Donald Trump Appreciation Thread

[badgerx16]

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Trump had been in charge when Bin Laden was killed.

Bin Laden was an international terrorist, although the CIA had helped him to his position of power. Soleimani was a member of a legitimate national command structure, and a key opponent of ISIS.

[Batman]

Bin Laden was an international terrorist, although the CIA had helped him to his position of power. Soleimani was a member of a legitimate national command structure, and a key opponent of ISIS.

 

The Iranian chap was also a terrorist, right

[hypochondriac]

Bin Laden was an international terrorist, although the CIA had helped him to his position of power. Soleimani was a member of a legitimate national command structure, and a key opponent of ISIS.

 

How was Solemani not a terrorist?

[shurlock]

Are people seriously comparing Bin Laden and Solemani? F**k me this place is special.

[Batman]

Are people seriously comparing Bin Laden and Solemani? F**k me this place is special.

 

People. By that you mean 1 whole person?

[shurlock]

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Trump had been in charge when Bin Laden was killed.

 

The same reaction as when al baghdadi was killed. Very relieved and happy.

[egg]

How was Solemani not a terrorist?

 

Because he was a member of a legitimate national command structure, not a splinter group, paramilitary organisation or similar. In what way was he a terrorist? Is the head of the Saudi government a terrorist for slaying people in Yemen? The Israeli top guys for killing people in Gaza? To answer, they are not, but neither was Solemani and he doesn't become one because the state he was associated with is not a western ally.

[shurlock]

People. By that you mean 1 whole person?

 

Yep. But its a refrain that's been frequently heard on social media and parts of the US media. Its by no means an isolated viewpoint.

Edited 8 January, 2020 by shurlock

[Batman]

Yep. But its a refrain that's been frequently heard on social media. Its by no means an isolated viewpoint.

 

Ah, elsewhere. I though you meant this place.

 

Fair enough

[shurlock]

Ah, elsewhere. I though you meant this place.

 

Fair enough

 

Nope. RedArmy's view is symptomatic of a wider view that I find completely puzzling. That's what I meant. But fair play for trying to read my mind Jamie

[Batman]

Nope. RedArmy's view is symptomatic of a wider view that I find completely puzzling. That's what I meant. But fair play for trying to read my mind Jamie

 

you said 'people and this place'...

 

Are people seriously comparing Bin Laden and Solemani? F**k me this place is special.

 

this place? = 1 person?

 

either way, good point, well made.

[shurlock]

you said 'people and this place'...

 

 

 

this place? = 1 person?

 

either way, good point, well made.

 

As I said his view is symptomatic of a wider view that I find completely puzzling.

 

As for the "this place is special" comment, yes, its striking how even in a conversation among a handful of posters an absurd, thick-as-pig**** view like this can crop up. Given the world is full of oddballs, you might expect it crop up in 1/50, 1/100 or 1/1000 (unless you inhabit a Fox News echo chamber). But hey presto you don't need to look that far to find it here. So yes Jamie this place is f**king special. Again fair play for trying to read my mind.

Edited 8 January, 2020 by shurlock

[hypochondriac]

Because he was a member of a legitimate national command structure, not a splinter group, paramilitary organisation or similar. In what way was he a terrorist? Is the head of the Saudi government a terrorist for slaying people in Yemen? The Israeli top guys for killing people in Gaza? To answer, they are not, but neither was Solemani and he doesn't become one because the state he was associated with is not a western ally.

"A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." He fits the definition exactly.

[Batman]

As I said his view is symptomatic of a wider view that I find completely puzzling.

 

As for the "this place is special" comment, yes, its striking how even in a conversation among a handful of posters an absurd, thick-as-pig**** view like this can crop up. Given the world is full of oddballs, you might expect it crop up in 1/50, 1/100 or 1/1000. But hey presto you don't need to look that far to find it here. So yes Jamie this place is f**king special. Again fair play for trying to read my mind.

 

oooeeer

[benjii]

"A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." He fits the definition exactly.

 

So do any number of government agencies. Trump threatened to destroy "cultural sites" which makes him a terrorist as well then.

 

That being the case, it is hardly a label which legitimises the action.

 

The reality is that this operation is unlikely to achieve any benefit, has weakened the US position in Iraq and hastened Iran's nuclear ambitions, one would imagine.

[hypochondriac]

So do any number of government agencies. Trump threatened to destroy "cultural sites" which makes him a terrorist as well then.

 

That being the case, it is hardly a label which legitimises the action.

 

The reality is that this operation is unlikely to achieve any benefit, has weakened the US position in Iraq and hastened Iran's nuclear ambitions, one would imagine.

 

Threatening to destroy something isn't the same as doing it. If trump deliberately destroys cultural sights then fair enough but he hasn't. You're now changing the parameters, he very clearly meets the definition of a terrorist and to pretend otherwise simply because he was an important figure in Iran is bizarre. Many experts on the matter don't believe its weakened the US position, many are suggesting it has badly weakened Iran and they have few options because they aren't mad enough to start a war. My main worry is that Trump doesn't really have a wider plan, but I'm certainly not upset that this terrorist has been dealt with, and the thousands of families who have been victimised by him are currently celebrating.

[egg]

"A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." He fits the definition exactly.

 

Sounds like the Israeli and Saudi governments. What's the difference?

[hypochondriac]

Sounds like the Israeli and Saudi governments. What's the difference?

What's that got to do with anything? I asked how Solemani was not a terrorist considering he clearly meets the definition. Your response was something irrelevant about being high up in the Iranian regime. Victims of Solemani are incredibly thankful and definitely consider him to be a terrorist, I reckon they'd be in a good position to know.

 

Edited 8 January, 2020 by hypochondriac

[RedArmy]

Are people seriously comparing Bin Laden and Solemani? F**k me this place is special.

Who compared anyone? Fair play for trying to read my mind

[benjii]

Threatening to destroy something isn't the same as doing it. If trump deliberately destroys cultural sights then fair enough but he hasn't. You're now changing the parameters, he very clearly meets the definition of a terrorist and to pretend otherwise simply because he was an important figure in Iran is bizarre. Many experts on the matter don't believe its weakened the US position, many are suggesting it has badly weakened Iran and they have few options because they aren't mad enough to start a war. My main worry is that Trump doesn't really have a wider plan, but I'm certainly not upset that this terrorist has been dealt with, and the thousands of families who have been victimised by him are currently celebrating.

 

“unlawful intimidation”.

[benjii]

What's that got to do with anything? I asked how Solemani was not a terrorist considering he clearly meets the definition. Your response was something irrelevant about being high up in the Iranian regime. Victims of Solemani are incredibly thankful and definitely consider him to be a terrorist, I reckon they'd be in a good position to know.

 

 

The point is that the definition you came up with can be applied to most countries with an active military foreign policy so it is not very useful when one of those countries seeks to rely on it to justify their actions.

 

Calling whole units within a government “terrorists” is simple-minded and intended to appeal to those people who struggle with complexity i.e Trump voters.

[hypochondriac]

The point is that the definition you came up with can be applied to most countries with an active military foreign policy so it is not very useful when one of those countries seeks to rely on it to justify their actions.

 

Calling whole units within a government “terrorists” is simple-minded and intended to appeal to those people who struggle with complexity i.e Trump voters.

It's not a definition I came up with, it's the dictionary definition. Not all military foreign policies involve illegal acts of violence against usually civilian populations. If you like you can give a narrower definition- you can only be labelled a terrorist if you instruct groups of armed men to shoot and kill unarmed civilians in cold blood. Does that make someone a terrorist? It's not whole units, it's the person almost solely in charge of various militia and armed groups commiting murders under his instruction.

 

No man in the world involved in more death in more countries and yet you don't consider him a terrorist?

Edited 8 January, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Batman]

Iran's response last night was incredibly calculated or incredibly pathetic.....

 

I guess time will reveal to the masses which it was

 

Trump confirms Iran's military has stood down from last night.

Confirms severe sanctions remain.

Confirms that it was the USAs own money that help'd to fund Iran's hostility and that will stop.

Wants a new deal with Iran to make them non-nuclear but prosperous.

wants NATO to be more involved.

Wants the UK, France, China and Russia to rip up the defunct Nuclear deal and work towards a new one.

wants to work with Iran to finish off ISIS forever

USA is ready to embrace peace with Iran, if they want it

Edited 8 January, 2020 by Batman

[hypochondriac]

One of the world's leading mass murderers of Muslims, killing almost entirely for political reasons and yet not a terrorist?

[shurlock]

Iran's response last night was incredibly calculated or incredibly pathetic.....

 

I guess time will reveal to the masses which it was

 

Trump confirms Iran's military has stood down from last night.

Confirms severe sanctions remain.

Confirms that it was the USAs own money that help'd to fund Iran's hostility and that will stop.

Wants a new deal with Iran to make them non-nuclear but prosperous.

wants NATO to be more involved.

Wants the UK, France, China and Russia to rip up the defunct Nuclear deal and work towards a new one.

wants to work with Iran to finish off ISIS forever

USA is ready to embrace peace with Iran, if they want it

 

Are you doing pressers notes for Trump now?

 

In short term, Iran's actions look like fence-rattling but its hard to see how the US position in the middle east has been strengthened long-term. Says alot when even Bibi Netanyahu distances himself from the killing.

[whelk]

Why have the Beeb started pronouncing ‘Iranian’ as iraaanian? Poncy fckers it’s always been Ir -rain-ian

[badgerx16]

Why have the Beeb started pronouncing iraaanian incorrectly. Poncy fckers it’s always been Ir -rain-ian

'merican English. Getting ready for the post-Brexit trade deal annexation.

[whelk]

Sure they’d be plenty on here who’d have been clamouring for us to have got involved in Vietnam back in the day to back America

[sadoldgit]

I bet the poor souls on the plane that was blown out of the sky are thankful the world is a safer place after the assassination.

[benjii]

I bet the poor souls on the plane that was blown out of the sky are thankful the world is a safer place after the assassination.

 

Not to mention his driver’s family and anyone else who was simply part of an escort party.

[hypochondriac]

I bet the poor souls on the plane that was blown out of the sky are thankful the world is a safer place after the assassination.

The only people at fault for Iran blowing up a plane are Iran.

[sadoldgit]

The only people at fault for Iran blowing up a plane are Iran.

 

You sound more like Donald Trump everyday. There were signs that you were becoming a decent person over Christmas but sadly the old hypo has reappeared. It was good while it lasted, but back to normal it seems.

[hypochondriac]

You sound more like Donald Trump everyday. There were signs that you were becoming a decent person over Christmas but sadly the old hypo has reappeared. It was good while it lasted, but back to normal it seems.

You're talking your normal guff. I haven't changed in the slightest, I'll continue to call out your mad posts I'm not sure what gave you the impression I wouldn't. Iran shoots down a plane and in your mind and the minds of some other mad lefty loons its Trump to blame for it. Would you be saying the same thing of Obama? Of course you wouldn't, people like you quite liked Obama so you wouldn't be blaming him despite him being the drone striker in chief.

[aintforever]

The only people at fault for Iran blowing up a plane are Iran.

 

To be fair, the fact that they were expecting an American air attack would have made the chances of this sort of thing more likely, if it was an accidental surface to air missile that brought it down. These things happen when you put a country with a third rate military on a war footing.

 

Obviously, whoever was operating the missile shoulders most of the blame but fact is, if Trump hadn't have murdered Soleimani then all these people would probably be still alive.

[hypochondriac]

To be fair, the fact that they were expecting an American air attack would have made the chances of this sort of thing more likely, if it was an accidental surface to air missile that brought it down. These things happen when you put a country with a third rate military on a war footing.

 

Obviously, whoever was operating the missile shoulders most of the blame but fact is, if Trump hadn't have murdered Soleimani then all these people would probably be still alive.

 

If the Iranians hadn't messed around and captured American and UK ships, hadn't killed thousands under the command of Soleimani and hadn't recently caused trouble at the US embassy in Iraq then it's unlikely that Trump would have killed the terrorist and all these people would probably still be alive.

[aintforever]

If the Iranians hadn't messed around and captured American and UK ships, hadn't killed thousands under the command of Soleimani and hadn't recently caused trouble at the US embassy in Iraq then it's unlikely that Trump would have killed the terrorist and all these people would probably still be alive.

 

True, Iran and the US are both to blame.

[sadoldgit]

If the Iranians hadn't messed around and captured American and UK ships, hadn't killed thousands under the command of Soleimani and hadn't recently caused trouble at the US embassy in Iraq then it's unlikely that Trump would have killed the terrorist and all these people would probably still be alive.

 

Is the world a safer place after the assassination of the “terrorist?” How does this play with the idea of “deescalation” in the region. By the way, wasn’t this guy responsible for taking down ISIS?

[hypochondriac]

Is the world a safer place after the assassination of the “terrorist?” How does this play with the idea of “deescalation” in the region. By the way, wasn’t this guy responsible for taking down ISIS?

Most of them answer your questions from people who actually are experts. In short you don't know what you're talking about.

[sadoldgit]

We have had these conversations before. You don’t seem to agree, but it gives people a further reason to go out on the streets carrying knives and stabbing innocent strangers. If this was strategic, why wasn’t it done long ago. Don’t you find it odd that it happens just before his impeachment and with an election on the way? He has recently said he wants less involvement in the Middle East and then he pulls this stunt. Even his own advisors are pulling their hair out. Why do you constantly defend this person who is putting the safety of us all at risk?

[hypochondriac]

We have had these conversations before. You don’t seem to agree, but it gives people a further reason to go out on the streets carrying knives and stabbing innocent strangers. If this was strategic, why wasn’t it done long ago. Don’t you find it odd that it happens just before his impeachment and with an election on the way? He has recently said he wants less involvement in the Middle East and then he pulls this stunt. Even his own advisors are pulling their hair out. Why do you constantly defend this person who is putting the safety of us all at risk?

So experts in the region consider this development to be a good thing and yet self appointed expert spggy and woke celebs thinks its bad. Gotcha. You would do well to heed the advice below and I never said it was strategic:

[sadoldgit]

So in one of the most dangerous regions in the world, don’t you think it is worth having a strategy rather than just playing things by ear? Doesn’t it worry you that ISIS are delighted that he has been killed.

 

Oh, and thanks for grouping me in with “woke” celebrities. I think you will find that there are hundreds of thousands of normal people who think that this action was reckless too.

[hypochondriac]

Threatening to destroy something isn't the same as doing it. If trump deliberately destroys cultural sights then fair enough but he hasn't. You're now changing the parameters, he very clearly meets the definition of a terrorist and to pretend otherwise simply because he was an important figure in Iran is bizarre. Many experts on the matter don't believe its weakened the US position, many are suggesting it has badly weakened Iran and they have few options because they aren't mad enough to start a war. My main worry is that Trump doesn't really have a wider plan, but I'm certainly not upset that this terrorist has been dealt with, and the thousands of families who have been victimised by him are currently celebrating.

So in one of the most dangerous regions in the world, don’t you think it is worth having a strategy rather than just playing things by ear? Doesn’t it worry you that ISIS are delighted that he has been killed.

 

Oh, and thanks for grouping me in with “woke” celebrities. I think you will find that there are hundreds of thousands of normal people who think that this action was reckless too.

You obviously missed my earlier reply as I've already answered this. I think it's a great thing that one of the largest mass killers of Muslims is dead, you seem to think its a bad thing.

[Batman]

Iran shot down a passenger jet. By accident!

 

I’m sure the outrage from Corbyn/Labour will be harsh on them.... any time now!

[hypochondriac]

Iran shot down a passenger jet. By accident!

 

I’m sure the outrage from Corbyn/Labour will be harsh on them.... any time now!

The left response is to blame trump apparently! Bad man making Iran nervous...

[Jonnyboy]

The left response is to blame trump apparently! Bad man making Iran nervous...

 

People said it would destabilise the region and lead to more death and destruction. Which it has.

 

Are there any success stories of Western intervention in the region?

Edited 11 January, 2020 by Jonnyboy

[hypochondriac]

People said it would destabilise the region and lead to more death and destruction. Which it has.

 

Are there any success stories of Western intervention in the region?

It's impossible to say if it's led to MORE deaths. Many experts reckon it will stall Iranian operations for a long time. As someone else said, it was a grave miscalculation from Solemani that Iranian aggression wasn't going to be met with a response and its cost hin his life. Hopefully we will see less of this Edited 11 January, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Lighthouse]

Are there any success stories of Western intervention in the region?

 

I'd say the first Gulf War and liberating Kuwait was relatively successful.

 

On a separate issue, I'd say the shoot down has shown the good social media CAN do in this world. As much as I loathe it some times for the crap that gets posted, I doubt Iran would have admitted guilty quite so readily without all the photos and videos which leaked onto twitter.

[whelk]

There is definitely a link to those that have loved VAR this season and people I wouldn’t want to have a drink with

Edited 11 January, 2020 by whelk
Wrong thread

[sadoldgit]

You obviously missed my earlier reply as I've already answered this. I think it's a great thing that one of the largest mass killers of Muslims is dead, you seem to think its a bad thing.

 

It has the potential to be “a bad thing,” especially if there was not strategic reasons for it other to help Trump win the next election and curry favour pre impeachment. All I heard from our security minister after the event was the word “deescalate.” If you don’t escalate you don’t have to deescalate. Trump also managed to unify the region against America/The West. Job well done? Ok, he has removed one bad man, you really dont think they have plenty more replacements? Meanwhile sad young men are plotting their revenge in bedsits in this country and sharping their knives.

[Batman]

It has the potential to be “a bad thing,” especially if there was not strategic reasons for it other to help Trump win the next election and curry favour pre impeachment. All I heard from our security minister after the event was the word “deescalate.” If you don’t escalate you don’t have to deescalate. Trump also managed to unify the region against America/The West. Job well done? Ok, he has removed one bad man, you really dont think they have plenty more replacements? Meanwhile sad young men are plotting their revenge in bedsits in this country and sharping their knives.

 

Unify the region against America?

 

You really live in cloud cuckoo land. There are massive protests in Iran alone as we speak.

 

Christ almighty.