night rather than being on the end of a pretty dubious penalty decision, this thread almost certainly wouldn't exist. Such are the vagaries of a game like football. Personally, I thought some of the attacking play showed a fluency we haven't seen for a long time and I'm fairly optimistic this season will end up better than last. One thing I can't understand is why he perseveres with Hoedt rather than Yoshida. I would have thought that Yoshida and Vestergaard might complement each other well as a pairing.

[tajjuk]

Having failed with the previous two to such a fashion that Hughes has to come in as our saviour I don't have a great deal of confidence on Reed and Wilson appointing a gem.

 

Worth remembering that last season Rowett might have fallen into the upcoming manager 'gem' category, but hasn't pulled up any trees at Stoke.

 

I think the malaise starts at the top, Gao, no real idea , direction or purpose, and it filters down from there.

 

Agree it was more hope than expectation. No idea where the club think we are going or what the plans are, the club feels it needs a complete re-boot from top to bottom.

 

The promise from a few years ago has just been squandered and wasted with bad decision after bad decision.

 

Getting the odd transfer wrong is expected, I have no complaints on that part aside Carrillo who was encompassed in the whole backing a failing manager for too long mistake. We are not going to find a Mane every time, and actually I think the summer signings are all looking promising, plus Hoj is starting to come good as well showing the talent that made Bayern buy him as a teenager.

 

But why do we have such a bloated and average squad? Why the persistence in keeping people like Long around who have consistently shown they are not good enough.

 

And JWP, I regularly defend the guy, but that was just idiotic and he is experienced to know better and he is just not kicking on or nailing a place in the team.

 

But why the hell is he marking a guy way taller than him anyway when we are trying to hold on to a lead? Where is the leadership on the pitch and direction from manager?

 

As for Rowett, wouldn't write him off, I think that says more about Stoke as a club and the sort of players the have, a bigger mess than us.

[Super_Uwe]

I still feel Hughes will do a decent job for us, the reality is we are playing better football with him in charge than the last two managers. Somehow he has got to get the players over the mental block they have playing at St Mary's, it's gone beyond poor form now and is IMO our most serious threat this season as it's unlikely our away form will be able to compensate enough to keep us away from the bottom.

 

Other than that, I guess we have to face up to the fact that we haven't yet replaced the talent of van Dijk or the leadership that Fonte provided. That's not to say the current defenders won't ever step up, but they haven't so far. Also Davis' decline has also robbed the team of that steadying influence which is something we needed last night to get us over the finish line.

[tajjuk]

Are we playing better football? IIRC under both Puel and Pellegrino we were amongst the best outside the top 6 for chances created and shots, we just didn't score regularly and didn't hold on to leads.

 

Only difference I can see is that at the moment we have a striker in Ings who takes chances, the inability to hold onto to leads is still there, the terrible poor home form is still there and the same old underperforming faces seem to be getting game time.

[Tamesaint]

The funny thing is that, had we held on to the lead last night rather than being on the end of a pretty dubious penalty decision, this thread almost certainly wouldn't exist. Such are the vagaries of a game like football. Personally, I thought some of the attacking play showed a fluency we haven't seen for a long time and I'm fairly optimistic this season will end up better than last. One thing I can't understand is why he perseveres with Hoedt rather than Yoshida. I would have thought that Yoshida and Vestergaard might complement each other well as a pairing.

 

About time that someone talked sense on this thread.

[Batman]

I'm positive however, that when we appointed Hughes, you said he was a decent, competent manager and were pretty pleased with his appointment?

 

That was in comparison to pellegrino, the situation we were and and taking into account who was doing the choosing

[the saint in winchester]

The funny thing is that, had we held on to the lead last night rather than being on the end of a pretty dubious penalty decision, this thread almost certainly wouldn't exist. Such are the vagaries of a game like football. Personally, I thought some of the attacking play showed a fluency we haven't seen for a long time and I'm fairly optimistic this season will end up better than last. One thing I can't understand is why he perseveres with Hoedt rather than Yoshida. I would have thought that Yoshida and Vestergaard might complement each other well as a pairing.

 

This. I genuinely would like an answer to this question, above all others. Yoshida is a leader and a warrior and should be in the starting team, over Hoedt.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I'm just wondering why people are so quick to defend Hughes, and to want to give him time, when he has all but wasted 5 winnable games.

 

Do we recognise that the team is no better and get rid now, or wait until we've played a number of hard games and get rid around Christmas. Crystal Palace were very clever last season in recognising that they were going to struggle with De Boer and sacked him early.

 

We equally as soft (or even more so) at the back than with Pellegrino, maybe a bit better attacking wise but certainly not pulling up any trees.

 

Personally, I am just willing to recognise this earlier as I have never rated him, call it confirmation bias or whatever you like, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong.

[Cabbage_Face]

Best manager weve had since MoPe, will be hounded out by the mongs.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Best manager weve had since MoPe, will be hounded out by the mongs.

 

What makes you think that?

 

Classy use of that word BTW, let's hope you never have to deal with a disability in your lifetime.

[Cabbage_Face]

What makes you think that?

 

Classy use of that word BTW, let's hope you never have to deal with a disability in your lifetime.

 

Isn't mong short for Mongrel?

[Saints foreva]

The thing is are you confident that the guys who appointed him, as well as sacking their two appointments prior to him, would get the next appointment spot on?

 

I'm personally not sold on Hughes. He was the best we could get in the situation we found ourselves in after Pellegrino but part of me now thinks we should have thanked him and moved on in the summer.

 

His game management seems **** poor and throw into it the players fragile mentality, it's not a surprise we throw away so many points from winning positions under him.

[Baird of the land]

Other poor teams kept us up last season rather than anything particular Hughes did.

This season is just showing how mediocre he is.