What's the point?

[ericb]

There's lots of talk on here about renewing season tickets or not but it does seem obvious to me that many are really starting to wonder what the point is of going to games anymore.

 

I'm not just talking about the quality of football here either but far, far more. If you take into account how the game has gone it does make you wonder if we're all just so addicted we're blinded by the mugs we've become. I mean this week alone we've seen

 

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs.

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service.

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds.

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans.

 

and this is without all of the details of the Premier League AGM being leaked yet.

 

On top of that you have the ticket pricing for the FA Cup at Wembley, the tapping up scandal with VVD, the constant loss of players to richer clubs, the pre-season friendlies on different continents, a World Cup final coming up in Qatar, a league (and government) against us even standing up to watch football, kick off times changing at short notice, or times when there's no trains/transport back.

 

And then added to that next season (i think) is when the price cap for the away games runs out and clubs can put them up to above £30 again.

 

All of that and i'm sure i've missed some too.

 

Which does make me wonder, why bother? Are there any real positives left beyond a day on the **** with your friends and catching up with family?

 

Maybe it's different for a younger generation, they didn't experience what we had, so their expectations are set lower than ours, but all things considered there's far more stuff that's unattractive about going now than there ever has been.

[Lets B Avenue]

I go to watch the team I support.

 

1. Sides have always been richer than us and used to be in higher divisions as well.

2. Games weren't on TV apart from 3 or 4 shown as highlights on MOTD and The Big Match.

3. So what and VAR is 25 years overdue.

4. 40 years overdue.

5. Replays were always midweek. Saints don't often reach Rd5 and when we were down in Div 3 we had far more midweek games.

 

Why not just say that the last 2 seasons have been pi ss poor and you don't fancy going anymore?

[northam soul]

Amazon is fine by me as I already pay for it so basically I get some games to watch for free.

I considered not renewing with a long round trip and the lack of entertainment on offer but have decided to as I know I would regret it if I didn’t.

I just hope we get some enjoyment from the games as it’s a long old day just for a good old moan.

[aintforever]

Are there any real positives left beyond a day on the **** with your friends and catching up with family? .

 

That's always been my main reason for going anyway. We support Southampton - the football part has almost always been sh!t.

[Saint Garrett]

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs.

This I dont agree with, but understand why they've done it...more interest in larger clubs etc

 

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service.

Who cares, you'll be able to find streams easier online for free if it's on Amazon

 

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds.

Not sure why this is a problem. Not a huge VAR fan but it's the future of football

 

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20

Just aligning with the rest of Europe and should have a benefit of the national team. Who really cares

 

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans.

Who cares, a lot of fans will still go.

[EkonOkereke]

There's lots of talk on here about renewing season tickets or not but it does seem obvious to me that many are really starting to wonder what the point is of going to games anymore.

 

I'm not just talking about the quality of football here either but far, far more. If you take into account how the game has gone it does make you wonder if we're all just so addicted we're blinded by the mugs we've become. I mean this week alone we've seen

 

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs.

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service.

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds.

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans.

 

and this is without all of the details of the Premier League AGM being leaked yet.

 

On top of that you have the ticket pricing for the FA Cup at Wembley, the tapping up scandal with VVD, the constant loss of players to richer clubs, the pre-season friendlies on different continents, a World Cup final coming up in Qatar, a league (and government) against us even standing up to watch football, kick off times changing at short notice, or times when there's no trains/transport back.

 

And then added to that next season (i think) is when the price cap for the away games runs out and clubs can put them up to above £30 again.

 

All of that and i'm sure i've missed some too.

 

Which does make me wonder, why bother? Are there any real positives left beyond a day on the **** with your friends and catching up with family?

 

Maybe it's different for a younger generation, they didn't experience what we had, so their expectations are set lower than ours, but all things considered there's far more stuff that's unattractive about going now than there ever has been.

 

Top post this. :thumbup:

[Saint86]

A differing opinion for you Eric. If I may.

 

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs. - Its right it should be linked to performance. What is not right is the FFP glass ceiling or the lack of a wage cap etc. To look at the other extremes, it would be a poorer league if competive excellece was not rewarded and bottom got the same (or more) than the top teams. See NFL draft etc.

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service. - I actually welcome amazon having access to tv rights and can't wait for the day when saints games are pay for view rather than having to pay a fortune to watch games from 19 teams I don't care about.

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds. - VAR is the future - unless you enjoy being on the end of Doucoure handballs and dodgy 96min goals from freekicks that shouldn't have been given and were taken in the wrong spots.

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20 - Good for england, and good for the teams with smaller squads...

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans. - I agree this is bad. Although evening games are certainly special.

 

I think the real issue is that Saints fans are suffering from having a bunch of unambitious sheisters at the helm. Over the past few seasons we have been lied to non stop and had all crowd favourites sold and demonised in the press. We have suffered under frankly incompetant management and boring football, abandoned the philosophies that the fans loved and which defined us. And are suffering from a fall from grace.

 

If we were competing to be 6th place, had ambition, and retained our players then the fans would be happy. As none of those apply the fans feel largely apathetic (at best) about saints and football in general.

 

That is my take on it anyway. Likely to be a mixture of multiple factors I suppose.

[Batman]

Imagine had we got more money when. We were good, might have been able to keep a player or sign better ones

 

One thing is certain.... footy fans hate change. Be it kit, name of stadium or fixture shedule

[Whitey Grandad]

A differing opinion for you Eric. If I may.

 

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs. - Its right it should be linked to performance. What is not right is the FFP glass ceiling or the lack of a wage cap etc. To look at the other extremes, it would be a poorer league if competive excellece was not rewarded and bottom got the same (or more) than the top teams. See NFL draft etc.

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service. - I actually welcome amazon having access to tv rights and can't wait for the day when saints games are pay for view rather than having to pay a fortune to watch games from 19 teams I don't care about.

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds. - VAR is the future - unless you enjoy being on the end of Doucoure handballs and dodgy 96min goals from freekicks that shouldn't have been given and were taken in the wrong spots.

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20 - Good for england, and good for the teams with smaller squads...

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans. - I agree this is bad. Although evening games are certainly special.

 

I think the real issue is that Saints fans are suffering from having a bunch of unambitious sheisters at the helm. Over the past few seasons we have been lied to non stop and had all crowd favourites sold and demonised in the press. We have suffered under frankly incompetant management and boring football, abandoned the philosophies that the fans loved and which defined us. And are suffering from a fall from grace.

 

If we were competing to be 6th place, had ambition, and retained our players then the fans would be happy. As none of those apply the fans feel largely apathetic (at best) about saints and football in general.

 

That is my take on it anyway. Likely to be a mixture of multiple factors I suppose.

 

If you think that VAR is going to improve the game then you're in for a big surprise. It will destroy the whole experience and magic of the beautiful game. Are you still going on about free kicks being taken from the wrong place?

 

The only answer to all these very valid points is to support a club from the lowere leagues. Proper football.

[angelman]

TBH I think that the OP has a resonance with many supporters for various reasons connected to the first point, but not sure I agree with the others, not least about Amazon. I am already Amazon Prime for TV and quick deliveries, and I don't think it too badly priced, unless they start charging extra for games. Certainly Sky and BT are poor value by comparison, and I hope that Amazon squash them both (even if Amazon have squashed the High Street)

 

What's the point? To be entertained and follow the club I support. Hopefully the two are synonymous, although the past 2 years have been tricky. I'm never going to support any other team, be it at home or in a different league or abroad. Its Saints or nothing.

 

BUT

 

Your point 1. It's not just the overseas deal, nor clubs being richer than others per se, it is the constant pursuit of riches while shafting everyone else when there already is enough. Not only that, but the integrity of the competition is disappearing when those with the most money, spend the most and win the most. And not only that, but the way that some clubs have done alot of spending before FFP rules came in that now stops any other team challenging the top table. But (and another big one) I do question what the point is of being in a competition that you have little to no chance of winning. Oh we can all see LCFC and fair play to them. It was a perfect storm and they came out on top, and we came 6th. But that is once this century. Since the PL started you have had Man Utd (x13), Arsenal (x3), Chelsea (x5), Manchester City (x3) and Blackburn when they "bought" it. So twice in 25 years for a team out of the Big 6, with two of the Big 6 never winning it (yet!).

 

So that leaves Cup competitions, and as we have a better chance of winning those, we should really concentrate on them.

 

And then there are other parts of the "game" that are unappealing. The players and clubs, and the way they are happy to **** over everyone to get anywhere. There are ways and means of doing it, and few know how to. The money involved is just horrendous. I don't buy this short playing career nonsense, as they are perfectly able to get another job somewhere else without having to earning £500k a week. The way some games are scheduled that away supporters have huge problems getting home eg Newcastle kicking off vs Arsenal at 8pm. Or us vs Newcastle at lunch time.

[percy windham]

Top post this. :thumbup:

It really is a delightful post.

[Dalek2003]

I listen to all football on the wireless. Pretty much the same as 40 years ago.

[Dark Munster]

If you think that VAR is going to improve the game then you're in for a big surprise. It will destroy the whole experience and magic of the beautiful game. Are you still going on about free kicks being taken from the wrong place?

 

The only answer to all these very valid points is to support a club from the lowere leagues. Proper football.

[sammysaint]

If I could afford it I would have a Season ticket, instead I get a membership and go to 8-10 home games and 1-2 away, soon as my youngest goes to school and I save on nursery fees I will be going more often then not when my son doesn't have games himself.

 

Sportsmania and other services have been great but nothing better then being at the game IMO.

[Ken Tone]

Amazon is fine by me as I already pay for it so basically I get some games to watch for free.

I considered not renewing with a long round trip and the lack of entertainment on offer but have decided to as I know I would regret it if I didn’t.

I just hope we get some enjoyment from the games as it’s a long old day just for a good old moan.

 

There's lots of talk on here about renewing season tickets or not but it does seem obvious to me that many are really starting to wonder what the point is of going to games anymore.

 

I'm not just talking about the quality of football here either but far, far more. If you take into account how the game has gone it does make you wonder if we're all just so addicted we're blinded by the mugs we've become. I mean this week alone we've seen

 

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs.

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service.

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds.

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans.

 

and this is without all of the details of the Premier League AGM being leaked yet.

 

On top of that you have the ticket pricing for the FA Cup at Wembley, the tapping up scandal with VVD, the constant loss of players to richer clubs, the pre-season friendlies on different continents, a World Cup final coming up in Qatar, a league (and government) against us even standing up to watch football, kick off times changing at short notice, or times when there's no trains/transport back.

 

And then added to that next season (i think) is when the price cap for the away games runs out and clubs can put them up to above £30 again.

 

All of that and i'm sure i've missed some too.

 

Which does make me wonder, why bother? Are there any real positives left beyond a day on the **** with your friends and catching up with family?

 

Maybe it's different for a younger generation, they didn't experience what we had, so their expectations are set lower than ours, but all things considered there's far more stuff that's unattractive about going now than there ever has been.

I've already renewed, but much of what you say resonates. It's the dominance of TV that's caused the problems. We 'real' fans are treated like **** in favour of the armchair fan. And the money has corrupted just about everyone invilved in the game.

[saintwbu]

I was really considering getting a season ticket for the first time this season, as I stupidly assumed there may be a slight reduction to apologise for the last couple of years. But to know if I missed 3 games I would be paying more than just going to individual games made it completely pointless, and the idea that I would be paying around £580 to sit in the Northam, whilst I could sit 10 yards away in the away end every week and it would cost £380 in total was just disgusting. There is a lot wrong in football at the moment, and we seem to have become experts in how to completely embrace it.

[John Boy Saint]

Amazingly the Germans, who I would gauge as being a pretty bang up to date nation of people, have very little love for VAR.

So Whitey is hobnobbing in some pretty intelligent thinkers in his opinion.

[View From The Top]

We gave up our STs as so many games were being moved, meaning we couldn't go, that there was no longer any point in having them. The games are moved for the TV audience, not for match going fans.

 

Limiting away prices to £30 meant I did plenty of away games last season but if the greddy tw_ats did away with that I doubt I'd go at all.

[northam soul]

We gave up our STs as so many games were being moved, meaning we couldn't go, that there was no longer any point in having them. The games are moved for the TV audience, not for match going fans.

 

Limiting away prices to £30 meant I did plenty of away games last season but if the greddy tw_ats did away with that I doubt I'd go at all.

 

This is my major issue living away, keep changing times to suit tv really ****s up my travel arrangements.

I missed 3 home games last season so cost wise it’s not such good value but having my seat with the same lads just about does it.

By the time I get home I have normally calmed down which saves the mrs and dog from getting a kicking.

[Turkish]

There's lots of talk on here about renewing season tickets or not but it does seem obvious to me that many are really starting to wonder what the point is of going to games anymore.

 

I'm not just talking about the quality of football here either but far, far more. If you take into account how the game has gone it does make you wonder if we're all just so addicted we're blinded by the mugs we've become. I mean this week alone we've seen

 

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs.

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service.

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds.

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans.

 

and this is without all of the details of the Premier League AGM being leaked yet.

 

On top of that you have the ticket pricing for the FA Cup at Wembley, the tapping up scandal with VVD, the constant loss of players to richer clubs, the pre-season friendlies on different continents, a World Cup final coming up in Qatar, a league (and government) against us even standing up to watch football, kick off times changing at short notice, or times when there's no trains/transport back.

 

And then added to that next season (i think) is when the price cap for the away games runs out and clubs can put them up to above £30 again.

 

All of that and i'm sure i've missed some too.

 

Which does make me wonder, why bother? Are there any real positives left beyond a day on the **** with your friends and catching up with family?

 

Maybe it's different for a younger generation, they didn't experience what we had, so their expectations are set lower than ours, but all things considered there's far more stuff that's unattractive about going now than there ever has been.

 

Your second last paragraph hits the nail on the head. In the 90s and 00s a day out was interrupted then ruined by the football. From 09-16 you had a good day out and enjoyed the game. Now we’ve reverted back to type. The major difference is now clubs are only interested in TV figures or fans who will turn up politely clap whatever the score, will buy stuff in the shop and feed their chubby little faces with as much horrific food as they can stuff in it. There really isn’t any point going to premier league games, as someone else said it’s a league of 6 Harlem globetrotters and 14 Washington generals. We are on of the teams served up as lambs to slaughter for the fawning tv audience. If you dare to defy them then be prepared to feel the wrath of Crooks, Redknapp, Murphy or any other ***** paid a fortune to tell us how great the self titled greatest league in the world is.

[Saint in Paradise]

To me modern Football fans are acting just like heroin addicts who are at the mercy of unreliable suppliers who contaminate the supply with

dangerous impurities. Some fans know that it would be so much better for themselves to give it up but they won't because their mind is far

too weak to accept going "cold turkey". They can't, or refuse to, understand that in the end they, and their family, will be so much better off

not only mentally but in a monetary way.

"Football" has changed so much in so many ways over the last 40 years or so but fans haven't they are still living in the distant past.

[Mosin]

Amazingly the Germans, who I would gauge as being a pretty bang up to date nation of people, have very little love for VAR.

So Whitey is hobnobbing in some pretty intelligent thinkers in his opinion.

 

The only German fans I ,know who don't like VAR ( admittingly its only 5 ppl…. ) don't like it cause its could cost them points. am not going to tell you what team they support, but its at a different end to the table we was last season.....

 

 

VAR will be good for the low teams who get cheated out of so many games by the top teams cheating.

 

 

It wont be good for the top teams who seem to get a lot of bad decisions which end up giving them points.

[simo]

**** up Mush init

[ally_uk]

Watching mid table football hoping we can win something...

Developing good players for them to be cherry picked away same as managers..

In the grand scheme of things football is pretty pointless, I don't take it that seriously anymore the whole thing is a bit meh...

Went off Premiership football 3 seasons ago it has steadily declined since...

[ChiefScummer]

I suppose for me it's easy to not have to contemplate if I should buy a season ticket or not because I live in another country. For me saints is literally just an excuse for a p*ss up. Most of my mates here support Scousehampton and I know a total of 3 saints fans. We all just get together down the sports bar and drink till we fall over on match day. Win lose or draw I still have to keep some ibuprofen handy for the morning. Sometimes I don't even remember the game. I wouldn't have it any other way

[LGTL]

I detest VAR in all forms and would do away with it tomorrow.

[Wes Tender]

If you think that VAR is going to improve the game then you're in for a big surprise. It will destroy the whole experience and magic of the beautiful game. Are you still going on about free kicks being taken from the wrong place?

 

The only answer to all these very valid points is to support a club from the lowere leagues. Proper football.

 

If the standard of refereeing was better, then we wouldn't need VAR, but in recent years the standard of referee has fallen badly. And the counter argument is that for the non-glory teams, the whole experience is often ruined by your team being robbed by wrong decisions that often favour those glory clubs. We found ourselves almost relegated for the sake of several points dropped by dodgy refereeing decisions this season. The usual response is that the wrong decisions cancel themselves out over the course of a season, but I am very hard pressed to recall us getting away with much in terms of wrong decisions that favoured us. Now that VAR is finally going to be widespread to make the game fairer, let's follow Rugby and stop the clock when the ball is out of play, to stop the incessant time-wasting too.

[Supersubpuckett]

If the standard of refereeing was better, then we wouldn't need VAR, but in recent years the standard of referee has fallen badly. And the counter argument is that for the non-glory teams, the whole experience is often ruined by your team being robbed by wrong decisions that often favour those glory clubs. We found ourselves almost relegated for the sake of several points dropped by dodgy refereeing decisions this season. The usual response is that the wrong decisions cancel themselves out over the course of a season, but I am very hard pressed to recall us getting away with much in terms of wrong decisions that favoured us. Now that VAR is finally going to be widespread to make the game fairer, let's follow Rugby and stop the clock when the ball is out of play, to stop the incessant time-wasting too.

 

Refs don't stand a chance in the modern game. It's so fast, with so many players skilled at conning that VAR is a must. Added to that the refs get stick from the armchair fan ad commentators who have multiple slow mo replays and zero pressure to make their decisions. If it stops the big 6 gaining advantage through sub-conscious bias from the refs and means we get more decisions our way then we should be right behind it.

[Lighthouse]

If the standard of refereeing was better, then we wouldn't need VAR, but in recent years the standard of referee has fallen badly. And the counter argument is that for the non-glory teams, the whole experience is often ruined by your team being robbed by wrong decisions that often favour those glory clubs. We found ourselves almost relegated for the sake of several points dropped by dodgy refereeing decisions this season. The usual response is that the wrong decisions cancel themselves out over the course of a season, but I am very hard pressed to recall us getting away with much in terms of wrong decisions that favoured us. Now that VAR is finally going to be widespread to make the game fairer, let's follow Rugby and stop the clock when the ball is out of play, to stop the incessant time-wasting too.

 

Been saying that for ages. Make each half 35 mins of 'in play time' (or whatever the average is, rounded up to the nearest 5). When the clock turns 70, play continues until the ball goes out of play, then FT.

[The9]

Same thing every season. Fundamentally all things are futile, we all die. Enjoy it or do something else, no biggie.

[The9]

Refs don't stand a chance in the modern game. It's so fast, with so many players skilled at conning that VAR is a must. Added to that the refs get stick from the armchair fan ad commentators who have multiple slow mo replays and zero pressure to make their decisions. If it stops the big 6 gaining advantage through sub-conscious bias from the refs and means we get more decisions our way then we should be right behind it.

 

Stops the big 6 getting a subconscious bias and enables the opportunity for a delayed, what's best for business, considered bias via VAR. Yeah, great.

[LuckyNumber7]

There's lots of talk on here about renewing season tickets or not but it does seem obvious to me that many are really starting to wonder what the point is of going to games anymore.

 

I'm not just talking about the quality of football here either but far, far more. If you take into account how the game has gone it does make you wonder if we're all just so addicted we're blinded by the mugs we've become. I mean this week alone we've seen

 

1. Overseas TV deal weighted in favour of the already rich clubs.

2. Amazon getting the TV rights meaning people have to fork out on anther service.

3. League cup losing extra time and gaining VAR in premier league grounds.

4. Winter break in the premier league from 2019/20

5. 5th Round of the FA cup moved to midweek making it harder for travelling fans.

 

 

Agree with pretty much all of this. The rich clubs will just get richer making the league even less competitive, whilst the fans are expected to fork out even more money on yet another subscription. Meanwhile the overpaid, overpampered players complain at having to sometimes play two games in a week and that they need another break. I despise this winter break nonsense and couldn't give a toss if it benefits the national team or not (it won't). And whilst I agree referees need help, VAR in it's current form is an abomination.

 

All this added to the increasingly sterile matchday atmosphere and I really am falling out of love with football which I never thought would happen.

That said I will probably still renew.

[Whitey Grandad]

If the standard of refereeing was better, then we wouldn't need VAR, but in recent years the standard of referee has fallen badly. And the counter argument is that for the non-glory teams, the whole experience is often ruined by your team being robbed by wrong decisions that often favour those glory clubs. We found ourselves almost relegated for the sake of several points dropped by dodgy refereeing decisions this season. The usual response is that the wrong decisions cancel themselves out over the course of a season, but I am very hard pressed to recall us getting away with much in terms of wrong decisions that favoured us. Now that VAR is finally going to be widespread to make the game fairer, let's follow Rugby and stop the clock when the ball is out of play, to stop the incessant time-wasting too.

 

The standard of refereeing is better that it has ever been. The referees are much fitter and there are regular seminars to encourage more consistency.

 

What has changed is the prevalence of TV pundits who are encouraged to comment on every incident even when they don’t even know the laws of the game. They go out of their way to create some controversy where none exists. TV has far too much influence anyway. They’ve bought the game and now they want to run it.

[EkonOkereke]

The standard of refereeing is better that it has ever been. The referees are much fitter and there are regular seminars to encourage more consistency.

 

What has changed is the prevalence of TV pundits who are encouraged to comment on every incident even when they don’t even know the laws of the game. They go out of their way to create some controversy where none exists. TV has far too much influence anyway. They’ve bought the game and now they want to run it.

 

The level of reffering in the Premiership last year was a joke. Hence why no English refs at world cup. VAR should be used, like it is in every sport in the world.

[Whitey Grandad]

The level of reffering in the Premiership last year was a joke. Hence why no English refs at world cup. VAR should be used, like it is in every sport in the world.

 

Why was it a joke? Because you didn’t agree with some of the decisions?

 

It’s not used in every sport. It ruins the vibrancy of the game and kills the spirit and atmosphere. It has ruined rugby and even cricket has been distorted for the worse.

 

English referees are as good as any but the rest of the world has been improving. You can’t imply anything from the fact that none are going to the World Cup.

[shurlock]

Why was it a joke? Because you didn’t agree with some of the decisions?

 

It’s not used in every sport. It ruins the vibrancy of the game and kills the spirit and atmosphere. It has ruined rugby and even cricket has been distorted for the worse.

 

English referees are as good as any but the rest of the world has been improving. You can’t imply anything from the fact that none are going to the World Cup.

 

Why do I come away from watching a CL league game thinking that the ref has been spot on whereas virtually every week in the PL throws up some incident or controversy. English refs are generally dogs**t.

[EkonOkereke]

Why was it a joke? Because you didn’t agree with some of the decisions?

 

It’s not used in every sport. It ruins the vibrancy of the game and kills the spirit and atmosphere. It has ruined rugby and even cricket has been distorted for the worse.

 

English referees are as good as any but the rest of the world has been improving. You can’t imply anything from the fact that none are going to the World Cup.

 

There have been plenty of well talked about incidents in the Premier League season that were wrong, not because i didn't like them. It hasn't ruined Rugby at all, or has it cricket. Sadly sport now is worth so much money to the clubs and small errors cannot happen.

 

English Refs are the worst i've seen this year. You have to move with the times and use technology to better the sport.

[Saint-Fred]

Refs don't stand a chance in the modern game. It's so fast, with so many players skilled at conning that VAR is a must. Added to that the refs get stick from the armchair fan ad commentators who have multiple slow mo replays and zero pressure to make their decisions. If it stops the big 6 gaining advantage through sub-conscious bias from the refs and means we get more decisions our way then we should be right behind it.

 

VAR will change very little. It will help with really obvious errors (Gabbi's cup final goal perhaps) but ultimately the bias will be the same whilst the ref has to ask for VAR.

Take Austins semi final goal. If that happens against Man U in the league with VAR it would be disallowed with no review. Fair enough ref thinks he is right etc...

However next game against Chelsea Giroud scores a goal exactly the same against us. The goal is given and the ref doesn't see a reason to review so the goal stands.

Unless VAR is reviewed off the pitch and every decision reviewed it can't make any difference whatsoever ever to the big club bias.

The premier league can't afford it to start levelling the playing field they need Man U and Liverpool at the top of the league to sell the product.

Platini admitted to fixing the 98 World Cup draw to ensure the tournament had the best chance to be as good as possible (ignore the sporting aspect this is about making the product as good as possible and the fight teams in the final).....sound familiar to the quarter final FA cup draw last season anyone?

 

I suspect the premier league we are watching now is heading toward wrestling style coordination it has in reality a while ago stopped being a sporting event and is just big business now.

[scotty]

I suspect the premier league we are watching now is heading toward wrestling style coordination it has in reality a while ago stopped being a sporting event and is just big business now.

 

Perhaps instead of shouting "man on" we could yell out "he's behind you!!"

[doddisalegend]

Newcastle fans view very similar to the OP.

 

https://www.themag.co.uk/2018/06/premier-league-best-world-not-fans-isnt-newcastle-united/

 

It does seem its the traditional match going fans that feel the most fed up with the PL.

[SonicBoom]

Its easy to be cynical about modern football. There is plenty I don't like. But think about it. Was it ever that great or are we longing for a time that never actually existed?

I think we are a lot more sophisticated as fans now. We have way more coverage and analysis and we all have the ability to air our opinions.

Twenty years ago we were just glad to see any football at all on telly.

I started in the chocolate boxes, then graduated to the Archers via the family centre and East stand benches. Most of that time was spent watching a team of very ordinary players hoofing the ball around a pudding of a pitch. We were for the most part utter crap. But we loved the last few games because it was exciting and we'd stay up.

There were of course high points home and away and some of my greatest memories in life revolve around certain games for one reason or another.

People moan now about the food or the quality of the beer. Well for many years you could get a cold pie and a bovril from a shed and stand in the rain to drink it.

There was also that added risk that you could get your head kicked in.

Fans moaned of course but that was confined to the pub after the game and during tea breaks at work. I think things appear worse now as we can all sound off 24 hours a day so the same gripes go on and on until they become the accepted wisdom.

 

My point being that we remember these things with slightly rose tinted glasses. There is a lot wrong with modern football, but the football years ago was pretty bad too. We just remember it more fondly. Even over the last 2 years there have been high points !

[mrfahaji]

Tend to agree with the sentiment of the OP, even if some of the points are minor (e.g. League Cup extra time).

 

The main issue for me now is that the big clubs have so much control and the television companies have so much influence. Add this to the fact that there is so much money in the game (because of the TV) means that this control and influence ends up making such a huge difference in terms of competitiveness and ultimately hope. It feels like every single announcement regarding Premier League or football in general is one which will make the game less competitive.

[Lighthouse]

Stops the big 6 getting a subconscious bias and enables the opportunity for a delayed, what's best for business, considered bias via VAR. Yeah, great.

 

I've never got this logic. I presume your saying VAR would be used to keep the games as even as possible, so if a team is 2-0 down and concedes a penalty it's more likely to be overruled to keep the game 'alive'.

 

I think this would ruin the credibility of the sport. We already have people furiously shouting, "how has the ref not seen that!?" without VAR. If an obvious incident is missed even after 3 replays, such as the goal Carroll conceded against Spurs, Lampard against Germany or Henry's handball against Ireland, it would be massively damaging for football.

[JoeShmoe]

Watching mid table football hoping we can win something...

Developing good players for them to be cherry picked away same as managers..

In the grand scheme of things football is pretty pointless, I don't take it that seriously anymore the whole thing is a bit meh...

Went off Premiership football 3 seasons ago it has steadily declined since...

 

This

 

Just dull now, money has killed it, not just in EPL but across Europe

 

Chairman hire managers to get 40 points to stay up to keep the money rolling in - 10 0-0 draws and 10 1-0 wins would delight 75% of the chairman in the PL

 

boring

[SFC Forever]

If you think that VAR is going to improve the game then you're in for a big surprise. It will destroy the whole experience and magic of the beautiful game. Are you still going on about free kicks being taken from the wrong place?

 

The only answer to all these very valid points is to support a club from the lowere leagues. Proper football.

 

The way that this club is being run we may well be down there very soon

[Charlie Wayman]

Imagine had we got more money when. We were good, might have been able to keep a player or sign better ones

 

One thing is certain.... footy fans hate change. Be it kit, name of stadium or fixture shedule

 

No, no, it's far more concerning than that. ericb has called it the way that many fans see it. Not all change is good and much of the change over the last few years has been downright bad for the game at all levels in England and for fans.

 

We have an English Premier League in name only, the top six clubs mostly being foreign owned, foreigner managed and fielding only foreign players. Only Spurs can make a pretence of still being English. These elite teams could settle anywhere in the world and one day soon probably will, ending up in the US or China or as travelling circus akin to Formula 1. Their legacy will be the ruination of English football. The printed and on-line media have become besotted by the Big 6. There is no balance, no fairness, no alternative vision.

 

Fans have been marginalised to the role of extras. Disillusionment is rife and widespread and the inevitable drift away will begin in earnest soon. Football at grass roots is tribal and rivalry is the lifeblood of tribalism. Rivalry has become inevitability for most fans now so what indeed is the point?

[derry]

After the sterile crap of the last two seasons I'm hoping a British manager will put a bit of character and momentum into the team. I was considering not renewing but the way Hughes picked us up for the last few games and kept us up changed my mind.

 

As for VAR, the Watford handball equaliser was a standout and cost us two valuable points, Alonso's foul on Long ignored by Dean that got him a three match ban possibly cost us another three points. After watching a number of incidents of goalkeepers hooking the ball back into play I'm convinced Hawkeye is the answer to that problem. VAR used properly could be the answer to big team bias as the referees have nowhere to hide.

[mrfahaji]

After the sterile crap of the last two seasons I'm hoping a British manager will put a bit of character and momentum into the team. I was considering not renewing but the way Hughes picked us up for the last few games and kept us up changed my mind.

 

As for VAR, the Watford handball equaliser was a standout and cost us two valuable points, Alonso's foul on Long ignored by Dean that got him a three match ban possibly cost us another three points. After watching a number of incidents of goalkeepers hooking the ball back into play I'm convinced Hawkeye is the answer to that problem. VAR used properly could be the answer to big team bias as the referees have nowhere to hide.

 

The problem with VAR can be demonstrated by our 'goal' in the semi final. The referee chose not to review it. had it been the other end though, I'm sure they would have done.