Saints 0 Burnley 0 - Post Match

[Red]

If you think Ings poses no more injury risk than any other player (and I thought he'd just been unlucky till I saw the injuries he picked prior to joining Liverpool), then you're clearly on the wind-up.

 

Again, to repeat, its perfectly consistent to rate the player but have concerns about the structure of deal if, as reports suggest, the club has little protection in the event of an injury. Not a particularly difficult position to understand unless you're being obtuse.

 

Has someone been watching Shawshank Redemption perchance?

[OttawaSaint]

Has someone been watching Shawshank Redemption perchance?

 

I think so. Mods! Send Shurlock to solitary for a month.

[Ralph Wiggum]

With the benefit of hindsight...

 

352 didn't work on the day, but this doesn't mean it won't work all the time. Fair play to Hughes for changing it up. Gabbi and Ings rotating through the #9 position in the second half held promise, and I would love to see more of it, but this may be a at a risk of Armstrong missing out and his first half was a diamond in a sea of turds (hopefully he just took a knock). Romeu has fallen a fair bit off the pace, but I don't think we can use just Lemina in a holding role and we haven't really got anyone that can fill that outright DM role. Hoedt wasn't great - I would prefer Yoshi but I'm not a manager and this isn't FM ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Vestergaard is a very, very good buy, as is Moi.

 

Happy with a point.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Happy with the point against a 'played-in' Burnley - particularly after the first hour. 5 at the back doesn't work for us as it leaves the midfield light and the striker isolated. Because the two wing backs don't operate as wing backs. 4 at the back is the way to go and I would be giving Hoedt a rest, just too many errors, every game at the moment. Ings has to start at Everton, he was different class and can help everyone around him raise their games as well - Redmond benefited greatly from his arrival.

[aintforever]

A draw was probably a fair result, Burnley could have had a couple in the first half but we had our chances in the second. The players certainly looked happier once we changed to a back four.

 

Redmond had a great game and Ings changed the game when he came on - it was so refreshing to see proper movement from a front player, I think he will prove to be a fantastic signing.

[OldNick]

If you think Ings poses no more injury risk than any other player (and I thought he'd just been unlucky till I saw the injuries he picked prior to joining Liverpool), then you're clearly on the wind-up.

 

Again, to repeat, its perfectly consistent to rate the player but have concerns about the structure of deal if, as reports suggest, the club has little protection in the event of an injury. Not a particularly difficult position to understand unless you're being obtuse.

Well that it is to assume we haven't got insurance, and also the insurance companies are a pushover , just wave a player through and give a policy.

[SaintBitterne]

Vestergaard may have the turning speed of a forklift, but is arial presence is unreal!

 

The amount of crosses Burnley put in yesterday( that would have screwed us last year) and his clearances were superb!

 

It is quite funny how we spent all pre season developing this 3 back for it to be sh*** and go back to 442:lol:

 

Fair result, bring on Everton!

[OldNick]

Has someone been watching Shawshank Redemption perchance?

Lol exactly what I thought, hey Sherlock did you see the end of that film, look in your top drawer lol, only teasing

[OldNick]

Vestergaard may have the turning speed of a forklift, but is arial presence is unreal!

 

The amount of crosses Burnley put in yesterday( that would have screwed us last year) and his clearances were superb!

 

It is quite funny how we spent all pre season developing this 3 back for it to be sh*** and go back to 442:lol:

 

Fair result, bring on Everton!

His interception when he put his leg out to get to that cross late in the game was fantastic

[Batman]

His interception when he put his leg out to get to that cross late in the game was fantastic

 

it was great. He is going to get done for pace at some point, but he is clearly a level up on what we had previously.

[CWD]

I'm going to echo other people's comments in that I've never seen such a dramatic change in performance after a tactical shift. It felt like the whole team relaxed and seemed to collectively think, "thank god, we can do this now". Every single player improved and we suddenly looked like Koeman's side again. Ings obviously made a huge difference, and him playing in behind a more advanced striker looks like a great move.

 

I was baffled by the first half. We spent the whole of preseason lining up in a 3-5-2 and then go for an odd 3-4-3 formation which left Austin totally isolated, Lemina and Romeu overrun, and Armstrong shoved out wide. And the less said about the three CBs the better, they had no idea what they were doing at times, not sure who should be covering who/where, and we were very lucky not to be behind at HT.

 

Then the changes were made and we went into a 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 whatever you want to call it, and instantly we started to picking the ball up between the lines and had so many more options going forward. Even Hoedt looked more comfortable as he had Bertrand back beside him to do the more subtle things and he didn't keep having to picking it up on the left touch line with no idea what to do. I actually like Stephens at RB. Far more solid defensively than Cedric and what we lose going forward you gain from having Redmond/Moi having more freedom.

 

It's a odd feeling because at HT I was pretty low and expecting a long tough season, but actually I've come away at the end feeling oddly positive. I just hope Hughes has learned from this and we don't play three at the back (certainly at least at home) again.

[larry12]

The team picks itself now really. Austin nowhere near it for me.

 

McCarthy

Cedric

Yoshida

Vestergarrd

Bertrand

Romeu

Lemina

Armstrong

Redmond

Ely

Ings/Gabbiadini

 

If that team picks itself, you have just confirmed that Les Reed has successfully assembled a pathetically weak squad.

[mrfahaji]

Can’t be arsed to look but pretty sure there were a fair few comments suggesting that the injuries he had had also impacted his pace / performance etc as well.

 

That is surely a reasonable concern? A serious knee injury often affects a player's pace, and he has had two at Liverpool. From his showing yesterday it looks like - hopefully - he might still have that quickness, but most people were saying "IF he has lost his speed" rather than "he HAS" lost it.

[S-Clarke]

His interception when he put his leg out to get to that cross late in the game was fantastic

 

Yeah, I watched that back on the highlights last night. Insane bit of defending. Been a while since we've had defenders doing amazing bits of work!

[LGTL]

The team picks itself now really. Austin nowhere near it for me.

 

McCarthy

Cedric

Yoshida

Vestergarrd

Bertrand

Romeu

Lemina

Armstrong

Redmond

Ely

Ings/Gabbiadini

 

If that team picks itself, you have just confirmed that Les Reed has successfully assembled a pathetically weak squad.

 

Tell me something I don't know.

[krissyboy31]

it was so refreshing to see proper movement from a front player, I think he will prove to be a fantastic signing.

 

And one with a decent 1st touch. Austin spent more time chasing balls he had "trapped' passes put through to him.

 

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[krissyboy31]

Cant really add to what has already been said. Strange really but 1st half our best outfield player was Armstrong yet we were much better as a team once he went off. I didn't get the system we started with. We had 7 players in defensive mode, and yet the defending was shocking. Much better with the back 4 and Lamina playing further forward. We took control of midfield and therefore the game.

 

 

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[Dark Munster]

I'm going to echo other people's comments in that I've never seen such a dramatic change in performance after a tactical shift. It felt like the whole team relaxed and seemed to collectively think, "thank god, we can do this now". Every single player improved and we suddenly looked like Koeman's side again. Ings obviously made a huge difference, and him playing in behind a more advanced striker looks like a great move.

 

I was baffled by the first half. We spent the whole of preseason lining up in a 3-5-2 and then go for an odd 3-4-3 formation which left Austin totally isolated, Lemina and Romeu overrun, and Armstrong shoved out wide. And the less said about the three CBs the better, they had no idea what they were doing at times, not sure who should be covering who/where, and we were very lucky not to be behind at HT.

 

Then the changes were made and we went into a 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 whatever you want to call it, and instantly we started to picking the ball up between the lines and had so many more options going forward. Even Hoedt looked more comfortable as he had Bertrand back beside him to do the more subtle things and he didn't keep having to picking it up on the left touch line with no idea what to do. I actually like Stephens at RB. Far more solid defensively than Cedric and what we lose going forward you gain from having Redmond/Moi having more freedom.

 

It's a odd feeling because at HT I was pretty low and expecting a long tough season, but actually I've come away at the end feeling oddly positive. I just hope Hughes has learned from this and we don't play three at the back (certainly at least at home) again.

In Cedric's case, not much. Someone earlier had posted his awful assists stats for the last 3 seasons. And a grand total of 1 goal.

[saint1977]

Fair result yesterday, Burnley better for longer but faded after the tactical change by Hughes. Could have nicked it 1-0 with chances for Stephens and Ings, but would have been harsh on Dyche.

 

Pros from yesterday:

- Clean sheet

- McCarthy carrying on last season's fine form, Angus will have to be patient

- Vestergaard - miles better than any other CB, bar Yoshi. Hope the latter is back for Everton with Theo around.

- Ings and Mo bright cameos

- Romeu and Redmond from insipid to much brighter after the change in shape

 

Cons:

- Hoedt. Is rapidly securing a place in our worst ever XI and looking even worse than Callum Davenport and Andreas Jakobsson. At least they didn't cost £17m and one wasn't even our player. Is there something wrong with him, some injury that is undiagnosed so I can be more empathetic? Or is he one of the most unbalanced, uncoordinated and poorly-positioned players I've ever seen play live? No anticipation of the game. No wonder the Dutch don't qualify for major tournaments at present if that's the standard of their defenders.

- Bertrand: a couple of overlap opportunities where could have supported Redmond when the latter had committed defenders.

- Stephens at CB - but was better at RB, so we've found our back up there.

- Still firing blanks

- Austin: I know the formation wasn't working but might as well have played with 10 men. Needs to get fitter based on that (or as much as he can be. Good option off the bench though) or Ings/Gabi/Mo will be ahead of him, Gallagher if he gets the chance.

[Wes Tender]

it was great. He is going to get done for pace at some point, but he is clearly a level up on what we had previously.

 

That is why we need Yoshida alongside him. He doesn't get outpaced by many.

[DuncanRG]

The formation was a mistake in this game , with a packed Burnley midfield, but it was really encouraging to see Hughes make the switch in good time and have the players respond. It won't spell the end of three at the back but shows we may not have the quality to pull it off against all opposition.

 

Vestergaard was good but needs to work on his clearances. He did well to make them but quite often hoofed or headed it aimlessly away, allowing them to come back at us.

[Roo1976]

We’ve just got some ****ing idiot supporters who now have their new campaign, abandon 3 at the back (previously it was The Diamond). 4 at the back was a ****ing disaster last season, we’d have gone down had we kept it. Koeman preferred 4 at the back, but switched to 3 centre half’s occasionally. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Hughes doing the same (only in reverse). Of course our forum experts are now demanding 4-4-2 because we played better TODAY when deploying that, mainly because Ings played between the lines. Had Ings started in a 3-4-1-2 we may have played better, who knows.

 

In my opinion the issue with the system today was giving the ball away too much, getting pushed back into a back 5 and not having an out ball because Charlie hasn’t got the legs. Blaming the system is too easy, the players were poor, I think they’d have been poor in a 4-4-2 as well. It took Ings coming on & maybe Burnley tiring to fire us up.

 

Having been at Newcastle & West Ham I’m not convinced Cedric is ideal in a 4.

 

 

 

 

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So is that not what you wanted? us to play better of just awful from the off and try to play ourselves out of the relegation sh...it again ?