The World Cup Thread

[mrfahaji]

if he moved forward he could have kicked it. All tournament he was sow on the ball and got caught a few times.

He is not a entre back and so was bound to make mistakes

 

Sorry but that's simply not true. This is the moment (hopefully this picture works...) Perisic connects with the ball. He is leaping with leg outstretched. The only way Walker could have kicked it clear is if he did the same. Yes, he could have attacked it quicker with his head, but if you don't know there is a forward about to pounce why would you take the risk of misjudging the ball in your own area?

 

[tajjuk]

That picture does raise the question why dangerous play wasn't looked at, that is a boot at head height.

[OldNick]

Sorry but that's simply not true. This is the moment (hopefully this picture works...) Perisic connects with the ball. He is leaping with leg outstretched. The only way Walker could have kicked it clear is if he did the same. Yes, he could have attacked it quicker with his head, but if you don't know there is a forward about to pounce why would you take the risk of misjudging the ball in your own area?

 

Considering the forward started well behind him, it shows he was not moving toward the ball but waiting. If he had moved to the ball he would not have needed to dive forward but head away.The forward would have have not got near it. You can try and defend Walker (better than he can)but he was at fault. I do concede that he should have had a call of 'man on' which may have got him to move a bit sooner

[Lord Duckhunter]

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing and it’s easy to sit here and say Southgate should have done this or should have done that. He’s a young coach and if he learns from this that’ll really help him in future. Somebody like Sven would have probably got us through that yesterday (especially after going 1 up) but his sides wouldn’t have given us the feel good factor that Southgate did. All I’ve ever asked is for England players to do their best and show a bit of humility. This bunch did, there were no billy big balls amongst them. I’m cynical when it comes to England, I normally can’t quite put club loyalties behind me, but I managed to this time. I’d have even managed to put up with the Spurs won it pony, if we did manage it. In the end we were a bit Spursy, as we always are. If we can get some of our younger players playing regular football, we’ll have half a chance in future. Loads of this bunch played in lower leagues and played regularly at important stages in their development . If our youngsters just want to sit on big teams benches, we’ve no chance. But if they get out and play, get battled hardened, be as humble as this group, we may yet win something in the next few years

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited 12 July, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[Sheaf Saint]

That picture does raise the question why dangerous play wasn't looked at, that is a boot at head height.

 

Yeah I thought that at the time and wondered why the 'taters didn't suggest it.

[mrfahaji]

Considering the forward started well behind him, it shows he was not moving toward the ball but waiting. If he had moved to the ball he would not have needed to dive forward but head away.The forward would have have not got near it. You can try and defend Walker (better than he can)but he was at fault. I do concede that he should have had a call of 'man on' which may have got him to move a bit sooner

 

There's no doubt that Walker could have done better - obviously he could have, because as you have pointed out, if he had attacked the ball then Perisic couldn't have scored. My point was more that Perisic was being marked by Trippier at the moment the cross was delivered (if you pause the footage you will see that he starts from behind Trippier), and from that position surely Trippier has to do more to make it harder for Perisic to get a run on the ball/Walker (and also that Walker probably has no idea the Perisic is there, so why the urgency to attack the ball?) To blame Walker and exempt Trippier is not right in my opinion, they at least have shared responsibility, but I would put most of it on Trippier.

[mrfahaji]

Yeah I thought that at the time and wondered why the 'taters didn't suggest it.

 

I think they did, briefly. Perhaps because Walker is stooping a little, and also because Perisic beats him to the ball, so it's head against foot rather than foot against head (I doubt this is the rule, but might explain why it wasn't given!)

 

Objectively it was a great finish so would be a shame to have it ruled out. Being against England makes it a bit disappointing though, and if it was against Saints I'd be livid

[edprice1984]

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing and it’s easy to sit here and say Southgate should have done this or should have done that. He’s a young coach and if he learns from this that’ll really help him in future. Somebody like Sven would have probably got us through that yesterday (especially after going 1 up) but his sides wouldn’t have given us the feel good factor that Southgate did. All I’ve ever asked is for England players to do their best and show a bit of humility. This bunch did, there were no billy big balls amongst them. I’m cynical when it comes to England, I normally can’t quite put club loyalties behind me, but I managed to this time. I’d have even managed to put up with the Spurs won it pony, if we did manage it. In the end we were a bit Spursy, as we always are. If we can get some of our younger players playing regular football, we’ll have half a chance in future. Loads of this bunch played in lower leagues and played regularly at important stages in their development . If our youngsters just want to sit on big teams benches, we’ve no chance. But if they get out and play, get battled hardened, be as humble as this group, we may yet win something in the next few years

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Sven may have got us through last night, but we wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the Semi's with him in charge. 4-4-2 and his rigid style of play would have seen us struggle against the likes of Colombia and Tunisia. See Rio Ferdinand's comments about how he was told not to bring the ball out of the back, playing in straight lines. Ironically if Southgate had employed those tactics in the 2nd half we may have been able to counter their midfield, butI honestly prefer how we play at the moment. Just missing that one player who can unlock a defence - as many people pointed out before the tournament. The problem was that the players mentioned were either injured, injury prone or Jon Joe Shelvey!

 

If you look back through the last 20 or so years, English football has been playing catch-up. First we didn't have any left footed players; then we lacked players comfortable on the ball; now we need a Pirlo; Modric; Iniesta type player. The latter is not far away, Phil Foden is going to be a special player provided he can keep free of injuries and gets his opportunity at City (with Pep, I think this will happen). The younger age groups the three key features are pace, ability on the ball and fitness. I agree with you, as long as we can provide these kids with the opportunities to play - whether that means dropping down to the Championship etc then we will continue to see improvement. Under Southgate we are now seeing an identity and style of play mirrored in every age group for England.

[Batman]

Sven may have got us through last night, but we wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the Semi's with him in charge. 4-4-2 and his rigid style of play would have seen us struggle against the likes of Colombia and Tunisia. See Rio Ferdinand's comments about how he was told not to bring the ball out of the back, playing in straight lines. Ironically if Southgate had employed those tactics in the 2nd half we may have been able to counter their midfield, butI honestly prefer how we play at the moment. Just missing that one player who can unlock a defence - as many people pointed out before the tournament. The problem was that the players mentioned were either injured, injury prone or Jon Joe Shelvey!

 

If you look back through the last 20 or so years, English football has been playing catch-up. First we didn't have any left footed players; then we lacked players comfortable on the ball; now we need a Pirlo; Modric; Iniesta type player. The latter is not far away, Phil Foden is going to be a special player provided he can keep free of injuries and gets his opportunity at City (with Pep, I think this will happen). The younger age groups the three key features are pace, ability on the ball and fitness. I agree with you, as long as we can provide these kids with the opportunities to play - whether that means dropping down to the Championship etc then we will continue to see improvement. Under Southgate we are now seeing an identity and style of play mirrored in every age group for England.

 

agree there.

I hope players like Loftus-Cheek, Rashford and others getting little game time demand to move. This is as Chelsea are about to spend another £40m on a CM

[shurlock]

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing and it’s easy to sit here and say Southgate should have done this or should have done that. He’s a young coach and if he learns from this that’ll really help him in future. Somebody like Sven would have probably got us through that yesterday (especially after going 1 up) but his sides wouldn’t have given us the feel good factor that Southgate did. All I’ve ever asked is for England players to do their best and show a bit of humility. This bunch did, there were no billy big balls amongst them. I’m cynical when it comes to England, I normally can’t quite put club loyalties behind me, but I managed to this time. I’d have even managed to put up with the Spurs won it pony, if we did manage it. In the end we were a bit Spursy, as we always are. If we can get some of our younger players playing regular football, we’ll have half a chance in future. Loads of this bunch played in lower leagues and played regularly at important stages in their development . If our youngsters just want to sit on big teams benches, we’ve no chance. But if they get out and play, get battled hardened, be as humble as this group, we may yet win something in the next few years

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I always knew you had a soft spot for Jesse Lingard pal. What is it? His mad tekkers? His dabbing? His bantz? Pics of his besties on instagram?

Edited 12 July, 2018 by shurlock

[View From The Top]

How and why we lost is subjective and everyone will have their own view about never having a better chance but for me, the whole tournament has been wonderful if you're an older England fan.

 

I'd gone from England home and away to not giving 5 fu_cks as it appeared the players didn't give a toss and nor did a succession of managers. This team, along with Southgate has restored my faith. The team, finally, has a sense of identity and if the young English players, like Foden, are given the chance then the future is brighter than it has been for a very long time.

 

I'll settle for that.

[Roo1976]

wow when is there going to be a better oppertunity than this one thats just passed.?

The biggger nations that were ahead of us in this cup were falling off just like youd dream it to go but never really happening .............well it just did and we werent good enough to be brave

and make crucial decisions when it mattered.

 

Kane was captain so hed be expected to play every match........he was clearly injured against columbia but battled on bravely(he wont admit it though)....Welbeck should have been on instead and Kane off the bench.

 

Delph for donkey backwards passing Henderson..........

 

Loftus for Ali who again was clearly injured and wasted another starting berth.........

 

 

Rashford out of his depth in this one ..........just a bit peeved that we werent able to hold out for just this game regroup and go again....

[shurlock]

wow when is there going to be a better oppertunity than this one thats just passed.?

The biggger nations that were ahead of us in this cup were falling off just like youd dream it to go but never really happening .............well it just did and we werent good enough to be brave

and make crucial decisions when it mattered.

 

Kane was captain so hed be expected to play every match........he was clearly injured against columbia but battled on bravely(he wont admit it though)....Welbeck should have been on instead and Kane off the bench.

 

Delph for donkey backwards passing Henderson..........

 

Loftus for Ali who again was clearly injured and wasted another starting berth.........

 

 

Rashford out of his depth in this one ..........just a bit peeved that we werent able to hold out for just this game regroup and go again....

 

Spurs fans saying Kane hasn’t looked sharp since his ankle injury against Bournemouth in March.

[Dellman]

As soon as Rooney,Gerrard and Lampard were ditched and the 'Golden Generatioin' was no more, interest began to return and achievement followed. It is a mustery to me why the so-called stars never performed and it was good to see the back of them. There is hope with this new lot

[mrfahaji]

I always knew you had a soft spot for Jesse Lingard pal. What is it? His mad tekkers? His dabbing? His bantz? Pics of his besties on social media?

 

I know you're teasing Lord D, but I never had a problem with Jesse Lingard until I watched an interview with him on the even of the tournament and all he could talk about was his instagram. Now I can't stand him, especially when after scoring a brilliant goal he saw fit to do a celebration inspired by a video game. And not even a retro/classic one.

 

I might be a dinosaur before my time, and sometimes it's easy to forget that they are just overprivileged youngsters, but can't stand that stuff...!

[Lord Duckhunter]

I know you're teasing Lord D, but I never had a problem with Jesse Lingard until I watched an interview with him on the even of the tournament and all he could talk about was his instagram. Now I can't stand him, especially when after scoring a brilliant goal he saw fit to do a celebration inspired by a video game. And not even a retro/classic one.

 

I might be a dinosaur before my time, and sometimes it's easy to forget that they are just overprivileged youngsters, but can't stand that stuff...!

 

I don't particularly rate Lingard I don't know where you got that idea from. Personally, I'd have played Dier instead of him & played a 3-4-1-2 with Alli in the 10 role.

 

Second half we should defo have swapped it around as their full backs were getting too much room. Id have gone for a back 4 with Walker or Trippier playing in front of the other and Delph giving Young some cover. Played 4-5-1 with Vardy as our out ball.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Heisenberg]

I don't particularly rate Lingard I don't know where you got that idea from. Personally, I'd have played Dier instead of him & played a 3-4-1-2 with Alli in the 10 role.

 

[Cabbage_Face]

Deli Ali is not good enough

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Saint Pete]

How and why we lost is subjective and everyone will have their own view about never having a better chance but for me, the whole tournament has been wonderful if you're an older England fan.

 

I'd gone from England home and away to not giving 5 fu_cks as it appeared the players didn't give a toss and nor did a succession of managers. This team, along with Southgate has restored my faith. The team, finally, has a sense of identity and if the young English players, like Foden, are given the chance then the future is brighter than it has been for a very long time.

 

I'll settle for that.

 

Absolutely. I too have become accustomed to not giving a toss about international football in recent years so thank you Southgate for restoring faith and pride in this young England team.

 

It's easy to pick holes in strategy in hindsight now we have gone out, but I think it was his consistency of selection, formation and game plan that have coaxed such improved performances out of what is in reality far from the most talented of squads in this world cup. He seems to be a good fit for the England manager role at this point where there are no massive stars but a number of reasonably promising young players that he can work with.

 

The challenging thing for him now will be dealing with the rise in expectations after such a positive world cup.

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[mrfahaji]

I don't particularly rate Lingard I don't know where you got that idea from. Personally, I'd have played Dier instead of him & played a 3-4-1-2 with Alli in the 10 role.

 

Second half we should defo have swapped it around as their full backs were getting too much room. Id have gone for a back 4 with Walker or Trippier playing in front of the other and Delph giving Young some cover. Played 4-5-1 with Vardy as our out ball.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

My post was in response to shurlock, not you - I got the impression he was just from the tone of his post!

[Halo Stickman]

Our formation and the players Southgate selected to play this formation was pretty effective whilst we were on the front foot going forward and playing with high tempo; but in most matches we seemed to run out of steam, allowing the opposition to gain the ascendancy and put us on the back foot ... and it was at this point we started to look vulnerable, especially the ball-winning and ball-retention of our midfield. It’s difficult to say what we could have done to best address this problem: replacing Alli or Lingard with, say, Dyer or Delph would perhaps have been a solution, but often the problem had arisen before half-time, and to make those sort of substitutions at that stage would have looked negative, undermined our cutting edge going forward, and lessened our chances of getting back on the front foot.

 

On a more general point, I’m with others who say that this team has restored their interest and passion for the England side; indeed, I had become so disillusioned with the Billy Big B ollocks attitude of former England sides that I’d even given up watching them on the telly. Now, I’m still feeling pretty gutted over twenty-four hours after our exit. Sadly, despite my restored faith and optimism for the England team, I suspect it will be a long, long time before we have a better opportunity to reach a World Cup Final.

[shurlock]

My post was in response to shurlock, not you - I got the impression he was just from the tone of his post!

 

It’s jlingz to lord d.

[Ohio Saint]

I think I'm only now just coming out of the weird shell of emotional investment of the whole affair.

 

God, I'm so depressed right now.

[OldNick]

it was good that the off field distractions of the WAGS were put aside. I wonder if Southgate made decisions about celebrity and the sideshow as well as talent as he picked his squad. Wilshire has his distractions off field and so may be a reason his box was not picked.

In the last 20 years the wives and celebrity has clouded the teams talent and became a distraction. Hence the fans losing faith

[OldNick]

It was sad to listen on the BBC podcast saying that Modric and the Croats thought we disrespected them with the 'coming home' stuff also that they were tired and would beat them. Their press was also scathing

[Lighthouse]

it was good that the off field distractions of the WAGS were put aside. I wonder if Southgate made decisions about celebrity and the sideshow as well as talent as he picked his squad. Wilshire has his distractions off field and so may be a reason his box was not picked.

In the last 20 years the wives and celebrity has clouded the teams talent and became a distraction. Hence the fans losing faith

 

I disagree, never really been bothered about what Posh, Cheryl, Colleen and co were up to and I've not met anyone else who cares either. WAGs are just... there. Good for a pull out (oooh matron) in Heat magazine but not a distraction.

[Graffito]

It was sad to listen on the BBC podcast saying that Modric and the Croats thought we disrespected them with the 'coming home' stuff also that they were tired and would beat them. Their press was also scathing

 

I think it was the English press that modric alleged was disrespectful. It seems barely credible that Croatia went onto the pitch thinking we’ll show those Sun and Daily Star sports reporters. The prospect of getting to a World Cup final might have been the greater motivator. You might have seen that their press called England “unbelievably inferior” after the match. All hot air and puff.

[OldNick]

I disagree, never really been bothered about what Posh, Cheryl, Colleen and co were up to and I've not met anyone else who cares either. WAGs are just... there. Good for a pull out (oooh matron) in Heat magazine but not a distraction.

Well I disagree, a bunch of women looking for the limelight and bickering behind the scenes will cause friction. They go back or phone their hubbies and it causes a distraction.

Especially this young generation,

[Pamplemousse]

It was sad to listen on the BBC podcast saying that Modric and the Croats thought we disrespected them with the 'coming home' stuff also that they were tired and would beat them. Their press was also scathing

 

Europeans don't get the coming home stuff at all, they don't have a sense of humour at all, and clearly don't understand that the song itself is all about England's past failures.

[Cabbage_Face]

Gail Platt is angry

[Lord Duckhunter]

it was good that the off field distractions of the WAGS were put aside. I wonder if Southgate made decisions about celebrity and the sideshow as well as talent as he picked his squad. Wilshire has his distractions off field and so may be a reason his box was not picked.

In the last 20 years the wives and celebrity has clouded the teams talent and became a distraction. Hence the fans losing faith

 

Had we faced the Brazil of 02, & Portugal of ‘06 with 10 men most of the game, we’d have been coming home at the quarter final stage like Svens teams did. WAGS or no WAGS didn’t make a blind bit of difference.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[iansums]

It was sad to listen on the BBC podcast saying that Modric and the Croats thought we disrespected them with the 'coming home' stuff also that they were tired and would beat them. Their press was also scathing

 

It doesn't take much for the foreign press (and others) to come out with the 'arrogant English' line.

[CB Fry]

Europeans don't get the coming home stuff at all, they don't have a sense of humour at all, and clearly don't understand that the song itself is all about England's past failures.

Exactly- it's a song about crazy and usually forlorn hope, not entitlement.

[shurlock]

Exactly- it's a song about crazy and usually forlorn hope, not entitlement.

 

Doubt that’s how lord d’s bandwagon brigade interpret or sing it

[Supersubpuckett]

i've not read all the posts on here but we were weak down the left all tournament. Every game shone a bright light on the absence of Bertrand - Young was atrocious and Rose way off fitness. Our progress may paper over cracks likes these in the short term but if gareth continues with 'bold' selections like this then it will get picked on eventually. Being a great leader is also about knowing who the right people are.

[ecuk268]

It doesn't take much for the foreign press (and others) to come out with the 'arrogant English' line.

 

When you look at some of the tabloid coverage, they may have a point.

 

Surely the biggest achievement of this tournament is a country with a population of 4 million getting to a World Cup final.

[CylonKing]

Nope, still no pride or link to the English diving team. Displaying all that is wrong with Football in this country on the world stage. Have been looking forward to Derby v Saints so much more than any England match. I've realised that I'm not really a Football fan but just a Saints fan.

[CB Fry]

i've not read all the posts on here but we were weak down the left all tournament. Every game shone a bright light on the absence of Bertrand - Young was atrocious and Rose way off fitness. Our progress may paper over cracks likes these in the short term but if gareth continues with 'bold' selections like this then it will get picked on eventually. Being a great leader is also about knowing who the right people are.

Bertrand really not that much better. Let's remember who lazily wafted a clearance to let Everton equalise which could well have been fatal for our season.

 

Let's not pretend he would have made any difference at all. The fact he didn't get on the plane shows what a poor season Ryan Bertrand had.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Bertrand really not that much better. Let's remember who lazily wafted a clearance to let Everton equalise which could well have been fatal for our season.

 

Let's not pretend he would have made any difference at all. The fact he didn't get on the plane shows what a poor season Ryan Bertrand had.

 

It only shows the Southgate did not pick him and the fact that he chose to take rose proves that having a poor season had little to do with it.

[scotty]

Doubt that’s how lord d’s bandwagon brigade interpret or sing it

 

I've been sent so many whatsapp parodies and písstakes on the "It's coming home" theme that it's hard to believe many take it seriously and at face value.

[shurlock]

I've been sent so many whatsapp parodies and písstakes on the "It's coming home" theme that it's hard to believe many take it seriously and at face value.

 

Just saying, whenever I've heard it, I don't think earnest little scouser in shades (Ian Broudie), schooled in Echo and the Bunnymen and all that other 80s bittersweet Merseysound.

[Window Cleaner]

I was just thinking that England really missed AOC on Tuesday. Sort of player who'd could dynamite Croatia's defence.

What think you all ?

[CB Fry]

Just saying, whenever I've heard it, I don't think earnest little scouser in shades (Ian Broudie), schooled in Echo and the Bunnymen and all that other 80s bittersweet Merseysound.

[East Kent Saint]

Never seen AOC dominate or dynamite any defense , final ball is his weakness .

[Batman]

Never seen AOC dominate or dynamite any defense , final ball is his weakness .

 

I thought he was excellent for Liverpool.

Way better than lingard for example

[shurlock]

 

Don't get me wrong: many people understand it's meaning. I was referring specifically to the JCLs (see my original post)

[shurlock]

So easy.

[Saint Albert]

Good job of tracking back by Danny Rose for the Belgium goal.

[Plastic]

Well that’s a shame. We could get smashed here. Look clueless.

[hackedoff]

Quick,free flowing,attractive football 1 sloth,crab football 0