JWP Progress

[Dusic]

- Further away from the Saints starting XI than at the start of last season. Barely got a start under Hughes when it really counted and has never been a particularly effective sub.

 

- Further away from the England squad even though Southgate rates him and central midfield is our weakest area

 

- Six full PL seasons now so hardly a young player in terms of experience

 

Does he need a move away to get outside of the comfort zone he has found himself in at Saints or is he just not quite good enough to be a PL regular?

 

IMO after 6 seasons he still doesn't have an obvious position (due mainly to his physical attributes which won't change) which is his main problem.

[benjii]

Not good enough to be a regular starter as a central midfielder.

 

Good enough, just about, to be a regulator starter as a supporting forward, provided you have other players in your team with creativity.

 

In short, a squad player at best.

[Saint IQ]

He's best as a hard working right midfielder that hasn't got pace like Beckham. Would probably be more effective in a 442 than a 4231 or 433

[Suhari]

I struggle to see where he fits in, which is a shame because it always looks like there could be a good player there somewhere. Hoped he would have found a role and made it his own by now.

 

Perhaps he could become a right back...but the lack of pace would be an issue (never affected Jason Dodd though).

[igsey]

Thought he looked great when he came on against City. He had some good games earlier in the season when he'd been told to get forward more (especially vs Watford). I'm still a fan of his but there's no space for passengers, he needs to prove his worth or get used to the bench.

[saintwbu]

I rate him, I think we're normally better when he plays, and he makes Cedric look infinitely better when he plays. He is never going to be a 'wow look at him' type player but I like his contribution.

[saint77]

I struggle to see where he fits in, which is a shame because it always looks like there could be a good player there somewhere. Hoped he would have found a role and made it his own by now.

 

Perhaps he could become a right back...but the lack of pace would be an issue (never affected Jason Dodd though).

 

funny enough i think he could be an excellent right back and yes his pace is a problem for that position however like doddsy jwp is an intelligent player

and could get away with it

[shurlock]

[EkonOkereke]

Average

[doddisalegend]

I've always said he is a squad player that sort of player who can handle a few different roles competently but not really be great at any of them. Useful on the subs bench as a utility player but I wouldn't be overly bothered I he goes to be honest.

[Mosin]

- Further away from the Saints starting XI than at the start of last season. Barely got a start under Hughes when it really counted and has never been a particularly effective sub.

 

- Further away from the England squad even though Southgate rates him and central midfield is our weakest area

 

- Six full PL seasons now so hardly a young player in terms of experience

 

Does he need a move away to get outside of the comfort zone he has found himself in at Saints or is he just not quite good enough to be a PL regular?

 

IMO after 6 seasons he still doesn't have an obvious position (due mainly to his physical attributes which won't change) which is his main problem.

 

 

3 assists ( Same as tadic ) 3 goals ( 3 less than Tadic ) less than half the mins of Tadic, less than half the games as Tadic, saved us points when played which tbf helped us survive, goals and assist that he got won us points when others ( Tadic who u all love so so so much ) couldn't be bothered to turn up...……….

 

 

In what was a very bad season, he was one of the better performers in a extremely bad season even though the manager he played under was rubbish. Tadic free pass, JWP not good enough? double standards.. considering he was the best out field performer against city on last game of season I would think he deservers some leniency just like most of you are doing with Tadic.

[Saint Garrett]

Good player, we've been a better side this season when he's been on the pitch IMO. Will always give his all and certainly has a place in the squad. As others have mentioned though, he has never had a proper position which has meant he's struggled. I have no problem with him as part of a 3 man narrow midfield or as a RM with an attacking full back behind him.

[shurlock]

Wonder what MLG's thoughts on JWP are these days? Still playing the age card?

[John Boy Saint]

3 assists ( Same as tadic ) 3 goals ( 3 less than Tadic ) less than half the mins of Tadic, less than half the games as Tadic, saved us points when played which tbf helped us survive, goals and assist that he got won us points when others ( Tadic who u all love so so so much ) couldn't be bothered to turn up...……….

 

 

In what was a very bad season, he was one of the better performers in a extremely bad season even though the manager he played under was rubbish. Tadic free pass, JWP not good enough? double standards.. considering he was the best out field performer against city on last game of season I would think he deservers some leniency just like most of you are doing with Tadic.

Good summary.

Funnily enough all the knockers (an apt term for some) seem to reside on here and the sheep follow. Sat in the stadium on a match day you never hear a grumble, even from the persistent moaners, when he comes on, in fact you often heard more of a grumble when JWP was on the pitch with Tadic and JWP was subbed when Tadic was clearly the player who was doing chuff all for much of the game.

Last couple of seasons he has improved and become more combative, in the European games, Milan at home in particular I noted that he was getting stuck into players with a bit more bite, and knowing what foriegn players are like for trying to hoodwink the ref, thought jeez he’s going to get booked for that or will do if he keeps that up, but the ref did nothing, I figured that having played so many European internationals every summer, and being an intelligent chap, he had worked out how to winkle the ball away without incurring attention from the ref.

People say if he was any good someone would have been in for him, if you notice only headline players in teams get the attention to be sold to other teams the grafters or glue of the team very rarely get looked at. Funnily enough Bertrand, who many think is our only option at left back, could have gone last summer.........if someone had actually come in for him. So that example being used to emphasise just how rubbish JWP is pretty lame.

 

Ah if only he didn’t come from Portsmouth and his first name was pronounced Ham-ezz!

[S-Clarke]

He wasn't too bad last season, I'm still unsure of his best role though.

 

He's not strong enough to play CM, we're often over-run when he plays in there. Ditto DM.

 

He's not silky enough or quick enough to play behind the striker in an AMC role.

 

He's not quick enough to play as a right winger, he's painfully slow in fact.

 

So, although he has good attributes (good crosser, good passer, good control) these are outweighed by his lack of pace and strength. Where on earth can you play him to make the most of his strenghts, but lessen the exposure of his weaknesses?

[benjii]

 

[doddisalegend]

Good summary.

Funnily enough all the knockers (an apt term for some) seem to reside on here and the sheep follow. Sat in the stadium on a match day you never hear a grumble, even from the persistent moaners, when he comes on, in fact you often heard more of a grumble when JWP was on the pitch with Tadic and JWP was subbed when Tadic was clearly the player who was doing chuff all for much of the game.

Last couple of seasons he has improved and become more combative, in the European games, Milan at home in particular I noted that he was getting stuck into players with a bit more bite, and knowing what foriegn players are like for trying to hoodwink the ref, thought jeez he’s going to get booked for that or will do if he keeps that up, but the ref did nothing, I figured that having played so many European internationals every summer, and being an intelligent chap, he had worked out how to winkle the ball away without incurring attention from the ref.

People say if he was any good someone would have been in for him, if you notice only headline players in teams get the attention to be sold to other teams the grafters or glue of the team very rarely get looked at. Funnily enough Bertrand, who many think is our only option at left back, could have gone last summer.........if someone had actually come in for him. So that example being used to emphasise just how rubbish JWP is pretty lame.

 

Ah if only he didn’t come from Portsmouth and his first name was pronounced Ham-ezz!

 

I'd say that its the exact opposite the one reason he gets a free ride despite being very average is because he is an academy product. If we had brought from abroad and he was called James Wardic-proswic people would be banging on about how he was a poor version of Gaston. Tadic is a far more talented player and always gets grief from our fans.

[benjii]

Good summary.

Funnily enough all the knockers (an apt term for some) seem to reside on here and the sheep follow. Sat in the stadium on a match day you never hear a grumble, even from the persistent moaners, when he comes on, in fact you often heard more of a grumble when JWP was on the pitch with Tadic and JWP was subbed when Tadic was clearly the player who was doing chuff all for much of the game.

Last couple of seasons he has improved and become more combative, in the European games, Milan at home in particular I noted that he was getting stuck into players with a bit more bite, and knowing what foriegn players are like for trying to hoodwink the ref, thought jeez he’s going to get booked for that or will do if he keeps that up, but the ref did nothing, I figured that having played so many European internationals every summer, and being an intelligent chap, he had worked out how to winkle the ball away without incurring attention from the ref.

People say if he was any good someone would have been in for him, if you notice only headline players in teams get the attention to be sold to other teams the grafters or glue of the team very rarely get looked at. Funnily enough Bertrand, who many think is our only option at left back, could have gone last summer.........if someone had actually come in for him. So that example being used to emphasise just how rubbish JWP is pretty lame.

 

Ah if only he didn’t come from Portsmouth and his first name was pronounced Ham-ezz!

 

That's complete bull. If we had signed him he'd be viewed as a massive disappointment. He gets some preferential treatment because he's local.

[John Boy Saint]

Well it’s pretty obvious he is a Marmite player

[Wilf]

For Young England team he looked superb as the number 10 playmaker, centre of midfield using a range of passes to dictate the play, in addition to his superb dead ball skills. I wonder if he will ever be able to step up to do this for Saints?

[S-Clarke]

For Young England team he looked superb as the number 10 playmaker, centre of midfield using a range of passes to dictate the play, in addition to his superb dead ball skills. I wonder if he will ever be able to step up to do this for Saints?

 

I don't think he's got the strength or pace to play there. He looked good with a bunch of kids, but put him up against proper athletes who are full of power and pace and he just gets eaten up.

[simo]

I rate him !

[Mosin]

I'd say that its the exact opposite the one reason he gets a free ride despite being very average is because he is an academy product. If we had brought from abroad and he was called James Wardic-proswic people would be banging on about how he was a poor version of Gaston. Tadic is a far more talented player and always gets grief from our fans.

 

 

In what way? they are different type of players. how many more assists did this amazing Tadic get more than JWP even though he had over double the mins on the pitch than JWP did?

 

After all if we are comparing them to the roles they played in JWP has assisted the same goals and only scored 3 less goals with 4 of Tadics 6 coming after MH took over, During the period of the last manager JWP has been the better player out of the two with a crap manager, now think of a competent manager using JWP to his strength's, JWP will out assist tadic if played same mins going of this seasons form JWP needs half the time per chance created to his counter part king Tadic………..

 

 

If I had to pick one player out of Tadic and JWP for this season alone and based over the course of the season ( and not just the last fews games ). I would take JWP as even though he has had less mins and scored less goals, he has been the far more consistent player in my view.

[John Boy Saint]

I'd say that its the exact opposite the one reason he gets a free ride despite being very average is because he is an academy product. If we had brought from abroad and he was called James Wardic-proswic people would be banging on about how he was a poor version of Gaston. Tadic is a far more talented player and always gets grief from our fans.

Everyone knows Tadic might have a bit more talent than JWP but since Koeman left, for someone viewed as so bloody great he has certainly left that talent somewhere safe for the last 2 seasons, plonker Puel said he would build the team round him, pipe and slippers came out, MoPe had no spine as it turns out Dusan just carries on but gets away with slacking a bit more. New Sheriff rides into town cracks the whip and rules with a rod of iron, Blimey Charlie we suddenly see a glimpse of the original Tadic. Up until just recently anyone with 2 fully operational eyes can see he’s been pretty disappointing and justifiable in copping flack off the majority of fans.

 

Corners - Tadic v JWP = JWP

Freekicks - Tadic v JWP = JWP

Defending Tadic v JWP = JWP

Given the choice of taker of a Penalty Tadic or JWP = JWP

If you can say hand on heart say that you have 100% confidence in Tadic taking a penalty then you have truly bought the Emperors new clothes!

[doddisalegend]

Everyone knows Tadic might have a bit more talent than JWP but since Koeman left, for someone viewed as so bloody great he has certainly left that talent somewhere safe for the last 2 seasons, plonker Puel said he would build the team round him, pipe and slippers came out, MoPe had no spine as it turns out Dusan just carries on but gets away with slacking a bit more. New Sheriff rides into town cracks the whip and rules with a rod of iron, Blimey Charlie we suddenly see a glimpse of the original Tadic. Up until just recently anyone with 2 fully operational eyes can see he’s been pretty disappointing and justifiable in copping flack off the majority of fans.

 

Corners - Tadic v JWP = JWP

Freekicks - Tadic v JWP = JWP

Defending Tadic v JWP = JWP

Given the choice of taker of a Penalty Tadic or JWP = JWP

If you can say hand on heart say that you have 100% confidence in Tadic taking a penalty then you have truly bought the Emperors new clothes!

 

and yet every manager we've had since Koeman prefers to play Tadic over JWP..

[doddisalegend]

In what way? they are different type of players. how many more assists did this amazing Tadic get more than JWP even though he had over double the mins on the pitch than JWP did?

 

After all if we are comparing them to the roles they played in JWP has assisted the same goals and only scored 3 less goals with 4 of Tadics 6 coming after MH took over, During the period of the last manager JWP has been the better player out of the two with a crap manager, now think of a competent manager using JWP to his strength's, JWP will out assist tadic if played same mins going of this seasons form JWP needs half the time per chance created to his counter part king Tadic………..

 

 

If I had to pick one player out of Tadic and JWP for this season alone and based over the course of the season ( and not just the last fews games ). I would take JWP as even though he has had less mins and scored less goals, he has been the far more consistent player in my view.

 

You don't think that tells you something about how 4 different managers over the last few season view the two players then..

Edited 25 May, 2018 by doddisalegend

[Marsdinho]

I said it years ago, and Ill say it again...

 

JWP progress was held up by our insistence of playing Steve Davis.

[benjii]

Everyone knows Tadic might have a bit more talent than JWP but since Koeman left, for someone viewed as so bloody great he has certainly left that talent somewhere safe for the last 2 seasons, plonker Puel said he would build the team round him, pipe and slippers came out, MoPe had no spine as it turns out Dusan just carries on but gets away with slacking a bit more. New Sheriff rides into town cracks the whip and rules with a rod of iron, Blimey Charlie we suddenly see a glimpse of the original Tadic. Up until just recently anyone with 2 fully operational eyes can see he’s been pretty disappointing and justifiable in copping flack off the majority of fans.

 

Corners - Tadic v JWP = JWP

Freekicks - Tadic v JWP = JWP

Defending Tadic v JWP = JWP

Given the choice of taker of a Penalty Tadic or JWP = JWP

If you can say hand on heart say that you have 100% confidence in Tadic taking a penalty then you have truly bought the Emperors new clothes!

 

Corners are a pretty insignificant part of the game. JWP's corners look good but do we often score from them? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the stats of converting corners whether its JWP or Tadic or Bertrand or Davis or whoever taking them were not remotely significant in favour of any of them.

 

Likewise, how many free-kicks has he scored? 3? I can't be bothered to check but he doesn't exactly bang them in. He might have a reasonably good ratio but, again, it's not very significant in terms of contribution over a season.

 

Defending. His defending is ok; he tries. I don't think there's much in it. He hasn't got any recovery pace and isn't very strong in the tackle. I know who I would rather have receiving the ball under pressure when we're under the cosh and it's not JWP.

 

Penalties - yep, Tadic's penalties are bizarre. I'd sooner have JWP. But I'd sooner have Austin than either.

 

The fact is that when Tadic plays well he is capable of influencing and winning matches at PL level. JWP is just an average supporting cast member.

[Dusic]

This shouldn't be about Tadic but if it is then in both no10 and wide positions I would pick Tadic every day of the week ahead of JWP.

 

What JWP should be asling himself is why he cannot get a game in central midfield.

[benjii]

One of the very few to still play alright under Pellegrino. Harder to fit him into the 3-4-3 formation though.

 

Still a great option and with some better attacking players around him, he'll do well.

 

Not sure what fans expect him to be. Romeu, Hojbjerg, Lemina are all good players who have really poor patches last season. If JWP plays in a midfield 3, or on the right of midfield, he'll continue to do well.

 

If he's used as a central midfielder then fans expect Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Lemina levels of quality. Even Jack Cork would do.

 

If he's used as an attacking player then fans expect Tadic, Lallana, Mane, levels of quality. Even Redmond would do.

[St Marco]

Interesting stat. JWP has played more PL games than Harry Kane.

[shurlock]

Interesting stat. JWP has played more PL games than Harry Kane.

 

And has accomplished a fraction of what Kane has.

 

The appearances argument is always a favourite of JWP truthers (I'm not implying you're making it).

[St Marco]

And has accomplished a fraction of what Kane has.

 

The appearances argument is always a favourite of JWP truthers (I'm not implying you're making it).

 

I am not a fan of JWP so not a truther. He seems a nice enough person but I think in a way his time is up and its time to give one of the other youngsters a chance. Tella and Slattery come to mind. As people have alluded above the problem with JWP is he isn't a master of a position. There are far better defence minded players and far better attacking minded players. He is 24 in 5 months so he isn't exactly an un-experienced youngster anymore.

But the point I was making with the stat was for someone with nearly 200 pl games he hasn't really done anything. A good game here or there. But I think we all know he will never be a nailed on starter here. As I said I think its time to start giving the other youngsters a chance.

[qwertyell]

It's six managers in a row and counting who have struggled to consistently find a place or a role for Ward-Prowse in their starting XI. You can't say he hasn't been given a chance to lock down his position.

 

Maybe it's an amazing coincidence. Maybe all those managers are wrong. Or prejudiced against Tintin hair. Or perhaps the simple reality is he's just not that special.

 

Put it this way, if we sold him this summer, what exactly have we lost? One corner taking option.

 

He's a central midfielder with none of the physical attributes to play there. He might as well be a four foot goalkeeper who can't jump - but takes a great goal kick.

 

He tries pretty hard (although tracking runners is another weakness), but I don't see him in our best XI - at a time when our team is as devoid of quality as at any point since we returned to the Premier League.

 

I don't think Harry Reed's going to make it either, but I do wonder what might've been if we'd given him the minutes and opportunities Ward-Prowse has had to develop instead.

 

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[simo]

Interesting stat. JWP has played more PL games than Harry Kane.

 

How many minutes more ?

[ericofarabia]

Wow ..... none of you c()ckwombles would make a Football Commentator ..... sorry if I missed any, but 36 Replies in and not one person has rolled out the term "Dead Ball Specialist" which EVERY commentator uses, as if it is his Middle Name ...

 

Up steps James Dead Ball Specialist Ward Prowse.

[LGTL]

He's a skate. Never forgive, never forget.

[Micky]

Wow ..... none of you c()ckwombles would make a Football Commentator ..... sorry if I missed any, but 36 Replies in and not one person has rolled out the term "Dead Ball Specialist" which EVERY commentator uses, as if it is his Middle Name ...

 

Up steps James Dead Ball Specialist Ward Prowse.

 

To be fair - his dead ball delivery is very good from both free kicks and corners, his technique is better than any others that we have. Unfortunately he does not score enough, but you cannot deny his ball into the box is better than anybody else's in our side.

[Suhari]

If he played for another EPL club and we signed him today, would any of us be excited?

[benjii]

To be fair - his dead ball delivery is very good from both free kicks and corners, his technique is better than any others that we have. Unfortunately he does not score enough, but you cannot deny his ball into the box is better than anybody else's in our side.

 

It looks "better". Is it any more effective than floating one to the back post?

[Micky]

It looks "better". Is it any more effective than floating one to the back post?

 

Disagree there Benji. It IS better, gets good whip and action on the ball and generally delivers to good areas - especially from corners. Agree with others though, other areas of his game are lacking and he does seem to go missing in games sometimes. As somebody else said - probably a bench player.

[qwertyell]

To be fair - his dead ball delivery is very good from both free kicks and corners, his technique is better than any others that we have. Unfortunately he does not score enough, but you cannot deny his ball into the box is better than anybody else's in our side.

I think Bertrand takes a very decent inswinger.

 

Though that will be a moot point after a few more weeks of this transfer window, I'm sure.

 

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[Hodgey]

still think he’ll end up a good PL players - despite issues with pace and strength. Reminds me a bit of Matt Oakley - who seemed to progress slowly but ended up a decent player. What do people want ? Is the suggestion we sell him and get someone else ? Can’t really see us getting an upgrade if son- in fact the opposite. Personally think he is a good right midfielder / emergency right back.

[SaintSteve]

I said it years ago, and Ill say it again...

 

JWP progress was held up by our insistence of playing Steve Davis.

 

That’s because Davis is light years better..JWP is simply not a premier league player

[Marsdinho]

That’s because Davis is light years better..JWP is simply not a premier league player

 

Davis' stats just dont back up what you are saying.

[John Boy Saint]

It looks "better". Is it any more effective than floating one to the goalkeeper?

There I corrected it for you

 

 

we had had a game latter part of the season where we had a corner and for a moment all the players looked stood with a look of “oh who’s taking this?!” not long after we got another and they did it again.

People mentioned Bertrand’s corners which last season were JWP style and damn good, there was no way Pellegrino was going to let Ryan go to a point furthest away from his defencive position.

It is pretty pants that we only have one player capable of putting a ball into the box with pace and menace 9 times out of 10.

[austsaint]

There I corrected it for you

 

 

we had had a game latter part of the season where we had a corner and for a moment all the players looked stood with a look of “oh who’s taking this?!” not long after we got another and they did it again.

People mentioned Bertrand’s corners which last season were JWP style and damn good, there was no way Pellegrino was going to let Ryan go to a point furthest away from his defencive position.

It is pretty pants that we only have one player capable of putting a ball into the box with pace and menace 9 times out of 10.

 

Look, JWP takes a pretty good corner and free kick; not many would argue with that. Is that enough to justify his place in the team? I say no, because there just isn't enough impact in the rest of his game - in attack or defence. Expectations and hype have always been out of whack with this lad, and that observation gets clearer as every season goes by.

[haddock22]

How many people get excited when he comes on as a sub.no one

[bpsaint]

Average squad player - people used to say he was young and would flourish with age but we’re still waiting.

 

I’d say the most telling thing about how good he is or isn’t is that fact that despite all of his ‘dead ball specialist’ abilities, and relative success with junior England teams, no other Premier League club have shown any interest in him whilst his peers have been snapped up.

[Mosin]

How many people get excited when he comes on as a sub.no one

 

 

I am disappointed when he isn't on the pitch every time we get a free kick or corner, cause no one else seems to be able to put a decent ball in, yes we don't score many goals from them, but if the ball into the box is good and no one gets on the end of it, it cant be the person taking it if he did his job and the ball in is a good one, its up to the players in the box to get on the end of it and get it in the net, its this part we suck at, how can that be blamed on JWP?, if any thing its the players fault for not getting on the end of it, and its the recent managers faults too ( As both RK and MP had JWP playing pretty well ) the last two have made every one look bad...….

 

 

But even so, this thing ppl have about his pace, I can name a English RM who was probably the best player for England in his prime and yet was also the slowest on the team, yet this dude is labelled a legend in the game, Named David Beckham, yes JWP isn't as good as Beckham, but why do we not use his talents the same way managers did when David Beckham played at united and Real Madrid?, he never took any one on, never beat a man, yet was labelled a great....

 

 

At the end of the day, JWP managed just 1717 mins for us this season, manged 3 assists and 3 goals, and is the joint top assists out of all are attacking mids, yet out of all of them, he spent the least time on the pitch. BONKERS!!!! your all BONKERS!!!!!!!!!