Mo Elyounoussi

[StrangelyBrown]

He was good in a poor league but that's the sort of players we go for in the hope of pulling off a find. Chances are though for every gem you do unearth you are going to have go through a big pile of rocks to find it.

 

I guess the debate is do you keep buying cheaper options who have done well at a lower level (or been a reserve at a good level) in the hope they come good and spread your money over several positions in the squad or spend more on someone proven at the top level in one postion.

 

It's a pretty convincing arguement that the money spent on the likes of Moi, Hoedt, Boufal, Carrillo and Gabbi etc might have been better spent on one top top striker and one quality CB ( at least until they get injuries or go on strike to get a move to Liverpool [emoji12])

 

 

 

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Do you honestly think that it is simply a case of spending more on better known players? We're not an attractive proposition for really good players (no European football, wage limits) so we'd always be looking at players who wouldn't quite be good enough to play for the big teams - if we want someone who is proven.

 

Looking for undiscovered gems or young players with potential is the right approach in my mind, but imo for every gem we will have to put up with some players who simply aren't good enough.

 

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[nta786]

There is always a risk with this strategy, but it's also the only realistic way of improving over time. I know we managed it with Lovren/Alderweireld/van Dijk, but the chances of us finding an upgrade on van Dijk were extremely slim, no matter what we spent. But perhaps if we bought 3 new players and they all turned out to be half decent then our team might be stronger overall.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with our business model per se, but clearly it relies on the scouting department being reasonably good. The answer to the debate really lies with how much luck there is with finding the right players. Were we just fortunate that the likes of Mane, Wanyama and Tadic were good players, or did we have different people or different criteria in place then? Or perhaps the environment has changed - maybe we were ahead of the game with this 'black box' idea but now other teams are just as sophisticated, plus you have the issue that the big clubs hoover up about 3 team's worth of talent so there simply isn't enough leftover for everyone else? This last thought only came to me as I scrolled through the list of PL transfers in summer 17/18 looking for alternative £10-£15m signings to Wesley Hoedt. Surely there would be loads... but Maguire was the only obvious one I could see.

 

I think it is a combination of things tbh.

 

Firstly, I think it is a motivational thing too in part. I think when we bought Mane, he was on something fairly paltry like £35k per week- there is a desire for him to be motivated and obviously he is reaping these rewards at Liverpool now. I believe even Toby was on something low as £40k. Of course, this went all out of the system when we started offering new contracts and a higher pay scale. I reckon players like Elyounoussi are on 60k minimum, and tbh he'll acknowledge himself he won't get more anywhere else and is quite content. With hindsight, these long contracts are hampering us now as we see we are finding it hard to get rid of anyone.

 

The other thing to consider might just be arrogance- we probably thought we were some magicians when it came to recruitment and maybe 2014/2015 recruitment was all a one-off fluke.

 

There is a whole host of factors to consider too- our managerial recruitments have also hampered us in part...

There isn't an all-inclusive answer tbh

[Viking Saint]

He's the Egyptian Norwegian Emmanuel Mayuka.

 

Apart from being born in Morocco

[OttawaSaint]

He is utterly diabolical. It's like his footballing brain is powered by hamsters.

[benjii]

Apart from being born in Morocco

 

Oh, my mistake. He's the Moroccan Norwegian Emmanuel Mayuka.

[verlaine1979]

His problem is he's not just slow, he's remarkably slow. Considering people have been banging on about the pace of the PL for years now, it would seem a pretty good rule of thumb that you shouldn't spend serious money on attackers who aren't quick unless you have a really, really good reason for doing it (exceptional technique, vision, strength). His other attributes just aren't anywhere near impressive enough (underhit passes, ponderous decision-making) to make up for his utter dearth of speed.

 

Tadic was slow too, but had superior numbers from a superior league and even he would've probably been 10x the player he was with an extra yard of acceleration.

 

I'd argue on this evidence that Elyounoussi's signing is an even bigger error than Carillo - any competent scout should've been able to tell after ten minutes of watching him (let alone six sodding years) that he's far too slow to cut it.

[OttawaSaint]

If he was a horse he'd have been shot by now.

 

The scout who recommended him needs shooting too.

[Manuel]

Tadic was slow too, but had superior numbers from a superior league and even he would've probably been 10x the player he was with an extra yard of acceleration.

Lallana also a good example. Lacked pace in the prem, and new it, so chose to focus on skills and technique to improve his game.

 

Ely had better hurry up with improving if he's going to make the grade.

[Turkish]

If he was a horse he'd have been shot by now.

 

The scout who recommended him needs shooting too.

 

When he signed it was said We'd been tracking him for 6 years. Which means this one is down to Paul Mitchell.

[shurlock]

When he signed it was said We'd been tracking him for 6 years. Which means this one is down to Paul Mitchell.

 

Tracking a player is one thing; pulling the trigger on them is quite another.

[OttawaSaint]

Tracking a player is one thing; pulling the trigger on them is quite another.

 

Trigger would be a good nickname for him.

[hypochondriac]

Trigger would be a good nickname for him.

Old Yeller would be a good nickname. He needs putting out of his misery.

[doggface]

I remember listening to the saintsfc pod with Claus on it, he was asked what he thought of the recent Moi signing being a fellow Norwegian.

 

He didn't outright say he was ****, but reading between the lines it was clear he didn't rate him.

 

I actually feel a little sorry for him, 1st player I have seen for a long time who looks genuinely out of his depth.

[brett24]

I remember listening to the saintsfc pod with Claus on it, he was asked what he thought of the recent Moi signing being a fellow Norwegian.

 

He didn't outright say he was ****, but reading between the lines it was clear he didn't rate him.

 

I actually feel a little sorry for him, 1st player I have seen for a long time who looks genuinely out of his depth.

 

I thought MANE was the worst player ever after his performance at Sheff Utd!!!! Look how things can change. Give him a pre-season with Ralph and he will improve for next season.

[verlaine1979]

Tracking a player is one thing; pulling the trigger on them is quite another.

 

Quite - I guess any player whose data is being regularly updated in our apparently comprehensive database is technically being tracked by the club.

 

I do wonder if that whole thing was a misunderstanding on his part. If we'd been so enamored of his quality that we felt the need to pay close attention to him from the age of 18, then presumably we could've picked him up for peanuts at any time before he scored one against City and added a few zeroes to his price tag. Seems far more likely that someone just mentioned in passing that the club had been aware of him since he turned pro and it got turned into an epic (and unlikely) story of pursuit.

[doggface]

I thought MANE was the worst player ever after his performance at Sheff Utd!!!! Look how things can change. Give him a pre-season with Ralph and he will improve for next season.

 

Hope your right, just can't see it though. I always rated Mane even though he was a bit raw at the very start he always made things happen.

[verlaine1979]

I thought MANE was the worst player ever after his performance at Sheff Utd!!!! Look how things can change. Give him a pre-season with Ralph and he will improve for next season.

 

Nah, plenty of people could see that Mane had something from his first substitute appearance in the league. I probably give as much benefit of the doubt to flair players as anyone (I still want Boufal back and regret that we never used Gaston to his full potential ffs) but I haven't seen a single thing to get excited about in Elyounoussi's play since he joined.

[hackedoff]

If you can't buy a good player,at least buy a quick one.

[Lighthouse]

Nah, plenty of people could see that Mane had something from his first substitute appearance in the league. I probably give as much benefit of the doubt to flair players as anyone (I still want Boufal back and regret that we never used Gaston to his full potential ffs) but I haven't seen a single thing to get excited about in Elyounoussi's play since he joined.

 

Gaston and Boufal were both luxury players who massively flattered to deceive. Gaston had 4 years, including an ineffective season at Hull and did naff all. Boufal scored one worldie per season and was dropped by 3 different managers, then another at Celta.

 

Tadic was an effective flair player, the other two are just crap.

[Crab Lungs]

Do you honestly think that it is simply a case of spending more on better known players? We're not an attractive proposition for really good players (no European football, wage limits) so we'd always be looking at players who wouldn't quite be good enough to play for the big teams - if we want someone who is proven.

 

Looking for undiscovered gems or young players with potential is the right approach in my mind, but imo for every gem we will have to put up with some players who simply aren't good enough.

 

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I’ve said it a million times on here before - you can still get high prem level standard footballers for 4, 5, 6m - there’s thousands out there. It’s our scouting (and seemingly limited scope of European football) that limits us. It’s like our scouting dept just load up small database on FM and filter ‘value 20m or less’ and just randomly pick from that.

 

We really don’t have to spunk 15, 20m on players when there’s cheaper, better alternatives out there.

 

If only we had someone in that department who could identify that.

[Saint Albert]

Moi’s made the team for the Guardian’s summer signings “Flops XI”...

 

“To class the £16m signing of a 24-year-old who had only ever played in Norway and Switzerland as a gamble is putting it lightly. Mohamed Elyounoussi had Champions League experience with Basel and plenty of international caps with Norway but it is not particularly surprising that he has struggled to step up. The winger has shown flashes of his ability but no end product in a Saints jersey, without a single goal or assist to his name in 12 league appearances, and he has played just 93 minutes in the league under new manager Ralph Hasenhüttl.”

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2019/jan/29/transfer-window-summer-signings-flopped-season

[SuperSAINT]

Moi’s made the team for the Guardian’s summer signings “Flops XI”...

 

“To class the £16m signing of a 24-year-old who had only ever played in Norway and Switzerland as a gamble is putting it lightly. Mohamed Elyounoussi had Champions League experience with Basel and plenty of international caps with Norway but it is not particularly surprising that he has struggled to step up. The winger has shown flashes of his ability but no end product in a Saints jersey, without a single goal or assist to his name in 12 league appearances, and he has played just 93 minutes in the league under new manager Ralph Hasenhüttl.”

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2019/jan/29/transfer-window-summer-signings-flopped-season

 

What a shame. Seemingly such a waste of money.

[Danbert]

Moi’s made the team for the Guardian’s summer signings “Flops XI”...

 

“To class the £16m signing of a 24-year-old who had only ever played in Norway and Switzerland as a gamble is putting it lightly. Mohamed Elyounoussi had Champions League experience with Basel and plenty of international caps with Norway but it is not particularly surprising that he has struggled to step up. The winger has shown flashes of his ability but no end product in a Saints jersey, without a single goal or assist to his name in 12 league appearances, and he has played just 93 minutes in the league under new manager Ralph Hasenhüttl.”

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2019/jan/29/transfer-window-summer-signings-flopped-season

 

Flashes of ability my arse. He hasn't done one single impressive thing since he's joined - nothing, not a turn, not a flick, not a shot. Nothing. He is so clearly way below the required standard. Sometimes we've signed players who've flattered to deceive, but he doesn't even do that. He's a complete waste of space. I can't believe we signed a player for so much money who has nothing whatsoever going for him.

[Dellman]

Flashes of ability my arse. He hasn't done one single impressive thing since he's joined - nothing, not a turn, not a flick, not a shot. Nothing. He is so clearly way below the required standard. Sometimes we've signed players who've flattered to deceive, but he doesn't even do that. He's a complete waste of space. I can't believe we signed a player for so much money who has nothing whatsoever going for him.

 

Just the sort of thing that was written about Mane

[Lighthouse]

Just the sort of thing that was written about Mane

 

And Nilsson.

[Batman]

And Nilsson.

 

Throw in Neil McCann in that.

We let him go too early

[benjii]

Just the sort of thing that was written about Mane

 

Really? Only a few of the more special people on here ever said that about Mane. Most normal people knew he was class.

[Bad Wolf]

I'm usually the first to stick up for players who show "flashes of ability" ie Boufal or Ramirez but this guy doesn't. He's utter crap at everything.

[Bad Wolf]

Really? Only a few of the more special people on here ever said that about Mane. Most normal people knew he was class.

 

No they really didn't. Everyone was on his back and calling him a flop.

[benjii]

No they really didn't. Everyone was on his back and calling him a flop.

 

Pretty sure it was a few divs. If it was lots of people then that simply shows there were lots of divs.

 

In either case, the point is that anyone who understood football knew Mane was class and knows Mo has shown nothing of the sort.

[Bad Wolf]

Pretty sure it was a few divs. If it was lots of people then that simply shows there were lots of divs.

 

In either case, the point is that anyone who understood football knew Mane was class and knows Mo has shown nothing of the sort.

 

Everyone was an exaggeration on my part. It was more than a few though. I would even say as much as 50%.

[Mystic Force]

I never understood the people who didn't rate Mane at the beginning he was clearly class. As for finding "cheap" players, I reckon as soon you call and say "hello I am calling on behalf of PREMIER LEAGUE Southampton" the price shoots up because they know the premier leagues got money.

 

Secondly a "relegation threaten" club is not the same prospect for attracting talent who want to showcase their ability as "mid table" or "up and coming" is and that's a reality the club has to deal with till such time as they can aspire to be considered "mediocre" instead of "poor" by potential recruits.

[sadoldgit]

Flashes of ability my arse. He hasn't done one single impressive thing since he's joined - nothing, not a turn, not a flick, not a shot. Nothing. He is so clearly way below the required standard. Sometimes we've signed players who've flattered to deceive, but he doesn't even do that. He's a complete waste of space. I can't believe we signed a player for so much money who has nothing whatsoever going for him.

 

What about his run and chip to Long to set up Armstrong’s goal against Derby?

[Toussaint]

No they really didn't. Everyone was on his back and calling him a flop.

 

I did, I was wrong, very wrong.

[Lighthouse]

Everyone was an exaggeration on my part. It was more than a few though. I would even say as much as 50%.

 

People who wrote him off or people who thought he was poor for a period of time? You can definitely put me in the latter camp as he was dreadful for about 5 games leading up to that Sheff Utd performance.

[S-Clarke]

He really is dreadful. Not holding out much hope for a change as he doesn't have any real attributes.

[John B]

He really is dreadful. Not holding out much hope for a change as he doesn't have any real attributes.

 

He is far from dreadful just has little confidence and has not got used to the PL because he has been in and out of the team.

 

Against Derby he had a chance but was a little late and the next time he over compensated and got to the ball to early.

 

At least he gets in positions to score

 

I just don't understand how these fringe players get a chance to play in games if there are no Reserve Games

[hypochondriac]

He is far from dreadful just has little confidence and has not got used to the PL because he has been in and out of the team.

 

Against Derby he had a chance but was a little late and the next time he over compensated and got to the ball to early.

 

At least he gets in positions to score

 

I just don't understand how these fringe players get a chance to play in games if there are no Reserve Games

I disagree. He's virtually anonymous in almost every game this season. He's not a premier league player at all.

[hypochondriac]

Everyone was an exaggeration on my part. It was more than a few though. I would even say as much as 50%.

That's b*llocks and I know that because the last time it was brought up someone posted the relevant threads where it was discussed. It was about 4 or 5 posters at most and they were idiots (and I said so in the threads at the time.) it's morphed into another sainstsmyth that everyone thought that.

[Cabbage_Face]

Has more chance of coming good than Hoedt.

 

 

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[simo]

That's b*llocks and I know that because the last time it was brought up someone posted the relevant threads where it was discussed. It was about 4 or 5 posters at most and they were idiots (and I said so in the threads at the time.) it's morphed into another sainstsmyth that everyone thought that.

 

More than 4 or 5 on here mush https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?52647-Mane#.XFCz3cmnzqA

[benjii]

I remember some arch-retard saying he was the worst player since Ali Dia.

[verlaine1979]

He is far from dreadful just has little confidence and has not got used to the PL because he has been in and out of the team.

 

Against Derby he had a chance but was a little late and the next time he over compensated and got to the ball to early.

 

At least he gets in positions to score

 

I just don't understand how these fringe players get a chance to play in games if there are no Reserve Games

 

The critical difference between him and Mane is that from his very first game, you could see that Mane had exceptional pace regardless of how you felt about the rest of his qualities. Elyounoussi just hasn't shown a single outstanding (or even above average) physical or technical quality in any game. If he had anything about him at all, you'd have seen glimpses of it by now, even if he wasn't ready to dominate games.

[stknowle]

More than 4 or 5 on here mush https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?52647-Mane#.XFCz3cmnzqA

 

Hard to disagree with the fella who suggested Isgrove needed to be given a run in his place though.

[hypochondriac]

More than 4 or 5 on here mush [emoji38] https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?52647-Mane#.XFCz3cmnzqA

You're one of them on there. Besides the vast majority in that thread were saying he was rubbish in that particular game or had been poor for a few games. Very few were saying he was an awful player or that he would never make it. Edited 29 January, 2019 by hypochondriac

[simo]

You're one of them on there...

 

No **** Sherlock, I started the thread after watching him at Sheffield United put in one of the worst displays of a saints player for many a year .

[hypochondriac]

No **** Sherlock, I started the thread after watching him at Sheffield United put in one of the worst displays of a saints player for many a year .[emoji38]

Exactly so the point was that he performed very poorly in a game and people agreed that he was poor in that game. Very few people wrote him off completely on the basis of one game like you did. You were wrong in 2015 and you're wrong now

 

[Micky]

Everyone else was wrong, and I was right. As usual.

 

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[Jonnyboy]

Flashes of ability my arse. He hasn't done one single impressive thing since he's joined - nothing, not a turn, not a flick, not a shot. Nothing. He is so clearly way below the required standard. Sometimes we've signed players who've flattered to deceive, but he doesn't even do that. He's a complete waste of space. I can't believe we signed a player for so much money who has nothing whatsoever going for him.

 

Didn't he do a half decent cross for a goal against Derby?

[benjii]

Didn't he do a half decent cross for a goal against Derby?

 

I would put in a few half decent crosses if I was playing TBF.