The World Cup Thread

[iansums]

I understand it's easy to get swept up in the emotion and drama of it all pal.

 

Did you pal?

[angelman]

Surprised at the final, as I thought after the Spanish were knocked out, that it would be Belgium vs Croatia.

 

We started out thinking we had no chance. The side of the draw opened up nicely, and after Russia beat Spain, it was possibly the best chance for all the remaining teams to ever get to the final. So the press and "its coming home" got off their tits on self-aggrandisement. Me, I've been bored rigid by all the England performances. I don't enjoy the way we play, not least because our midfield is sub-par and lacks creativity, or what creativity there is, is used selfishly rather than for the team. We aren't very good. Haven't been for years. Why we think over the course of a couple of weeks at the WC we suddenly have become world beaters is a mystery. We weren't much better than Tunisia. Panama was a joke. Belgium's B team was far better than our B team. Colombia could have beaten us but for the cross bar. Sweden didn't bother turning up and actually are even worse than us. So we come to Croatia. A team that plays as a team - I think that the crap that the country has been through might focus them and bring them together more. But the big difference between the two teams was the midfield.

 

I look at the England team. The GK, CB and CF seem to be well grounded people. The rest wing backs, winger, midfield seem to largely saunter around with an arrogance that doesn't match their ability. Alli was crap. Sterling was crap. Lingard was crap. Young was crap. Henderson was crap for a different reason - he is more an anchor than creative.

 

While I did of course want us to win last night and then on Sunday, if one looks at it without being revisionist nor biased, we are a very poor side. It is the same as last season watching Saints under MP - we were very poor. You can't polish a turd.

[tajjuk]

Overall it was an even game, England should have won it and been out of sight in the first half but consistently got behind Croatia all game, they just didn't always make the most of it or some last gasp tackles just saved Croatia.

 

In the end Croatia's greater experience showed through, but they required a mistake on England's part to win the game, a nothing header, Stones switched off and that was it game over, especially after going to down to 10.

 

England over the course of the game had the better chances, they just didn't take them.

 

I thought Kane had his poorest game of the tournament, his passing was awful. Alli went missing for most of the game but was not helped out by Ashley Young, he got dragged wide consistently because Young sat inside next to his centre backs for no reason instead of getting out to their right back.

 

End of the day though we were good, we played good football at a good tempo and were genuinely enjoyable to watch, more so than many of the other 'big teams'.

 

This is IIRC the youngest team ever to reach a World Cup semi, and they did so whilst Argentina, Germany, Spain, Brazil, Portugal went out earlier and Holland and Italy didn't even make it. That is a great achievement whatever way you look at it.

 

Most of this team are like 20-24, they have 2 more World Cups in them, they will get better and we have successful U17, U20 and U21 teams who's players will start coming through, the likes of Foden, Brester, Sessegnon etc.

 

I can't see another 30 years of hurt, I'll reckon we'll win a Euros or World Cup in the next 10 years.

 

Also I reckon the Ox, Wilshere and Lallana were missed, they would have added to that midfield and given us more options/better control.

Edited 12 July, 2018 by tajjuk

[OldNick]

Surprised at the final, as I thought after the Spanish were knocked out, that it would be Belgium vs Croatia.

 

We started out thinking we had no chance. The side of the draw opened up nicely, and after Russia beat Spain, it was possibly the best chance for all the remaining teams to ever get to the final. So the press and "its coming home" got off their tits on self-aggrandisement. Me, I've been bored rigid by all the England performances. I don't enjoy the way we play, not least because our midfield is sub-par and lacks creativity, or what creativity there is, is used selfishly rather than for the team. We aren't very good. Haven't been for years. Why we think over the course of a couple of weeks at the WC we suddenly have become world beaters is a mystery. We weren't much better than Tunisia. Panama was a joke. Belgium's B team was far better than our B team. Colombia could have beaten us but for the cross bar. Sweden didn't bother turning up and actually are even worse than us. So we come to Croatia. A team that plays as a team - I think that the crap that the country has been through might focus them and bring them together more. But the big difference between the two teams was the midfield.

 

I look at the England team. The GK, CB and CF seem to be well grounded people. The rest wing backs, winger, midfield seem to largely saunter around with an arrogance that doesn't match their ability. Alli was crap. Sterling was crap. Lingard was crap. Young was crap. Henderson was crap for a different reason - he is more an anchor than creative.

 

While I did of course want us to win last night and then on Sunday, if one looks at it without being revisionist nor biased, we are a very poor side. It is the same as last season watching Saints under MP - we were very poor. You can't polish a turd.

A bit harsh.

IMO we should have kept Sterling on and taken Dele and Jesse off and put midfielders on to flood the midfield. Delph would have as much creativity as either of those two.Dier (who is not my favourite player) could have helped add some physical play to stem their midfield. The ref only booked players for throwing the ball away etc,he didn't for some poor challenges by Redic(?) and Lovren.

We were leading and creating very little except for Sterlings pace.

Pickford's distribution was awry and so the ball kept coming back at us.

I was very calm in the lead up to the game and expected us to win, and very surprised that we didn't have the victory I expected.

There is a very hollow feeling today and hopefully we get over this quickly.

I doubt we will ever get to see England in a final as this was probably the best chance any of those young players will ever get of getting there. A second goal would have finished Croatia off, but it was not to be. I assume Kane was carrying an injury?

 

Young should also have been taken off earlier as he was off the pace from the start.

[CeeBee]

Croatia were very fluid up front and ran our defence ragged. Kane was well held. Young not a good night. However, enjoyed the run while it lasted. Some nice football before the disappointment.

Don't think we will have any chance in Quatar. Too hot. Euros could be our chance.

[warsash saint]

Souness nails in completely in the Mirror.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/graeme-souness-launches-astonishing-attack-12897971.amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

Apart from a good performance against a pub team, I really don't get all this 'so proud' nonsense?!

[shurlock]

England did very well this tournament but our ability in possession is massively lacking and it ultimately cost us. We progressed through great organisation and belief, but the quality has not been there.

 

There are loads of things to be pleased with, but equally still lots to improve on too. To say we were unlucky is wrong - we got what we deserved last night.

 

And Southgate has to decide whether he wants to persist with the same formation and leave Henderson isolated or thinks he can get away with two attacking no.8s (Lingard and Alli), hoping they can put in a defensive shift -despite it not being their natural game.

 

Maybe Henderson needs a partner in games like this, especially if England struggle to keep possession. It's clear what Croatia were doing: with the fullbacks bombing on, both their wingers pushed inside and swamped the space in front of Henderson. With technicians like Modric and Rakitic -why not put a man on Modric like the Portugese did in the Euros- it was always going to be difficult without extra support.

[Sheaf Saint]

And Southgate has to decide whether he wants to persist with the same formation and leave Henderson isolated or thinks he can get away with two attacking no.8s (Lingard and Alli), hoping they can put in a defensive shift -despite it not being their natural game.

 

Maybe Henderson needs a partner in games like this, especially if England struggle to keep possession. It's clear what Croatia were doing: with the fullbacks bombing on, both their wingers pushed inside and swamped the space in front of Henderson. With technicians like Modric and Rakitic -why not put a man on Modric like the Portugese did in the Euros- it was always going to be difficult without extra support.

 

That's my thinking too. He was left too exposed time and again by Lingard and Alli who aren't defensive minded players.

 

If we're going to play with just one CDM then we need someone much, much better than Henderson ever has been or probably ever will be.

[Heisenberg]

Apart from a good performance against a pub team, I really don't get all this 'so proud' nonsense?!

 

210 countries entered and we got to the semi final.

 

WC didn't start 3 weeks ago and we have done well to get to the semi final of the whole tournament

[Useful Idiot]

What annoyed me about the tactical approach that Southgate took to the Croatia game is that in every other match, Sterling was dropping deep and joining the midfield to create an overload so we could retain possession.

 

In this game, as soon as we scored, Sterling stayed on the shoulder of the centrebacks and tried to play in behind for Kane's flick-ons. This meant that we sacrificed the ball to a side with better technical players and reverted to hoofing it.

 

We should have stuck to what we tried to do in the earlier matches, the worst that would have happened is that we would have lost with bravery. We tried to play anti-football and got done for it. Craotia deserved to win. I hate Lovren.

[warsash saint]

210 countries entered and we got to the semi final.

 

WC didn't start 3 weeks ago and we have done well to get to the semi final of the whole tournament

 

I don't disagree BUT with the players we had & the way the draw opened up, we should in that final on Sunday. Trying to sit on a lead for most of the game has cost an opportunity we are unlikely to see again for many, many years!

[tajjuk]

I am pretty certain Croatia should have been down to 10 men, Rebic elbowed Walker in the face and Mandzukic got the yellow card for it. Rebic then through the ball away, much like Walker did, did not get a yellow for it and then got a further yellow for a late challenge on Danny Rosee.

 

He should have been sent off and I am pretty sure VAR was supposed to correct mistaken identity.

[Saint Garrett]

Pretty sure Lovren could have got a few niggly yellows too.

[shurlock]

I am pretty certain Croatia should have been down to 10 men, Rebic elbowed Walker in the face and Mandzukic got the yellow card for it. Rebic then through the ball away, much like Walker did, did not get a yellow for it and then got a further yellow for a late challenge on Danny Rosee.

 

He should have been sent off and I am pretty sure VAR was supposed to correct mistaken identity.

 

It wasn't mistaken identity pal. Rightly or wrongly, the ref didn't think Rebic's challenge deserved a yellow. He walked over to Mandzukic and booked him for throwing/kicking the ball away afterwards. The ref was clear who he was booking and why. If you're not happy that Rebic's challenge escaped punishment, focus on that. Has nowt to do with mistaken identity.

Edited 12 July, 2018 by shurlock

[tajjuk]

It wasn't mistaken identity pal. Rightly or wrongly, the ref didn't think Rebic's challenge deserved a yellow. He walked over to Mandzukic and booked him for throwing/kicking the ball away afterwards. The ref was clear who he was booking and why. If you're not happy that Rebic's challenge escaped punishment, focus on that. Has nowt to do with mistaken identity.

 

Mandzukic didn't do anything as far as I saw, they replayed the incident and the ref was pointing at the foul, not at Mandzukic, it also looked like the VAR people replayed it as well.

[shurlock]

Mandzukic didn't do anything as far as I saw, they replayed the incident and the ref was pointing at the foul, not at Mandzukic, it also looked like the VAR people replayed it as well.

 

I watched the game again on the BBC and they showed a replay of ref walking directly over to Mandzukic and booking him for kicking the ball away.

[Micky]

I don't disagree BUT with the players we had & the way the draw opened up, we should in that final on Sunday. Trying to sit on a lead for most of the game has cost an opportunity we are unlikely to see again for many, many years!

 

Tend to agree. It's not just about understanding we got to a WC semi-final, it's understanding that the opportunity only comes around every 4 years and it's highly unlikely we will get such a favorable draw for many years to come. We started well yesterday and were in pole position, even going into the second half we were one nil up in a 'next goal wins' game and we blew it. If we had got a second I think we'd have done it, but as soon as they scored you knew how it was ending.

 

Credit where it's due, we did well to get that far, but under analysis, you'd be foolish to think that we are close to the real top sides.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Bet those idiots with "world cup winners 2018" tattoos feel a bit stupid this morning...

[SW5 SAINT]

I don't disagree BUT with the players we had & the way the draw opened up, we should in that final on Sunday. Trying to sit on a lead for most of the game has cost an opportunity we are unlikely to see again for many, many years!

 

I think it's unlikely ever to open again in this way, for lets face it an average team to reach the final. That's Croatia now beneficiaries of that. Don't forget Croatia were even runners up to Iceland in the qualifiers. Iceland probably thinking what might have been.

[S-Clarke]

Bet those idiots with "world cup winners 2018" tattoos feel a bit stupid this morning...

 

Why don't you just get behind the team?

[Micky]

Bet those idiots with "world cup winners 2018" tattoos feel a bit stupid this morning...

 

For Saints fans, easily sorted...!!!

 

Edited 12 July, 2018 by Micky

[mrfahaji]

I watched the game again on the BBC and they showed a replay of ref walking directly over to Mandzukic and booking him for kicking the ball away.

 

Yeah it was pretty obvious even at the time it was a booking for kicking the ball away.

[East Kent Saint]

Croatia defended well and their class core of players turned it round but I predict ! France will win.

With hindsight he should of subbed young at half time and perhaps put Loftus Cheek on as well. Croatia obviously targeted Kane and should of had a few more yellows etc but we were getting tired and sloppy just like Belgium did so fair result as class prevailed.

[John B]

The team did well but I never expected to get to a World Cup Final without any World Class players

[St.Patrik]

Shame the singer Mickey Fitz died 2016 otherwise a tribute song for Southgate would have been a cool version 2.0 of this song - with changed lyrics ofcourse.

[shurlock]

The team did well but I never expected to get to a World Cup Final without any World Class players

 

Trippier innit?

 

Can't believe, a few years ago, I was watching Guly skinning him at Turf Moor in the championship.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Trippier innit?

 

Can't believe, a few years ago, I was watching Guly skinning him at Turf Moor in the championship.

 

[tajjuk]

I watched the game again on the BBC and they showed a replay of ref walking directly over to Mandzukic and booking him for kicking the ball away.

 

Fair enough didn't see it and ITV commentators didn't seem to pick it up either, neither did the host broadcasters, though that no.11 should have had about 3 yellows anyway.

 

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Don't really understand all the negativity, everyone seems very quick to jump on the loss with sort of 'I told you so' comments, which I don't get.

 

Overall the game was balanced, people saying Croatia were the better team seemed to forget the first half where England completely dominated and should have been 2-3 up.

 

Our 2nd half game management was poor, and the Croatia's stepped it up. But people also seem to be forgetting the experience factor. Modric has 111 caps alone, Mandzukic 88, Rakitic 98 etc.

 

These players have champions league titles and the core of that Croatia team has been playing together for like 10 years, with many coming through the same youth teams together.

 

England haven't, they key now is that we keep this team together, and don't heap too much pressure or change the plan that has clearly been working.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Our midfield were/are simply not good enough when up against better sides and

up till last night we have only played one decent side and we lost that too.

 

We did well but had we been on the other side of the draw we would not have got beyond last 16..

[Gorgiesaint]

Dejan Lovren being typically modest. He needs to be careful, his head might be too big to get back to Liverpool.

 

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC

 

[Lighthouse]

Conceding 3 in the final, plus 6 against Roma and 5 against Seville along the way. Nice going Dejan.

[DJ_TOAST]

Was nice to hear some Lovren abuse and chants in the Scholars Arms last night (and the students / tourists in there, which there were many, wondering what it was about)

[Pamplemousse]

Mbappé will demolish him, so enjoy the final everyone and enjoy Lovren's tears.

[OldNick]

Dejan Lovren being typically modest. He needs to be careful, his head might be too big to get back to Liverpool.

 

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC

 

Knowing he was on the winning side made last night even worse. Apparently he waited at the tunnel to hug every England player as they went down the tunnel. Smug git

[Cabbage_Face]

Dejan Lovren being typically modest. He needs to be careful, his head might be too big to get back to Liverpool.

 

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC

 

 

Is he tucking serious? Struggled with sterling all the time he was on pitch, should’ve been booked, took out Kane when Kane would’ve been away on his own. Terrible cb. France will embarrass him. Clown.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[farawaysaint]

Knowing he was on the winning side made last night even worse. Apparently he waited at the tunnel to hug every England player as they went down the tunnel. Smug git

 

"I believed more that I could win the Champions League – I believe that from day one because we had the power and speed at Liverpool – than coming here to Russia. Here we have different players, but we have showed we can manage..."

 

Did he... did he just before a world cup final insult his own team mates?

[sadoldgit]

Fair enough didn't see it and ITV commentators didn't seem to pick it up either, neither did the host broadcasters, though that no.11 should have had about 3 yellows anyway.

 

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Don't really understand all the negativity, everyone seems very quick to jump on the loss with sort of 'I told you so' comments, which I don't get.

 

Overall the game was balanced, people saying Croatia were the better team seemed to forget the first half where England completely dominated and should have been 2-3 up.

 

Our 2nd half game management was poor, and the Croatia's stepped it up. But people also seem to be forgetting the experience factor. Modric has 111 caps alone, Mandzukic 88, Rakitic 98 etc.

 

These players have champions league titles and the core of that Croatia team has been playing together for like 10 years, with many coming through the same youth teams together.

 

England haven't, they key now is that we keep this team together, and don't heap too much pressure or change the plan that has clearly been working.

 

We were the better side for the first 25 minutes or so but as the half went in Croatia were getting progressively better and we were saying we needed to make changes in the second half as we were starting to struggle. Agree that a second goal would have done it though but taking the match as a whole, Croatia were the better side.

[edprice1984]

The spine of the team is there, we can add in some creative young players over the next two years and try and get a better balance in the midfield. Also need someone who can play alongside Kane up top. We should comfortably qualify for Euro's - I am interested to see how we treat the Nations League. I am going to the Croatia game in November with my 6 year old daughter. Nice opportunity for a little revenge. If I were Southgate, I would use those games as a way to blend in the young players like Foden, Sancho, Sessengnon - get them used to International football.

 

My prediction for the final: Le Foot rentre a la maison.

[tajjuk]

We were the better side for the first 25 minutes or so but as the half went in Croatia were getting progressively better and we were saying we needed to make changes in the second half as we were starting to struggle. Agree that a second goal would have done it though but taking the match as a whole, Croatia were the better side.

 

Disagree don't think Croatia had a look in the first half, they were awful. Trouble is when you are on top so much and then don't score that second goal it gives the opposition heart. If they had gone in 2-0 down then I don't think they would have got back into the game.

 

Maybe if you add extra time, but even then England wasted some good opportunities throughout the match, many a time we got in behind them but the final ball was lacking.

 

We lacked some nous and experience, we really needed a better centre mid in there to control the game more.

 

I reckon had Winks been available or we'd taken Wilshere then we'd have won that game.

 

The spine of the team is there, we can add in some creative young players over the next two years and try and get a better balance in the midfield. Also need someone who can play alongside Kane up top. We should comfortably qualify for Euro's - I am interested to see how we treat the Nations League. I am going to the Croatia game in November with my 6 year old daughter. Nice opportunity for a little revenge. If I were Southgate, I would use those games as a way to blend in the young players like Foden, Sancho, Sessengnon - get them used to International football.

 

My prediction for the final: Le Foot rentre a la maison.

 

I think get Winks into that team could be crucial, looking at his assured performance for Spurs at the Bernabeau he's the sort of player England needed last night to bring some balance to that midfield and control the game. If he continues to progress and not fall apart from injuries he could be our main centre-mid for the next ten years.

 

If you add the likes of Sessegnon, Foden, Sancho in as well as you say exciting times for the England team.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

On a side note Lovren is a plonka, Sterling tore him apart in the first half and imagine Mbappe and Greizman will as well.

[OldNick]

If we had a ref who had been less lenient he would have booked Lovren and Resic earlier. They then would have been on a tightrope. Overall Croatia deserved to win, but they got into that position due to our shortfalls.

[mrfahaji]

Trippier innit?

 

Can't believe, a few years ago, I was watching Guly skinning him at Turf Moor in the championship.

 

I'm surprised no-one picked out Trippier for their equaliser. Perisic steals a march on him, as a full back he should have been much more aware of where Perisic was, and if he do lose him surely you have to let your centre back know. BBC said "Walker was beaten by Perisic" but think that's unfair on him, and letting Trippier off the hook.

 

He has had a good tournament overall, mind.

[S-Clarke]

I'm surprised no-one picked out Trippier for their equaliser. Perisic steals a march on him, as a full back he should have been much more aware of where Perisic was, and if he do lose him surely you have to let your centre back know. BBC said "Walker was beaten by Perisic" but think that's unfair on him, and letting Trippier off the hook.

 

He has had a good tournament overall, mind.

 

We kept switching off before that as well, not sure what happend. We just lost our heads a little bit, half asleep to their corners, throw ins. Not reacting quick enough.

 

Mental fatigue maybe. Croatia just have that little bit more nous of the 'Top level games' to see that over the line.

[OldNick]

I'm surprised no-one picked out Trippier for their equaliser. Perisic steals a march on him, as a full back he should have been much more aware of where Perisic was, and if he do lose him surely you have to let your centre back know. BBC said "Walker was beaten by Perisic" but think that's unfair on him, and letting Trippier off the hook.

 

He has had a good tournament overall, mind.

IMO Walker was at fault as he waited for the ball rather than moving toward it. He was making quite a few edgy mistakes before that as well

[tajjuk]

I'm surprised no-one picked out Trippier for their equaliser. Perisic steals a march on him, as a full back he should have been much more aware of where Perisic was, and if he do lose him surely you have to let your centre back know. BBC said "Walker was beaten by Perisic" but think that's unfair on him, and letting Trippier off the hook.

 

He has had a good tournament overall, mind.

 

He was probably injured at that point, commentary said he'd been struggling with a groin injury all tournamnet and looked like it got steadily worse throughout that game, he was not moving great in the second half, neither wing-back was which was part of our problems.

 

Ashley Young looked the like the old player he is.

 

If you are going to play wing-backs I think you need to rotate them more in a tournament, they have so much work to do.

 

You also have to say though an actual centre-back instead of Walker would have attacked that cross regardless of who was behind him, it was clearly not natural for him, a few other situations from other games highlighted it, like the penalty against Tunisia.

[OldNick]

I also suggest that many will be calling for Southgates head in18-24months time. At the moment he is a hero. Some of his decisions would be questioned more had he not have the honeymoon period at present.

[mrfahaji]

He was probably injured at that point, commentary said he'd been struggling with a groin injury all tournamnet and looked like it got steadily worse throughout that game, he was not moving great in the second half, neither wing-back was which was part of our problems.

 

Ashley Young looked the like the old player he is.

 

If you are going to play wing-backs I think you need to rotate them more in a tournament, they have so much work to do.

 

You also have to say though an actual centre-back instead of Walker would have attacked that cross regardless of who was behind him, it was clearly not natural for him, a few other situations from other games highlighted it, like the penalty against Tunisia.

 

Yeah I heard that too, and hence thought it extremely strange that we took Walker off instead of Trippier, especially as Walker could have switched to RB with 4 defenders (in fact probably better suited for it).

[mrfahaji]

We kept switching off before that as well, not sure what happend. We just lost our heads a little bit, half asleep to their corners, throw ins. Not reacting quick enough.

 

Mental fatigue maybe. Croatia just have that little bit more nous of the 'Top level games' to see that over the line.

 

I think that's it. When the opposition have the upper hand for so long I think you begin to tire mentally. If the equaliser was mental fatigue then the winner definitely was. Stones and Maguire just not alert enough.

[mrfahaji]

IMO Walker was at fault as he waited for the ball rather than moving toward it. He was making quite a few edgy mistakes before that as well

 

Was he 'waiting' though? Ok so he didn't attack it, but it wasn't like he was going to let the ball bounce. If you don't think you're under pressure why would you charge towards the ball and risk misjudging it? I'm not sure Walker could have know Perisic was behind him and went to head the ball away in a reasonable, not lackadaisical manner.

[OldNick]

Was he 'waiting' though? Ok so he didn't attack it, but it wasn't like he was going to let the ball bounce. If you don't think you're under pressure why would you charge towards the ball and risk misjudging it? I'm not sure Walker could have know Perisic was behind him and went to head the ball away in a reasonable, not lackadaisical manner.

if he moved forward he could have kicked it. All tournament he was sow on the ball and got caught a few times.

He is not a entre back and so was bound to make mistakes

[tajjuk]

Yeah I heard that too, and hence thought it extremely strange that we took Walker off instead of Trippier, especially as Walker could have switched to RB with 4 defenders (in fact probably better suited for it).

 

Yeh that was odd, but Southgate is learning and inexperienced like the rest of them, he should get better as well.

 

Not taking more centre-mids and only having Delph/Dier as options was a poor decision as well IMO.