Fans Forum

[Charlie Wayman]

[/quote If you have something to say, put your hand up and wait your turn.

 

There were a lot of people round me who had their hands up all through the forum but never got to ask their questions.

 

Perhaps they wanted permission to leave the room to take a pee and were not grown up enough to just leave the room.

[Turkish]

Exactly, what decent employer would public crucify their employee, who is also a commercial asset. A player who may yet turn out to be a very good player....

 

I agree with this. Carillo is just a young lad who was signed for Saints. It's not his fault he was out of his depth last season and his employer is giving him a chance to improve elsewhere and they're absolutely not going to destroy his confidence further in public.

 

A young lad? He's 27, he'll be 28 when he comes back from his loan. He should be in his prime. I don't like writing players off but there was nothing in his history to suggest he was going to be a good signing and even less in his time here. I still struggle to believe a £20m player was so poor that he couldn't get in the squad ahead of 3 players who only managed 14 goals between them all season. you don't expect anyone to publicly criticise him, apart from anything else if they did do that they'd be criticising themselves for such an appalling signing.

[Mowgli]

In my view, Les Reed has made an error with the strategy that he’s implemented. The club have spent a lot of money on wages because they’ve decided to go for numbers over quality. Can anyone genuinely say we have a clear starting 11 that are really better than the subs? Ralph mentioned about numbers last night being a reason for the cost to the club. Personally, I think it’s an error to have 25 generally interchangeable players. I’d rather a starting 11 who are clearly starters and we spend the money on these guys with subs made up largely by youth players. Spending the wage budget on a large group of players causes us to have many we can’t shift. Bournemouth have players on much lower wages and then buy one or two fairly expensive players per year. They are on a par with us, if not better.

 

Long, Forster, Carillo, Boufal, Davis, Austin. These wages are too high for what we get in return. For example, I’d rather us spend our limited finances on two decent strikers rather than having 4 pretty average players. I’d give Sam G the chance to shine when we have injuries or suspensions.

 

That’s my view. Quality over numbers.

 

Bck to the 70s with you! There's not a club above Division 1 (probably not even that) that would survive under such a strategy

[saints-til-i-die]

Bck to the 70s with you! There's not a club above Division 1 (probably not even that) that would survive under such a strategy

 

I would say there are a lot of clubs who survive with a similar strategy of not bloating squads with average players on high salaries.

 

Bournemouth have a largely average squad but on much lower wages. The young players we’ve recently had to play out of necessity rather than choice have been to a suitable level to be stand ins. Stephens would never have got a chance if it wasn’t for the Les Reed balls up re Fobte and then the VVD injury. A lot of the time we are told young players aren’t good enough but they aren’t given a chance. Look at Spurs.

Give them a chance as back up players.

Can we honestly say Hoijberg etc have been better than what we already had? Sims would have contributed more than some of our signings if given more games. ( Boufal anyone?)

 

If it didn’t work so be it. We currently have highly paid players nowhere need the first team, young players blocked from the first team and we are no better than Bournemouth. Something hasn’t worked.

 

It’s my view. I’m allowed it. I don’t mind if you disagree now I’ve clarified my thinking.

Thanks

[LGTL]

I would say there are a lot of clubs who survive with a similar strategy of not bloating squads with average players on high salaries.

 

Bournemouth have a largely average squad but on much lower wages. The young players we’ve recently had to play out of necessity rather than choice have been to a suitable level to be stand ins. Stephens would never have got a chance if it wasn’t for the Les Reed balls up re Fobte and then the VVD injury. A lot of the time we are told young players aren’t good enough but they aren’t given a chance. Look at Spurs.

Give them a chance as back up players.

Can we honestly say Hoijberg etc have been better than what we already had? Sims would have contributed more than some of our signings if given more games. ( Boufal anyone?)

 

If it didn’t work so be it. We currently have highly paid players nowhere need the first team, young players blocked from the first team and we are no better than Bournemouth. Something hasn’t worked.

 

It’s my view. I’m allowed it. I don’t mind if you disagree now I’ve clarified my thinking.

Thanks

 

I really wouldn't believe the Bournemouth squad is on lower wages!

[Matthew Le God]

I really wouldn't believe the Bournemouth squad is on lower wages!

 

Not sure why you would think that. In the last publically available comparison of wages in accounts, there was a huge gulf in wages between the two clubs and Premier League rules restrict the increase a team can add to its wages each year so they can't catch up easily even if they wanted.

[verlaine1979]

The reference to Pelle was a good example by Reed.

How many games did it take him to score for us? A good ten games i reckon and we weren t exactly in free fall at the time.

 

What i don t understand is why we shipped him out on loan if we still see a future for him?

 

Huh? Pelle scored 3 in his first four league games for us (6 in his first . I thought he looked rubbish that pre-season, but he was very effective once the league started.

[RedArmy]

Name one first team player who has not represented his country at some level then.

Haha. Playing for a under x year team a long time ago doesn't make you an international.

How many of our first team squad right now are first team full internationals? Not many at all, which is a large part of why we are so far away from the top 6 right now.

Rewind two years and a half years and we had a squad full of them.

[saints-til-i-die]

Not sure why you would think that. In the last publically available comparison of wages in accounts, there was a huge gulf in wages between the two clubs and Premier League rules restrict the increase a team can add to its wages each year so they can't catch up easily even if they wanted.

 

Some people don’t want facts to get in the way of opinions!

[saint77]

I really wouldn't believe the Bournemouth squad is on lower wages!

 

Apart from Defoe not one player is on more than 45k basic however they pay big bonuses if certain criteria is met which last season only 2 players were paid a bonus

[Heisenberg]

The gap between our wage bill and AFCBs is massive. But is the quality?

[Turkish]

Any update on when we can expect the five pledges?

[sotonjoe]

Any update on when we can expect the five pledges?

 

They are on ralf’s desk, just waiting to be signed off. Should be any time now.

 

 

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[Red]

Any update on when we can expect the five pledges?

 

Yes:

 

1. Gao pledges never to speak about why he invested in SFC - or for that matter anything to do with Saints ever!

2. Gao pledges to never invest any more of his personal money in SFC (assuming he invested any in the first place)

3. Kate pledges to carry on her father's wishes and remain our savior and only sell her remaining stake to move us even further on to the next step (not clear if this is up or down, and just in case has her fingers and toes double crossed - double crossed, now that might be a fitting tribute?)

4. Ralph pledges to continue as a useless windbag and fall guy for Gao

5. Gao and Board pledge to mug off/rip off/insult/lie to and generally abuse the fan base - cos it's club and we can do we like in'it bro

 

oh BTW what happened to Gao's daughter - you know Kate's BFF??

[Crab Lungs]

It was, Hughes aside, just a load of waffle and were no close to explanations on anything. Anything at all.

[Faz]

It was, Hughes aside, just a load of waffle and were no close to explanations on anything. Anything at all.

 

What were you expecting really? And was it any different to any other club doing these things. The most intersting bit was always going to be Highes/Ings, and if that side of things is going well then no-one gets too worked up about the busiess side - unless, of course, they subscribe to an internet forum where the very appearance of the geat prophet, Lesllie Reed, in a new signing video is disected for meaning and nuance FFS.

[SaintMB]

Thought it was worthwhile, some tricky questions got asked and answered.

[Crab Lungs]

What were you expecting really? And was it any different to any other club doing these things. The most intersting bit was always going to be Highes/Ings, and if that side of things is going well then no-one gets too worked up about the busiess side - unless, of course, they subscribe to an internet forum where the very appearance of the geat prophet, Lesllie Reed, in a new signing video is disected for meaning and nuance FFS.

 

There are several huge elephants in the room and some of them were approached but the answers given were quite frankly, watery and inconclusive.

 

The pellegrino answer was pathetic, made out to be some sort of well planned and executed move.

 

Carillo, what sort of response was that? I don’t expect them to apologise but I do expect some sort of admission that they made a mistake.

 

We went round the houses with the Gao answer... nothing clearly stated ‘this is what he wants to do’ ‘this is his plan’ etc. All I ever hear about is raising our profile in China, ergo - his profile.

 

No admission that they’d learned anything from last year.

 

As predicted, all the dinnies lap it up because there was a free bar etc.

 

#wesapon

[Ultimatt]

Bck to the 70s with you! There's not a club above Division 1 (probably not even that) that would survive under such a strategy

 

Leicester won their title with that strategy. They must've had the same starting XI and subs nearly every match. Yes there's risk if you have some injuries but it gives the academy a chance to shine.

[Golden Balls]

One thing I’d say is people are moaning that we didn’t get answers on ambition. Les gave a pretty clear one. To get back into Europe.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Super_Uwe]

At least we got a fans' forum, it's been a long while.

 

I did like Les Reed's comment about not getting transfers 100% right or 100% wrong. Classic straight bat forward defensive stroke from Les, good effort!

[suewhistle]

As predicted, all the dinnies lap it up because there was a free bar etc.

 

There must be something wrong with your assessment of social situations if you thought that meeting was lapping up their explanations.

 

Still, they must have known beforehand that the fans were not happy, and the meeting confirmed it.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Adam Blackmore missed a trick by not asking Hughes for his opinion on Carrillo after Les had finished saying how good Carrillo is.

 

General problem with these forums...it’s in the nature of most of the attendees to focus on making their own voice heard rather than listening carefully to the answers and then challenging those issues. Chimps.

[St Louis]

Carillo is still our player (asset) so they (Reed or Hughes) were never going to say he is cr*p and was a disastrous signing! They will big him up where possible, and hope he is a success in Spain, so that we can either re-integrate him with more confidence (unlikely) or sell him on somewhere near to the fee we paid.

[Charlie Wayman]

The meeting only happened because Chairman Gao told them to get off their fat arses and get fans more involved as it would be good for his image, otherwise they would have remained smugly aloof wrapped in their cocoon of make believe and alternative truths.

 

I'll bet they had to be threatened to have their teeth pulled without an anaesthetic before agreeing to a forum and even then the barstewards charged two quid a head for the privilege of sitting in the same room as them.

[Give it to Ron]

The meeting only happened because Chairman Gao told them to get off their fat arses and get fans more involved as it would be good for his image, otherwise they would have remained smugly aloof wrapped in their cocoon of make believe and alternative truths.

 

I'll bet they had to be threatened to have their teeth pulled without an anaesthetic before agreeing to a forum and even then the barstewards charged two quid a head for the privilege of sitting in the same room as them.

 

The £2 went to the Saints Foundation who do a fantastic job in the community you utter cretin

[Charlie Wayman]

The £2 went to the Saints Foundation who do a fantastic job in the community you utter cretin

 

You really are a naive and gullible old fool.

[Give it to Ron]

You really are a naive and gullible old fool.

 

Do you have evidence it didn't then? Come on that's a big slur....prove it didn't go there .

[Batman]

Adam Leitch didn’t hold back on what he thought of the fans forum regarding Ralph and Co.

 

Have to agree with him to be fair.

[Heisenberg]

Adam Leitch didn’t hold back on what he thought of the fans forum regarding Ralph and Co.

 

Have to agree with him to be fair.

 

Pressume he felt same as me? That both seemed lost and out of touch with fans?

[Matthew Le God]

Pressume he felt same as me? That both seemed lost and out of touch with fans?

 

Les acquired a nervous stutter which he hasn't had before. He looked and sounded petrified of how his answer would be received.

 

[hypochondriac]

Adam Leitch didn’t hold back on what he thought of the fans forum regarding Ralph and Co.

 

Have to agree with him to be fair.

Where is his reaction?

[Batman]

Where is his reaction?

 

on one of the the saints podcasts that are about. The one with Steve Grant as a participant

[hypochondriac]

on one of the the saints podcasts that are about. The one with Steve Grant as a participant

Found it cheers. Very interesting

[shurlock]

Ralph melted

 

Leitch up his own arse

 

#9.2

Edited 24 August, 2018 by shurlock

[Cabbage_Face]

link us up,

[shurlock]

link us up,

 

 

30 minute mark.

[Cabbage_Face]

 

30 minute mark.

 

Pal, thanks m8

[Daft Kerplunk]

Leitch is spot on, I think Ralph and Les have probably surrounded themselves with yes people so they seem surprised/incredulous at any criticism and also Ralph has probably been more involved in the selling of the club than he let’s on and it’s a truly sh!te deal for the football club, which he now knows.

[Cabbage_Face]

I’ve had intel that these maybe scrapped, or Ralph won’t be at one again. [emoji1303]

 

 

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[SuperSAINT]

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2020-12-04/southampton-fc-club-to-host-online-fans-forum

[Shroppie]

For anyone interested, a quick(ish) summary. I found it very good: no silly questions and fairly open, honest answers.

Ralph agreed that teams are learning how we play and both copying it and trying to counter it. This means we have to do it better. Can’t stand still: must keep improving. Things have to evolve. Ralph tries things that don’t always work, but they need trying.

We are playing “cool” football that he hopes fans in the stadium will get behind. Sometimes he’s scared it’s too “cool” - risky, but no risk, no reward. Our style looks intense and energetic but we work in short bursts at the right time and try to make the opposition work harder. Players are working fantastically hard and deserve support. There is great team spirit and togetherness. When Ralph first came, after training players talked about cars (for example). Now they’re discussing tactics. All on board.

He suggested we’ve got more savvy. Described players as lovely people, but horrible on the pitch to play against.

On ownership, Semmens said the current owners are very committed and supportive (especially when we’re doing well) but don’t interfere. There could be future investment if the opportunity arises in addition to current owners, but 99% of press reports are false. The model must be flexible.

We have lost £20m through Covid. Don’t expect big name signings. We still need the right players to fit Ralph’s system and players who can improve - look at Vest, KWP, Bednarek, JWP, Ings and others coming through. The whole team has a changed, hungry mentality. No room for journeymen. After the big six we attract players because of our infrastructure and potential. We are well-run. Having 2000 fans back doesn’t make financial sense so it’s really hoped they’ll get behind the team.

Semmens feels we are back on track after the club plan had gone wrong.

Asked about timing of subs, Ralph said timings may be late as the worst thing is to have an injury or player tiring when there are no subs left. Danny didn’t start Monday as he knows he was only good for 60 mins, so one sub would have had to be used to replace him. Keeping him on the bench gave the opportunity of using him or not. BTW, JWP is first designated penalty taker but gave Monday’s to Danny as, having messed up once giving away a pen, JWP didn’t want to risk doubling up by missing.

On contracts, what Crook wrote isn’t true. Negotiations are ongoing and the overall cost of all the contracts is a factor, rather than just settling each one separately. If we sell players, or bring through Academy players, there’s more flexibility with the top earners. The club want Danny to stay, think he does too and are hopeful it will work out, but all discussions are personal. Interesting that nothing said about Bertrand. The club’s stance is that any player who doesn’t want to be at Saints can leave. Players must want to be here and to buy totally into Ralph’s plans. That’s why Theo came back, despite not fitting our model and him having better offers. Apparently he really wanted to come back, is utterly committed and loves it.

Sorry, that wasn’t brief!

[Turkish]

On 04/12/2020 at 14:36, SuperSAINT said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2020-12-04/southampton-fc-club-to-host-online-fans-forum

Are all the geeks still trying to slot that Lucy bird that’s on saints voice? 

Edited 10 December, 2020 by Turkish

[SuperSAINT]

43 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

For anyone interested, a quick(ish) summary. I found it very good: no silly questions and fairly open, honest answers.

Ralph agreed that teams are learning how we play and both copying it and trying to counter it. This means we have to do it better. Can’t stand still: must keep improving. Things have to evolve. Ralph tries things that don’t always work, but they need trying.

We are playing “cool” football that he hopes fans in the stadium will get behind. Sometimes he’s scared it’s too “cool” - risky, but no risk, no reward. Our style looks intense and energetic but we work in short bursts at the right time and try to make the opposition work harder. Players are working fantastically hard and deserve support. There is great team spirit and togetherness. When Ralph first came, after training players talked about cars (for example). Now they’re discussing tactics. All on board.

He suggested we’ve got more savvy. Described players as lovely people, but horrible on the pitch to play against.

On ownership, Semmens said the current owners are very committed and supportive (especially when we’re doing well) but don’t interfere. There could be future investment if the opportunity arises in addition to current owners, but 99% of press reports are false. The model must be flexible.

We have lost £20m through Covid. Don’t expect big name signings. We still need the right players to fit Ralph’s system and players who can improve - look at Vest, KWP, Bednarek, JWP, Ings and others coming through. The whole team has a changed, hungry mentality. No room for journeymen. After the big six we attract players because of our infrastructure and potential. We are well-run. Having 2000 fans back doesn’t make financial sense so it’s really hoped they’ll get behind the team.

Semmens feels we are back on track after the club plan had gone wrong.

Asked about timing of subs, Ralph said timings may be late as the worst thing is to have an injury or player tiring when there are no subs left. Danny didn’t start Monday as he knows he was only good for 60 mins, so one sub would have had to be used to replace him. Keeping him on the bench gave the opportunity of using him or not. BTW, JWP is first designated penalty taker but gave Monday’s to Danny as, having messed up once giving away a pen, JWP didn’t want to risk doubling up by missing.

On contracts, what Crook wrote isn’t true. Negotiations are ongoing and the overall cost of all the contracts is a factor, rather than just settling each one separately. If we sell players, or bring through Academy players, there’s more flexibility with the top earners. The club want Danny to stay, think he does too and are hopeful it will work out, but all discussions are personal. Interesting that nothing said about Bertrand. The club’s stance is that any player who doesn’t want to be at Saints can leave. Players must want to be here and to buy totally into Ralph’s plans. That’s why Theo came back, despite not fitting our model and him having better offers. Apparently he really wanted to come back, is utterly committed and loves it.

Sorry, that wasn’t brief!

Great write-up.  Cheers for posting it.

[Shroppie]

23 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Great write-up.  Cheers for posting it.

My pleasure. It was a good forum. And everyone was heaping praise on the management of the club, especially Ralph 

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, Shroppie said:

For anyone interested, a quick(ish) summary. I found it very good: no silly questions and fairly open, honest answers.

Ralph agreed that teams are learning how we play and both copying it and trying to counter it. This means we have to do it better. Can’t stand still: must keep improving. Things have to evolve. Ralph tries things that don’t always work, but they need trying.

We are playing “cool” football that he hopes fans in the stadium will get behind. Sometimes he’s scared it’s too “cool” - risky, but no risk, no reward. Our style looks intense and energetic but we work in short bursts at the right time and try to make the opposition work harder. Players are working fantastically hard and deserve support. There is great team spirit and togetherness. When Ralph first came, after training players talked about cars (for example). Now they’re discussing tactics. All on board.

He suggested we’ve got more savvy. Described players as lovely people, but horrible on the pitch to play against.

On ownership, Semmens said the current owners are very committed and supportive (especially when we’re doing well) but don’t interfere. There could be future investment if the opportunity arises in addition to current owners, but 99% of press reports are false. The model must be flexible.

We have lost £20m through Covid. Don’t expect big name signings. We still need the right players to fit Ralph’s system and players who can improve - look at Vest, KWP, Bednarek, JWP, Ings and others coming through. The whole team has a changed, hungry mentality. No room for journeymen. After the big six we attract players because of our infrastructure and potential. We are well-run. Having 2000 fans back doesn’t make financial sense so it’s really hoped they’ll get behind the team.

Semmens feels we are back on track after the club plan had gone wrong.

Asked about timing of subs, Ralph said timings may be late as the worst thing is to have an injury or player tiring when there are no subs left. Danny didn’t start Monday as he knows he was only good for 60 mins, so one sub would have had to be used to replace him. Keeping him on the bench gave the opportunity of using him or not. BTW, JWP is first designated penalty taker but gave Monday’s to Danny as, having messed up once giving away a pen, JWP didn’t want to risk doubling up by missing.

On contracts, what Crook wrote isn’t true. Negotiations are ongoing and the overall cost of all the contracts is a factor, rather than just settling each one separately. If we sell players, or bring through Academy players, there’s more flexibility with the top earners. The club want Danny to stay, think he does too and are hopeful it will work out, but all discussions are personal. Interesting that nothing said about Bertrand. The club’s stance is that any player who doesn’t want to be at Saints can leave. Players must want to be here and to buy totally into Ralph’s plans. That’s why Theo came back, despite not fitting our model and him having better offers. Apparently he really wanted to come back, is utterly committed and loves it.

Sorry, that wasn’t brief!

Don t agree on 2 things:

- Subs : does he prefer tired players For 5-10 mins or to concede? Because not subbing earlier is costing us goals and points. We could even be higher in the table

 

- Ward Prowse not wanting to take the penalty is a weak mentality.

if he had a winning mentality, he would want to make amends for his earlier mistake.

[Shroppie]

22 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Don t agree on 2 things:

- Subs : does he prefer tired players For 5-10 mins or to concede? Because not subbing earlier is costing us goals and points. We could even be higher in the table

 

- Ward Prowse not wanting to take the penalty is a weak mentality.

if he had a winning mentality, he would want to make amends for his earlier mistake.

Fair points but I'm just reporting Ralph's comments. And JWP was captain. His decision. Danny scored. We won.

[MarkSFC]

24 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Don t agree on 2 things:

- Subs : does he prefer tired players For 5-10 mins or to concede? Because not subbing earlier is costing us goals and points. We could even be higher in the table

 

- Ward Prowse not wanting to take the penalty is a weak mentality.

if he had a winning mentality, he would want to make amends for his earlier mistake.

Yeah biggest surprise for me. I just hope it was a situational weakness rather than his goto trait, it was a tough game. Its likely that JWP is perhaps more cautious / more negative in his thinking because if you think about how long he has been there and what he has had to endure it would take an extremely tough mindset to never think negatively in any situation. Just look at how the majority of our fans think in various situations we see the team in at any given time!!

[Shroppie]

12 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

Yeah biggest surprise for me. I just hope it was a situational weakness rather than his goto trait, it was a tough game. Its likely that JWP is perhaps more cautious / more negative in his thinking because if you think about how long he has been there and what he has had to endure it would take an extremely tough mindset to never think negatively in any situation. Just look at how the majority of our fans think in various situations we see the team in at any given time!!

Or maybe his accidental but silly handball was still annoying him a d he just thought Danny was calmer? In which case, good call.

[MarkSFC]

Just now, Shroppie said:

Or maybe his accidental but silly handball was still annoying him a d he just thought Danny was calmer? In which case, good call.

same thing ultimately in terms of his mindset being situational. But yeah good decision to give it to Danny. Good Leadership.