Derby v Saints (Friendly) - Match Thread

[ALWAYS_SFC]

This thread shows how much fun match threads will be this season

[Cabbage_Face]

Hughes speaks sense, shame some people on here can’t see it. Derby’s season starts a week before ours, most of our better players are still on holiday, we’ve just got back from China, yes our defence was shocking, but Hoedt and Stephens won’t start, I can see it being New Chap, Berdanek/Stephens and Yoshi/Hoedt, we are bad at defending high balls hence why we’ve signed a giant. Cedric and Bertrand are decent wing backs. I would be more worried a week before the season and this happened. [emoji1303]

 

 

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[Baird of the land]

Is hesketh injured again or just on his way out?

 

Our lineup looked a mess generally. I’ll judge team on later friendlies.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Bednarek is a right footer. Hoedt would be the natural choice there.

 

True, although I think Vestergaard is left footed? Guess we’d want him in the middle of the 3 though.

[baggytrousers]

Did you see City’s starting lineup?

 

Did you see the date ?

 

Start of the season is still 3 weeks away.

 

No Premier League team gives a monkey's about results at this stage. It's all about getting minutes in players' legs for the whole squad.

[shurlock]

Did you see the date ?

 

Start of the season is still 3 weeks away.

 

No Premier League team gives a monkey's about results at this stage. It's all about getting minutes in players' legs for the whole squad.

 

 

Surprised you're still showing your face here after embarrassing yourself last season pal

 

It wasn't me that mentioned city's result or put any emphasis on it. I mentioned the squad precisely to underline its irrelevance

 

As I've said before, preseason is meaningless in isolation and is certainly no barometer by which to judge our new signings; but in the context of a side that survived by the skin of its teeth, it's not irrelevant that the same players are making the same glaring errors. That's all.

[trousers]

[ChiefScummer]

 

I know it's only pre season but that was some shocking defending.

[striker]

After re-watching things it looks like Vestergaard was actually there in position, but just missed the ball. This is much better than Stephens and Hoedt. Outside of that one major error, I thought the big guy did well. He's definitely smooth on the ball. He'd may be good in the center of a 3 back setup.

[egg]

After re-watching things it looks like Vestergaard was actually there in position, but just missed the ball. This is much better than Stephens and Hoedt. Outside of that one major error, I thought the big guy did well. He's definitely smooth on the ball. He'd may be good in the center of a 3 back setup.

 

He would be if we had CB's with pace either side. Yoshida could play one side but the left side looks weak. Those 2 in a 4 would be my pick with Romeu sitting just in front.

[hackedoff]

Further to my comments regarding yesterday's game,I would hate to be grouped in with the moaners and wrist slitters,so to put the record straight.

I am absolutely delighted about yesterday's performance and result. It was great to see that last season's deficiencies have been addressed as in the defence is much tighter,the midfield is more combatant and the attack is creating and putting away most of their chances. Thank God we got rid of that awful manager,who was the cause of all our problems,and I look forward to success in the coming season.

[John B]

I don't understand why lots are worried about the defence when it appears that the attack or the lack of attack puts so much stress on the defence from a you tube clip I saw we did not seem to have any really clear cut chances.

 

We do seem to have not improved the squad significantly since the start of last season and in that time lost our best defender and best attacker as well as Boufal.

 

Currently not really excited with the prospect of the coming season but spending another £50m plus on two players might help.

 

 

Look what you get theses days for £20m or so Carillo

[SFC Forever]

I can go with that and once they are settled in I reckon could be a useful back line.

[Shropshire Saint]

Hughes said in the after game interview that some will be discarded and some will be persevered with. Interesting!

[SFC Forever]

I also feel that Yoshi, Vest and Bedna could be our best lineup for back 3/5

[Badger]

Hughes said in the after game interview that some will be discarded and some will be persevered with. Interesting!

 

I thought he was talking of discarding some of the ideas that they experimented with rather than players. Would prefer it was some of the players but not the way I interpreted it.

 

[scotty]

Hughes said in the after game interview that some will be discarded and some will be persevered with. Interesting!

 

He meant ideas, not players.

[Dark Munster]

I know it's only pre season but that was some shocking defending.

The third goal in particular. I mean, WTF?

[CylonKing]

Sh*tarse boring game. We looked well off the pace and didn't cause Derby any issues at all. Not going to take too much out of the result but did notice a few things. Why do we take so long with our throw ins? No pace or urgency at all and lets the opposition get into position as Betrand or Stephens amble over to take a throw in, where we usually lose the ball. The same with goal kicks, we ended up making a right hash of them as we tried to retain possession. We really need to step up in the next matches to be ready for the new season, we looked well off the pace.

[John B]

The third goal in particular. I mean, WTF?

 

It was the end of the game it was a friendly it was a patched up defence it was hot not sure players knew who they were marking

 

I would expect in a PL game there would be commitment.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Why do we take so long with our throw ins? No pace or urgency at all and lets the opposition get into position as Betrand or Stephens amble over to take a throw in, where we usually lose the ball.

 

Was the same all of last season! So frustrating!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Should not take anything from the result as such, however the performance itself should be a good indicator of the quality within the squad to do the basics like score goals, high press, pass accurately, positioning and communication in defence.

 

There’s a hell of a lot of work left to do before we are near the levels required to aspire to even mid-table...on this showing therefore it’s not surprising some are feeling nervous already.

[suewhistle]

There’s a hell of a lot of work left to do before we are near the levels required to aspire to even mid-table...on this showing therefore it’s not surprising some are feeling nervous already.

 

True, but the natural state of the football fan is anticipation of the new season tempered by black-humoured cynicism. How many of you are are going to meet up with your footie friends in the pub before the first game, looking forward immensely but saying something like "oh gawd, here we go again"?

 

It's a useful reminder to the team before they disappear on their French training camp as to how much needs to be done. I'm pretty certain Hughes won't be as obtuse as Pellegrino. Derby were ahead of us in the physical and teamwork side, and I'd never expect Lemina to bust a gut if he's not at 100%, but certain aspects such as the defending for the last goal were worrying. At pretty well any level of the game leaving that much space between the two central defenders would be subject to heavy criticism.

[VectisSaint]

It's a bit more complicated than that pal.

 

Pellegrino set us up to be defensive and difficult to break down -e.g. recall Romeu's comments that the midfield was told not to support the attackers in case of a break. That we still had a below average defense despite all this extra attention and reinforcement speaks volumes. Trusting people like you with 'stats' is like trusting a toddler with a firearm.

 

Its not as simple as that though is it. While Pellegrino was in charge our defence was average, or if you want to be pedantic very lightly below avearge. After 30 games we had the 12th best defensive record, and that was on the back of a 3-0 at Newcastle. Take out the 5-2 embarrassment against Spurs we were bang average. We fell below average after Hughes came in. 44 goals conceded after 30 games, thats 3 in every 2 games, really quite decent for anyone outside the top 6. Only conceding 1 or 2 goals per game is actually defensively good. Trouble was we were abject at scoring. Remeber also that up to the Spurs game we also had Forster in goal. So don't try tomake out we had a below average defence under Pellegrino, who as you say set us up to be defensively solid, we didn't we were pretty much average. Not forgetting also that for the first half of the season we also had van Dijk (who also gave goals away by his sloppy play). Our problems under Pellegrino (besides not scoring goals), was too often giving the ball away when we were in possession, indeed several goals were conceded from our abject play from our own corners, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, Davis, Lemina, all guilty. Our CBs were usually in the area providing some of our most potent attacking options when the ball was givem away, you can't blame them for not being able to stop these goals, when they are doing what they should be and, in Stephens case at lease, being quite successful. The stats that you slate Tajjuk for stating (although actually he didn't really) were actually very relevant, and for those who care to actually review what went on are very telling, certainly not something to be dismissed in your patronising way.

[doddisalegend]

Its not as simple as that though is it. While Pellegrino was in charge our defence was average, or if you want to be pedantic very lightly below avearge. After 30 games we had the 12th best defensive record, and that was on the back of a 3-0 at Newcastle. Take out the 5-2 embarrassment against Spurs we were bang average. We fell below average after Hughes came in. 44 goals conceded after 30 games, thats 3 in every 2 games, really quite decent for anyone outside the top 6. Only conceding 1 or 2 goals per game is actually defensively good. Trouble was we were abject at scoring. Remeber also that up to the Spurs game we also had Forster in goal. So don't try tomake out we had a below average defence under Pellegrino, who as you say set us up to be defensively solid, we didn't we were pretty much average. Not forgetting also that for the first half of the season we also had van Dijk (who also gave goals away by his sloppy play). Our problems under Pellegrino (besides not scoring goals), was too often giving the ball away when we were in possession, indeed several goals were conceded from our abject play from our own corners, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, Davis, Lemina, all guilty. Our CBs were usually in the area providing some of our most potent attacking options when the ball was givem away, you can't blame them for not being able to stop these goals, when they are doing what they should be and, in Stephens case at lease, being quite successful. The stats that you slate Tajjuk for stating (although actually he didn't really) were actually very relevant, and for those who care to actually review what went on are very telling, certainly not something to be dismissed in your patronising way.

 

Last season we conceded 56, the season, before 48, this season before that 41 the season before that 33 our defensive record has been in decline the last couple of seasons and with it so has our league form its not just the CBs, the goal keeper and the DM shield have also gone down in quality. People keep banging on about goals scored but the 7th placed team last season scored less than us what they did do though was not concede many.

[shurlock]

Its not as simple as that though is it. While Pellegrino was in charge our defence was average, or if you want to be pedantic very lightly below avearge. After 30 games we had the 12th best defensive record, and that was on the back of a 3-0 at Newcastle. Take out the 5-2 embarrassment against Spurs we were bang average. We fell below average after Hughes came in. 44 goals conceded after 30 games, thats 3 in every 2 games, really quite decent for anyone outside the top 6. Only conceding 1 or 2 goals per game is actually defensively good. Trouble was we were abject at scoring. Remeber also that up to the Spurs game we also had Forster in goal. So don't try tomake out we had a below average defence under Pellegrino, who as you say set us up to be defensively solid, we didn't we were pretty much average. Not forgetting also that for the first half of the season we also had van Dijk (who also gave goals away by his sloppy play). Our problems under Pellegrino (besides not scoring goals), was too often giving the ball away when we were in possession, indeed several goals were conceded from our abject play from our own corners, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, Davis, Lemina, all guilty. Our CBs were usually in the area providing some of our most potent attacking options when the ball was givem away, you can't blame them for not being able to stop these goals, when they are doing what they should be and, in Stephens case at lease, being quite successful. The stats that you slate Tajjuk for stating (although actually he didn't really) were actually very relevant, and for those who care to actually review what went on are very telling, certainly not something to be dismissed in your patronising way.

 

Point is that we should have had a well above average defence given how conservatively Pellegrino set us up and ready he was to sacrifice our attack to keeping clean sheets. Also odd that there's no mention of VVD who even at 70 or 80% was still our best CB. As for cherrypicking games -every club can point to heavy defeats- you've lost the argument before you've even started there

Edited 22 July, 2018 by shurlock

[John Boy Saint]

I know it's only pre season but that was some shocking defending.

Certainly was, looked like zero defence management.........bloody great big hole where Maya normally would be repelling boarders.

[THINWHITEDUKE]

Calm down everyone, no point in slitting your wrists just yet, check out how the rest of the Premier league are faring in pre-season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44805989

[egg]

Calm down everyone, no point in slitting your wrists just yet, check out how the rest of the Premier league are faring in pre-season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44805989

 

Knowing that other teams doing badly doesn't solve our defensive, goal creation and goal scoring problems.

[verlaine1979]

I guess if we get d*cked by Celta Vigo it'll be at the same point in our preparations as the Augsburg game last season, and we can all start to worry legitimately about a repeat season...

[Saint86]

This thread should be saved for comedy gold.

 

We lose a pre-season friendly when we barely have the whole squad back from summer, and some within the fanbase actually start abusing players. That is some classy, intelligent, and knowledgeable fans we've got

[Saint IQ]

I also feel that Yoshi, Vest and Bedna could be our best lineup for back 3/5

 

Agree. Hoedt and Stephens will have to make do with cup games to prove themselves.

[captainchris]

Agree. Hoedt and Stephens will have to make do with cup games to prove themselves.

 

Agree with Hoedt not sure about Stephens as much though.

I was a bit surprised how poor McQueen was against Derby ... I would just bother with him again, woeful marking....

[THINWHITEDUKE]

Knowing that other teams doing badly doesn't solve our defensive, goal creation and goal scoring problems.

 

Just saying, 'we are not alone'

[austsaint]

I guess if we get d*cked by Celta Vigo it'll be at the same point in our preparations as the Augsburg game last season, and we can all start to worry legitimately about a repeat season...

 

True enough - it's early days but there is the legitimate worry that our new signings are a reserve goal keeper, a midfield upgrade of Stephen Davis, an unproven lump of a CB and a replacement of equal base to Tadic if we are lucky. And then there's the prospect of players like Long, Redmond, Ward-Prowse, Austin, Stephens and Hoedt playing a lot of first team Football.

[tajjuk]

It's a bit more complicated than that pal.

 

Pellegrino set us up to be defensive and difficult to break down -e.g. recall Romeu's comments that the midfield was told not to support the attackers in case of a break. That we still had a below average defense despite all this extra attention and reinforcement speaks volumes. Trusting people like you with 'stats' is like trusting a toddler with a firearm.

 

It is that simple 'pal', we almost got relegated last year because we didn't win enough games because we didn't score enough goals.

 

The attackers not scoring puts pressure on the whole team, look at the amount of late goals we conceded when up by 1 goal to throw wins away because we didn't score chances, the whole team is part of defending not just the nominated defenders and keeper, it's about keeping the ball and causing issues to opposition.

[Micky]

I guess if we get d*cked by Celta Vigo it'll be at the same point in our preparations as the Augsburg game last season, and we can all start to worry legitimately about a repeat season...

 

Difficult to tell really - we got badly embarrassed by Augsburg, but then beat Sevilla 2 nil, 3 or 4 days later. We were shocking against Augsburg and moderately better against Sevilla so friendlies can give you some indication as to the sort of form we are going to show. Even at the first game of the season though, West Ham, we didn't look particularly good, got a win, but that was more to do with the fact that they went down to 10 and we got a last minute pen.

 

I was at Pride Park and we were miles off the pace of Derby, poor all over the field, would struggle to take any positives out of what I saw. Had a look at their forum and quite a few were surprised about how bad we were and have us down as certain for relegation.

 

I'm generally a pretty positive person when it comes to the new season, but I really think we have to improve quite markedly over the next couple of weeks or we will be pretty much in for a season similar to the last.