What is the point of Southampton FC

[Dusic]

Crazy article though I’m not surprised with this fan base.

 

Is it really needed just 4 games in? Who knows how well Hughes will do?

 

So far he’s been infinitely better than Puel and Pellegrino since arriving. Dare I say on par with Koeman, who had a better team at his disposal.

Far too soon to say he is better than Puel, and I agreed with the decision to sack him.

 

Better in press conferences, but I would imagine fewer points per game for starters.

[Dusic]

Crazy article though I’m not surprised with this fan base.

 

Is it really needed just 4 games in? Who knows how well Hughes will do?

 

So far he’s been infinitely better than Puel and Pellegrino since arriving. Dare I say on par with Koeman, who had a better team at his disposal.

 

And only just noticed the utterly ludicrous bit about being on par with Koeman (7th inheriting a mess, then 6th), which points you out as clueless anyway.

[AussieDog]

So who, exactly, do people want us to be like?

 

Moneybags (and soul-less) Man City?

Arsenal (with almost zero english players)?

Fulham, Brighton, Huddersfield, Cardiff, and probably another half a dozen clubs of a similar ilk (let's see if they are in the Premier League in a couple of years)

Everton (the only thing in their favour is "history")

Liverpool - well, to be honest, they do at least play entertaining attractive football, but even they lose players if a bigger club comes calling (plus, they are arrogant to55ers)

Leicester - living off past glory of 1 Premiership (and who have sold several of their key players from that team...)

Watford? - they might finish 6th this year (unlikely), but how many of their players can you name (and if they do well this season, do you think they will hold on to them next year

 

That leaves Man Utd - as much as I hate to say it but pretty much the biggest club in the world, Spurs (how much did they spend in the transfer market this year?), Chelsea (how many players have they sent out on loan each year for the past 4 years - I think it was around 40 last year wasn't it?)

 

Oh...and Newcastle....great fan base but f*ck all else.

 

Let's be honest, most of us that support Saints do so because it is OUR team. It's where we originated from, migrated to, or gained an affinity for being an "underdog" who occasionally kicks a big teams arse.

 

My ONLY gripe is we don't gamble more often with some of our talented youngsters, or gamble on a lower league player (without having unrealistic expectations if we do sign them).

 

Over the years, which players have given you the best memories? Moran? Williams? Channon? Le Tissier? The Wallace brothers? Bale, Walcott, Even Lallana!

 

It doesn't matter that the majority of them moved on, but they were OUR players. I will still go through the fixtures through the leagues each week and see which teams have ex-Saints, and how they have done, even if they never made it, or made barely any games for our first team (Dom Gape? Lloyd James?, Ben Reeves?). for me it's all part of OUR club and OUR history. I will still follow the U23's and Academy results and be almost as disappointed if they lose as the first team.

 

I could go for ever on home-grown players who have had bit parts in our history and evolution (anyone remember the few games Tony Funnell played for us and the significance of his goals?)

 

Of course, we have signed good players, but normally those who are slightly past their peak, but these days they are asking unrealistic salaries and unless the game introduces some form of salary capping (never gonna happen), things won't change.

 

So, come on all you moaners. Tell me who you want us to be like?

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Article is total crap and deserves derision. Can't believe so many at the start of the thread agreeing. Wouldn't want any of you in the trenches thanks very much. Hughes kept us up last year and has now got us playing entertaining football. Would much rather be a Saints fan where the pain makes the glory all the sweeter. What's the point in supporting a big club when winning is par and mostly means **** all?

[hypochondriac]

Article is total crap and deserves derision. Can't believe so many at the start of the thread agreeing. Wouldn't want any of you in the trenches thanks very much. Hughes kept us up last year and has now got us playing entertaining football. Would much rather be a Saints fan where the pain makes the glory all the sweeter. What's the point in supporting a big club when winning is par and mostly means **** all?

The choice isn't between supporting a big club and the current incarnation of saints. I'd rather support the version of saints from three or four years ago than the saints of the last two seasons. Agreed?

[hypochondriac]

The article is a bit over-the-top, but it has some truth about it. Surely after the near relegation it was the perfect time to move Reed, Kreuger and Ross W. on - rejuvenate the Chairman, Director of Football and Head of Recruitment positions and give Hughes an opportunity to lift the squad from the last two years of mediocrity. As it is, we have improved the squad marginally but have the same Board, Executive and Recruitment people all overseen by an unknown and passive ownership. Until that changes the main message of the 365 article remains likely.

Yep. That about sums it up.

[Professor]

Ever since Jimmy Hill, as Chairman of the PFA in 1961, succeeded in scrapping the maximum fees for professional footballers, player's wages have gone through the roof with the result that wealthy clubs can buy all the best players. For a time this also meant that if a wealthy individual owned or acquired a club, they could spend as much as they liked to buy success. Blackburn Rovers, in the early 1990s was one example, with the millionaire, Jack Walker, spending huge sums on players, including a record fee for Southampton's Alan Shearer. Blackburn went from the bottom of the second division in 1991 to winning the Premier League in 1994. More recent examples of Abramovich at Chelsea and Sheikh Mansour at Man City are well documented. Football's response was to introduce 'Financial Fair Play' which limited what a club could spend on players. Under PFA, clubs are required to balance the books by spending no more than they earn. Earnings include TV fees and commercial income so that inevitably, the internationally well known clubs, such as Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham, can spend more on players than the anyone else because they have the highest incomes. Wealthy owners can't just pump their own money into a club in the way that people such as Walker and Abramovich previously did.

 

The Bosman ruling has also had a major effect, in giving players the right to move for no fee at the end of their contract. The outcome has been that if a player is wanted by one of the wealthy clubs, he can move on when the opportunity arises. Anyone who thinks that Southampton freely sold players such as Mane, Lovren, Lallana, Shaw, Clyne, Schneiderlin, etc., is sadly mistaken. These players let Southampton know that they would refuse to sign a new contract, meaning they would be free to move for nothing when their contract ended. The club did hold on to Schneiderlin for one more season as there was still some length in his contract but when they tried to do the same with Van Dijk they were unsuccessful because of an unexpected dip in Van Dijk's form. Whether that was deliberate by the player, who knows, but it does suggest that a club can't force a player to do his best for them if he is determined on a transfer.

 

The way Southampton conducts its affairs isn't unique to this club. It involves spending as much on players as the club's income and the FFP rules will allow. It tries to find players with potential, that other teams haven't noticed, because to buy established senior internationals, in the way that the likes of Liverpool and Man U do, is beyond the club's means. At Southampton, it also tries to compliment transfers in with players brought through the Academy and although players such as Bale and Walcott are the exceptions, the current squad does contain some five Academy graduates. Even if an Academy player doesn't make the first team, he can benefit the club if a transfer to a lower league club adds to Southampton's income.

 

What you can't do as a middle-ranking professional club, is what that article implies. You can't stop players moving to a big club if one comes calling, delay maybe, but stop no, and you can't spend more on players transfers and wages than the FFP rules allow. What yoiu can do is to increase your commercial income so that the FFP cap is higher. One way to do that is to market the club in parts of the World that still have scope for earning more income. With China being a country where there is huge untapped potential, Southampton chose a Chinese owner to invest in the club and have embarked on marketing the team in China. Selling club shirts and calendars in airports in China might seem a small step but income from advertising and the image rights of players could offer substantial opportunities. It will be interesting to see if we heat about the recruitment of at Chinese player for the first team squad.

 

The point of Southampton is survival in the Premier League. This means aiming at a top half finish because all the bottom half clubs are at risk of relegation. Replacing one of the existing top 5 or 6 is not likely, not on a permanent basis, but when one or two of them have a poor season, there can be an opportunity for a place in the Europa League, or, as Leicester showed, even a shot at the title but if a middle-ranking club is successful, it must expect its players to become targets for the wealthy clubs, as has happened to Saints, and to Leicester.

[ally_uk]

Who would I like us to be like? The team we used to be not afraid to play youth and give them a chance and playing exciting attacking football.

 

When we finished 6th why didn't we push on? Tie Good key players down? Manager? Bring in 2 or 3 quality additions...

 

How did it go so wrong? We froze got scared? Or just settled I would of gone right this is our chance to press on!

[southamptonfc]

Saints are in the same position as the majority of clubs in the Premier League. The first target is survival, then just maybe you have a good year and nick a Europa spot or a cup win.

 

That is how it's been since the mid 80s and that's how it will always be. If fans of those clubs don't like it, go support a glory club.

 

People who write 'articles' like this are detached from reality. Plenty of examples in there, I'll pick one "Their model was simple but brilliant: buy unpolished gems". If that was so easy, everybody would be at it. Guess what? Everybody is at it!

 

Not one mention of the academy in there either, I seem to remember at one point their model was simple. Just train up world class players. Why can't we just do that again? It's so simple, easy! Any moron could do it!

[whelk]

Waste of time article. Yeah winning at football is just matter of vision and implementing and then carry on winning and playing with verve until the end of time. Simple.

No question of some players (Mane) working out well and some (Boufal) not so well.

Obvs Pellegrino was unmitigated disaster but that wasn’t planned and show me a club that hasn’t made disastrous managerial appointments. Issue is mainly idiots beliving all the hype about black box, hoovering bed bugs from hotels and tracking players while embryos that we all believed we were better than the others. We just rode crest of wave not simple to stay there.

 

What is the point of the PL not us?

[Maggie May]

And only just noticed the utterly ludicrous bit about being on par with Koeman (7th inheriting a mess, then 6th), which points you out as clueless anyway.

 

Hughes has only been in charge for around 10 Premier League games, darling.

 

Koeman inherited a mess but was given the tools to buy good replacements.

[Secret Site Agent]

So, which one of you wrote this?

 

I didn't find it balanced at all, just another rant that could be made up from the posts on here.

 

The point of Southampton Football Club is that it is a business in the entertainment industry. It's job is to provide a profit to it's shareholders. It's business is to generate an income from it's product which is playing football.

 

At the moment the product they are producing is slightly lacking but with an upheaval over the last few years, we will only know after a few more games if the latest changes are any good for the long term product.

 

However, I will throw something into the mix here. How may of us were afraid we would be relegated and were relieved with us finally staying up? Isn't this roller coaster of emotions what we pay for, and support saints for? On a scale of 1-10 who had the greatest emotional uplift, the Saints Fan who found we were saved from relegation or the Man City fan when they won the league by a country mile?

 

The entertainments industry is build on emotional content. People don't watch an action film just to see the hero win in the first half hour, and then spend an hour high fiving all around. People pay and choose to be scared, frightened, feel terrible, feel joy and to laugh their socks off, and watch films where the hero doesn't even win at all.. We enjoy the highs and lows of the season, even if it ****es us off no end. But we also have to be realistic. A great manager at one team can be **** at another. A striker who scores for fun in one league can, as we know to our cost, fail to score in another. The club can only wee-wee with the phallus it has got. There are managers and players that will not come to us, and that we have no chance of signing, there are some that se us as a stepping stone, some that see us as a last chance saloon.

 

And please, don't forget that there are some, and I like to put Danny Ings in this, that will play their socks off for a team that is close to their heart.

 

So what is the point of Southampton FC? It gets us talking and sharing opinions on here for a start.

[DuncanRG]

The choice isn't between supporting a big club and the current incarnation of saints. I'd rather support the version of saints from three or four years ago than the saints of the last two seasons. Agreed?

 

If we watched that team in perpetuity then the victories would start to lose their sweetness. Those great years created a sense of entitlement which lingers now.

[edprice1984]

Does every other premier league club sell its best players asap?

Most do - even the bigger clubs sometimes

 

Does every other premier club drop from 6th to 17th in 2 seasons?

No, however take a look at the number of teams who have got relegated or nearly relegated following a decent season before!

 

Does every other premier league club sell players to one club constantly?

Agree with this one, although I am sure there are some teams that have purchased a number of players from another team - Chelsea went through a period of buying West Ham players for example.

 

Does every other club have a squad costing c£300m?

Yes! Take a look across the league and work out the cost of Palace, Everton, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham even Bournemouth and Brighton!

 

Does every other club have one.of it's highest paid players being the 3rd choice GK.

No, but plenty of clubs have their highest paid players on the bench!

 

Does every other club have its transfer record out on loan?

Plenty have over the past few years. Clearly a mistake to sign him and for that fee. (Also, to be pendantic, Danny Ings will become our record signing)

[Micky]

Phew..... I was worried for a moment there. Good to see that common sense has broken out now. Great posts Prof and SSA, the reality of football explained for those that need it.

[Dusic]

Hughes has only been in charge for around 10 Premier League games, darling.

 

Koeman inherited a mess but was given the tools to buy good replacements.

Hughes has had 12 PL games in which we have been average at best.

 

Koeman delivered 7th and 6th.

 

Poles apart.

[egg]

Feck me, that is a sensationalist article. The reality is that the league has a top 6 plus the rest. For a few seasons we were amongst the best of the rest or thereabouts. Since then we've not been able to retain players who wanted to move for the reasons highlighted in that article - we buy in talent, shine it up and sell it. I'm unsure if the article seeks to praise or criticise that approach - as I say, it's sensationalist. When we tried to deviate from that model by stubbornly trying to hold onto VVD it went so badly wrong that we almost got relegated - hopefully we've learned from that. We've also spent huge sums (as Heisenberg likes to repeat over and over) which suggests no lack of a) ambition or b) resources. Sadly a number of those transfers haven't all worked out but that's football - it ain't played with 20/20 hindsight. We've made (imo) one wrong managerial recruitment. Puel played dull football but if Mourinho or most current PL managers had that squad it wouldn't have performed any better. Pelelgrino was a disaster and we held on too long, but that's the only we've made manger wise for me.

 

All in all, there's a hell of a lot more point to SFC than that article and some of the people that post on here.

[edprice1984]

I would like to point out that although the Premier League has many faults, at least it is competitive. Compare it to the Bundesliga (Bayern have won the last 6 Championships); La Liga (since 2000-01; only Valencia (twice) and Atletico Madrid have managed to break the dominance of Real and Barca) and Serie A (where Juventus have won the last 7 championships).

 

Even with Man City's recent dominance, they are going to be significantly challenged by Liverpool this season, with any one in the League able to beat the top 6 - even Saints (although it has been a while).

[Heisenberg]

2 years ago we were a top 10 club pushing the top 6.

 

Now we are a bottom 14 club happy just to be in the Premier league.

 

Funny how quickly things change and ambitions drop

[Dalek2003]

Saints are in the same position as the majority of clubs in the Premier League. The first target is survival, then just maybe you have a good year and nick a Europa spot or a cup win.

 

That is how it's been since the mid 80s and that's how it will always be. If fans of those clubs don't like it, go support a glory club.

 

People who write 'articles' like this are detached from reality. Plenty of examples in there, I'll pick one "Their model was simple but brilliant: buy unpolished gems". If that was so easy, everybody would be at it. Guess what? Everybody is at it!

 

Not one mention of the academy in there either, I seem to remember at one point their model was simple. Just train up world class players. Why can't we just do that again? It's so simple, easy! Any moron could do it!

 

I got lambasted for saying this a few years ago and probably an infraction.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Phew..... I was worried for a moment there. Good to see that common sense has broken out now. Great posts Prof and SSA, the reality of football explained for those that need it.

 

Absolutely and its obvious some need it explaining a lot more than others

[Dark Munster]

And only just noticed the utterly ludicrous bit about being on par with Koeman (7th inheriting a mess, then 6th), which points you out as clueless anyway.

Not to mention "infinitely better" than Puel (8th and a thrilling cup final, inheriting a squad stripped of Mane, Pelle and Big Vic).

[Dark Munster]

So who, exactly, do people want us to be like?

 

Moneybags (and soul-less) Man City?

Arsenal (with almost zero english players)?

Fulham, Brighton, Huddersfield, Cardiff, and probably another half a dozen clubs of a similar ilk (let's see if they are in the Premier League in a couple of years)

Everton (the only thing in their favour is "history")

Liverpool - well, to be honest, they do at least play entertaining attractive football, but even they lose players if a bigger club comes calling (plus, they are arrogant to55ers)

Leicester - living off past glory of 1 Premiership (and who have sold several of their key players from that team...)

Watford? - they might finish 6th this year (unlikely), but how many of their players can you name (and if they do well this season, do you think they will hold on to them next year

 

Yes, I'll take that.

[egg]

2 years ago we were a top 10 club pushing the top 6.

 

Now we are a bottom 14 club happy just to be in the Premier league.

 

Funny how quickly things change and ambitions drop

 

We've had 1 season out of the top 8. That was with a poor manager and a sulking captain. This season is 4 games old - get a grip ffs.

Edited 7 September, 2018 by egg

[once_bitterne]

2 years ago we were a top 10 club pushing the top 6.

 

Now we are a bottom 14 club happy just to be in the Premier league.

 

Funny how quickly things change and ambitions drop

 

Pushing? 2 years ago we were in the top 6.

[ericb]

The thing is there's some truth in that article, the problem is that they go for sensationalism and intentionally skirt over the reasons in cases it p*sses off all the plastic fans that read their site.

 

The truth of the matter is there's no point for us really, same way there's no point for the majority of clubs in the football league. Money has f*cking ruined the game and it's only going to get worse. We can't compete, and when we do we raided and our players unsettled. The problem isn't Southampton, the problem is Sky/BT, overseas fans, foreign owners, bias of the press/media and greedy players and agents.

 

But given football365 are owned by Sky they're never going to print that story are they? I mean imagine if they did? Imagine if the headline was "What's the point in most of these clubs because our owner have killed the sport as a competitive entity". It's not really going to fly is it?

 

Leicester - living off past glory of 1 Premiership (and who have sold several of their key players from that team...)

 

Sorry are you really trying to say that's a bad thing? What you expect them to compete for the title every year? Or do you think top four is better than winning it once in your lifetime and living off that past glory?

 

Jesus f*cking christ some of our fans are absolutely batsh*t mental. This isn't a computer game, it's basically unheard of to do what Leicester did, and it most likely won't happen again in my lifetime. Everyone, and i mean everyone, would take that without even thinking.

[LaptopSaint]

Leicester every time. Could die happy.

[SaintZamboni]

There’s always a team that pushes the big time and then it all goes to pieces.

Before us it was Newcastle, buying French, making Europe, selling the best, replacing poorly and then it all went tits up. Before them stoke and Fulham were the European qualifiers, what happened there?

Next it was saints. Buying well, making Europe, selling the best and it’s all gone tits up.

It’s too early to say what will happen to Burnley but I could hazard a guess.

Watford currently this seasons contenders for best of the rest followed by fall from grace.

People need to get a grip and realize that this is nothing new, it’s just that it’s happening to us and not someone else!

[Saint-Fred]

I would like to point out that although the Premier League has many faults, at least it is competitive. Compare it to the Bundesliga (Bayern have won the last 6 Championships); La Liga (since 2000-01; only Valencia (twice) and Atletico Madrid have managed to break the dominance of Real and Barca) and Serie A (where Juventus have won the last 7 championships).

 

Even with Man City's recent dominance, they are going to be significantly challenged by Liverpool this season, with any one in the League able to beat the top 6 - even Saints (although it has been a while).

 

This is absolute rubbish. The premier league is no more competitive than any of the leagues you mention. In 26 seasons on 6 teams have won it.

If you take into consideration the two outliers which are single wins by Blackburn and Leicester then it's 4 teams in 24 seasons.

Last season Man city got 100 points.

The premier league is as unbalanced as all the other European leagues.

[Turkish]

Let's give it three, and then five years and we'll see where Wolves and Fulham are.

 

No doubt, what with them having a clear plan and ambitions and everything they will both finish top ten this year and then just build and invest and grow and finish higher then build and invest and grow and finish higher again then build and invest and grow and finish higher then build and invest and grow and finish higher again. Then build, invest and grow and finish higher. And then after that, build and invest and grow and finish higher then build and invest and grow and finish higher again.

 

Must be brilliant to be a Wolves and Fulham fan right now, safe in the knowledge that their club will never have a bad season ever again. I mean, if you're a 15 year old Fulham fan that's about fifty non stop seasons of success to look forward to. Brilliant.

 

Fulham and wolves are the new Stoke, we should all wish we were them, yes?

[Heisenberg]

Fulham and wolves are the new Stoke, we should all wish we were them, yes?

 

I think we are the new Stoke mate.

 

Hence the question What-is-the-point-of-Southampton-FC?

[saint1977]

So who, exactly, do people want us to be like?

 

Moneybags (and soul-less) Man City?

Arsenal (with almost zero english players)?

Fulham, Brighton, Huddersfield, Cardiff, and probably another half a dozen clubs of a similar ilk (let's see if they are in the Premier League in a couple of years)

Everton (the only thing in their favour is "history")

Liverpool - well, to be honest, they do at least play entertaining attractive football, but even they lose players if a bigger club comes calling (plus, they are arrogant to55ers)

Leicester - living off past glory of 1 Premiership (and who have sold several of their key players from that team...)

Watford? - they might finish 6th this year (unlikely), but how many of their players can you name (and if they do well this season, do you think they will hold on to them next year

 

That leaves Man Utd - as much as I hate to say it but pretty much the biggest club in the world, Spurs (how much did they spend in the transfer market this year?), Chelsea (how many players have they sent out on loan each year for the past 4 years - I think it was around 40 last year wasn't it?)

 

Oh...and Newcastle....great fan base but f*ck all else.

 

Let's be honest, most of us that support Saints do so because it is OUR team. It's where we originated from, migrated to, or gained an affinity for being an "underdog" who occasionally kicks a big teams arse.

 

My ONLY gripe is we don't gamble more often with some of our talented youngsters, or gamble on a lower league player (without having unrealistic expectations if we do sign them).

 

Over the years, which players have given you the best memories? Moran? Williams? Channon? Le Tissier? The Wallace brothers? Bale, Walcott, Even Lallana!

 

It doesn't matter that the majority of them moved on, but they were OUR players. I will still go through the fixtures through the leagues each week and see which teams have ex-Saints, and how they have done, even if they never made it, or made barely any games for our first team (Dom Gape? Lloyd James?, Ben Reeves?). for me it's all part of OUR club and OUR history. I will still follow the U23's and Academy results and be almost as disappointed if they lose as the first team.

 

I could go for ever on home-grown players who have had bit parts in our history and evolution (anyone remember the few games Tony Funnell played for us and the significance of his goals?)

 

Of course, we have signed good players, but normally those who are slightly past their peak, but these days they are asking unrealistic salaries and unless the game introduces some form of salary capping (never gonna happen), things won't change.

 

So, come on all you moaners. Tell me who you want us to be like?

 

Great post. Whilst I’m keen to see the back of Gao, Les and Kreuger, this club has added a lot to English, and world, football in the last 50 years. I’d like to have seen us win more trophies but I’ve no regrets about being a Saints fan. Is Football 365 linked to Bet365 at all? If so, could be another anti-Hughes pop originating in the Potteries?

[Turkish]

The thing is there's some truth in that article, the problem is that they go for sensationalism and intentionally skirt over the reasons in cases it p*sses off all the plastic fans that read their site.

 

The truth of the matter is there's no point for us really, same way there's no point for the majority of clubs in the football league. Money has f*cking ruined the game and it's only going to get worse. We can't compete, and when we do we raided and our players unsettled. The problem isn't Southampton, the problem is Sky/BT, overseas fans, foreign owners, bias of the press/media and greedy players and agents.

 

But given football365 are owned by Sky they're never going to print that story are they? I mean imagine if they did? Imagine if the headline was "What's the point in most of these clubs because our owner have killed the sport as a competitive entity". It's not really going to fly is it?

 

 

 

Sorry are you really trying to say that's a bad thing? What you expect them to compete for the title every year? Or do you think top four is better than winning it once in your lifetime and living off that past glory?

 

Jesus f*cking christ some of our fans are absolutely batsh*t mental. This isn't a computer game, it's basically unheard of to do what Leicester did, and it most likely won't happen again in my lifetime. Everyone, and i mean everyone, would take that without even thinking.

 

It wasn’t that long ago some of our fans were proclaiming “champions league or nothing!” The league cup and the FA Cup was beneath us in those days. They all wanted a 4th placed finish rather than actually winning something, incredible.

 

As you say there is some truth in the article, the premier league is like all the other major leagues in Europe Harlem globetrotters v Washington generals. In the premier league we are all cannon fodder for the big boys. We are all meant to stand back admire the brilliant vision of 20 yard passe whilst the sky pundits tell us how amazing it all is.

 

 

There is a lot wrong at saints and has been for s couple of years so we haven’t helped ourselves but the game isn’t set up for clubs likes saints to succeed and the people running the game don’t want us too.

[adrian lord]

A badly written article.

[red&white56]

2 years ago we were a top 10 club pushing the top 6.

 

Now we are a bottom 14 club happy just to be in the Premier league.

 

Funny how quickly things change and ambitions drop

 

It's all down to perspective. Eight years ago we were in league one, now we're PL. That's an achievement and a reflection of ambition!!