Saints vs Borussia Mönchengladbach - Match Thread

[Shroppie]

When Yoshida came on he was immediately shouting at the others, pushing people forward, holding the line and generally giving some much needed leadership which was completely absent until then.

 

Yoshi should be our captain.

 

Back 4 with him and Vestergaard.

 

Romeu and Lemina in front.

 

Then Armstrong, Elyounoussi and Gabbi behind Austin or Long, depending on the opposition.

 

Can't believe we've signed a winger as our main new attacker if we're going to play 352.

 

Yesterday was complete crap.

Pretty well agree with that, but would play Gabbiadini up front and replace him with JWP/Redmond.

 

And yes, Maya for captain.

 

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[st.bangkok]

As I said a few weeks back, Hughes is not the answer and will not last the season. We will be in a relegation battle for sure. We will have to hope for three teams worse than us again, but this season it is hard to see who those three might be. A lot of people say Cardiff, but they will be a well drilled and hard to beat side as eve with Warnock teams. Huddersfield will have more experience about them this time around. Brighton? Bournemouth? I would say we are likely one of the three worst teams in the PL this season.

[Batman]

As I said a few weeks back, Hughes is not the answer and will not last the season. We will be in a relegation battle for sure. We will have to hope for three teams worse than us again, but this season it is hard to see who those three might be. A lot of people say Cardiff, but they will be a well drilled and hard to beat side as eve with Warnock teams. Huddersfield will have more experience about them this time around. Brighton? Bournemouth? I would say we are likely one of the three worst teams in the PL this season.

 

if we are as bad defensively and hughes sticks with 3 at the back, he wont last long at all.

I would like to believe he is experienced/canny enough to drop it soon enough it if becomes clear that this formation is destroying us.

 

Time will tell.

[doddisalegend]

My nipper went yesterday and took my ticket for a mate (lucky escape for me).

 

Speaking to him about the game, this morning, he reckons our biggest issue was we pushed our wingbacks way up the pitch and left the there. He said BM just exploited the space between the to high wingbacks and the centre backs all game.

 

Hopefully Hughes and his team spotted this and are working hard to sort it out.

[verlaine1979]

BM were just so much better than us. Quick, technical one-touch stuff, great movement, great energy. In contrast we looked absolutely lumpen with no idea of how to move the ball. Five at the back with two up front isn't making us any more defensively solid or creating any more chances - ditch it and go back to a variation of the formation used by pretty much everyone that doesn't have Hazard or De Bruyne in the team.

 

And as an aside, is it just me, or does Elyounoussi really lack pace?

[striker]

My nipper went yesterday and took my ticket for a mate (lucky escape for me).

 

Speaking to him about the game, this morning, he reckons our biggest issue was we pushed our wingbacks way up the pitch and left the there. He said BM just exploited the space between the to high wingbacks and the centre backs all game.

 

Hopefully Hughes and his team spotted this and are working hard to sort it out.

 

Based on Hughes comments and Bertrands actions I'm pretty sure they knew this was happening. Bertrand kept yelling to the sideline. Hughes said he wanted to stick with it to see if they could figure it out (I'm paraphrasing his words in one post match interview) since it was preseason, and if it was a real match he would have switched much much earlier. My take is they wanted to see if they could get away with being more aggressive with the wingers. It was a preseason test, and now they know they can't.

[OttawaSaint]

Based on Hughes comments and Bertrands actions I'm pretty sure they knew this was happening. Bertrand kept yelling to the sideline. Hughes said he wanted to stick with it to see if they could figure it out (I'm paraphrasing his words in one post match interview) since it was preseason, and if it was a real match he would have switched much much earlier. My take is they wanted to see if they could get away with being more aggressive with the wingers. It was a preseason test, and now they know they can't.

 

Trouble is that we haven’t practiced in a full match with a flat 4. Hope we hit the ground running on Sunday.

[Batman]

Based on Hughes comments and Bertrands actions I'm pretty sure they knew this was happening. Bertrand kept yelling to the sideline. Hughes said he wanted to stick with it to see if they could figure it out (I'm paraphrasing his words in one post match interview) since it was preseason, and if it was a real match he would have switched much much earlier. My take is they wanted to see if they could get away with being more aggressive with the wingers. It was a preseason test, and now they know they can't.

 

I hope that is right. Hughes surely is not daft enough to persist with a duff set up for two seasons running?

[St_Tel49]

Based on Hughes comments and Bertrands actions I'm pretty sure they knew this was happening. Bertrand kept yelling to the sideline. Hughes said he wanted to stick with it to see if they could figure it out (I'm paraphrasing his words in one post match interview) since it was preseason, and if it was a real match he would have switched much much earlier. My take is they wanted to see if they could get away with being more aggressive with the wingers. It was a preseason test, and now they know they can't.

 

They will hopefully have learned a lot from that match (surely the whole point of pre-season matches) - if they don'y we're doomed.

[doddisalegend]

Trouble is that we haven’t practiced in a full match with a flat 4. Hope we hit the ground running on Sunday.

 

 

I took it as playing our wingbacks high up the pitch was the experiment they won't try again not playing five at the back.

[Give it to Ron]

BM were just so much better than us. Quick, technical one-touch stuff, great movement, great energy. In contrast we looked absolutely lumpen with no idea of how to move the ball. Five at the back with two up front isn't making us any more defensively solid or creating any more chances - ditch it and go back to a variation of the formation used by pretty much everyone that doesn't have Hazard or De Bruyne in the team.

 

And as an aside, is it just me, or does Elyounoussi really lack pace?

Just you....did you miss that mazy run...

 

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[verlaine1979]

Just you....did you miss that mazy run...

 

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No, I can see he has decent control, but he didn't outpace anyone during that mazy run and I haven't seen him burst past anyone in any of his pre-season cameos so far.

[John Boy Saint]

I hope that is right. Hughes surely is not daft enough to persist with a duff set up for two seasons running?

Me too

Especially as Bertrand did seem to like playing in the shade of the Kingsland “reading the paper” first half, and there were some comments made from the stand towards him, which apparently he responded to. Be interesting to hear what was said.

Flip side Targett had the ball, and was closed down with, more often or not, no out option infront of him just backwards or sideways. First half especially, balls to Austin’s feet saw him dispossessed, and the ball just came straight back at us. In a zig zag - out to our left behind Bertrand then zipped across the back of our midfield to their number 7 who was running in at pace from our right onto the ball. You have to hope that it was an experiment as that BM movement to slice us open saw their number 7 get his reward with their 3rd.

 

As an aside, did anyone else see Bournemouth’s approach to their last pre season matches? They played Friday night then Saturday afternoon, if I heard Eddie Howe post match on Solent correctly, they pretty much had one set of players out 1st half Friday night, second half swapped them up or tinkered, then played Friday nights first half team with tweaks Saturday afternoon first half and swapped them up again second half, he said he wanted to make sure everyone got a decent bit of game time rather than the 60/30 70/20 that normal pre season fixtures provides.

 

Even further aside, from what I saw of the Charity Shield yesterday, Man City look like they will just carry on from where they left off in May, by comparison Chelsea looked a bit of a shambles.

[RobM]

Me too

Especially as Bertrand did seem to like playing in the shade of the Kingsland “reading the paper” first half, and there were some comments made from the stand towards him, which apparently he responded to. Be interesting to hear what was said.

Flip side Targett had the ball, and was closed down with, more often or not, no out option infront of him just backwards or sideways. First half especially, balls to Austin’s feet saw him dispossessed, and the ball just came straight back at us. In a zig zag - out to our left behind Bertrand then zipped across the back of our midfield to their number 7 who was running in at pace from our right onto the ball. You have to hope that it was an experiment as that BM movement to slice us open saw their number 7 get his reward with their 3rd.

 

 

This bit is the killer for me. In the first half especially, we had nobody for Bertrand or Targett to overlap with or play off of. Targett especially would get forward OK, realise he had no options as everyone else was too central, so would be forced to go backwards to find a pass. Armstrong would occasionally find himself out wide, but not naturally and often not at the same speed, which gave BM time to surround us.

 

In the second half, when Elyounoussi came on, he provided an option and stopped the back-tracking a bit, as he was more naturally out wide and consistently further forward. We need somebody on the other side to do the same.

 

I also believe Austin and Gabbi cannot play together, they're too similar and need to be left alone up-front for the one minute of magic they can produce each game. We can't have two players doing that, though.

[mrfahaji]

Agree with much of this. Lamina, despite obvious talent, is psychologically not fit for Premier League football. He simply can’t be arsed to do the boring but basics needed defensively at this level. You can do as many fancy moves as you like, it’s not where games are won or lost.

 

I'm not saying your opinion won't end up proving correct in the long run, but hasn't Lemina missed a lot (all?) of the pre-season games, either due to illness, parenthood or flights to Manchester?

 

On one hand we have people lamenting the fact he hasn't had much time to get fit, and on the other hand when he does play and perhaps unsurprisingly isn't up to speed, people write him off as not being good enough!

[mrfahaji]

Watching the highlights of the second goal, MGB have half the pitch to themselves as soon as the throw is taken. Hojbjerg is almost immediately taken out the game, Lemina doesn't bust a gut to get back, and Armstrong is still hanging around with the strikers. Then, despite having 3 central defenders, they all back off and let Zakaria carry the ball the entire way without a single challenge. We can't have situations where the other team are in our half (not a counter attack) and we only have 2 midfielders, we'll be torn to shreds every game.

 

How advanced does Armstrong tend to play? Perhaps this goal was a one off, but am slightly concerned that he plays more as a 'number 10', and don't think we can afford that if we're already playing 2 up front.

[hypochondriac]

As I said a few weeks back, Hughes is not the answer and will not last the season. We will be in a relegation battle for sure. We will have to hope for three teams worse than us again, but this season it is hard to see who those three might be. A lot of people say Cardiff, but they will be a well drilled and hard to beat side as eve with Warnock teams. Huddersfield will have more experience about them this time around. Brighton? Bournemouth? I would say we are likely one of the three worst teams in the PL this season.

 

I reckon he could make the season even if we get relegated. I can't imagine they'd want to admit they made a mistake three seasons in a row.

[RobM]

Shall we let him fail before we consider him a failure? I was not in any way supportive before he was appointed, but he kept us up and I enjoyed the football at the end of the season WAY more than I did before he started, so he deserves a chance.

 

We shouldn't expect more than a high bottom-half finish (12th is my prediction), but given the squad and the poor way Ross and Les are (not) managing transfers, there's only so much Hughes can do.

[Saint86]

Shall we let him fail before we consider him a failure? I was not in any way supportive before he was appointed, but he kept us up and I enjoyed the football at the end of the season WAY more than I did before he started, so he deserves a chance.

 

We shouldn't expect more than a high bottom-half finish (12th is my prediction), but given the squad and the poor way Ross and Les are (not) managing transfers, there's only so much Hughes can do.

 

Agreed, the melts are out in force this summer. I would far rather have Hughes than Puel or Mopey. We got to a league cup final under Puel and I still binned of my season ticket because I couldn't stomach another season of his football.

[the saint in winchester]

Re Hughes :

I reckon he could make the season even if we get relegated. I can't imagine they'd want to admit they made a mistake three seasons in a row.

 

Yeah, this. He has signed a 3 year deal and we can't afford to pay him off early, after doing that for Puel and Pelegrino. We called for an English manager with an English style of play. We have that now.

[Hairlesshero]

Pretty well agree with that, but would play Gabbiadini up front and replace him with JWP/Redmond.

 

And yes, Maya for captain.

 

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JWP, Redmond or SIMS

[benjii]

Re Hughes :

 

 

Yeah, this. He has signed a 3 year deal and we can't afford to pay him off early, after doing that for Puel and Pelegrino. We called for an English manager with an English style of play. We have that now.

 

He's Welsh.

[mrfahaji]

He's Welsh.

 

[Secret Site Agent]

For it to be a mess it needs to be compared to previous success... something Reed was partly responsible for. So if you blame him now... why refuse to praise him for previous good work?

 

Because it is so easy to criticise, so difficult to create.

We will have a tough season, but this doesn't just link to the loss of class, it's also to having a team rather than 11 individual players who understand the plan. This is waht Hughes is paid to do, and to get them to play the best formation to fit their strengths, and to cover our weaknesses.

[Secret Site Agent]

Re Hughes :

 

 

Yeah, this. He has signed a 3 year deal and we can't afford to pay him off early, after doing that for Puel and Pelegrino. We called for an English manager with an English style of play. We have that now.

 

British you mean, Boyo

[Nordic Saint]

Why did we sign Vestandpants when we could have signed Gibson for similar, if not less money?

 

Possibly because there was no eompetition for him so he was easier to sign. We don't seem to sign players other clubs are trying to buy as well. Vestergaard, like Carrillo, was easy to sign because nobody else wanted him and his club was happy to sell him. Borussia Mönchengldcah had one of the worst defences in the Bundesliga last season. As we saw when they played us, they seem to have solved that problem now because, as well as Ginter, Jantschke, they now have the youngsters Beyer and Mayer coming through.

 

If we weren't prepared to compete for Gibson, we should have gone for the player who is replacing him at Boro, Dael Fry. He is the most promising young central defender in the country.