The World Cup Thread

[stknowle]

Really enjoyed this World Cup and it's been great to get to the semi's but, let's face it, we are still the same old England that can't beat anyone that's really any good. If we'd have faced anyone in that category in the 'round of 16' we'd have gone out at that stage.

 

Still think the fact that they are all young offers hope of improvement though and maybe becoming capable of beating good teams in the future. Pickford, Stones, McGuire, Trippier, RLC, Lingard, Kane all have the ability and should get better for this experience.

[CB Fry]

And I think you're being terribly arrogant to dismiss Japan and suggest we'd have sailed past them to play Brazil.

 

Given that Belgium barely scraped past Japan (with the help of a dodgy linesman's decision over a non-existent foul on Kompany that would otherwise have probably led to Japan scoring a third when 2-0 up) yet handily beat England without much effort, I think that Japan would have had a better than even chance of beating us.

 

Basically this is the same argument I was using when people were talking about easy draws and how we should throw the Belgium game to get us a route to the final before anyone even knew who was going to qualify from that other group. Sweden had just given Germany a hell of a game, had knocked out Holland and Italy. Colombia had recently beaten France.

 

Thanks for making it for me. Cheers.

Edited 14 July, 2018 by CB Fry

[Dark Munster]

It's coming home.

[SNSUN]

Won 3 games (Tunisia just, a poor Panama and a blunt-in-attack Sweden), lost 3 games (Belgium twice and Croatia aet) and drew once against Columbia. (Winning on penalties.) Ok that’s being petty but we’ve had a 50% win ratio and come 4th. It’s been great for England to do well this tournament and see the country somewhat united behind it, and it’s been good for the economy, but let’s be honest, there’s a long way to go to make this team good enough to win trophies.

 

There have been good points to it, some players cementing their positions like Trippier, Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Kane and I have more faith in Southgate than I did, but we definitely got lucky with the group and the lay of fixtures.

 

Enjoyed the tournament though despite my newborn little girl taking up my entire time through it but I’m looking forward to getting back to domestic matters.

[Danbert]

W3 L3 D1 - not actually that brilliant really. Bizarre fixtures gave us an easy ride but England were still indifferent at best.

[benjii]

Won 3 games (Tunisia just, a poor Panama and a blunt-in-attack Sweden), lost 3 games (Belgium twice and Croatia aet) and drew once against Columbia. (Winning on penalties.) Ok that’s being petty but we’ve had a 50% win ratio and come 4th. It’s been great for England to do well this tournament and see the country somewhat united behind it, and it’s been good for the economy, but let’s be honest, there’s a long way to go to make this team good enough to win trophies.

 

There have been good points to it, some players cementing their positions like Trippier, Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Kane and I have more faith in Southgate than I did, but we definitely got lucky with the group and the lay of fixtures.

 

Enjoyed the tournament though despite my newborn little girl taking up my entire time through it but I’m looking forward to getting back to domestic matters.

 

Let's be honest, we've got **** all chance if our best centre backs are Maguire and Stones.

[Mosin]

Personally don't think Southgate has much of a clue tactically. His obsession with 3-5-2, having qualified comfortably playing a back four, hasn't improved us at all.

 

In qualifying we conceded 3 in 10 games. We've conceded 8 in 7 at this WC (one clean sheet). Defensively, the formation change has made us worse.

 

So, to justify the change in approach, surely it must have improved our attacking play - right? Only Iran, of all the teams at the WC had less shots on target from open play. We managed to nullify our star striker, Kane, who likes to play up on his own, and our best winger, Sterling, who is not a number 10.

 

Our success in reaching the semis was almost exclusively down to set pieces. Much like Indiana Jones was completely irrelevant to the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark (the Nazis would've still found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melted off if Indy had just stayed home and watched the snooker), our formation really had no bearing on our set piece strength.

 

The best young players coming through are all wide attackers: Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Lookman, Nelson, Hudson-Odoi. Yet the manager has seemingly convinced himself that wide attackers have no part of his England vision.

 

Even 2-0 down, he couldn't bring himself to take off a defender for one last push to get something from the game. We finished with five defenders and a holding midfielder, FFS.

 

This Word Cup will be won by a team playing a variant on 4-3-3. Just like the last World Cup was. And the one before that. And every Champions League winner as far back as I can remember.

 

And all the England age groups who have been beating everyone across the board.

 

I've enjoyed our run through the tournament, but not the way we've played. Watching five defenders, a holding midfielder and the keeper slowly pass the ball between themselves for long periods until someone puts them under pressure and they lump it 60 yards back to the opposition is pretty turgid stuff.

 

I certainly hope it's not the future.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

Good post, but neither France ( 4231 ) or Croatia (4141 ) play 433, also 2014 wc was won by Germany playing also 4231, Rm won this years CL playing 4321 and year before and year before that, I am just saying like...…

 

And was not SG the manager during the u21's most successful period in recent history? losing just 3 games in 33 games in charge? I would say that's impressive, England did better than expected, we have a crap team with 1 top player ( HK ) and a few pretty good players with 1 who didn't show up at all ( Dele Alli ) and a pretty inexperienced team ( the youngest at the wc ) I was happy we got out of group stages tbf.

[the saint in winchester]

Personally don't think Southgate has much of a clue tactically. His obsession with 3-5-2, having qualified comfortably playing a back four, hasn't improved us at all.

 

In qualifying we conceded 3 in 10 games. We've conceded 8 in 7 at this WC (one clean sheet). Defensively, the formation change has made us worse.

 

So, to justify the change in approach, surely it must have improved our attacking play - right? Only Iran, of all the teams at the WC had less shots on target from open play. We managed to nullify our star striker, Kane, who likes to play up on his own, and our best winger, Sterling, who is not a number 10.

 

Our success in reaching the semis was almost exclusively down to set pieces. Much like Indiana Jones was completely irrelevant to the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark (the Nazis would've still found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melted off if Indy had just stayed home and watched the snooker), our formation really had no bearing on our set piece strength.

 

The best young players coming through are all wide attackers: Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Lookman, Nelson, Hudson-Odoi. Yet the manager has seemingly convinced himself that wide attackers have no part of his England vision.

 

Even 2-0 down, he couldn't bring himself to take off a defender for one last push to get something from the game. We finished with five defenders and a holding midfielder, FFS.

 

This Word Cup will be won by a team playing a variant on 4-3-3. Just like the last World Cup was. And the one before that. And every Champions League winner as far back as I can remember.

 

And all the England age groups who have been beating everyone across the board.

 

I've enjoyed our run through the tournament, but not the way we've played. Watching five defenders, a holding midfielder and the keeper slowly pass the ball between themselves for long periods until someone puts them under pressure and they lump it 60 yards back to the opposition is pretty turgid stuff.

 

I certainly hope it's not the future.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

That’s a good post. Let’s remember that this is the Gareth Southgate who was derided by boro fans and relegated them. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a decent guy and has at least tried to approach it differently, but he’s not some sort of tactical genius.

 

Yeah, I've been bemused by people looking on Southgate and talking about him as if he's the Messiah. The constant slow passing up to half way and then back to the CBs and GK have been mind-numbing.

[hasper57saint]

Well. That's it for another four years. The euphoria created by the media didn't live up to its hype as usual. I can't say I was impressed by the England performance. At times it looked like Saints under Pillockgrino,crab football. We all know Kane can score goals as can Charlie Austin and Manelo Gabbardini but not unless they get the service. Kane certainly didn't get the service hence the fact that his penalties will probably win him the golden boot. The outstanding player for me was Jordan Pickford the rest all get well below 6/10. Right footed left back? OK for inswinging corners to be collected easily by the opposing keeper. In a way I'm glad it's over. Fourth in the World is somewhat of a misnomer.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Personally don't think Southgate has much of a clue tactically. His obsession with 3-5-2, having qualified comfortably playing a back four, hasn't improved us at all.

 

In qualifying we conceded 3 in 10 games. We've conceded 8 in 7 at this WC (one clean sheet). Defensively, the formation change has made us worse.

 

So, to justify the change in approach, surely it must have improved our attacking play - right? Only Iran, of all the teams at the WC had less shots on target from open play. We managed to nullify our star striker, Kane, who likes to play up on his own, and our best winger, Sterling, who is not a number 10.

 

Our success in reaching the semis was almost exclusively down to set pieces. Much like Indiana Jones was completely irrelevant to the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark (the Nazis would've still found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melted off if Indy had just stayed home and watched the snooker), our formation really had no bearing on our set piece strength.

 

The best young players coming through are all wide attackers: Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Lookman, Nelson, Hudson-Odoi. Yet the manager has seemingly convinced himself that wide attackers have no part of his England vision.

 

Even 2-0 down, he couldn't bring himself to take off a defender for one last push to get something from the game. We finished with five defenders and a holding midfielder, FFS.

 

This Word Cup will be won by a team playing a variant on 4-3-3. Just like the last World Cup was. And the one before that. And every Champions League winner as far back as I can remember.

 

And all the England age groups who have been beating everyone across the board.

 

I've enjoyed our run through the tournament, but not the way we've played. Watching five defenders, a holding midfielder and the keeper slowly pass the ball between themselves for long periods until someone puts them under pressure and they lump it 60 yards back to the opposition is pretty turgid stuff.

 

I certainly hope it's not the future.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

A very good post reflecting my own view, thanks for posting .

[whelk]

Only saw bits of game on big screen but we looked ok from what I saw.

Nice to see that pessimism has returned though -Southgate is sh it, we lost 3 games (always a key metric in a WC), drew with Colombia, beat only pub sides.

 

Wish I’d known this at the start so could have stopped getting carried away, feeling good and enjoying a World Cup supporting England - It was now all delusion.

[eurosaint]

Well. That's it for another four years. The euphoria created by the media didn't live up to its hype as usual. I can't say I was impressed by the England performance. At times it looked like Saints under Pillockgrino,crab football. We all know Kane can score goals as can Charlie Austin and Manelo Gabbardini but not unless they get the service. Kane certainly didn't get the service hence the fact that his penalties will probably win him the golden boot. The outstanding player for me was Jordan Pickford the rest all get well below 6/10. Right footed left back? OK for inswinging corners to be collected easily by the opposing keeper. In a way I'm glad it's over. Fourth in the World is somewhat of a misnomer.

 

This is what always gets me, they over inflate expectations big time !

Radio Solent were playing 'Congratulations' and 'So you win again' before matches, there were 25 page pull out victory spreads in the tabloids, Kane was given a rating of 11/10 for the Panama game FFS so no wonder it feels like a let-down in the end !

It's now easy to say that this squad will develop and improve for WC 2022 but that assumes that all the other big nations will sit on their arses and go backwards which ain't gonna happen !

Anyway fourth was ok but in reality (given the way the draw panned out) it was a huge chance which might never come again in most of our lifetimes !

[LGTL]

There’s some rights miserable ****ers on this forum.

 

Anyway, World Cup final day, the best in the football calendar. Hope some of you manage to enjoy it.

[captainchris]

England were pretty poor.

Southgate’s ‘if your face fits’ team was nowhere near good enough.

What is Southgate thinking - trying to say that he has ‘united the nation’ at a time of disunity!!!

As with his team and irrational over inflated view of the team’s success he is deluded and arrogant to make such a statement not to say completely wrong...

Allardyce would have made a better fist of it.

[St_Tel49]

Personally don't think Southgate has much of a clue tactically. His obsession with 3-5-2, having qualified comfortably playing a back four, hasn't improved us at all.

 

In qualifying we conceded 3 in 10 games. We've conceded 8 in 7 at this WC (one clean sheet). Defensively, the formation change has made us worse.

 

So, to justify the change in approach, surely it must have improved our attacking play - right? Only Iran, of all the teams at the WC had less shots on target from open play. We managed to nullify our star striker, Kane, who likes to play up on his own, and our best winger, Sterling, who is not a number 10.

 

Our success in reaching the semis was almost exclusively down to set pieces. Much like Indiana Jones was completely irrelevant to the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark (the Nazis would've still found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melted off if Indy had just stayed home and watched the snooker), our formation really had no bearing on our set piece strength.

 

The best young players coming through are all wide attackers: Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Lookman, Nelson, Hudson-Odoi. Yet the manager has seemingly convinced himself that wide attackers have no part of his England vision.

 

Even 2-0 down, he couldn't bring himself to take off a defender for one last push to get something from the game. We finished with five defenders and a holding midfielder, FFS.

 

This Word Cup will be won by a team playing a variant on 4-3-3. Just like the last World Cup was. And the one before that. And every Champions League winner as far back as I can remember.

 

And all the England age groups who have been beating everyone across the board.

 

I've enjoyed our run through the tournament, but not the way we've played. Watching five defenders, a holding midfielder and the keeper slowly pass the ball between themselves for long periods until someone puts them under pressure and they lump it 60 yards back to the opposition is pretty turgid stuff.

 

I certainly hope it's not the future.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

Interesting post and a lot of good points well made. But do you think that if Southgate took your approach that England would have finished better that fourth? To me the French and Belgian teams would have beaten England whatever personnel or tactics they would have adopted.

[saint michael]

I have to say that it was good listening to Glen Hoddle on the tactics and what England need to do to develop further. It still feels like he has a lot to offer as a coach / manager.

[Batman]

looking back,

 

Sterling was very very average. His finishing/final ball was a disgrace at this level.

 

Kane was good, looked totally battered in the last week

 

Maguire good

Stones good, considering he is usually a howler waiting to happen

Pickford came of age I thought

Trippier was outstanding

Young, just retire ffs

Alli was a huge let down

 

the rest were decent.

[benjii]

I have to say that it was good listening to Glen Hoddle on the tactics and what England need to do to develop further. It still feels like he has a lot to offer as a coach / manager.

 

Him and Southgate together might actually be decent. Clearly Southgate is good at organisation, man management, motivation etc. Hoddle seems pretty clueless at that stuff but, apparently according to people who work in football, he's clever tactically.

[S-Clarke]

looking back,

 

Sterling was very very average. His finishing/final ball was a disgrace at this level.

 

Kane was good, looked totally battered in the last week

 

Maguire good

Stones good, considering he is usually a howler waiting to happen

Pickford came of age I thought

Trippier was outstanding

Young, just retire ffs

Alli was a huge let down

 

the rest were decent.

 

Yeah that's a fair view. Sterling is going to be one of these players who always promises lots, but actually delivers very little.

 

I actually thought Henderson was decent in some of the games, but the problems came against the better sides and he was expected to do the job of two.

 

Looking forward to seeing Sessengon at this level next season as I think he's an international wing back waiting to happen.

[shurlock]

France are going to get stronger and stronger. When you consider that the likes of Tolisso can't get into the side, you realise how well they're set up for next few years.

[Micky]

looking back,

 

Sterling was very very average. His finishing/final ball was a disgrace at this level.

 

Kane was good, looked totally battered in the last week

 

Maguire good

Stones good, considering he is usually a howler waiting to happen

Pickford came of age I thought

Trippier was outstanding

Young, just retire ffs

Alli was a huge let down

 

the rest were decent.

Yep, wouldn't disagree with any of that, but I also think that one of our problems is that we don't have any truly world class players. We have some very good players, but none in the class of a Modric, Hazard or DeBrunne. Trippier, I thought was our outstanding player, but he still needs to prove that kind of level over time. We are a decent team, but quite a way off the top teams.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Trippier and Pickford are the only 2 who can be classed as very good throughout the tournament

 

Some were good against the poorer opposition, Kane, Maguire but were found out when the better teams showed up

 

The rest were ok against the the poorer teams and very average against the better teams...

[S-Clarke]

France are going to get stronger and stronger. When you consider that the likes of Tolisso can't get into the side, you realise how well they're set up for next few years.

 

The French talent pool is ridiculous. You even have Dembele, Coman and Lemar who are quality players, yet they can't get in that side. Lacazette and Benzema left at home...

[angelman]

Trippier and Pickford are the only 2 who can be classed as very good throughout the tournament

 

Some were good against the poorer opposition, Kane, Maguire but were found out when the better teams showed up

 

The rest were ok against the the poorer teams and very average against the better teams...

 

Aye.

 

You wouldn't come away from the WC saying that Kane was a world class player, would you? He was being touted as the one world class player that we had, but penalties and goals against Panama don't really cut the mustard.

[Batman]

Aye.

 

You wouldn't come away from the WC saying that Kane was a world class player, would you? He was being touted as the one world class player that we had, but penalties and goals against Panama don't really cut the mustard.

 

I think he backs it up with his consistency in the premier league and now Europe.

Throw in the golden boot at a World Cup.....

[Spoonman]

In a dilemma over who I want to see win it today. Would love to see Croatia triumph, but I don't want to see Lovren with a winner's medal.

France it is so..

[Pamplemousse]

Allez les bleus

[Lighthouse]

One quirky little fact I like; Croatia didn't exist as a country the last time we played in a WC SF and the country we played then doesn't exist now.

 

On the final; is it too much to hope for a 3-3 draw with a hat trick of Lovren o.g. followed by a penalty shootout in which Lovren does a John Terry (CL final against Utd) but Croatia eventually win?

[John B]

Personally don't think Southgate has much of a clue tactically. His obsession with 3-5-2, having qualified comfortably playing a back four, hasn't improved us at all.

 

In qualifying we conceded 3 in 10 games. We've conceded 8 in 7 at this WC (one clean sheet). Defensively, the formation change has made us worse.

 

So, to justify the change in approach, surely it must have improved our attacking play - right? Only Iran, of all the teams at the WC had less shots on target from open play. We managed to nullify our star striker, Kane, who likes to play up on his own, and our best winger, Sterling, who is not a number 10.

 

Our success in reaching the semis was almost exclusively down to set pieces. Much like Indiana Jones was completely irrelevant to the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark (the Nazis would've still found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melted off if Indy had just stayed home and watched the snooker), our formation really had no bearing on our set piece strength.

 

The best young players coming through are all wide attackers: Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Lookman, Nelson, Hudson-Odoi. Yet the manager has seemingly convinced himself that wide attackers have no part of his England vision.

 

Even 2-0 down, he couldn't bring himself to take off a defender for one last push to get something from the game. We finished with five defenders and a holding midfielder, FFS.

 

This Word Cup will be won by a team playing a variant on 4-3-3. Just like the last World Cup was. And the one before that. And every Champions League winner as far back as I can remember.

 

And all the England age groups who have been beating everyone across the board.

 

I've enjoyed our run through the tournament, but not the way we've played. Watching five defenders, a holding midfielder and the keeper slowly pass the ball between themselves for long periods until someone puts them under pressure and they lump it 60 yards back to the opposition is pretty turgid stuff.

 

I certainly hope it's not the future.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

England finished 4th in a World Cup of 32 teams. Four years ago they went out six days after their first match in 2016 Iceland knocked us out of the Euros

 

It’s really easy to classify that as progress. No boasts, no arrogance, just progress.

 

So surely Southgate should be congratulated for that instead of being insulted for playing possession football with a team of young and inexperienced players who are far from being world beaters.

[benjii]

Hope both lose.

[Dark Munster]

France 3 Croatia 1 a.e.t.

[Pamplemousse]

#tearsforlovren

[aintforever]

Ha ha, that rat-eyed big nose ****. Hope France stuff them

[scotty]

Griezmann bought that free kick, as soon as they showed the replay of the missing foul I thought they'd score from it.

[shurlock]

VAR hijinks

[scotty]

Penalty???

 

FFS.

 

No way could that have been deliberate. Awful decision.

[Pamplemousse]

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of players. Two dodgy decisions against them lol

[shurlock]

Hope both lose.

 

Good lad.

[shurlock]

France a mess defending setpieces.

[benjii]

Good lad.

 

Thanks pal.

[stknowle]

You can definitely see how this VAR sh!t can be massaged to favour the big teams. Not saying it definitely was in this case, I think that was just about the right call but you can just see these sort of marginal incidents being ignored as not a "clear and significant error" or whatever the official terminology is if it's the big team that stands to lose out and vice versa if it's the big team that stands to gain.

[Pamplemousse]

Poor Lovren.

 

Hahahahahahahaha

[Picard]

Popping them in for fun now.

[SNSUN]

Lol@Lovren. This could be a pasting here, France have their tail up and don’t have to worry about protecting the lead.

[niceandfriendly]

Martin "He had no real right to shoot from there" Keown. Disallow the goal then. Moron.

[Micky]

Whoops!

 

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[iansums]

Sh•t game

 

 

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[CB Fry]

Mess.

[Toon Saint]

So pleased Lovren said that cr@p about him being one of the best defenders in the world. He’s going to get absolutely crucified by opposition fans next season.

 

 

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[shurlock]

He’ll be carrying champagne tonight - Keown seems very pleased with himself over that one.