The World Cup Thread

[Lord Duckhunter]

The trouble with English players is that they very rarely have the ability to transfer their club form to the international stage apart from a very few exceptions like Kane. They seem to become inhibited when they pull on an England shirt and become totally unrecognisable. As an example, Rashford would of buried that chance playing for Man U.

 

Pony, he missed loads of sitters for Utd.

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

Although the result wasn’t crucial, I don’t like putting out a weakened team. We were told we wanted to win this match, how do you say that with your best players on the bench?

[shurlock]

Who gives a **** - it’s a clean slate starting Saturday.

[Baird of the land]

Japan would have been the easiest last 16 tie. Winning the group, getting to quarters even to then lose to Brazil would have been seen as qualified success.

They are now on the higher risk, higher reward path. think Colombia will cause England problems but if they get past they have a similar level of qtr final.

[nta786]

We’re not as good as the media have claimed. We beat two amateur outfits, but that still gave us momentum and sort of galvanised the country. Should never have made 8 changes. A performance like this kills it. I expect us to get to the quarters or semis tbh. But there’s no denying that momentum can take you into unexpected territory.

 

I agree with this.

 

I do not think we will beat Colombia.

 

The reason we did so well in those first two games, apart from playing absolutely trash sides, was that our players didn’t have much expectation. Now by losing this game tonight, 95% of our fans expect us to get to those semifinals- and with such added expectations come tremendous pressure. We will bottle it and there’ll be a mutiny. I think most of us could have taken a gracious defeat to Brazil.

 

Anyhow, come on England! No pressure

[trousers]

Happy with that. Great chance to get to the semis now.

This

[Graffito]

I watched the Columbia match. They weren’t much good. England is perfectly capable of beating them.

[Dark Munster]

If Saints win a few games in a row next season I hope the U21's don't then lose and ruin our momentum.

[Stud mark of doom]

If Saints win a few games in a row next season I hope the U21's don't then lose and ruin our momentum.

 

I agree, especially if the u21’s defeat somehow changes the remaining first team fixtures so they are much easier and that gives us an outside chance of a trophy.

 

The loss of momentum would be particularly important in that scenario.

[CB Fry]

I agree with this.

 

I do not think we will beat Colombia.

 

The reason we did so well in those first two games, apart from playing absolutely trash sides, was that our players didn’t have much expectation. Now by losing this game tonight, 95% of our fans expect us to get to those semifinals- and with such added expectations come tremendous pressure. We will bottle it and there’ll be a mutiny. I think most of us could have taken a gracious defeat to Brazil.

 

Anyhow, come on England! No pressure

Indeed. We should have gone all out to get Japan in the next round.

 

A quarter final against Brazil is what the WC is all about and we should embrace it.

 

We haven't won a major tournament knock out stage for 12 years, we made hard work of beating Tunisia and we think we can look over the heads of the likes of Colombia to potential semi finals.

[Cabrone]

I watched the Columbia match. They weren’t much good. England is perfectly capable of beating them.

 

I watched Colombia steamroller Poland over the weekend and they looked bloody good, poweful midfield and a sharp attack.

 

It depends which Colombia turn up on the day, my guess is that they'll up their game against England and we'll be in a real dogfight. 50:50 for me.

[aintforever]

Columbia will be tough but anyone who thinks Columbia then Sweden or Switzerland isn't a decent chance at a semi-final is an idiot.

 

Putting out the reserves was a no-brainer - that's why Belgium did it as well. We've played 3 games in 10 days then have a massive knockout game next Tuesday, of course it makes sense to rest players, not pick up injuries or yellow cards and give the squad a run out. Anyone moaning is a clueless nob.

[waylander]

I watched Colombia steamroller Poland over the weekend and they looked bloody good, poweful midfield and a sharp attack.

 

It depends which Colombia turn up on the day, my guess is that they'll up their game against England and we'll be in a real dogfight. 50:50 for me.

 

They'll have to do it without James Rodriguez

[jawillwill]

They'll have to do it without James Rodriguez

 

Probably a blessing in disguise for them really given how gash he was for West Brom last season.

[doddisalegend]

Its a short tournament we didn't need to rest players ffs. In a set up like this winning breeds momentum It would have been much better to have the 1st 11 get another game together to build partnerships and get another goal or two for Kane. Finishing the group 9 pts unbeaten would have been good for the squad to.

 

All this trying to figure out the easiest route to the final is ridiculous because if you want to win it you are going to have to beat someone good at some point and thete aren't going to be an easy games from now on anyway.

[CB Fry]

Its a short tournament we didn't need to rest players ffs. In a set up like this winning breeds momentum It would have been much better to have the 1st 11 get another game together to build partnerships and get another goal or two for Kane. Finishing the group 9 pts unbeaten would have been good for the squad to.

 

All this trying to figure out the easiest route to the final is ridiculous because if you want to win it you are going to have to beat someone good at some point and thete aren't going to be an easy games from now on anyway.

Quite. We're not good enough to win it so ridiculous to plot theoretical routes to the final.

 

Feels to me weve chucked away the chance of a Brazil quarter-final, an actual iconic match that this team and English fans really need, for the likely elimination to one of three countries who in the public consciousness are "flipping-Iceland" level of dullness and mediocrity.

 

If we do make the semis, then great but I think all we'll end up with is a collective loathing for James Rodriguez or Shaquiri or whoever as a new bete noire of English football when they bang us out. Pointless waste.

[trousers]

Really? The result we wanted? I would have preferred to play Japan rather Colombia

 

If we're concerned about the difference between Japan and Columbia at this stage of the tournament then we're not going to get close to winning the thing whatever side of the draw we ended up in.

 

Southgate played it right IMO

Edited 29 June, 2018 by trousers

[Useful Idiot]

Its a short tournament we didn't need to rest players ffs. In a set up like this winning breeds momentum It would have been much better to have the 1st 11 get another game together to build partnerships and get another goal or two for Kane. Finishing the group 9 pts unbeaten would have been good for the squad to.

 

Every team that had already qualified for the knockout stages before the last match rested players in their final group game. Japan weren't even through and rested their first choice attacking lineup which is why they were so toothless against Poland.

 

From what I've seen, Japan look a better, more organised team than Colombia anyway, and they have great cohesiveness and an established style of play whereas Colombia look quite disjointed.

 

I think playing against Japan in 40 degree heat would have been much tougher than playing against Colombia in cooler conditions. There's no guarantee that we'll beat them, but I don't think our chances of progressing have been made substantially worse from our reserves having lost to Belgium's reserves.

[scotty]

I'm perfectly happy with it. It's about time we did something cynical for a change, if losing that uninjured gave us a more favourable potential shot at it then great. This momentum stuff is all very nice, but I'd rather have a better percentage chance than the vague idea of momentum in the tournament. The players know full well we didn't field our strongest eleven, so confidence shouldn't be an issue.

[northam soul]

They should re draw once the group stages are over to stop this kind of thing happening, all the group winners get drawn to play all the second place teams.

People may of paid thousands just to go and see that game though I know nobody gives a **** about fans.

[sadoldgit]

Who gives a **** - it’s a clean slate starting Saturday.

 

Plenty of people judging by the many negative reactions expressed by those unhappy at us putting out a B team. So what if it’s a clean slate? That team will not appear in any of the knock out matches. Rest a couple by all means but given all the talk about the importance of continuity (God knows there is another grief on here when managers keep tinkering with line ups) we have wasted an opportunity of giving most of the main players another 90 mins to help cement our game plans. And just think what it would have done for our confidence if we had won. Managers talk of building a winning mentality. You don’t do that by losing matches.

[Batman]

I think being through, Southgate/England were happy with either scenario so gave those who have not played some game time.

 

Top the group, set up a mouth watering quarter final with Brazil. As we are in 2nd, a potential route to a semi final.

 

Win/win really. Brazil in the quarters or a semi final.

 

The only loss would have been Kane, Walker, Lingard, Trippier, Dele getting injured or suspended after last night.

[LGTL]

If we're concerned about the difference between Japan and Columbia at this stage of the tournament then we're not going to get close to winning the thing whatever side of the draw we ended up in.

 

Southgate played it right IMO

 

Exactly. If we lose to Colombia then Brazil would have absolutely killed us. That isn't disrespectful to Colombia, they could well beat us, but it's just fact.

 

I'm not interested in glamour ties, I want England to have the best possible chance to reach a World Cup semi-final. When we lost to Brazil in 02 I can't remember anyone saying how pleased they were with the result and that thank god we went out to Brazil rather then beat Hungary or whoever. For all the talk of momentum and other ********, we have to beat two of Colombia, Sweden and Switzerland. Who wouldn't have taken that beforehand?

 

For what it's worth, I think we'll do it and reach the semis.

[SKD]

Exactly. If we lose to Colombia then Brazil would have absolutely killed us. That isn't disrespectful to Colombia, they could well beat us, but it's just fact.

 

I'm not interested in glamour ties, I want England to have the best possible chance to reach a World Cup semi-final. When we lost to Brazil in 02 I can't remember anyone saying how pleased they were with the result and that thank god we went out to Brazil rather then beat Hungary or whoever. For all the talk of momentum and other ********, we have to beat two of Colombia, Sweden and Switzerland. Who wouldn't have taken that beforehand?

 

For what it's worth, I think we'll do it and reach the semis.

 

Bang on IMO.

[Saint Billy]

God, some of you are complete ****ing idiots. Great result, we now have Columbia, Switzerland or Sweden standing before us and a semi final. Who wouldn’t have taken that beforehand?

 

I want us to win it so bad, not just because I’m a proud Englishman but because it’ll show some of you lot up for the plums you are. Every single player deserves to be there, every single one.

 

 

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Yes we have the easier route agreed but I am p*ssed at how we lost to Belgium, they should have won by more despite the fact that they made one more change than us.

 

As for Alexander Arnold, why the hell was he given the responsibility of taking corners and free kicks, he couldn't lift the ball 12 inches off the ground.

It was generally a poor show from all of them and was basically a typical England display.

 

If we were going to win the WC I would of preferred we did in style by winning every game, and despite knocking in 6 against pub team Panama we didn't look world beaters.

 

So in total opposite to you, although I too am a proud Englishman I am not convinced enough yet to put on those rose tinted glasses and get carried away with the hype, yes we may have a slghtly easier group than Belgium but this is England were talking about with too many major f*ck ups in the past to win my confidence.

[CB Fry]

Exactly. If we lose to Colombia then Brazil would have absolutely killed us. That isn't disrespectful to Colombia, they could well beat us, but it's just fact.

 

I'm not interested in glamour ties, I want England to have the best possible chance to reach a World Cup semi-final. When we lost to Brazil in 02 I can't remember anyone saying how pleased they were with the result and that thank god we went out to Brazil rather then beat Hungary or whoever. For all the talk of momentum and other ********, we have to beat two of Colombia, Sweden and Switzerland. Who wouldn't have taken that beforehand?

 

For what it's worth, I think we'll do it and reach the semis.

 

When we lost in 02 we hadn't failed to win a knock out match in a major tournament for 12 years, lost to Iceland two years before and bombed out in the group stage of the previous world cup. Different scenario.

 

Indeed Colombia might well beat us, so maybe we should have looked at the best possible chance to win a single knock out game rather than look to far ahead to a semi final we aren't good enough to deserve anyway.

[Lighthouse]

When we lost in 02 we hadn't failed to win a knock out match in a major tournament for 12 years, lost to Iceland two years before and bombed out in the group stage of the previous world cup. Different scenario.

 

Indeed Colombia might well beat us, so maybe we should have looked at the best possible chance to win a single knock out game rather than look to far ahead to a semi final we aren't good enough to deserve anyway.

 

Am I misunderstanding your post, we lost to Germany and Argentina in '96 and '98?

[Batman]

Am I misunderstanding your post, we lost to Germany and Argentina in '96 and '98?

 

I think we drew those games and won via another means.

[CB Fry]

Am I misunderstanding your post, we lost to Germany and Argentina in '96 and '98?

 

In 2002 we'd won a knock out match only days before we lost to Brazil, 3-0 v Denmark. 12 years is longer than that.

 

In 96 we got to the semis - we progressed through a knockout round.

Edited 29 June, 2018 by CB Fry

[Lighthouse]

In 2002 we'd won a knock out match only days before we lost to Brazil, 3-0 v Denmark. 12 years is longer than that.

 

In 96 we got to the semis - we progressed through a knockout round.

 

With you now. I thought you were suggesting we hadn't lost a knockout game since Italia 90, when we played Brasil in '02.

[Batman]

Just see their goal again

Rose was terrible for it

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Just see their goal again

Rose was terrible for it

 

He is terrible so thankfully he wont play again bar injuries

[Saint Albert]

In 2002 we'd won a knock out match only days before we lost to Brazil, 3-0 v Denmark. 12 years is longer than that.

 

In 96 we got to the semis - we progressed through a knockout round.

 

We even won a penalty shootout in ‘96.

[alpine_saint]

We didn't exactly turn to the bench desperate to turn it around.

 

My thinking too. Made think the England backroom staff got exactly what they wanted.

 

I do hope we havent dropped a clanger and underestimated Colombia.

[Saint Albert]

He is terrible so thankfully he wont play again bar injuries

 

Rose is overrated, and Ashley Young is not a very good LB. England have some problems in that position.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Rose is overrated, and Ashley Young is not a very good LB. England have some problems in that position.

 

True, but to be honest i don`t think our defence as a whole is up to much overall....

Edited 29 June, 2018 by ALWAYS_SFC

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don’t understand why people aren’t absolutely delighted with how things panned out. Before the tournament it looked like Germany or Brazil in the quarter finals, to have ended up with Switzerland or Sweden has to be a dream. Yes Columbia is a tougher game than Japan, but **** me the next ones a lot easier than Brazil.

 

If it was an FA cup run you’d take Crystal Palace , followed by Derby or Leeds as opposed to Charlton followed by Man City to get into a semi final.

 

For me you’re in it to win it. I don’t care if we lose to Columbia in the round of 16 or Brazil in the round of 8, they’re just the same to me. Just because one involves beating Japan doesn’t suddenly make it a better campaign. That’s been the problem for years, people still wet their pants over us beating Cameroon in ‘90. Still bang on about ‘96, when the truth is we underperformed in both tournaments. If you don’t get to the final, you might as well go home with the Germans, losing in a quarter or semi should be meaningless, not open top bus parade time ala ‘90. Beat 2 out of 3 average sides and we’re one game against top quality opposition from a final, beat a useless side and we’ve got 2 top quality sides to beat to achieve that.

 

 

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Edited 29 June, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[Lets B Avenue]

I was gutted when Wigan beat Man City and we couldn't experience the thrill of being soundly beaten at The Etihad in the 6th Rd.

 

Gutted.

[whelk]

Of the last 16 WC semifinalists (last 4 Tournaments) every one of them won their final group game. #momentumcounts

[whelk]

And why do so many not have a clue it is Colombia? Columbia is not a fcking country.

[whelk]

I don’t understand why people aren’t absolutely delighted with how things panned out. Before the tournament it looked like Germany or Brazil in the quarter finals, to have ended up with Switzerland or Sweden has to be a dream. Yes Columbia is a tougher game than Japan, but **** me the next ones a lot easier than Brazil.

 

If it was an FA cup run you’d take Crystal Palace , followed by Derby or Leeds as opposed to Charlton followed by Man City to get into a semi final.

 

For me you’re in it to win it. I don’t care if we lose to Columbia in the round of 16 or Brazil in the round of 8, they’re just the same to me. Just because one involves beating Japan doesn’t suddenly make it a better campaign. That’s been the problem for years, people still wet their pants over us beating Cameroon in ‘90. Still bang on about ‘96, when the truth is we underperformed in both tournaments. If you don’t get to the final, you might as well go home with the Germans, losing in a quarter or semi should be meaningless, not open top bus parade time ala ‘90. Beat 2 out of 3 average sides and we’re one game against top quality opposition from a final, beat a useless side and we’ve got 2 top quality sides to beat to achieve that.

 

 

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underperformed against what criteria? I know in your little UKIP world you probably think we are the greatest football nation on the planet but we are not.

 

Surprised you give a sh1t about Saints with that criteria. Win the league of go home eh. Starting to put you in the Glasgow camp of tiresome troll.

[Dark Munster]

They should re draw once the group stages are over to stop this kind of thing happening, all the group winners get drawn to play all the second place teams.

People may of paid thousands just to go and see that game though I know nobody gives a **** about fans.

That's good in theory, but not practical. Teams playing on the last day of group matches (such as us) may have only a day rest before the knockout match if the draw is unfavourable. What they should do is have total shots on target the tie-breaker, instead of yellows, when everything else is the same.

[CB Fry]

I don’t understand why people aren’t absolutely delighted with how things panned out. Before the tournament it looked like Germany or Brazil in the quarter finals, to have ended up with Switzerland or Sweden has to be a dream. Yes Columbia is a tougher game than Japan, but **** me the next ones a lot easier than Brazil.

 

If it was an FA cup run you’d take Crystal Palace , followed by Derby or Leeds as opposed to Charlton followed by Man City to get into a semi final.

 

For me you’re in it to win it. I don’t care if we lose to Columbia in the round of 16 or Brazil in the round of 8, they’re just the same to me. Just because one involves beating Japan doesn’t suddenly make it a better campaign. That’s been the problem for years, people still wet their pants over us beating Cameroon in ‘90. Still bang on about ‘96, when the truth is we underperformed in both tournaments. If you don’t get to the final, you might as well go home with the Germans, losing in a quarter or semi should be meaningless, not open top bus parade time ala ‘90. Beat 2 out of 3 average sides and we’re one game against top quality opposition from a final, beat a useless side and we’ve got 2 top quality sides to beat to achieve that.

 

 

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This is all over the place.

 

If you write off '90 and '96 as failures, why are you bothered about our route through this tournament?

 

Ultimately we will encounter France or Spain or Brazil and we'll lose and come home, so we might as well be home with the Germans now, in your words.

 

And weird that your dismissal of those two 90s tournaments as "underachieving" but you then describe the idea that we "beat 2 out of 3 average sides and we’re one game against top quality opposition from a final". Also known as, er, a semi final. Being one game away from a final is underachieving so who gives a sh it, right?

 

4 years ago Germany beat Portugal, France, Brazil and Argentina and won the thing. They didn't ponce about wetting themselves being "absolutely delighted" over easy draws.

Edited 29 June, 2018 by CB Fry

[Saint Billy]

I don’t understand why people aren’t absolutely delighted with how things panned out. Before the tournament it looked like Germany or Brazil in the quarter finals, to have ended up with Switzerland or Sweden has to be a dream. Yes Columbia is a tougher game than Japan, but **** me the next ones a lot easier than Brazil.

 

If it was an FA cup run you’d take Crystal Palace , followed by Derby or Leeds as opposed to Charlton followed by Man City to get into a semi final.

 

For me you’re in it to win it. I don’t care if we lose to Columbia in the round of 16 or Brazil in the round of 8, they’re just the same to me. Just because one involves beating Japan doesn’t suddenly make it a better campaign. That’s been the problem for years, people still wet their pants over us beating Cameroon in ‘90. Still bang on about ‘96, when the truth is we underperformed in both tournaments. If you don’t get to the final, you might as well go home with the Germans, losing in a quarter or semi should be meaningless, not open top bus parade time ala ‘90. Beat 2 out of 3 average sides and we’re one game against top quality opposition from a final, beat a useless side and we’ve got 2 top quality sides to beat to achieve that.

 

 

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Christ you do bang on when some people see it differently than you.

[Cabbage_Face]

I don’t understand why people aren’t absolutely delighted with how things panned out. Before the tournament it looked like Germany or Brazil in the quarter finals, to have ended up with Switzerland or Sweden has to be a dream. Yes Columbia is a tougher game than Japan, but **** me the next ones a lot easier than Brazil.

 

If it was an FA cup run you’d take Crystal Palace , followed by Derby or Leeds as opposed to Charlton followed by Man City to get into a semi final.

 

For me you’re in it to win it. I don’t care if we lose to Columbia in the round of 16 or Brazil in the round of 8, they’re just the same to me. Just because one involves beating Japan doesn’t suddenly make it a better campaign. That’s been the problem for years, people still wet their pants over us beating Cameroon in ‘90. Still bang on about ‘96, when the truth is we underperformed in both tournaments. If you don’t get to the final, you might as well go home with the Germans, losing in a quarter or semi should be meaningless, not open top bus parade time ala ‘90. Beat 2 out of 3 average sides and we’re one game against top quality opposition from a final, beat a useless side and we’ve got 2 top quality sides to beat to achieve that.

 

 

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Be interesting to see your view after Switzerland knock us out. We’ve chose the pussy route.

 

 

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[aintforever]

Resting the first team was a no brainer, that’s why Belgium did it as well. It wasn’t a case of choosing a route, just resting players when they had the chance because there was nothing really worth playing for.

 

All this momentum stuff is just ********, there is more to gain by having fresh legs and no injuries than momentum- that’s why virtually all Prem teams rest players for less important cup games. **** me, it’s not rocket science.

 

Where we are positioned in the draw now gives us the best chance to get to a final I can remember. Croatia look decent but Spain havn’t been great and all the others are beatable. Previous World Cups we’ve always had a Brazil, Germany, Argentina or Renaldo’s Portugal in our way. We could very easily go out next round but Southgate has done this right, it’s worth a shot.

[Lord Duckhunter]

underperformed against what criteria? I know in your little UKIP world you probably think we are the greatest football nation on the planet but we are not.

 

Surprised you give a sh1t about Saints with that criteria. Win the league of go home eh. Starting to put you in the Glasgow camp of tiresome troll.

 

Underperformed in ‘96 at home when there were some pretty average sides involved. Everybody wet themselves over beating Holland, but it was pretty much a dead rubber, both sides went through. One of Germany’s poorer sides won it. ‘90 was a mess until a last min win against the mighty Belgium and then 2 pens to scrape past a naive Cameroon. The reaction to those losing campaigns was quite frankly embarrassing, nearly as bad as the continued whinging about a hand ball 30 years ago.

 

 

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[striker]

We're going to the semifinals at least!

[Cabbage_Face]

Really not looking forward to France v Argentina. Hope they prove me wrong

 

 

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[whelk]

Really not looking forward to France v Argentina. Hope they prove me wrong

 

 

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Aren’t you? Opposite for me but had a drought for one day. Fancy Argentina for some reason