The Les Reed End of Season Thread

[St Chalet]

Thought we'd revisit the topic, have to start a new thread for new poll.

[EkonOkereke]

I think he needs to go. Seems a poison chalice.

 

Poor old Les Misérables

[SuperSAINT]

I feel like we don't exactly know the truth of what's going on.

[Heisenberg]

Thanks St C.

 

Out for me (obviously)

 

Club desperately needs some fresh ideas and ambition.

[St Chalet]

Les running at approval ratings less than Trump. I personally voted stay but with clipped wings.

[Pamplemousse]

Go, it's time for a change.

[S-Clarke]

I feel like we don't exactly know the truth of what's going on.

 

This is very true, and this is the same at all workings at the club. And why I'm not handing over any of my money until there is a bit more clarity over what we're trying to do.

[red&white56]

I feel like we don't exactly know the truth of what's going on.

 

+1, and for this reason I'll abstain

[Pamplemousse]

I think it was shameful that he refused to speak to the local media when things were getting tough. He was perfectly happy to give interview when things were going well, but obviously didn't want to face up to answering tough questions. Very poor from him.

[SuperSAINT]

This is very true, and this is the same at all workings at the club. And why I'm not handing over any of my money until there is a bit more clarity over what we're trying to do.

 

+1, and for this reason I'll abstain

 

Yeah, I just feel like we don't know the whole truth. Maybe he really is like a Sith Lord in the board room. Maybe he's not. Maybe they've just had a bad couple of windows but the next ones will be better.

 

It's so difficult to balance up. I mean, Hughes' last set of transfers at Stoke weren't exactly stunning.

 

Overall, I don't have an issue with us trying to keep VvD. The biggest issue that I have with us lately is our "January centre-back roulette" game we have played for the last couple of Winter windows.

[Saint Albert]

There have been a few missteps over the last few seasons and quite a few raging cock ups. I’ll list the raging cock ups as...

 

- Replacing Koeman with Puel. I’ll be fascinated to see how Pellegrini gets on at W.Ham assuming they get him because I was hoping Les would go for him after Koeman went to the dugout pioneers;

 

- Failing to replace Fonte after he left during the January transfer window, a balls-up of such significant degree that the club had to dabble in the free-agent market;

 

- Replacing Puel with the out-of-his depth, deer-in-the-headlights, morale-killing, tactically inept Mauricio Pellegrino. Puel had many faults including an overly conservative style of play, and he may have lost the changing room but Pellegrino was far, far worse;

 

- Not firing Pellegrino at any point before the January transfer window when it was obvious he was failing and the team were in huge trouble;

 

- Failing to recognize and act on the crisis that the team were in, including not bringing adequate reinforcements in the January transfer window window, which when combined with keeping Pellegrino resulted in a near run in with relegation. It remains to be seen if Carrillo will work out after getting a full pre-season under his belt and settling in more, but right now it looks like the club overpaid massively for another non goal-scoring striker, mainly because of his links to an obviously inadequate, lame-duck, failing manager. His acquisition was certainly of no help in the context of this season’s relegation struggle;

 

- I also find the stories of Reed falling out with various individuals at he club to be a bit of a worry. I suppose we can’t tell for sure if they’re true. I also don’t particularly respect the way he’s hidden from the media, instead of facing the music.

 

These are just the major errors that I can think of. The team’s efforts in the transfer market have been patchy over the past few years, as well. The club should take a close look at Les Reed and his role during the club’s two years of decline. We almost got relegated. It would be crazy not to examine the reasons for this, which include Les Reed.

[beatlesaint]

Yeah, I just feel like we don't know the whole truth. Maybe he really is like a Sith Lord in the board room. Maybe he's not. Maybe they've just had a bad couple of windows but the next ones will be better.

 

It's so difficult to balance up. I mean, Hughes' last set of transfers at Stoke weren't exactly stunning.

 

Overall, I don't have an issue with us trying to keep VvD. The biggest issue that I have with us lately is our "January centre-back roulette" game we have played for the last couple of Winter windows.

 

I keep seeing this criticism of Hughes last set of transfers at Stoke but do we know they were solely his choices or do they operate a board/selection panel like we appear to ?

[St Marco]

Don't care if we know the truth or whatever.

Has he got manager appointments right over last 2 seasons? No.

Has he got the recruitment right over last 2 seasons? No.

Is the academy still doing well? No.

Did we need to spend £20m on a back up striker? No.

 

Regardless of what he did in the past his last 24 months have been a disaster. Time to go.

[beatlesaint]

There have been a few missteps over the last few seasons and quite a few raging cock ups. I’ll list the raging cock ups as...

 

- Replacing Koeman with Puel. I’ll be fascinated to see how Pellegrini gets on at W.Ham assuming they get him because I was hoping Les would go for him after Koeman went to the dugout pioneers;

 

- Failing to replace Fonte after he left during the January transfer window, a balls-up of such significant degree that the club had to dabble in the free-agent market;

 

- Replacing Puel with the out-of-his depth, deer-in-the-headlights, morale-killing, tactically inept Mauricio Pellegrino. Puel had many faults including an overly conservative style of play, and he may have lost the changing room but Pellegrino was far, far worse;

 

- Not firing Pellegrino at any point before the January transfer window when it was obvious he was failing and the team were in huge trouble;

 

- Failing to recognize and act on the crisis that the team were in, including not bringing adequate reinforcements in the January transfer window window, which when combined with keeping Pellegrino resulted in a near run in with relegation. It remains to be seen if Carrillo will work out after getting a full pre-season under his belt and settling in more, but right now it looks like the club overpaid massively for another non goal-scoring striker, mainly because of his links to an obviously inadequate, lame-duck, failing manager. His acquisition was certainly of no help in the context of this season’s relegation struggle;

 

- I also find the stories of Reed falling out with various individuals at he club to be a bit of a worry. I suppose we can’t tell for sure if they’re true. I also don’t particularly respect the way he’s hidden from the media, instead of facing the music.

 

These are just the major errors that I can think of. The team’s efforts in the transfer market have been patchy over the past few years, as well. The club should take a close look at Les Reed and his role during the club’s two years of decline. We almost got relegated. It would be crazy not to examine the reasons for this, which include Les Reed.

 

Agree with all that

[SuperSAINT]

I keep seeing this criticism of Hughes last set of transfers at Stoke but do we know they were solely his choices or do they operate a board/selection panel like we appear to ?

 

I believe Stoke run a similar set-up to us. There was talk that Hughes really pushed for Wimmer from Spurs as well as Berahino.

 

But, no, we don't know the truth of that either.

[Stud mark of doom]

Did someone say Lexit?

[Saint Ian]

There have been a few missteps over the last few seasons and quite a few raging cock ups. I’ll list the raging cock ups as...

 

- Replacing Koeman with Puel. I’ll be fascinated to see how Pellegrini gets on at W.Ham assuming they get him because I was hoping Les would go for him after Koeman went to the dugout pioneers;

 

- Failing to replace Fonte after he left during the January transfer window, a balls-up of such significant degree that the club had to dabble in the free-agent market;

 

- Replacing Puel with the out-of-his depth, deer-in-the-headlights, morale-killing, tactically inept Mauricio Pellegrino. Puel had many faults including an overly conservative style of play, and he may have lost the changing room but Pellegrino was far, far worse;

 

- Not firing Pellegrino at any point before the January transfer window when it was obvious he was failing and the team were in huge trouble;

 

- Failing to recognize and act on the crisis that the team were in, including not bringing adequate reinforcements in the January transfer window window, which when combined with keeping Pellegrino resulted in a near run in with relegation. It remains to be seen if Carrillo will work out after getting a full pre-season under his belt and settling in more, but right now it looks like the club overpaid massively for another non goal-scoring striker, mainly because of his links to an obviously inadequate, lame-duck, failing manager. His acquisition was certainly of no help in the context of this season’s relegation struggle;

 

- I also find the stories of Reed falling out with various individuals at he club to be a bit of a worry. I suppose we can’t tell for sure if they’re true. I also don’t particularly respect the way he’s hidden from the media, instead of facing the music.

 

These are just the major errors that I can think of. The team’s efforts in the transfer market have been patchy over the past few years, as well. The club should take a close look at Les Reed and his role during the club’s two years of decline. We almost got relegated. It would be crazy not to examine the reasons for this, which include Les Reed.

 

Agree entirely Albert. All very good points well made.

[Saint Benali]

Could be 100% want him out, still wouldn't make a difference. He answers only to himself.

 

[Baird of the land]

He either stays as is or we replace him with someone in same role with similar influence.

Last thing i would want is a lame duck director of football & transfer committee power being shifted towards manager, especially one with as poor a record in the transfer market as Hughes.

[John Boy Saint]

I keep seeing this criticism of Hughes last set of transfers at Stoke but do we know they were solely his choices or do they operate a board/selection panel like we appear to ?

As I mentioned on the Hughes thread, I read that as well as Lambert going the Director of Football or whatever they call him up there, is also heading towards the door with Wimmer Berahino and A N other being his call not Sparky.

[mrfahaji]

Voted 'Go'. But that doesn't mean I want an overhaul of our structure, just the people operating within it.

 

Reed strikes me as someone who thinks he's really smart, but isn't.

[Foxstone]

As the so called "DOF", one can reasonably assume that it is his philosophy that has resulted in us playing such durge, boring football over the past couple of seasons and getting in completely unsuitable managers to supposedly "coach" his strategy.

 

We all now how well that went... One can only assume he wanted Sparky to continue with his revolutionary brand of football and Sparky is quite rightly telling him to get Stuffed.

 

Therefore lance the boil - Les must Go !

[qwertyell]

Did I imagine it, or was there a story going around that, during the most crucial January transfer window (which was a disaster) since the club returned to the top flight, Les decided instead to take time off to go on a self-promotional speaking tour?

 

Frankly, anyone remotely connected to January's inept dealings, where we managed to weaken the side, backed a lame duck manager, and spaffed £20m on someone who couldn't make the subs bench, should be out on their ear.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

[Miltonaggro]

At least this new poll gives us a chance to ‘out’ Leslie’s friends and family posting on the message board. Time for Bunsen to face the finale I’m afraid. Nice villa in Marbella in comfortable retirement - I’m sure he won’t mind some of the more committed fluffers from the SFC fanbase popping in for a glass of Rose if they miss him too much.

[Badger]

Initial thought was to vote "go", but have reduced this to a reduce influence, perhaps dealing with the issues he was initially brought in for, administering the Academy, and ordering the cones.

 

But nowhere near the first team, and on a significant £cut.

 

Same goes for Ross Wilson also.

 

Only redeeming feature of these two, is relying on Gao's knowledge to recruit anyone better.

[CB Fry]

I voted go. Middle way sounds like a bit of a fudge. He's had his time and think sensible to move on.

[tobes8]

Time to go.... hasn’t offered anything and seems totally out of touch. He is happy to lord it when going well but hides when it isn’t. Lots of errors and fan confidence isn’t there. Bye bye... I’m quite happy to drive him to his new appointment within reason

[Dusic]

Stay - its a big summer for Saints and there isn't anyone else at the club with Reed's knowledge.

 

Give him a chance to show he has taken on board the lessons from the last two summers...

 

Last thing we need is major upheaval in the first summer for a while that has potential to not be major change.

[SuperSAINT]

Stay - its a big summer for Saints and there isn't anyone else at the club with Reed's knowledge.

 

Give him a chance to show he has taken on board the lessons from the last two summers...

 

Last thing we need is major upheaval in the first summer for a while that has potential to not be major change.

 

I would say these are wise words.

[davefizzy14]

Stay - its a big summer for Saints and there isn't anyone else at the club with Reed's knowledge.

 

Give him a chance to show he has taken on board the lessons from the last two summers...

 

Last thing we need is major upheaval in the first summer for a while that has potential to not be major change.

 

Agreed 100% with this

[saint1977]

I voted go in the end having toyed with stay but reduced role.

 

Saints Albert gave an excellent summary above thatt summarises my and judging by the reactions, many posters' views on the subject. Nothing wrong with sacking Puel, the football was atrocious but replace with Pellegrino? Then retain him after the Leicester debacle until March?!!

 

The last two January windows in particular have been comedy slapstick - not replacing Fonte and then VVD beggars belief. As someone has posted, Les seemed to allegedly find the time to be part of a speaking series or tour but not to sign a CB. To have signed a £19m pantomime horse striker when we were promised we'd strengthen the squad significantly, that's sackable stuff.

 

If I felt Les could change, then I'd have gone for the remit clip option as Gao worries me majorly. However, if you look at how he seemed to control Puel and MP, that's not someone who can change behaviour or stop being a control freak so you have to part company. I very much doubt in retrospect if the Redmond quote was Claude, he said it but I reckon Les was pushing it. Claude actually seemed to prove less of a yes-man than Les thought but too late, damage was done with the squad and boardroom. Les finally got his totally compliant yes-man in the summer - and look what happened. Mark Hughes has soon seen a toxic influence - let's hope it is dealt with this time after 24 poor months of decision-making, glacial inertia and staggering blunders.

[Saint Benali]

Stay - its a big summer for Saints and there isn't anyone else at the club with Reed's knowledge.

 

Give him a chance to show he has taken on board the lessons from the last two summers...

 

Last thing we need is major upheaval in the first summer for a while that has potential to not be major change.

 

Disagree strongly.

 

We have had upheaval nearly every summer Reed has been here. We have had three managers in the last 12 months. That shows he can't get the manager position right.

We have had terrible recruitment over the last two years confounded with us spending £20m on a back up striker that we did not need. That money should have gone elsewhere. Showing he can't get the recruitment right.

He abandoned the successful style of football we had and went for slow, ultra boring/defensive style of football that has seen us win a grand total of 19 of our last 76 games.

 

He has been on the downhill slope for quite sometime and I see no evidence he is learning from his mistakes. If he had a performance review at any company based on his last 24 months he would be out. But he won't be out because he answers to himself.

Reed is not the only person involved with football. There will be thousands of people who would want his job. We escaped going down by the skin of our teeth this season and for me that is why big change is needed. If we continue in the same way we have the club will continue to struggle. The past 2 seasons has shown he is no longer up to the job and quite frankly doesn't even deserve to have this job based off of that.

The squad needs and overhaul, the staff needs an overhaul, the board needs an overhaul. Now is the best time to do that imo.

[Badger]

Stay - its a big summer for Saints and there isn't anyone else at the club with Reed's knowledge.

 

Give him a chance to show he has taken on board the lessons from the last two summers...

 

Last thing we need is major upheaval in the first summer for a while that has potential to not be major change.

 

I would say these are wise words.

 

Wise yes, but during this season I have felt that 'major change' of the playing squad has been called for. Not convinced that Reed/Wilson should be entrusted with it, and wouldn't want to allow Hughes a licence to recruit solely as he sees fit.

[JRM]

He has to stay in some capacity for continuity, plus his son's agent business is completely reliant on signing up our academy players.

 

I noticed an earlier poster recommended he retire to Spain, I'm sure he already has a comfortable pension pot built up with commission he made from all our sales to Liverpool. Too much of a coincidence for us to sell 6 players between two Premier league clubs in such a short period of time.

[DuncanRG]

Stay and do better.

[Wade Garrett]

Decisions he's made in the last couple of years suggests to me he is making decisions based on what's best for him, rather than the club. Subservient manager's and Ross Wilson being examples of this.

 

His son's agency business is seemingly a whole can of worms.

 

For me, he has to go. Get Christian Purslow in as Chief Exec to run the club.

[Saint_Ash]

Im sure there are people out there that are/have been in the football industry and know what to do with regards to being a DoF at Saints. He has overseen a great rise to the premier league but he has plateaued now and holds too much power on the face of it and too many big mistakes are happening. He has to go and we need a DoF with different ideas.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Major upheavals are rarely a good thing for football clubs. Continuity is.

 

I like Les - quietly gets on with his job behind the scenes without a big football ego. What would I have done differently? i probably would have listened to the senior players when they wanted Puel out. I would have panicked a bit earlier with Pellegrino but I get that Pellegrino was a nice guy and he wanted to give him more time. Signing the Argentinian was a mistake but he still might cut it. I don't think there were any players we have sold that we could have persuaded to stay. He was probably right about Koeman - it never works when the players know the manger is leaving.

 

So hopefully he will be a little wiser and we can have a good season next season - my definition of a good season is not the same as the more ambitious on here of course!

[IOWSaintDaz]

Wish he'd just p!ss off and take Ralph with him too

[Saint_Ash]

Saints have said in the past that people at the club are just one part of a machine that should be replaceable and the machine continues to work. Or some bullshlt like that. The same should apply to Les, he shouldn't be allowed to make himself indispensable.

[Saint86]

Thank you for the poll.

 

Obviously an out for me. Has been the case since that first summer and the lies over first team players being sold. transfer window closed. first team sold. rinse repeat for the next two summers.

 

But not just that, losing Toby, losing Koeman, fiasco's over key players like Fonte and tarnishing every single leaving players rep with the fans through negative PR (except Rickie - even les knows some limits).

 

The 2 year nosedive since we finished 6th. Let alone the fact that they were quite happy to slate Cortese's financial operating of the club, and yet NC's last 6 months show the first operating profits ignoring player sales....

 

The man simply has to go. If he ever had it, he's now certainly lost it. And the club needs to move forward under a fresher approach. Yet even after the last 4 transfer windows and two disastrous manager appointments he is trying to stop Hughes getting the job....

 

Also please can people stop crediting him with "over seeing our rise from league 1" - its either Cortese's legacy and his apparent mess - or Les Reeds.... and we all know damn well that everything pre koeman (who he still fell out with and dumped when he realised he could get paid...) was not Les Reed's doing. He wasn't even at the club when the core of our double promotion winning side was signed ffs.

[Nordic Saint]

Stay and do better.

 

He's 66 this year, he is not keeping himself in good shape. In fact, for someone involved in a professional sport, he's setting a very poor example. With the facilities at hsi disposal he could at least make an effort. He appears lazy and set in his ways. A lot of what's happened at the club recently suggests there has been an air of lethargy and stagnation about the place.

 

His mental and physical energy levels are clearly in decline. He's not going to do any better. I know you are a big fan of his, Duncan, but his best days are clearly behind him. It's time for someone sharper and younger, with more energy and enthusiasm, to take over.

[badgerx16]

I voted for him to go, mainly because I think he has lost the plot in terms of delivering his 'vision' and strategic plan for the club. He oversaw the appointment of CP, probably an act of desperation after dithering for several weeks, who whilst he is a competent manager has a preferred style of play that is at odds with Les's apparent aspiration. He then replaced him with MoPe, who despite the uplifting BS published on his appointment hasn't a clue as to how to set up a Subbuteo team, let alone a real one that can at least attempt to play attacking football. He compounded this by refusing to act early enough to remedy his error, whether through vanity or mule-headed, stubborn, heel dragging. It was a compound of his errors, and refusal to acknowledge or act on them, that dragged us to the edge of the abyss. It may be that cutting some of his empire away from him might benefit the club as a whole, but would he accept a diminished position after having been effective overlord for the last few seasons ?

Edited 21 May, 2018 by badgerx16

[suewhistle]

Agree entirely Albert. All very good points well made.

 

Yes, I also can't disagree with any of what Saint Albert says. His lack of any public announcement to the fans also is a negative point, although after his comments about Pellegrino when he was recruited perhaps just as well.

[Saint Fan CaM]

The failings of the footballing side of the business have already been said and for that reason, a “just stay” is not appropriate in the slightest. In many other business arena’s if a Board member or Director fails so spectacularly, they will be ‘asked’ to leave immediately...no question of a reduced role which would display top management weakness of the highest order.

 

So that leaves us with simply go and this seems the most appropriate course of action. Of course that’s not what will happen, because Les has ingratiated himself with Kat and so with the Goa family. Kruger has all but said Les will persist and so this poll is somewhat mute. However, as previously said, if Les were to go, what are the odds of the club screwing up the appointment of a replacement? Sometimes it’s better the devil you know?

[Heisenberg]

8% that are a bit mental or trolling

 

28% siting on the fence

 

64% smart and handsome

[SFC Forever]

Choosing a manager that is not up to the job is one thing.

Not replacing him early enough to be able to keep the bus heading forward is another.

 

Just about the only person that didn't see how badly MP was doing in this country was Les. When the players are unhappy as well as the fans there is obviously something wrong.

 

He must go and if things don't change for the better then so to must Ralph.

[Baird of the land]

I keep seeing this criticism of Hughes last set of transfers at Stoke but do we know they were solely his choices or do they operate a board/selection panel like we appear to ?

 

And his awful transfer record at QPR or with Mega money at City

His record at transfers at stoke isn't just bad over one window its genuinely poor over his entire time there.

[aintforever]

And his awful transfer record at QPR or with Mega money at City

His record at transfers at stoke isn't just bad over one window its genuinely poor over his entire time there.

 

Must be a genius to get 3 top ten finishes will such **** players then? That’s Stoke’s highest league position since the 1970’s three seasons on the bounce.

[Simon3737]

Initial thought was to vote "go", but have reduced this to a reduce influence, perhaps dealing with the issues he was initially brought in for, administering the Academy, and ordering the cones.

 

But nowhere near the first team, and on a significant £cut.

 

Same goes for Ross Wilson also.

 

Only redeeming feature of these two, is relying on Gao's knowledge to recruit anyone better.

 

The Academy got relegated a year ago! If the Southampton Way means anything, it means Academy success. Don’t leave it to Les as a consolation prize.

 

Les did great for a few years until Koeman left/was pushed, but 2 years of failure since then as he started believing his own hype (just like Wenger over the last 12 years).

 

I actually think Les won’t be interested in staying on in a reduced role. He won’t want to work with Hughes and Hughes won’t work with Les.

 

Les wants a European technical tracksuit manager who lets Les decide the squad and style of play. The Board clearly decided to reject that when they picked Hughes. I find it hard to believe Les was enthusiastic about the collective decision.