Donald Trump Appreciation Thread

[hypochondriac]

This whole protest is pathetically childish.

Pretty embarrassing really. As are the costumes.

Indeed. I see there is a resist placard in the background. I'd love to know what the owner of that placard has done in a personal capacity to "resist" other than dress in a funny costume and smack pots and pans in public. I suspect the answer would be nothing...

[shurlock]

Indeed. I see there is a resist placard in the background. I'd love to know what the owner of that placard has done in a personal capacity to "resist" other than dress in a funny costume and smack pots and pans in public. I suspect the answer would be nothing...

 

As a non-US citizen, what do you suggest he or she does?

[Ludwig]

As a non-US citizen, what do you suggest he or she does?

She could spend all her time on an internet forum telling other people what to do with their time.

[hypochondriac]

As a non-US citizen, what do you suggest he or she does?

That depends doesn't it. Worried about trumps treatment of immigrants? Maybe contribute to a charity that assists them or donate your time for a similar cause. Want to hurt trump financially? Perhaps attempt a grassroots movement of people who pledge to reduce their dependence on US electronics. Maybe consider talking calmly to Americans who disagree with your stance and try to persuade them of your point of view? Whatever you decide there are a myriad of things you can do that would be more productive than hitting a pan in the street or flying a giant trump baby balloon around the country. The very fact that peple raged multiple thousands for that and a sadiq Khan balloon is depressing, particularly when you could have just donated that money to deserving causes and had a much greater positive impact. Many make a big thing about loving Trumps hate but if all that amounts to is this sort of thing for the vast majority then it essentially does absolutely nothing. That isn't to say that there aren't people who do put their money where their mouth is and do something practical but they are hardly the majority. Edited 14 July, 2018 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

She could spend all her time on an internet forum telling other people what to do with their time.

People are free to do as they wish but they certainly aren't free from criticism for doing it.

[shurlock]

That depends doesn't it. Worried about trumps treatment of immigrants? Maybe contribute to a charity that assists them or donate your time for a similar cause. Want to hurt trump financially? Perhaps attempt a grassroots movement of people who pledge to reduce their dependence on US electronics. Maybe consider talking calmly to Americans who disagree with your stance and try to persuade them of your point of view? Whatever you decide there are a myriad of things you can do that would be more productive than hitting a pan in the street or flying a giant trump baby balloon around the country. The very fact that peple raged multiple thousands for that and a sadiq Khan balloon is depressing, particularly when you could have just donated that money to deserving causes and had a much greater positive impact. Many make a big thing about loving Trumps hate but if all that amounts to is this sort of thing for the vast majority then it essentially does absolutely nothing. That isn't to say that there aren't people who do put their money where their mouth is and do something practical but they are hardly the majority.

 

Would appear to imply that you think public demonstrations and marches are a waste of time -and worse an act of self-indulgence?

[hypochondriac]

Would appear to imply that you think public demonstrations and marches are a waste of time -and worse an act of self-indulgence?

Marches and demonstrations with a common purpose and a practical plan to create a positive change are not normally a waste of time. The problem with these sort of demonstrations of late are that if you asked 100 people what the purpose was you would get 100 different responses. It was similar with the women marches last year which were more about screeching at the sky and virtue signalling than actually attempting to do anything of practical use. They had people interviewing participants asking them why they were marching and every single person gave a totally different answer. If the point is to vent collective frustration then I think it's mostly pointless And yes for many who participated, the protest was primarily self indulgent. Edited 14 July, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Verbal]

She could spend all her time on an internet forum telling other people what to do with their time.

 

Spooky...

 

That depends doesn't it. Worried about trumps treatment of immigrants? Maybe contribute to a charity that assists them or donate your time for a similar cause. Want to hurt trump financially? Perhaps attempt a grassroots movement of people who pledge to reduce their dependence on US electronics. Maybe consider talking calmly to Americans who disagree with your stance and try to persuade them of your point of view? Whatever you decide there are a myriad of things you can do that would be more productive than hitting a pan in the street or flying a giant trump baby balloon around the country. The very fact that peple raged multiple thousands for that and a sadiq Khan balloon is depressing, particularly when you could have just donated that money to deserving causes and had a much greater positive impact. Many make a big thing about loving Trumps hate but if all that amounts to is this sort of thing for the vast majority then it essentially does absolutely nothing. That isn't to say that there aren't people who do put their money where their mouth is and do something practical but they are hardly the majority.

[hypochondriac]

Spooky...

Just bizarre. I was asked what I thought would be a better alternative and I gave my answer. As I already said, people are obviously free to do what they like, I'm not commanding anyone to do anything but they can hardly expect to be free from criticism when what they are doing is largely pointless in the opinion of many.

 

And you're one to talk about spending a lot of time on an Internet forum considering the very public and embarrassing meltdown your relationship suffered due to your posts on here.

Edited 14 July, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Verbal]

Just bizarre. I was asked what I thought would be a better alternative and I gave my answer. As I already said, people are obviously free to do what they like, I'm not commanding anyone to do anything but they can hardly expect to be free from criticism when what they are doing is largely pointless in the opinion of many.

 

And you're one to talk about spending a lot of time on an Internet forum considering the very public and embarrassing meltdown your relationship suffered due to your posts on here.

 

Just some friendly advice. Before posting, try reading your guff out loud. It'll help you be less of a co ckwomble. Maybe.

[hypochondriac]

Just some friendly advice. Before posting, try reading your guff out loud. It'll help you be less of a co ckwomble. Maybe.

Thanks for the friendly advice but I hope you're not offended if I choose to ignore the advice from someone who routinely compares posters on a messageboard to Islamic State.

[LGTL]

She could spend all her time on an internet forum telling other people what to do with their time.

 

How is pre-season going for Watford, Buzzin?

[Jonnyboy]

Indeed. I see there is a resist placard in the background. I'd love to know what the owner of that placard has done in a personal capacity to "resist" other than dress in a funny costume and smack pots and pans in public. I suspect the answer would be nothing...

 

You have absolutely no evidence to voice your suspicions that a random person has done nothing. They could very well have done plenty. And expecting everyone on a protest march to all have identical opinions is quite insane. Its a particularly fascist viewpoint in fact. Everyone must conform to certain viewpoint or your presence or contribution isn't welcome. Not sure if you have noticed but everyone in Earth is different.

Anyway ultimately they were all in fact united in a dislike of Trump.

[hypochondriac]

You have absolutely no evidence to voice your suspicions that a random person has done nothing. They could very well have done plenty. And expecting everyone on a protest march to all have identical opinions is quite insane. Its a particularly fascist viewpoint in fact. Everyone must conform to certain viewpoint or your presence or contribution isn't welcome. Not sure if you have noticed but everyone in Earth is different.

Anyway ultimately they were all in fact united in a dislike of Trump.

 

Again a total misinterpretation of what I said. It's a fact that many people on marches such as these have done very little beyond attending the march. I know this because I have spoken to people who have participated, because I have friends all over Facebook who have attended and because of interviews that are freely available. You know as well as I do that this is the case and if you want to now pretend otherwise then you're just being disingenuous.

 

I never said that I expected everyone to have identical opinions, what I said was that I considered worthwhile protests to be when the majority who are there are able to articulate what the practical goals of a protest are. If most of the protesters of the women's march all have different motivations for being there or can't even articulate why they have attended, then what is the point other than to collectively scream at the sky? To use just a couple of examples, Vietnam War protests in previous decades had a practical goal which was to pressure the American government to end the conflict. Black civil rights protests wanted the same rights afforded to people of colour that other races had. The difference between protests like that and the Anti trump rally is that the overarching aims were clear and I don't think anyone can claim they weren't worthwhile and that they had tangible impacts.

 

Voicing a United dislike of Trump achieves precisely nothing and will change nothing. They have the freedom of speech to dress in whatever outfits they like, wave as many flags as they feel like and inflate as many balloons around the country as they want and many others have the right to question them for doing so or wonder if there isn't a better use for all that time and effort.

 

Let's be fair though, the Sadiq Khan balloon and cash for it is also a giant waste of time and money and they would also be much better served donating all of that money to a worthwhile cause where they could actually do something positive.

Edited 14 July, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Jonnyboy]

Again a total misinterpretation of what I said. It's a fact that many people on marches such as these have done very little beyond attending the march. I know this because I have spoken to people who have participated, because I have friends all over Facebook who have attended and because of interviews that are freely available. You know as well as I do that this is the case and if you want to now pretend otherwise then you're just being disingenuous.

 

I never said that I expected everyone to have identical opinions, what I said was that I considered worthwhile protests to be when the majority who are there are able to articulate what the practical goals of a protest are. If most of the protesters of the women's march all have different motivations for being there or can't even articulate why they have attended, then what is the point other than to collectively scream at the sky? To use just a couple of examples, Vietnam War protests in previous decades had a practical goal which was to pressure the American government to end the conflict. Black civil rights protests wanted the same rights afforded to people of colour that other races had. The difference between protests like that and the Anti trump rally is that the overarching aims were clear and I don't think anyone can claim they weren't worthwhile and that they had tangible impacts.

 

Voicing a United dislike of Trump achieves precisely nothing and will change nothing. They have the freedom of speech to dress in whatever outfits they like, wave as many flags as they feel like and inflate as many balloons around the country as they want and many others have the right to question them for doing so or wonder if there isn't a better use for all that time and effort.

 

Let's be fair though, the Sadiq Khan balloon and cash for it is also a giant waste of time and money and they would also be much better served donating all of that money to a worthwhile cause where they could actually do something positive.

 

I think if Trump was impeached tomorrow many people around the world could say "yes, this is what I was marching for or campaigning for. I was a part of the pressure that caused that, in however a tiny way."

The protest made the news around the world. Many large protests don't even make the local London news. This is all part of not sitting idley by when things are going on that of course normal people have close to zero power over. So I disagree that the activity of this protest was pointless. It's got us talking about it and Trump on here, and amongst millions of other people.

[Jonnyboy]

“There is something powerful in the whispering of obscenities, about those in power. There's something delightful about it, something naughty, secretive, forbidden, thrilling. It's like a spell, of sorts. It deflates them, reduces them to the common denominator where they can be dealt with.”

― Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid's Tale

[hypochondriac]

I think if Trump was impeached tomorrow many people around the world could say "yes, this is what I was marching for or campaigning for. I was a part of the pressure that caused that, in however a tiny way."

The protest made the news around the world. Many large protests don't even make the local London news. This is all part of not sitting idley by when things are going on that of course normal people have close to zero power over. So I disagree that the activity of this protest was pointless. It's got us talking about it and Trump on here, and amongst millions of other people.

OK if it makes them feel better but the reality is that if he were impeached they had absolutely nothing to do with it. Everyone knows all the views against trump. Getting us talking isn't about any new conversations regarding him, it's just the same talking points recycled. The protests were primarily about making some middle class types and some people in strange costumes feel good about themselves and make them feel like they are contributing to something when in reality that isn't the case which is why I said the protests were largely self indulgent

[hypochondriac]

“There is something powerful in the whispering of obscenities, about those in power. There's something delightful about it, something naughty, secretive, forbidden, thrilling. It's like a spell, of sorts. It deflates them, reduces them to the common denominator where they can be dealt with.”

― Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid's Tale

Yes that proves my point. It's all designed to make these people feel good about themselves and make them feel like they are achieving something when the reality is the opposite.

 

At the moment it's possible that he could be looking at another term so all those protests about what a monster he is have seemingly had little effect. If the aim is to get him removed then they aren't doing a very good job at all.

Edited 15 July, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Tamesaint]

Yes that proves my point. It's all designed to make these people feel good about themselves and make them feel like they are achieving something when the reality is the opposite.

 

At the moment it's possible that he could be looking at another term so all those protests about what a monster he is have seemingly had little effect. If the aim is to get him removed then they aren't doing a very good job at all.

 

Interesting views. I don't agree with you but nevertheless interesting.

 

In your opinion, is any political protest valid or is it all done so that people can feel good about themselves? Were the suffragettes just protesting to feel good?? How about the anti Vietnam protesters??

[whelk]

Hypo. Do you watch a lot of Fox News?

[Batman]

Interesting views. I don't agree with you but nevertheless interesting.

 

In your opinion, is any political protest valid or is it all done so that people can feel good about themselves? Were the suffragettes just protesting to feel good?? How about the anti Vietnam protesters??

 

Many political protests have a clear objective.

 

Protesting about a democratically elected leader who is implementing many of the policies he was elected on and from a country you cannot influence is a waste of time.

 

However, Owen Jones thinks the ‘struggle’ against trump is just like the suffragette movement, so.......

[Tamesaint]

Many political protests have a clear objective.

 

Protesting about a democratically elected leader who is implementing many of the policies he was elected on and from a country you cannot influence is a waste of time.

 

However, Owen Jones thinks the ‘struggle’ against trump is just like the suffragette movement, so.......

 

.... but if he is visiting your country and you live in a democracy why shouldn't you be able to express your opinions about the visitor???

[whelk]

Many political protests have a clear objective.

 

Protesting about a democratically elected leader who is implementing many of the policies he was elected on and from a country you cannot influence is a waste of time.

 

However, Owen Jones thinks the ‘struggle’ against trump is just like the suffragette movement, so.......

 

You know he is probably the biggest narcissist on the planet? He will hate it. Maybe though his aides will organise a session for him when they all deliver him a compliment and tell him how big his hands are. Get him back smiling again.

Down to personality traits - those that like order are prone to right wing views and cannot get more creative expression as seems pointless to them. Get the trains running on time.

[Batman]

.... but if he is visiting your country and you live in a democracy why shouldn't you be able to express your opinions about the visitor???

 

dont think anyone has suggested you should not.

It is a complete waste of time as I originally pointed out

[hypochondriac]

Interesting views. I don't agree with you but nevertheless interesting.

 

In your opinion, is any political protest valid or is it all done so that people can feel good about themselves? Were the suffragettes just protesting to feel good?? How about the anti Vietnam protesters??

Yes tamesaint I already addressed that point in post number 304 and 314.

[hypochondriac]

Hypo. Do you watch a lot of Fox News?

No.

[shurlock]

Yes tamesaint I already addressed that point in post number 304 and 314.

 

So on your measure the antiwar (Iraq) and Brexit/peoples vote marches were valid whereas the football lads alliance marches aren’t?

[hypochondriac]

So on your measure the antiwar (Iraq) and Brexit/peoples vote marches were valid whereas the football lads alliance marches aren’t?

Hold on I didn't say anything about the football lads alliance. I think that's a pointless waste of time too.

[whelk]

[shurlock]

Hold on I didn't say anything about the football lads alliance. I think that's a pointless waste of time too.

 

I’m not saying you did. You’ve provided a measure e.g. specifity or practicality of objective by which judge the validity of public demonstrations; by extension, you can apply it to a wide swathe of cases. Anxieties about the islamisation of western society hardly fit your criteria. That’s why I said you were unlikely to find FLA marches valid.

 

I won’t go into the reasons why you didn’t call out the FLA marches as a pointless waste of time when posters on here were discussing their own participation in them this time last year. That’s neither here nor there. The Spiked article dismissed the Iraq War marches as a waste of time and symptomatic of the same narcissism that supposedly coursed through the anti-Trump rallies. I guess you’d disagree with that assessment not least as you think the anti-Vietnam demonstrations weren’t a waste of time and the Iraq demos had a similar objective.

Edited 15 July, 2018 by shurlock

[hypochondriac]

I’m not saying you did. You’ve provided a measure e.g. specifity or practicality of objective by which judge the validity of public demonstrations; by extension, you can apply it to a wide swathe of cases. Anxieties about the islamisation of western society hardly fit your criteria.

 

I won’t go into the reasons why you didn’t call out the FLA marches as a pointless waste of time when posters on here were discussing their own participation in them this time last year. That’s neither here nor there. The Spiked article dismissed the Iraq War marches as a waste of time and symptomatic of the same narcissism that supposedly coursed through the anti-Trump rallies. I guess you’d disagree not least as you think the anti-Vietnam demonstrations weren’t a waste of time and they had a practical objective.

I hope you're not suggesting that not entering into any discussion on a group is some sort of endorsement? Besides I don't remember any discussion on the topic but as I've said it's just as pointless.

 

And no I don't think the Iraq war protests were pointless though its true to say that some people who took part in it were quite embarrassing.

[Jonnyboy]

Hold on I didn't say anything about the football lads alliance. I think that's a pointless waste of time too.

 

It almost seems like you've never said anything concrete in terms of your political opinion and therefore you can't be criticised for it.

[shurlock]

I hope you're not suggesting that not entering into any discussion on a group is some sort of endorsement? Besides I don't remember any discussion on the topic but as I've said it's just as pointless.

 

And no I don't think the Iraq war protests were pointless though its true to say that some people who took part in it were quite embarrassing.

 

Nope I wasn't suggesting in any way it was an endorsement; let's just say certain issues pique your interest more than others, even when similar principles are at stake.

[buctootim]

Some marches are in support of a specific policy change and some are in protest at the presence of an individual. I don't see why one is fine and one isn't.

[shurlock]

Some marches are in support of a specific policy change and some are in protest at the presence of an individual. I don't see why one is fine and one isn't.

 

It's a bizarre and frankly moronic distinction - following it through to its logical conclusion means that any protest against a figure of authority, however repulsive their behaviour, is a waste of time because it's not specific enough. Indeed, the worse the leader and presumably the more reasons to oppose him makes that opposition even more pointless still.

Edited 15 July, 2018 by shurlock

[buctootim]

It's a bizarre and frankly moronic distinction - following it through to its logical conclusion means that any protest against a figure of authority, however repulsive their behaviour, is a waste of time because it's not specific enough. Indeed, the worse the leader and presumably the more reasons to oppose him makes that opposition even more pointless still.

 

The protests are also an indirect message to May not to cosy up to Trump in her desperation to find some support. It seems like she has already taken a leaf out his guide to diplomacy book by broadcasting that he thinks Britain should sue the EU. Her middle way plan seems designed to alienate just about everyone.

[hypochondriac]

It almost seems like you've never said anything concrete in terms of your political opinion and therefore you can't be criticised for it.

You can level a lot of criticism at me but you definitely cannot pretend I haven't said a hugs amount about my political opinions- to the point that some would rather I stopped talking about them! Just because I've been consistently misrepresented with people labelling me far right with no evidence does not mean that I haven't made my opinions on a range of issues abundantly clear.

[hypochondriac]

Nope I wasn't suggesting in any way it was an endorsement; let's just say certain issues pique your interest more than others, even when similar principles are at stake.

Yep that's probably true. Most likely because I'm not a fan of hypocrisy and there's a heck of a lot of that when it comes to far left progressive types.

[shurlock]

The protests are also an indirect message to May not to cosy up to Trump in her desperation to find some support. It seems like she has already taken a leaf out his guide to diplomacy book by broadcasting that he thinks Britain should sue the EU. Her middle way plan seems designed to alienate just about everyone.

 

Or to let others know that the advice was bat**** mental -sue where and for what?- and that none of the Brexiteers, as yet, have proposed a credible alternative. That everyone is alienated by her plan -and I'd happily take it over a no deal while am ambivalent about a people's vote- probably says more about levels of political polarisation in this country than the pros and cons of the plan itself.

Edited 15 July, 2018 by shurlock

[buctootim]

Yep that's probably true. Most likely because I'm not a fan of hypocrisy and there's a heck of a lot of that when it comes to far left progressive types.

 

Thats a mantra you repeat over and over. There is absolutely no evidence that the left are more hypocritical or dishonest than the right. The fact you continously single 'them' out for criticism whilst ignoring people like Farage and his 18 year long sup at the 'gravy train' he claims to despise is what positions you firmly on the right of centre.

[Jonnyboy]

Pro Trump/Robinson EDL types attack union man with chairs and glasses.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/fascist-tommy-robinson-supporters-attack-12920784

[sadoldgit]

I think that the anti Trump protests have been brilliant. I live in a small village in the middle of nowhere and even we have had posters hanging out of windows telling him to go home. As to what they will achieve, a darn sight more than sitting on a PC whinging to people you have never met about things you can't change I would imagine. Trump didnt want to spend more time in London because, bless him. he didnt feel welcome. I would say that in itself is a huge result. How do you pro Trump types feel about the pro Robinson Yaxley-Lennon marches? A waste of time too? Did you go?

[HedgeEnder]

 

Classy

[van Hanegem]

but anyone with even a schoolboy grasp of history knows how the denigration or scapegoating of others can lead to a hardening of attitudes which has very real-world consequences.

 

How true...

I do like to read your posts Shurlock as you’re usually well informed and know how to argue. But on many occasion you seem to enjoy yourself with the denigration of other forum members and to polarize a discussion. As you’re aware of the dangerous consequenses, why do you like to push others into a category of nitwits?

 

Or is it me not understanding the banter on a football forum?

[Verbal]

Pro Trump/Robinson EDL types attack union man with chairs and glasses.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/fascist-tommy-robinson-supporters-attack-12920784

 

What else would you expect from the paedophile-led EDL?

[aintforever]

Nothing wrong with protesting but I think these are a bit pointless. He’s a democratically elected Presedent, if he does well he will stay in, if he does badly he will go. A few nob heads protesting will make no difference and rightly so. If anything seeing a bunch of Brit lefties acting like this will just make him more popular with his type of voters.

[sadoldgit]

Nothing wrong with protesting but I think these are a bit pointless. He’s a democratically elected Presedent, if he does well he will stay in, if he does badly he will go. A few nob heads protesting will make no difference and rightly so. If anything seeing a bunch of Brit lefties acting like this will just make him more popular with his type of voters.

 

Is it just Lefties who protest against Trump? I know Tories who have protested against him too.

[aintforever]

Is it just Lefties who protest against Trump? I know Tories who have protested against him too.

 

Probably all sorts but I expect there was more left wing types.

[JackanorySFC]

Probably all sorts but I expect there was more left wing types.

 

I'm a Brexit supporting tory voter but absolutely despise Trump. I'm certain he will end up in a prison cell for obstructing the course of justice and/ or tax evasion. I personally think he is too thick to have conspired with the Russians but his malignant narcissism allowed him to be influenced by those around him with financial links to Russia (including family).

 

Forget all this right vs left b******s, some things are a simple right vs wrong. I'm certain that Trump and those that support him blindly will end up on the wrong side of history.

 

For what it's worth I spend a lot of time in the US, employ Americans and pay US taxes/ 401k etc. That said this is truly a global issue, his ignorance (of everything from climate change, animal cruelty, arts/ culture to trade and global politics/ history) is ****ing dangerous and has ramifications for everyone on the planet. To anyone that goes out and protests against him fair play, people are talking about it (especially in the USA where the London protests got blanket coverage on the news and on social media) which makes them clearly worthwhile.

[buctootim]

I'm a Brexit supporting tory voter but absolutely despise Trump. I'm certain he will end up in a prison cell for obstructing the course of justice and/ or tax evasion. I personally think he is too thick to have conspired with the Russians but his malignant narcissism allowed him to be influenced by those around him with financial links to Russia (including family).

 

Forget all this right vs left b******s, some things are a simple right vs wrong. I'm certain that Trump and those that support him blindly will end up on the wrong side of history.

 

For what it's worth I spend a lot of time in the US, employ Americans and pay US taxes/ 401k etc. That said this is truly a global issue, his ignorance (of everything from climate change, animal cruelty, arts/ culture to trade and global politics/ history) is ****ing dangerous and has ramifications for everyone on the planet. To anyone that goes out and protests against him fair play, people are talking about it (especially in the USA where the London protests got blanket coverage on the news and on social media) which makes them clearly worthwhile.

 

Good post