Everton vs Saints - Build Up

[Saint IQ]

Playing 3 CBs is fine if you are playing away or at home to a very good side and are able to counter very well. At home to teams like Burnley though it clearly isn't the way to go about winning games and scoring goals.

[VectisSaint]

Playing 3 CBs is fine if you are playing away or at home to a very good side and are able to counter very well. At home to teams like Burnley though it clearly isn't the way to go about winning games and scoring goals.

 

To be honest it was not playing 3 at the back that was the problem, it was more to do with what was in front and playing Cedric who was clearly not ready, which was to be expected given his delayed return. We needed more energy and invention further forward, Lemina and Austin especially did not help in that regard and nor did Bertrand in the formation we started with (which Blackmore described as 3-4-3). Expect Hughes to continue with 3 CBs v Everton but with Yoshida instead of Hoedt, but with Ings and Moi up front instead of Austin.

[doddisalegend]

We were stronger with Gabbi on the pitch and Austin off it towards the end of the match, so why start with Austin up front?

 

 

I'm not sure that had much to do with Gabbi. If it had been Gabbi starting and Austin coming on for the last 20 minutes we'd all be saying we looked better with Austin. None of our strikers would have looked good the way we where playing the first 60 minutes of that game.

[Window Cleaner]

I'm not sure that had much to do with Gabbi. If it had been Gabbi starting and Austin coming on for the last 20 minutes we'd all be saying we looked better with Austin. None of our strikers would have looked good the way we where playing the first 60 minutes of that game.

 

To me Burnley faded badly from about the hour onwards and our formation change profitted from that. It's kind of normal, they played Thursday evening I believe. I'm not at all sure that the Saints 60+ minute formation would have held out before that when Burnley were not ****ged out. Hughes got it about right.

Edited 13 August, 2018 by Window Cleaner

[edprice1984]

For those who are going, I am driving up independently from Gloucester and looking to have a pint or two in the Brewdog bar (Manolis Yard, 8 Colquitt St, Liverpool L1 4DE) before heading up to Kirkdale on the MerseyRail. (Staying with family in Wallasey, so should be an interesting evening, especially if we win!).

 

Looking to be in the pub for 11.30 - midday.

 

Personally think we have to start with four or five in midfield and keep two upfront. If we invite pressure, we will get stuffed. Need to take the game to them.

[Lighthouse]

Playing 3 CBs is fine if you are playing away or at home to a very good side and are able to counter very well. At home to teams like Burnley though it clearly isn't the way to go about winning games and scoring goals.

 

It can work with a striker who isn’t as immobile as Austin. That was the problem first half, Redmond and Armstrong had pretty much nothing to work with.

[spyinthesky]

Shame that our dear friend Cuca Martina (who can forget the screamer v Arsenal amongst the generally 'average' at best performances in a Saints shirt?) will not be in consideration for the annual 'one point at best' visit to Goodison Park.

 

Apparently Everton were looking at a £2m transfer fee (yes £2m!!!) for Cuca but have now settled for a loan arrangement, if some Championship club will come in and do the business.

[Saint-Fred]

I can't see us keeping a clean sheet and therefore we would need to score two to win.

I can't see us scoring more than one, therefore at best a draw, more likely a defeat by the odd goal though IMO.

 

Looking at the fixtures I am not sure where I would predict our first win will be.

We desperately need an upturn in home form and start turning draws at home into wins. Perhaps Ings may be the catalyst for that?

[st.bangkok]

We will lose at Everton if he starts with three at the back. If he is going to be stubborn and persist with that in light of how it changed when we went 4-4-2 then he needs to go. We looked much better and to be honest if we can start finding the net, which we will, we could be back in the hunt for 8th - 12th spot.

[Dusic]

Richarlison and Walcott will exploit the space behind the wing backs, and Sigurdsson the space in front of the defence if we play similarly to yesterday.

 

Match up their 4-2-3-1 for the best chance of points.

 

The 5 man defence means we lose out in midfield whilst having two CBs marking nobody and two wing backs unsure of their role.

[MilwaukeeSaint]

If we go 5 at the back(hopefully not):

 

McCarthy

Cedric Yoshida Vestegaard Hoedt Bertrand

Lemina Romeu

Redmond Ings Elyounoussi

 

If we go 4 at the back:

 

McCarthy

Cedric Vestegaard Yoshida Bertrand

Lemina Romeu

Redmond Armstrong Elyounoussi

Ings

 

Think Yoshida's pace (compared to our other CBs) will be important against the likes of Walcott and Richarlison.

[jarhead5]

I'm surprised no one has included Bednarek. He looked good at the end of last season and played well in the WC.

Any word on Armstrong? He picked up a knock and was subbed off.

I feel that 3-4-3 can work if we use the right personnel. Vestegaard was incredible and will be better with better speed around him. Stephens did ok. Hoedt had one good tackle, but was mostly a liability.

I would go with 2 up top with 1 central attacking mid. This would help get the wingbacks higher up the pitch.

Hojbjerg needs a look this weekend. Romeu seemed to disappear in the game. Lemina forced everything and gave the ball away to easily. He is clearly trying to be creative in a position that is too far back. Maybe Hughes should try him further up. He is clearly class, but currently not a fit for us.

I would start:

McCarthy

Bednarek Vestegaard Yoshida

Cedric/JWP Hojbjerg Romeu Bertrand

Lemina

Ings Gallgher/Gabbi

[eddie]

bah. 3 at the back isn’t a ‘bad system’ or destined to fail. it’s worked wonders for us in the past. Under Koeman if I recall correctly it got us an away win at Stamford Bridge. We have the same wing backs as before. It might have just been that Burnley set up to counter that formation. Dyche hinted as much in his presser. I wouldn’t mind giving it another chance. Ings for me has to start on the basis of yesterday, and I’d have Yoshida instead of Stephens. Those are about the only important changes for me, not having a clue about the ins and outs of countering Everton.

[benjii]

For those who are going, I am driving up independently from Gloucester and looking to have a pint or two in the Brewdog bar (Manolis Yard, 8 Colquitt St, Liverpool L1 4DE) before heading up to Kirkdale on the MerseyRail. (Staying with family in Wallasey, so should be an interesting evening, especially if we win!).

 

Looking to be in the pub for 11.30 - midday.

 

Personally think we have to start with four or five in midfield and keep two upfront. If we invite pressure, we will get stuffed. Need to take the game to them.

 

You're going to leave a car unattended in Liverpool overnight? Good luck.

[benjii]

Richarlison and Walcott will exploit the space behind the wing backs, and Sigurdsson the space in front of the defence if we play similarly to yesterday.

 

Match up their 4-2-3-1 for the best chance of points.

 

The 5 man defence means we lose out in midfield whilst having two CBs marking nobody and two wing backs unsure of their role.

 

Indeed. It'll be the same as Burnley's with 3 centre backs up against one big striker. Waste of time. Back 4 please.

[Pamplemousse]

Lee Mason is the referee

[doddisalegend]

Indeed. It'll be the same as Burnley's with 3 centre backs up against one big striker. Waste of time. Back 4 please.

 

and we still struggled to defend our goal...

[saintant]

No point playing 3 centre backs unless you have the players to do it and they are well drilled. Seems to me we end up with a back five as we get outnumbered in midfield plus we have two holding midfielders so including the goalkeeper that's 8 players with defensive mindset! The two wingbacks must be prepared to motor up and down the pitch, the centre backs need to be aware how and when to provide cover and the two defensive misfielders can't rigidly sit in front of the defence. It's a recipe for zero creativity so won't result in many victories in my opinion.

[Pamplemousse]

Having three centre backs is useless when the midfield is completely outnumbered. We need three central midfielders.

[JRM]

This argument about 3 centre backs is already becoming tiresome. Clearly it worked in some games for us last year and we are going to continue to use it especially against teams with more attacking threat. For it to work properly we need wing backs to get involved in attacks and pace up front to hit teams on the break. Austin doesn't give us that. We looked completely uncoordinated in pre season games so it seems Hughes has identified the system but not the players who suit to play in it.

 

I read Richarlson may be a doubt for the weekend, fingers crossed.

[stevy777_x]

Having three centre backs is useless when the midfield is completely outnumbered. We need three central midfielders.

 

The whole objective of 3 at the back is to outnumber teams in midfield and to attack in numbers quickly.

It just needs to be used properly and full backs to have extremely high endurance as they need to be at both end s of the pitch very quickly and very mobile strikers. I m starting to believe that some of the players are as thick as some fans who don tunderstand the concept of the system.

[Shroppie]

I'm not sure that had much to do with Gabbi. If it had been Gabbi starting and Austin coming on for the last 20 minutes we'd all be saying we looked better with Austin. None of our strikers would have looked good the way we where playing the first 60 minutes of that game.

I don't believe that's true. Gabbiadini provides movement, Austin doesn't. The ball sticks with Gabbiadini, not with Austin. Gabbiadini drops deep to find space and was already showing a good understanding with Ings, swapping position. Once he can on we looked all together livelier.

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

I don't believe that's true. Gabbiadini provides movement, Austin doesn't. The ball sticks with Gabbiadini, not with Austin. Gabbiadini drops deep to find space and was already showing a good understanding with Ings, swapping position. Once he can on we looked all together livelier.

 

 

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But we had already improved before Gabbi came on by going four at the back which saw Austin more involved.

[Toon Saint]

As others have said back to 4-2-3-1 for me. It might mean less playing time for some of our CB’s but surely benefits the rest of the squad with attacking players in their more natural positions. I’d probably go:

 

—————McCarthy

Cedric—Maya—Jannik—Bertrand

———Romeu—-Lemina

Redmond—Armstrong—Moi

——————Ings

 

Would like to see a Gabbi/Ings partnership tested at some point, and there is an argument for including JWP over Redmond for his positional discipline away from home, but reckon we’d have a decent chance of a point with the team above.

 

 

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[pimpin4rizeal]

The whole objective of 3 at the back is to outnumber teams in midfield and to attack in numbers quickly.

It just needs to be used properly and full backs to have extremely high endurance as they need to be at both end s of the pitch very quickly and very mobile strikers. I m starting to believe that some of the players are as thick as some fans who don tunderstand the concept of the system.

 

This^ maybe it worked less effective yesterday as we played more of a 3-4-3 with Redmond and Armstrong wide where if we played 352 we could have three central midfielders so definitely not outnumbered in cm.

 

I'd quite like to see this line up

McCarthy

Yoshida vestergaard hoedt

 

Cedric. Lemina romeau. Bertrand

Armstrong

 

Gabbi ings

[Shroppie]

But we had already improved before Gabbi came on by going four at the back which saw Austin more involved.

I think the improvement had everything to do with Elyounoussi and Ings and not a lot to do with Austin.

 

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[Useful Idiot]

This^ maybe it worked less effective yesterday as we played more of a 3-4-3 with Redmond and Armstrong wide where if we played 352 we could have three central midfielders so definitely not outnumbered in cm.

 

I'd quite like to see this line up

McCarthy

Yoshida vestergaard hoedt

 

Cedric. Lemina romeau. Bertrand

Armstrong

 

Gabbi ings

 

This. The other two ways to get it to work are to have a midfield box or a diamond.

 

Wales used to play a 3-6-1/5-4-1 with four narrow midfielders who allowed the ball to be played out wide as they were confident in their ability to deal with crosses. With Vestergaard in the team we could probably do something similar.

 

----------------GK----------------

------CB-------CB-------CB-------

WB-------DM-------DM--------WB

--------AM------------AM--------

---------------ST----------------

 

Wing backs drop in when defending.

 

We played a flat 4 in midfield when out of possession which allowed us to be outnumbered in central midfield. We needed one of Redmond or Armstrong to stay narrow then the ball was on the other side of the pitch to keep the numbers through the middle. As they were covering wide it meant that A) we couldn't press effectively as it left too many gaps and B) we couldn't cut passing lines as we only had Lemina and Romeu covering them. This gave Burnley the freedom of the pitch.

 

Our system basically had all of the negatives of a 4-4-2 but without an additional striker to put pressure on their defence.

 

It's not the back 3 that was the issue, it was the way the midfield operated.

[doddisalegend]

I think the improvement had everything to do with Elyounoussi and Ings and not a lot to do with Austin.

 

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I don't disagree but watching the highlights ( I was at the game to) Austin wasn't as bad as people make out and involved in a few of our better chances.

 

Who ever played the first 60 minutes as striker would looked poor as,we had no control of midfield insolating the striker.

[John Boy Saint]

Lee Mason is the referee

Do they have a cryogenic facility to store these buggers in alongside the FAs St George’s Park!!

 

Hang on just looked and aside from having the highest average age of referees in Europe. Lee Mason is doing City v Uddersfield

We have Mr Perma-tan Amble round the pitch: Andre Marriner.

Jack Stephens (if he plays) is going to love that, and going to have to keep his trap shut, in the Celta friendly he was on the whistle and blew for a very soft decision against Jack. The brief exchange between them was a bit spiky from Jack, seems the “injustice” served by Marriner upon him at the Emirates last season was still a bit sore.

[Nordic Saint]

Everton were one of the 6 teams we beat in the league last season. In fact, we beat them at home and drew at Goodison. Of the other 5 teams we beat, 2, West Brom and Swansea, have been relegated. That leaves only Everton, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace and West Ham as teams we managed to beat last season. So, how we perform against Everton might give us some indication of whether we are going to match or even improve on the number of wins we had last season. As we drew up there at the end of last season and were unlucky not to win, and most fans on here feel we have strengthened our squad considerably in the summer, a draw would be reasonable.

[Charlie Wayman]

Surely we'll play 4-4-2 away from home and maybe switch to 4-3-3 later in the second half if we can hold onto the ball, take the initiative and press them for a late winner. Hughes will play for and settle for a 0-0.

 

Three at the back must be a non-starter if he wants something from the match.

[CanadaSaint]

If the players aren't committed (or suited) to three at the back, that won't have changed after Sunday.

 

Some of its suitability depends on which Romeu and which Lemina turns up (which is unpredictable), but much of it depends on mobility (which is why playing both Vestergaard and Hoedt is very risky, and why Yoshida's game reading and mobility are so important). Height and mobility is a very expensive package in today's game, and our budget probably only gets us one or the other.

 

Like others, I got the feeling from Hughes' post-game comments that he's very fond of three at the back and keen to persist with it.

 

In fairness to him, it's hard to read when Sunday's transformation probably had more to do with what we were doing up front than what we were doing at the back.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

I don't think we'll get anything there, but if he starts with 3 at the back then the result will certainly be worse.

[Faz]

I don't think we'll get anything there, but if he starts with 3 at the back then the result will certainly be worse.

 

Nothing is certain. Especially in football.

[Micky]

Been to three games this season, haven't seen us score yet. Can't make this one, we'll win two nil.

 

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[fanimal]

Hopefully it will be our turn to score a jammy last minute deflected goal. Still grates that one does, hate Everton ever since Highbury.

[Badger]

Hopefully it will be our turn to score a jammy last minute deflected goal. Still grates that one does, hate Everton ever since Highbury.

 

Disliked them prior to that, possibly due to the John Bailey issue, and one or two other minor episodes, but Highbury 1984 cemented their place as c^nts in my book.

[Saint IQ]

It's good Jack Stephens has regularly shown he can play at RB so backup for Cedric isn't an issue.

 

I'd go with this team on Saturday as 3 at the back worked up there last time.

 

----------------McCarthy---------------

------Yoshida-Vestergaard-Bertand----

Cedric----Romeu--Lemina----Targett

--------------Redmond-------------

-----------Manolo---Ings-------------

 

Gunn Hoedt Stephens Hojberg JWP Armstrong Austin

Elyounoussi

 

Can't work out who to drop from the bench of those 8.

 

Long, Davis, Gallagher, Bednerek, Reed, Forster already not in squad

[Cabbage_Face]

If we win this I’ll move to Kenya

 

 

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[mrfahaji]

 

I'd go with this team on Saturday as 3 at the back worked up there last time.

 

 

They are managed by a different person though. Presumably Silva won't employ the same tactics and formation as Allardyce?

[philelec]

If we win this I’ll move to Kenya

 

 

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With no internet - Promise?

[Crab Lungs]

It's good Jack Stephens has regularly shown he can play at RB so backup for Cedric isn't an issue.

 

I'd go with this team on Saturday as 3 at the back worked up there last time.

 

----------------McCarthy---------------

------Yoshida-Vestergaard-Bertand----

Cedric----Romeu--Lemina----Targett

--------------Redmond-------------

-----------Manolo---Ings-------------

 

Gunn Hoedt Stephens Hojberg JWP Armstrong Austin

Elyounoussi

 

Can't work out who to drop from the bench of those 8.

 

Long, Davis, Gallagher, Bednerek, Reed, Forster already not in squad

 

 

I like this lineup.

 

Get rid of Hoedt. Absolutely sh1te.

[Crab Lungs]

Because it was used to open up their attack. They played 3 forwards who suddenly had few defensive requirements, and usually played a central midfielder like Fabregas too who'd get forward. Hughes does it and it turns to a back 5 and 2 or 3 defensive midfielders.

 

I don't hate 343 but I hate the negative way we use it as 532 or 5311.

 

343 with Mo, Gabbiadini and Ings given a lot of freedom in attack would be a very different situation.

 

Ditto the last bit.... it’s the personnel used that impacts the way we play, not the formation (well not completely - it’s how you utilise it)

[verlaine1979]

Because it was used to open up their attack. They played 3 forwards who suddenly had few defensive requirements, and usually played a central midfielder like Fabregas too who'd get forward. Hughes does it and it turns to a back 5 and 2 or 3 defensive midfielders.

 

I don't hate 343 but I hate the negative way we use it as 532 or 5311.

 

343 with Mo, Gabbiadini and Ings given a lot of freedom in attack would be a very different situation.

 

Also worth noting that they spent £35m bringing Luis back at the start of that season, but were completely open playing him in a back four. Playing a back five specifically enabled them to get the best out of him building from the back, without really having to rely on him one on one defensively.

 

We, on the other hand, don't appear to be using a back five because it best suits our squad, but because several seasons of misfiring in attack have made our current manager especially nervous about conceding.

[captainchris]

Come on Saints go positive, this is very winnable ....

[aintforever]

I would probably go with:

 

------------------McCarthy-----------------

Cedric----Yoshida---Vestergaard----Bertand

----------Romeu----------Lemina----------

Elyounoussi----Armstrong------Redmond

--------------------Ings----------------------

 

Can't see us getting anything though.

[SuperSAINT]

Moi a doubt for the game.

 

@AdamBlackmore: #saintsfc midfielder Stuart Armstrong returned to training with the first team today after a knock against Burnley. Moi Elyounoussi is a doubt for Saturday’s game at Everton with a tight hamstring

[Batman]

Hughes Presser.....

 

Everton have made a big investment in team and manager

we hope this is a good time to play them with the amount of change they have had

Games at Goodison always hard but we got a good point last time there and should have won

We played well then and hope for more of the same

I have had an input in all players that have come into Southampton

Whether that is the same for Silva, no idea

We have discussed it about players leaving still this month

Our default position is the door is closed as we are not actively looking to sell anyone

some may go out on loan

Clearly, we expect to do a lot better than last season

it was a set back obviously and we will get back to the path to where we were

top half of the prem and competing for european places is where we want to return.

[SuperSAINT]

Hughes Presser.....

 

Everton have made a big investment in team and manager

we hope this is a good time to play them with the amount of change they have had

Games at Goodison always hard but we got a good point last time there and should have won

We played well then and hope for more of the same

I have had an input in all players that have come into Southampton

Whether that is the same for Silva, no idea

We have discussed it about players leaving still this month

Our default position is the door is closed as we are not actively looking to sell anyone

some may go out on loan

Clearly, we expect to do a lot better than last season

it was a set back obviously and we will get back to the path to where we were

top half of the prem and competing for european places is where we want to return.

 

Cheers for doing your recaps.

[Dusic]

If Moi doesn't make it as sounds likely then I think we will go with 3 CBs again due to a lack of attacking wide players, unless Armstrong could play on the opposite side to Redmond.