Donald Trump Appreciation Thread

[LuckyNumber7]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I understand that and it also doesn't seem appropriate to start bringing this up in the immediate aftermath of a disaster but the idea that standards have been lowered in order to cater to DEI initiatives isn't such an outlandish proposition. I haven't seen a suggestion yet that the air traffic controller was at fault but I would certainly disagree with DEI initiatives favouring individuals based on immutable characteristics. 

Quite. Trump was wrong for bringing it up in the immediate aftermath before any investigation, but the fact that saying something like this is deemed controversial now shows what a clown world we're living in.

The one and only factor that should count when hiring for a job, especially one that potentially puts lives at risk like air traffic control, should be how competent they are at the job.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, egg said:

Your point is a non point if perfectly competent people have got the jobs. 

It's not a non point if less competent people have got a job due to a DEI initiative and a more competent person is overlooked because the risk would then be that the role is performed less well or not as well as it could be if a hiring decision is made on merit. That's really not a controversial position to take. 

[Gloucester Saint]

15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

My point is that DEI initiatives lead to a lowering of standards and the risk that less competent people are employed rather than the best person for the job. I never said someone incompetent got a job. 

There’s no online evidence whatsoever showing a reduction in standards or competence let alone any major accidents or incidents. There’s some conjecture in the US about workplace dynamics on the specifics of how DEI programmes have been implemented in a small number of cases nationally bur subtle adjustments were the answer. There is evidence that all employees regardless of characteristics have had better work environments with them, although this varies by age (oldest by age tend to be less enthusiastic).

But employee performance and productivity seem to be healthy. There can be DEI fatigue if clumsily implemented but overall most employees are positive about them https://www.aihr.com/blog/diversity-equity-inclusion-belonging-deib/

White very conservative leaning billionaires have pushed for this and got it.

Edited yesterday at 19:35 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Quite. Trump was wrong for bringing it up in the immediate aftermath before any investigation, but the fact that saying something like this is deemed controversial now shows what a clown world we're living in.

The one and only factor that should count when hiring for a job, especially one that potentially puts lives at risk like air traffic control, should be how competent they are at the job.

Worth pointing out we still don't know in this case if that has any relevance but the general point is 100% correct. 

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

There’s no online evidence whatsoever showing a reduction in standards or competence let alone any major accidents or incidents. There’s some conjecture in the US about workplace dynamics on the specifics of how DEI programmes have been implemented in a small number of cases nationally bur subtle adjustments were the answer. There is evidence that all employees regardless of characteristics have had better work environments with them, although this varies by age (oldest by age tend to be less enthusiastic).

White very conservative leaning billionaires have pushed for this and got it.

My point was a general one rather than talking about specifics in air traffic control as I have little knowledge of that. If you have a football team and you have a choice of two strikers to sign with identical characteristics except that one has scored 20 goals the previous season and the other has scored 5 and you choose the latter because they happen to be Asian, there's a fairly high risk that you've made your team weaker than they otherwise would have been and increased the likelihood that they will perform below where they could have performed all other things being equal. 

If you want to recruit in order to foster a better work environment, I would explore why a DEI policy has had that affect and look at how I could replicate that environment without blatant discrimination based on something like race or gender. 

Edited yesterday at 19:37 by hypochondriac

[egg]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not a non point if less competent people have got a job due to a DEI initiative and a more competent person is overlooked because the risk would then be that the role is performed less well or not as well as it could be if a hiring decision is made on merit. That's really not a controversial position to take. 

When there's evidence that's happened, there's a conversation to be had. Until then, you sound Trump esque. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

My point was a general one rather than talking about specifics in air traffic control as I have no knowledge of that. If you have a football team and you have a choice of two strikers to sign with identical characteristics except that one has scored 20 goals the previous season and the other has scored 5 and you choose the latter because they happen to be Asian, there's a fairly high risk that you've made your team weaker than they otherwise would have been and increased the likelihood that they will perform below where they could have performed all other things being equal. 

99.9% of jobs aren’t sport or measured like that though. Carrying on the sports analogy, South African cricket had a difficult spell but they are in the World Test Championship Final. If they could get more people through the turnstiles to their Tests and ODIs they’d be in fine shape. 

And the rugby side, who also diversified, are definitely not doing shabbily.

Edited yesterday at 19:38 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

When there's evidence that's happened, there's a conversation to be had. Until then, you sound Trump esque. 

Are you suggesting there is no evidence of some companies moving away from a merit based system to one where the most competent person is not always hired for the job? 

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

99.9% of jobs aren’t sport or measured like that though. Carrying on the sports analogy, South African cricket had a difficult spell but they are in the World Test Championship Final. If they could get more people through the turnstiles to their Tests and ODIs they’d be in fine shape. 

And the rugby side, who also diversified, are definitely not doing shabbily.

Like I said, I don't know the specifics of air traffic control but I would say it is measured in quite a similar way in terms of the requirements of doing the job well. With regards your last point, are you suggesting that the diverse individuals in the rugby team are there because they are less competent than alternatives but were chosen anyway due to their skin colour? 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Like I said, I don't know the specifics of air traffic control but I would say it is measured in quite a similar way in terms of the requirements of doing the job well. With regards your last point, are you suggesting that the diverse individuals in the rugby team are there because they are less competent than alternatives but were chosen anyway due to their skin colour? 

Not all but may have needed a bit more time in the team environment to bring their very best.

In SA cricket, the pipeline took some time before greats like Ntini and Hashim Amla emerged from non-white backgrounds. 

[whelk]

I assume it was either caused by a trans air traffic controller putting make-up shadow on their Adam’s Apple, not looking at screens?  Or a Muslim on a prayer mat ignoring,  more interested in Allah ? Or two lesbians scissoring on the floor neglecting duties? Or was someone playing wheelchair basketball and pissing about?

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Not all but may have needed a bit more time in the team environment to bring their very best.

In SA cricket, the pipeline took some time before greats like Ntini and Hashim Amla emerged from non-white backgrounds. 

I don't understand the logic. Removing prejudice from hiring decisions that may have prevented the best players from playing because they were black is clearly a good thing, as is providing opportunities for black players to show their superior talent. That's not the same as demoting superior white players and promoting lesser black players in the hope that some better black players will come through eventually. 

Football has never taken that approach and we have loads of incredible black talents who are strengthened by the fact that they have arrived at the top table on merit due to their own superior abilities. 

Edited 23 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Gloucester Saint]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't understand the logic. Removing prejudice from hiring decisions that may have prevented the best players from playing because they were black is clearly a good thing, as is providing opportunities for black players to show their superior talent. That's not the same as demoting superior white players and promoting lesser black players in the hope that some better black players will come through eventually. 

Football has never taken that approach and we have loads of incredible black talents who are strengthened by the fact that they have arrived at the top table on merit due to their own superior abilities. 

But that’s how some SA players saw it from that era, a certain SA born player for England moaning about quotas. KP was a great player for England but his domestic record over there wasn’t great. He argues he was being asked to be batting too low and having to rely on his so-so bowling.
It’s choosing good players from any background but when they’re similar at a certain point the diversity aspect can be a tie-breaker. Now their set-up is more balanced the quality is coming through from all backgrounds.

Edited 23 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Lighthouse]

56 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

My point is that DEI initiatives lead to a lowering of standards and the risk that less competent people are employed rather than the best person for the job. I never said someone incompetent got a job. 

You don't just 'get' safety critical aviation jobs. Even if you pass the selection process you have to go through years of training with an instructor sat behind you at all times. You wont be fully signed off unless those instructors are completely satisfied you can handle any situation safely on your own. I know people who've been involved in pilot recruitment and it's no secret that they want more female recruits. It's also no secret that they taken in entire batches of nothing but white men, because they were the only ones who met the required standard.

The FAA may well want to hire more 'diverse' controllers but if they don't meet the full competency standards it's a moot point. You can hire a thousand black lesbians but if none of them reach the standard required all will have to be let go. It's not like any run of the mill admin or logicstics role where you can just stick someone in front of a computer and hope they do a vaguely competent job.

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You don't just 'get' safety critical aviation jobs. Even if you pass the selection process you have to go through years of training with an instructor sat behind you at all times. You wont be fully signed off unless those instructors are completely satisfied you can handle any situation safely on your own. I know people who've been involved in pilot recruitment and it's no secret that they want more female recruits. It's also no secret that they taken in entire batches of nothing but white men, because they were the only ones who met the required standard.

The FAA may well want to hire more 'diverse' controllers but if they don't meet the full competency standards it's a moot point. You can hire a thousand black lesbians but if none of them reach the standard required all will have to be let go. It's not like any run of the mill admin or logicstics role where you can just stick someone in front of a computer and hope they do a vaguely competent job.

Again, my point was about hiring practices in general and you clearly know more about ATC hiring practices than I do but even if you meet rigorous standards (I know standards in other jobs have been watered down somewhat for some categories but I'm not saying that's the case here) it shouldn't be the case that someone with a higher competence for the job is passed over in favour of someone else due to their skin colour.

According to the person I posted about earlier he got 100% on the test. Granted this was seemingly a while ago but hypothetically if that person was overlooked due to his race in favour of a black candidate who got 80% then that's not right. That's not to say that the person who is hired is incompetent, in my hypothetical scenario they still would have got a passing mark.

Using another example if I wanted an airline fighter pilot I may have five outstanding candidates but I want the absolute best one for the job. That might involve looking at thing like temperament but it's ultimately going to come down to the practical skill involved in the role. All five might be more than capable of doing a job but there's clearly going to be an advantage to choosing the best person. Choosing the third or fourth best because they happen to be black isn't the way to go in my opinion. 

Edited 22 hours ago by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

But that’s how some SA players saw it from that era, a certain SA born player for England moaning about quotas. KP was a great player for England but his domestic record over there wasn’t great. He argues he was being asked to be batting too low and having to rely on his so-so bowling.
It’s choosing good players from any background but when they’re similar at a certain point the diversity aspect can be a tie-breaker. Now their set-up is more balanced the quality is coming through from all backgrounds.

I wasn't talking about candidates that are equally good. In a scenario where you have two candidates who are equally competent then there may be other factors to take into account. I'm talking specifically about if lesser black players were promoted over better white players due to their race. That would also be the case if lesser white players were promoted over superior black players due to their race. 

If certain South African players felt that this was happening and that wasn't the case then they are wrong clearly. 

[ChrisPY]

9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

My point was a general one rather than talking about specifics in air traffic control as I have little knowledge of that. If you have a football team and you have a choice of two strikers to sign with identical characteristics except that one has scored 20 goals the previous season and the other has scored 5 and you choose the latter because they happen to be Asian, there's a fairly high risk that you've made your team weaker than they otherwise would have been and increased the likelihood that they will perform below where they could have performed all other things being equal. 

If you want to recruit in order to foster a better work environment, I would explore why a DEI policy has had that affect and look at how I could replicate that environment without blatant discrimination based on something like race or gender. 

What if due to racial biases the Asian striker had only been played for 180 minutes the previous season where the 20 goal a season striker had received 3,000 minutes on the pitch?

[benjii]

No surprise to see the usual suspect wringing this to death.

Anyhoo, how does Trump square his laser-focus on competence and aptitude with: picking a brain-worm conspiracy loon to be in charge of health, picking a tv presenter to be in charge of defence, picking a fascist sympathising, dictator loving traitor to be in charge of intelligence?

It's almost as if, actually, fawning over Trump is more important than being skilled. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, ChrisPY said:

What if due to racial biases the Asian striker had only been played for 180 minutes the previous season where the 20 goal a season striker had received 3,000 minutes on the pitch?

I did say all other things being equal to be fair. The assumption would be that they have had a similar amount of time on the pitch but I'm sure you can understand the analogy. 

[whelk]

56 minutes ago, benjii said:

No surprise to see the usual suspect wringing this to death.

Anyhoo, how does Trump square his laser-focus on competence and aptitude with: picking a brain-worm conspiracy loon to be in charge of health, picking a tv presenter to be in charge of defence, picking a fascist sympathising, dictator loving traitor to be in charge of intelligence?

It's almost as if, actually, fawning over Trump is more important than being skilled. 

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGdDxqf92/
 

 

[sadoldgit]

Sums the situation up very well.

https://metro.co.uk/2025/01/31/trump-insults-plane-crash-victims-every-word-22475567/amp/

Its interesting to see how many people swallow his guff. 

Edited 11 hours ago by sadoldgit
Added text

[Gloucester Saint]

The UK needs to be lowering trade barriers for our SMEs with the EU. America is simply not a reliable substitute trading partner https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg0m79gm10o

As prices increase for US consumers rather than reduce as he promised them, it’ll be interesting to see if the wavering voters who said they didn’t like him or his views but thought that the economy would do better under Trump and they’d have a few extra dollars a week, stick with the GOP at the mid-terms.

Edited 9 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[whelk]

44 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

The UK needs to be lowering trade barriers for our SMEs with the EU. America is simply not a reliable substitute trading partner https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg0m79gm10o

As prices increase for US consumers rather than reduce as he promised them, it’ll be interesting to see if the wavering voters who said they didn’t like him or his views but thought that the economy would do better under Trump and they’d have a few extra dollars a week, stick with the GOP at the mid-terms.

‘Hey gas was cheaper under Trump’. Ignore supply and demand as result of Covid pandemic. I’ll be voting Tory next time as under Thatcher I could buy 20 smokes for a quid. 

[badgerx16]

Will Donnie blame the Philadelphia plane crash on the fact it was carrying Mexicans ?

[trousers]

Out of idle curiosity, why do people usually give attention seekers the attention they crave? Wouldn't it be cleverer to do the opposite? Human nature I guess...

[Holmes_and_Watson]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Out of idle curiosity, why do people usually give attention seekers the attention they crave? Wouldn't it be cleverer to do the opposite? Human nature I guess...

I was going to answer your post, but then wondered if I was falling into the trap. 🙂

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Out of idle curiosity, why do people usually give attention seekers the attention they crave? Wouldn't it be cleverer to do the opposite? Human nature I guess...

I agree although 55,000 posts?  I'm willing to bet a few thousand of them have been spent on attention seekers........

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

I agree although 55,000 posts?  I'm willing to bet a few thousand of them have been spent on attention seekers........

Circa 40000 of those on the Pompey Takeover Saga Thread probably