Saint_clark Posted 28 March, 2022 Share Posted 28 March, 2022 On 25/03/2022 at 21:33, Lighthouse said: I'm going to be unpopular and say I still don't rate him and I'd look to sell in summer. He's had a period of looking better, much like Vest last year, but in the last few games I'd say he has dropped back again. Overall, I just don't think he's that good and I'd rather lose him, Walcott and Djenepo and use the wages on two better players. As I said last summer when I advocated for bringing him back, we didn't need him to be a world beater for it to be worth it, we just needed him to be better than Redmond, Djenepo and Walcott. He has been. We should absolutely look to improve that position, but he should drop down to third choice and two of the other three should go not him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 28 March, 2022 Share Posted 28 March, 2022 4 hours ago, Saint_clark said: As I said last summer when I advocated for bringing him back, we didn't need him to be a world beater for it to be worth it, we just needed him to be better than Redmond, Djenepo and Walcott. He has been. We should absolutely look to improve that position, but he should drop down to third choice and two of the other three should go not him. Yes agree with this. He may not be a World beater, but he’s definitely shown himself to be capable at PL level. We should look to strengthen the position if possible but to be honest it will be difficult for a club of our standing to find better quality. For me Djenepo and Redmond are the big question marks - both are not really offering enough competition. Walcott is a different case…think the intention might be for him to finish his playing career here and move into coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted 9 April, 2022 Share Posted 9 April, 2022 Reverted to form the last five games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarisbury Saint Posted 9 April, 2022 Share Posted 9 April, 2022 1 minute ago, Toussaint said: Reverted to form the last five games Yep, went hiding and didn’t win any of his battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvSFC Posted 9 April, 2022 Share Posted 9 April, 2022 He should be on the to let go list alongside Walcott, Djenepo and Redmond this summer, unless he's still unsellable. Same contract situation as Redmond and he isn't as good as Redmond. If you could personify average, it would be Elyounoussi and one we could definitely improve on with a bit of a budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 Don't offer new deal. Sell for small fee if possible. If only takers are on loan then keep and let him go free next summer. Agreed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 56 minutes ago, Dusic said: Don't offer new deal. Sell for small fee if possible. If only takers are on loan then keep and let him go free next summer. Agreed? yeah, he's a funny one. Sometimes he looks quite neat, compact and a technically decent player then the next match he looks all at sea. The only one of the No. 10's as they are now being called I would keep is Stuart Armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 1 hour ago, beatlesaint said: yeah, he's a funny one. Sometimes he looks quite neat, compact and a technically decent player then the next match he looks all at sea. The only one of the No. 10's as they are now being called I would keep is Stuart Armstrong. Think keeping him depends on his wages and expectations. If he is paid to be 4th choice, and happy to be featuring from the bench as a squad player then keep him. He offers some creativity at times, and can play both sides and in the middle if needed so is useful there. If he wants to be playing every game and is paid in the top 10 earners at the club then it makes sense to try and move him on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfcphilc Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 Personally I don't think he's good enough and we need to stop stockpiling bang average players. He had a good spell at the beginning of the season and he's certainly better now than he was before the loan move but if we can move him on for a small fee then I would. Saying that there's a few others that should be out the door before him including Djenepo, Walcott and Smallbone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyell Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 (edited) He's simply not suited to this league. His footballing instincts are pretty good: he takes the ball on the half turn, cleverly manipulates it out of his feet and drives into space - and is then chased down, overtaken and dispossessed within two strides because he's slower than coastal erosion. He's the Vestergaard of number 10s: theoretically a decent player, but in practice a long way short. Edited 27 May, 2022 by qwertyell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 Championship standard. Can see why he done well in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 When I saw this thread had been bumped I hoped it would be at least a rumour of some sort, oh well. It’s like we ordered Dusan Tadic from wish.com, I’d let him go for pretty much any offer if it gets him off the wage bill. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 8 hours ago, Dusic said: Don't offer new deal. Sell for small fee if possible. If only takers are on loan then keep and let him go free next summer. Agreed? Agreed, not strong enough or quick enough to make an impact. 2 hours ago, Sfcphilc said: Personally I don't think he's good enough and we need to stop stockpiling bang average players. He had a good spell at the beginning of the season and he's certainly better now than he was before the loan move but if we can move him on for a small fee then I would. Saying that there's a few others that should be out the door before him including Djenepo, Walcott and Smallbone. I was going to say Smalllbone has age on his side, but on looking him up realised he is 22, by which time you would have expected a bit more. Tella is another one who is seen as a 'youngster' but again is 22. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 1 minute ago, Badger said: Agreed, not strong enough or quick enough to make an impact. I was going to say Smalllbone has age on his side, but on looking him up realised he is 22, by which time you would have expected a bit more. Tella is another one who is seen as a 'youngster' but again is 22. Nearly 23 in Tella’s case. I like his pace and attitude, type of player you want to see succeed, but bar the Fulham goal and penalty won at Sheffield Utd I’m struggling to think of obvious end product. Should follow the Obafemi route and move to Champ and make an impact. Smallbone I don’t think would get a buyer at this stage, probably a loan with a Champ/League One club that will bulk him out a bit and get exposure to sustained first team football to mature. If he does well, win win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 27 May, 2022 Share Posted 27 May, 2022 On 29/08/2021 at 07:52, Saint_clark said: Knew he had it in him. Funny as fuck people writing him off after the equivalent of 10 games. This aged well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 28 May, 2022 Share Posted 28 May, 2022 6 hours ago, bpsaint said: This aged well Finished the season with 8 goals and 4 assists in 33 appearances, 3rd best in our squad for both. Can we improve? Yes. But he's nowhere near as bad as people make out and I would sell Redmond, Djenepo and Small one before Elyounoussi who I would keep as backup to whoever we bring in. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 28 May, 2022 Share Posted 28 May, 2022 8 hours ago, saint1977 said: Nearly 23 in Tella’s case. I like his pace and attitude, type of player you want to see succeed, but bar the Fulham goal and penalty won at Sheffield Utd I’m struggling to think of obvious end product. Should follow the Obafemi route and move to Champ and make an impact. Smallbone I don’t think would get a buyer at this stage, probably a loan with a Champ/League One club that will bulk him out a bit and get exposure to sustained first team football to mature. If he does well, win win. I’d keep tella for at least another year given the lack of pace in the squad. Made a real impact in Brighton game. Find it odd we don’t use his pace as an impact sub at all but then Ralph attitude to subs baffles me. as for elyounessi. He made a useful contribution this season. Still find him very limited & you think now would be the time to recoup as much as we can for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 28 May, 2022 Share Posted 28 May, 2022 5 hours ago, Saint_clark said: Finished the season with 8 goals and 4 assists in 33 appearances, 3rd best in our squad for both. Can we improve? Yes. But he's nowhere near as bad as people make out and I would sell Redmond, Djenepo and Small one before Elyounoussi who I would keep as backup to whoever we bring in. You’re rather generously including a hat trick against Newport and a goal against Swansea in that. He is as bad as people make out, the majority of games just pass him by. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 28 May, 2022 Share Posted 28 May, 2022 He did better than I thought he was going to do, and he looked better at times than he's ever looked for us before....but that's not saying much, as he was inept before and now in some games he's moved to around average. Bottom line is we need better than Elyounoussi, another average as hell player with no outstanding attributes. I wouldn't give him a new contract, but I'd wouldn't say it's a problem keeping him around as a squad player and letting him go on a free next year. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dell McDellFace Posted 28 May, 2022 Share Posted 28 May, 2022 I think there is a good player in there somewhere, but I'm not sure he suits Ralph's style of play. I'm not in favour of overloading the wage bill with so-called squad players, would rather go for a high-risk strategy of better quality core squad (assuming we can attract them) and bring in youngsters to fill the gaps. I accept that with a poor run of injuries it could go horribly wrong, but it would be more exciting than another season dishing up a level slightly below mediocracy. This past season was like watching an injured animal struggling to survive in the wilderness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 28 May, 2022 Share Posted 28 May, 2022 10 hours ago, Lighthouse said: You’re rather generously including a hat trick against Newport and a goal against Swansea in that. He is as bad as people make out, the majority of games just pass him by. Ok, I'll ignore those goals. He STILL has more goals than anyone in the squad except JWP, Broja and Adams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 10 hours ago, Saint_clark said: Ok, I'll ignore those goals. He STILL has more goals than anyone in the squad except JWP, Broja and Adams. Yes you are right but the number he has scored is pretty low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 Cannot ever recall him being MOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 22 hours ago, Saint_clark said: Ok, I'll ignore those goals. He STILL has more goals than anyone in the squad except JWP, Broja and Adams. And? That’s like being the 4th best member of Steps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 (edited) On 28/05/2022 at 20:15, Saint_clark said: Ok, I'll ignore those goals. He STILL has more goals than anyone in the squad except JWP, Broja and Adams. I mean the bar isn't set that high to be honest. His goal contributions from the number 10 areas are higher than the other number 10's, sure, but they're still absolutely pitiful and nothing to be happy about. Edited 29 May, 2022 by S-Clarke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 He's the one player of the un-wanted #10's you could imagine a scouting team in Europe could put up a decent argument to sign for their club re: his recent (mainly Celtic) contributions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 2 hours ago, Lighthouse said: And? That’s like being the 4th best member of Steps. 33 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: I mean the bar isn't set that high to be honest. His goal contributions from the number 10 areas are higher than the other number 10's, sure, but they're still absolutely pitiful and nothing to be happy about. The point i'm getting at is that I don't think we should be looking to sell and replace all of them at the same time, and if we're going to keep one of them it should be the one that's actually made the most contribution - not just in terms of stats but also in terms of our best performances. Elyounoussi was instrumental in Spurs away for example, he tore them apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: The point i'm getting at is that I don't think we should be looking to sell and replace all of them at the same time, and if we're going to keep one of them it should be the one that's actually made the most contribution - not just in terms of stats but also in terms of our best performances. Elyounoussi was instrumental in Spurs away for example, he tore them apart. He’s exactly the one we should be selling because as well as being average he’s the most sellable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 6 minutes ago, Baird of the land said: He’s exactly the one we should be selling because as well as being average he’s the most sellable. So we keep the ones that make zero impact and take a gamble on a £15million player doing better than he can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 15 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: So we keep the ones that make zero impact and take a gamble on a £15million player doing better than he can? No, I’d happily see the back of five of our six so-called creative players. There’s basically no risk, we get absolutely naff all from any of them. I wouldn’t put any order or preference on them, if we get an offer for Moi but not Walcott I’d still take it. 33 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: The point i'm getting at is that I don't think we should be looking to sell and replace all of them at the same time, and if we're going to keep one of them it should be the one that's actually made the most contribution - not just in terms of stats but also in terms of our best performances. Elyounoussi was instrumental in Spurs away for example, he tore them apart. He was also instrumental in being a hopeless non-event against Burnley, Newcastle, Chelsea, Villa, Liverpool and many other games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Fastenbüttl Posted 29 May, 2022 Share Posted 29 May, 2022 On 28/05/2022 at 04:03, Saint_clark said: Finished the season with 8 goals and 4 assists in 33 appearances, 3rd best in our squad for both. Can we improve? Yes. But he's nowhere near as bad as people make out and I would sell Redmond, Djenepo and Small one before Elyounoussi who I would keep as backup to whoever we bring in. fwiw, last season Redmond ranked in the top 10% across Europe's five largest leagues (per game) for passes into the penalty area, crosses into the penalty area and clearances. He was in the top 20% for blocks, touches in the defensive penalty area + was in the top 30% for assists, through balls, crosses, defensive and attacking third presses, successful dribbles, carries into the attacking third and recoveries. In the interest of balance, however, he also ranked very highly for the number of blocked passes and passes to offside players, offsides + was in the top 4% for miscontrols and possessions lost. Not that I'm a Nathan fanboy by any stretch. But on paper parts of his season actually looked very good. He ranks significantly better in every offensive stat, although Ely trounced him in the defensive stats where he was actually one of the best performers in Europe, shockingly (top 2% successful pressures, and top 5% midfield tackles!). All of this is on FBref. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neef Posted 30 May, 2022 Share Posted 30 May, 2022 Realistically we're not going to tear the whole squad up in one summer. So odeally two of Theo, Redmond, Djenepo & Moi would leave, then we sign two first XI quality No.10s alongside the one we already have (Stu). Think Theo and Djenepo should go. Redmond & Moi aren't incredible, but have proved suitable as depth options. I've actually quite liked Moi this season to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 May, 2022 Share Posted 30 May, 2022 3 hours ago, Neef said: Realistically we're not going to tear the whole squad up in one summer. So odeally two of Theo, Redmond, Djenepo & Moi would leave, then we sign two first XI quality No.10s alongside the one we already have (Stu). Think Theo and Djenepo should go. Redmond & Moi aren't incredible, but have proved suitable as depth options. I've actually quite liked Moi this season to be honest. I wouldn't be against having Elyounoussi in and around the squad, as you're right we can't move absolutely everyone on. But his appearances need to be less than they were this year if we are to truly progress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 30 May, 2022 Share Posted 30 May, 2022 2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: I wouldn't be against having Elyounoussi in and around the squad, as you're right we can't move absolutely everyone on. But his appearances need to be less than they were this year if we are to truly progress. I would rather keep Elyounoussi than Redmond. There, I've said it 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 30 May, 2022 Share Posted 30 May, 2022 4 minutes ago, beatlesaint said: I would rather keep Elyounoussi than Redmond. There, I've said it 😂 Elyounoussi remains out of his depth in this league, Redmond is just frustratingly inconsistent but sometimes very effective. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 30 May, 2022 Share Posted 30 May, 2022 6 hours ago, Neef said: Realistically we're not going to tear the whole squad up in one summer. So odeally two of Theo, Redmond, Djenepo & Moi would leave, then we sign two first XI quality No.10s alongside the one we already have (Stu). Think Theo and Djenepo should go. Redmond & Moi aren't incredible, but have proved suitable as depth options. I've actually quite liked Moi this season to be honest. Zero chance of getting a fee for Theo. At best you are going to get a loan fee for djenepo based on last few years. So You really have to sell at least one of moi or Redmond. Personally i’d sell Moi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 1 June, 2022 Share Posted 1 June, 2022 On 30/05/2022 at 14:01, Matthew Le God said: Elyounoussi remains out of his depth in this league, Redmond is just frustratingly inconsistent but sometimes very effective. I'd argue they are both good squad players for us. Every now and then i get the impression Redmond is only just shy of being a good winger... but as you say, he doesn't do it consistently. I do think Redmond's game would improve more than the rest if he wasn't surrounded by other very average attackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 1 June, 2022 Share Posted 1 June, 2022 On 29/05/2022 at 22:09, Ralph Fastenbüttl said: [Redmond] was in the top 4% for miscontrols and possessions Key stat for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 New contract talks: https://www.tv2.no/sport/14849877/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 Just now, Dusic said: New contract talks: https://www.tv2.no/sport/14849877/ Probably makes sense. It's not FM. Unlikely we'd sell every #10 we have. Ralph obviously rates him. (Although that might be irrelevant if we have a poor start next season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 (edited) I wouldn't have got rid of him this summer myself, as we need the depth and won't be able to do everything in one window. But I wouldn't be giving him a new contract, I'd let it expire next summer and then replace him with better then. I guess we're trying to protect our investment. Edited 7 June, 2022 by S-Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 I think Redmond offers more, but presumably someone has to make way, if we're looking to upgrade there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 (edited) He's awful. However, if reports that Redmond, Djenepo and Theo are being moved on are true, it probably makes sense, on some quantum level perhaps, to keep him. Much as it pains me to say. Because he's awful. Edited 7 June, 2022 by Suhari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 7 minutes ago, Suhari said: He's awful. However, if reports that Redmond, Djenepo and Theo are being moved on are true, it probably makes sense, on some quantum level perhaps, to keep him. Much as it pains me to say. Because he's awful. If we have to keep two out of the four, would rather we keep Redmond and Ely 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylander Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 16 minutes ago, Suhari said: He's awful. However, if reports that Redmond, Djenepo and Theo are being moved on are true, it probably makes sense, on some quantum level perhaps, to keep him. Much as it pains me to say. Because he's awful. Remind me how many goals he scored last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 1 hour ago, waylander said: Remind me how many goals he scored last season 4 goals 2 assists in the PL. From 30 games. He's our 3rd best #10, but still awful. No pace, little creativity. Sums up the attacking dross we've signed in recent years. But as per my previous post: to make up numbers it probably makes sense to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvSFC Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 Yeah, I’m in the Redmond’s better camp too. The issue with both really, is that when we’re good, they’re good, but when we’re not on top in a match, it’s like playing with 10 men. And that happens often, as even when we are good, we give Jekyll and Hyde performances in either half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West end Saints Posted 7 June, 2022 Share Posted 7 June, 2022 I'm not convinced he is the level if we are aiming for top half, but where we are he is worth keeping. Offers more than Djenepo, Armstrong and Walcott - both in work rate and product. Him and Redmond were our best in those roles last season - which is a bit concerning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 8 June, 2022 Share Posted 8 June, 2022 More than happy for Moi to stay. but its very obviously his level is very linked to the level of play around him. His best games for us this season were when the whole team were performing. So the success of a further spell would be very much linked to the caliber of play of incoming players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 8 June, 2022 Share Posted 8 June, 2022 Fine to be a squad player, just don't want him to be the first name on the teamsheet come the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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