Centre Backs 18/19

[Baird of the land]

Surprised more teams weren't all over Evans at that price - it's apparently two instalments of £1.75m.

 

For a club struggling with a leader at the back I'm also surprised we didn't have a sniff. I assume we're calm and relaxed about the situation though. I know it's crazy to think, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised for the club to think CB is covered and assume that Bedernak, Hoedt, Yoshida and Stephens are enough, with Alfie Jones as the 5th.

 

Big fan of Evans but in some ways he would be more of what we already have rather than a more physical Centre back.

[SFC Forever]

It seems that we all see that our defence was woeful last season. What we don't seem to remember is that they had no midfield cover worth it's salt for a very large part of that time.

 

Hughes came in and after a couple of games the players began to work as a team. A close call escaping relegation but we can't put all the blame on the back line.

 

Not being able to score adds to the pressure of any side. Our midfield was unable to provide opportunities or even help make some. They also stood watching quite often when bypassed.

 

Hughes changed thee way we played thankfully and I am confident we will continue in a similar vein to that he selected for us at the death.

 

Yes a big strong brave and agile cb would be great but we also need an attacking midfield player preferably in a central position. A fast wide player and a striker not afraid to do just that and strike. Hard and often enough to score the goals we need to be able to see on a regular basis.

[SaintZamboni]

I honestly think that's the way we're going. I think Hughes will go back to 4231 rather than 3 at the back which means we won't sign another center back.

/QUOTE]

 

I disagree with the logic that going back to 2 CBs would mean we don't need to sign one. On the contrary, if we go to a back 4, it is all the more essential that we have better quality in the CB position than we have at the moment. Our poor defence was after all a major reason for why Hughes moved to 3 CBs after we were getting spanked playing with a back 4!

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

It’s not my logic, trust me! I think that it will be the clubs though.

Reckon we’ll shift Lemina and bring in a Wanyama type which may help

[Bobsleigh]

CB needs a complete overhaul, really let us down last season. Hopefully a couple in, couple out.

 

I am not convinced that our defence is as bad as being made out on this forum.

 

Looking at last season, 7 teams shipped more goals than we did - Everton (58 - 8th), Leicester (59 -9th), Bournemouth (61 – 12th), West Ham (68 - 13th), Watford (64 – 14th), Huddersfield (58 – 16th), and Stoke (68 – 19th). Swansea (18th) and West Brom (20th) conceded the same number as us – 56. Arsenal (51 – 6th), Palace (55 – 11th) and Brighton (54 – 15th) also let in over 50 goals.

 

That places us in joint 11th for the most goals against. If you look take our worst five matches (Liverpool 0-3), Leicester (1-4) Spurs (2-5), Newcastle (0-3) and West Ham (0-3) then 18 (32%) of the goals conceded in the season came from just 5 (15%) of the 38 games played. The average conceded in the 33 other matches is just 1.15 goals per game. Only Man City, Man U, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and Burnley bettered that adjusted rate over the season.

To my mind we have some young defenders that now have some proper PL experience, and will no doubt further improve under Sparky, I can’t see why a major overhaul is needed for in the defence.

 

The real problem lies at the other end of the park. Only Brighton (34), Huddersfield (28), Swansea (28), Stoke (35) and West Brom (31) scored fewer than Saints’ 37, placing us in 15th position. If 5 of the 15 drawn matches had been converted to wins (including Leicester) then we would have finished 9th, if we had also managed to beat Everton the we could have ended up in 8th place.

[GGalpin]

I am not convinced that our defence is as bad as being made out on this forum.

 

Looking at last season, 7 teams shipped more goals than we did - Everton (58 - 8th), Leicester (59 -9th), Bournemouth (61 – 12th), West Ham (68 - 13th), Watford (64 – 14th), Huddersfield (58 – 16th), and Stoke (68 – 19th). Swansea (18th) and West Brom (20th) conceded the same number as us – 56. Arsenal (51 – 6th), Palace (55 – 11th) and Brighton (54 – 15th) also let in over 50 goals.

 

That places us in joint 11th for the most goals against. If you look take our worst five matches (Liverpool 0-3), Leicester (1-4) Spurs (2-5), Newcastle (0-3) and West Ham (0-3) then 18 (32%) of the goals conceded in the season came from just 5 (15%) of the 38 games played. The average conceded in the 33 other matches is just 1.15 goals per game. Only Man City, Man U, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and Burnley bettered that adjusted rate over the season.

To my mind we have some young defenders that now have some proper PL experience, and will no doubt further improve under Sparky, I can’t see why a major overhaul is needed for in the defence.

 

The real problem lies at the other end of the park. Only Brighton (34), Huddersfield (28), Swansea (28), Stoke (35) and West Brom (31) scored fewer than Saints’ 37, placing us in 15th position. If 5 of the 15 drawn matches had been converted to wins (including Leicester) then we would have finished 9th, if we had also managed to beat Everton the we could have ended up in 8th place.

 

It's a fairly decent argument but then the devil is in the detail. Got a feeling we finished top or in the top three for goals conceded from headers on 13; a lot of fans would say we're fairly lightweight in the CB area and that statistic shows that. Add one or two aerially dominant CBs and we should cut at least half of that number out, IMO.

[SFKA South Woodford]

Having seen first hand at Arsenal and at home to Bournemouth which were just two examples, we would concede a lot less goals aerially if the other defenders didn't insist on leaving Cedric alone to guard the back post against players a good two feet taller than him!

[qwertyell]

Having seen first hand at Arsenal and at home to Bournemouth which were just two examples, we would concede a lot less goals aerially if the other defenders didn't insist on leaving Cedric alone to guard the back post against players a good two feet taller than him!

I don't think it's a case of "leaving Cedric alone" to guard the back post - it'd just be weird positioning for a centre back, when facing a cross from the right wing, to completely abdicate the centre (and any forwards that might be lurking there) to become an auxiliary right back.

 

The Arsenal goal you mention was scored by Welbeck, running in from the left wing. The centre back in that situation can't abandon his station (and any forwards that might be lurking there) to go and mark a left winger.

 

Cedric's job is to cover the back post. He just isn't very good at it. Blame it on his height if you like, but many similarly statured full backs seem to cope okay.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

[VectisSaint]

It's a fairly decent argument but then the devil is in the detail. Got a feeling we finished top or in the top three for goals conceded from headers on 13; a lot of fans would say we're fairly lightweight in the CB area and that statistic shows that. Add one or two aerially dominant CBs and we should cut at least half of that number out, IMO.

No idea if your stat is correct, doesn't seem to be recorded anywhere, but its a poor argument to say that it is all down to our CBs lack of height, given that some of those headed goals conceded came from attacking wingers beating Cedric or Bertie. Even if the stat is correct do you really think that halving the number (from 13 to 6/7) would really make much difference? That number would probably be better than any team in the PL so unlikely that any team could achieve it. Bear in mind also that last season we had a big strong CB for at least some of the season (VvD, even if he was a liability with the way he was playing), it didn't stop the headers conceded. Bobsleigh was absolutely correct to say that our defence is not the issue, as I had posted earlier in the thread. Our defence is OK, not the greatest but by no means the worst, and on very few occasions has the defence really cost us. Much more of a problem is at the other end, not just scoring insufficient but the midfield giving the ball away and ex[posing our defence. The number of times we conceded from our own attacking corners was criminal last season, and that's not the fault of the CBs, who are generally in the opposition box scoring or trying to score goals to make up for the lack of ability of our attacking players. Fortunately Stephens, and to a lesser extent Wesley were able to knock a few in last season. The days of big strong tall CBs in the PL are passing and the sooner people recognise this the better. Very few of the top teams play with big strikers now, it is much more important to be able to stop the agile, small strikers now (Aguero, Vardy, etc). Our current CBs are very well suited to the PL of the here and now, tall enough but much more adept on the ball. Don't get me wrong, I still thank we need at least one more CB, probably two, not least because I expect us to utilise 3 CBs for at least some games next season, you can't hope to play that system when you want with only 4 recognised CBs, one of the positions most prone to injuries and suspensions. But. Stephens, Maya, Bednarek and Wesley (if he can cut out the horrible errors he makes due to his lack of concentration) are all more than capable in the PL. It would take a player of great talent to oust any of those, such players exist but they don't play long term for the likes of Southampton. We have been spoilt a bit in the last few seasons with VvD, Toby, etc., the chances of finding players of that quality to replace our current CBs is slim to non-existent.

[GGalpin]

No idea if your stat is correct, doesn't seem to be recorded anywhere, but its a poor argument to say that it is all down to our CBs lack of height, given that some of those headed goals conceded came from attacking wingers beating Cedric or Bertie. Even if the stat is correct do you really think that halving the number (from 13 to 6/7) would really make much difference? That number would probably be better than any team in the PL so unlikely that any team could achieve it. Bear in mind also that last season we had a big strong CB for at least some of the season (VvD, even if he was a liability with the way he was playing), it didn't stop the headers conceded. Bobsleigh was absolutely correct to say that our defence is not the issue, as I had posted earlier in the thread. Our defence is OK, not the greatest but by no means the worst, and on very few occasions has the defence really cost us. Much more of a problem is at the other end, not just scoring insufficient but the midfield giving the ball away and ex[posing our defence. The number of times we conceded from our own attacking corners was criminal last season, and that's not the fault of the CBs, who are generally in the opposition box scoring or trying to score goals to make up for the lack of ability of our attacking players. Fortunately Stephens, and to a lesser extent Wesley were able to knock a few in last season. The days of big strong tall CBs in the PL are passing and the sooner people recognise this the better. Very few of the top teams play with big strikers now, it is much more important to be able to stop the agile, small strikers now (Aguero, Vardy, etc). Our current CBs are very well suited to the PL of the here and now, tall enough but much more adept on the ball. Don't get me wrong, I still thank we need at least one more CB, probably two, not least because I expect us to utilise 3 CBs for at least some games next season, you can't hope to play that system when you want with only 4 recognised CBs, one of the positions most prone to injuries and suspensions. But. Stephens, Maya, Bednarek and Wesley (if he can cut out the horrible errors he makes due to his lack of concentration) are all more than capable in the PL. It would take a player of great talent to oust any of those, such players exist but they don't play long term for the likes of Southampton. We have been spoilt a bit in the last few seasons with VvD, Toby, etc., the chances of finding players of that quality to replace our current CBs is slim to non-existent.

 

I know for a fact we were in the top three in the final three games; whether or not a team or two overtook us I'm not sure. But 13 is still a very high number to be conceding; practically a quarter of our 56 conceded. Pretty high, no?

 

Agree some are down to Bertrand and Cedric especially, but CB is still a weak area of the team and conceding headers is our biggest weakness IMO. You say it wouldn't make a difference, but the headers conceded against Brighton, Huddersfield, Watford, and Burnley x 2 constitutes nine points dropped- add those points and that puts us at least tenth; pretty big difference if you ask me.

 

The point about the strikers faced being much more about their movement and pace, but there's still plenty of strikers who are predominantly target men who we struggle against. As for the last point about not finding CBs I disagree with strongly; I'm sure there are plenty of CBs in our price range who would improve on what we have currently.

[Bananaman]

As e genuine, although probably ignorant, question. Why didn't we make an offer for Martín Cáceres when he was with us. obviously has pedigree and surely an upgrade on Stephens and Gardos.

[qwertyell]

As e genuine, although probably ignorant, question. Why didn't we make an offer for Martín Cáceres when he was with us. obviously has pedigree and surely an upgrade on Stephens and Gardos.

Well, he was with us for half a season and - presumably based on something - not considered better than our available starting options for all bar one game.

 

He's only made 20 starts for Verona since joining them last summer - the majority of them at right back.

 

I'd speculate that we didn't keep him on because A) he wasn't the centre back we needed and B) high wages for a 30 year old squad utility player didn't seem like great business.

 

Obviously in retrospect he might've suited our late season back three, as he's kind of an in between right back and centre back player, but he wouldn't have added the aerial strength or physicality we sorely lacked.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

[scotty]

As e genuine, although probably ignorant, question. Why didn't we make an offer for Martín Cáceres when he was with us. obviously has pedigree and surely an upgrade on Stephens and Gardos.

 

Wasn't he a late notice emergency signing, on big wages? Don't suppose he was ever here as anything more than a stopgap.