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Key things you would do next season?

ally_uk

By ally_uk,
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Mltburger

Mltburger

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Given that we have hopefully escaped relegation in one of the poorest seasons when all bar the top six along with Burnley have at some point flirted with relagation, it still amazes me that some claim our squad isn't that Bad!

 

For the last 3 seasons we have lowered our expectations, accepting last season squad player, as this season first team regular.

 

When we had Schneiderlin and Wanyama, Romeu was considered a squad player, now he's our main midfielder. When we had Fonte and Van Dyke, the crowd would wince if Yoshida came on, now we prey he's fit enough to play. We've lowered our bar so many times, we have forgotten where it should be. I'm not claiming we should be expecting top 6 players, but we shouldn't be accepting players that wouldn't look out of place in a Brighton or Huddersfield team either.

 

Sometimes we are too nice, always giving a player the benefit of the doubt for far too long because they had one good game, ignoring the many indifferent ones.

Redman and Ward Prowse have had several managers and still cannot get a regular starting place, yet some still think they can come good.

Similarly Targett has had one decent season in the Championship, but wasn't good enough for the Premiership, yet now some think he can replace Bertrand. I'm not saying they are awful, but what standard are we aiming for? They may do a job in a quality team, but playing too many "ok" players will put us in the same situation next season.

 

This attitude of "making do" has ultimately been our undoing. And if we are to sack Reed, then it is for this reason rather than his transfer dealings.

 

Sometimes we need a little context, because as poor as our recent transfer dealings have been, what other club outside the top six over the last 3/4 seasons have recruited well? This season many clubs have spent the same, if not more than Saints, yet all have been in the relagation zone, and many have recruited poor managers, sometimes more than once!

 

Reeds crime, like many fans has been "making do" hoping that what we have left when we sell, will come good. We did it with Fonte, we did it when lost Pelle, Mane and JRod, keeping our fingers crossed that we could get away with what was left.

 

If we don't want a repeat of last season, we need to accept when a player is not of sufficient quality and act in a timely manner instead of waiting too long. Also there is nothing wrong with buying potential, but we must recognise it will only work if they are blended with proven quality. Get the mix wrong and your asking for trouble.

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BotleySaint

BotleySaint

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Now we are safe we can all look forward to a long drawn out transfer window where we fail to sign a CB and adequate replacements at the laat minute and go into next year frustrated with the same squad :)

 

Reed probably thinks this survival proves we have enough.

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Winnersaint

Winnersaint

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I am strong believer that form is carried through from season to season. Do not forget how Leicester went at the end of 2015 into 2015/16. By the same token our dire end of season form under Puel seemed to very much shape the beginning of this season. Looking forward to a positive start to next season.

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Pilchards

Pilchards

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I am strong believer that form is carried through from season to season. Do not forget how Leicester went at the end of 2015 into 2015/16. By the same token our dire end of season form under Puel seemed to very much shape the beginning of this season. Looking forward to a positive start to next season.

 

 

Thats how how I see it too.

Needs tweaking plus we need a speedy winger, good striker and a strong central defender.

If I had to get one more in then it would be a captain in the centre of midfield.

 

Out go Long, Yoshida, Redmond and Davis.

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ally_uk

ally_uk

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That Striker at Celtic Dembers

That midfielder at Celtic Armstrong replacement for Davis.

New right back for Pied? Any decent championship youngish players? Cyrus Christie?

Luke Shaw for Bertrand if he goes.

Christian Julian / Diop ( new centre back )

 

Ambitious Signings

 

Promes and Sisto

 

Sell Bertrand, Gabbadini, Long, Boufal to fund...

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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NO!

 

Do that and we will be this season's Stoke in no time. Get rid of Reed and get another DOF (what is Paul Mitchell up to these days?). 2 CB, Promes and a striker is the absolute minimum needed.

 

Exactly. I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of the 'club' controlling transfers. The manager should obviously identify what he feels the squad are missing, but I'm not sure he should be the one picking precisely which players we go for. It certainly appears to be why Hughes is unpopular at Stoke. It's just that Reed and Wilson haven't been very good at it. All those things that people lauded our club for (fans, outsiders, and the club itself) a couple of seasons ago should still be aspired to, we just need to be better at it.

 

If anything I would prefer the club to have MORE control of the vetting process. It would surely avoid Carrillo situations. Ideal situation to me is: Hughes says "the team is missing someone with X, or needs a player to play X role", the club then find a shortlist of targets, they review the options with Hughes and decide on the best target.

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Cartman

Cartman

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Exactly. I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of the 'club' controlling transfers. The manager should obviously identify what he feels the squad are missing, but I'm not sure he should be the one picking precisely which players we go for. It certainly appears to be why Hughes is unpopular at Stoke. It's just that Reed and Wilson haven't been very good at it. All those things that people lauded our club for (fans, outsiders, and the club itself) a couple of seasons ago should still be aspired to, we just need to be better at it.

 

If anything I would prefer the club to have MORE control of the vetting process. It would surely avoid Carrillo situations. Ideal situation to me is: Hughes says "the team is missing someone with X, or needs a player to play X role", the club then find a shortlist of targets, they review the options with Hughes and decide on the best target.

 

Exactly right. There is nothing wrong with how the club is structured, just that Reed & Wilson should have their performance over the last two years seriously analysed and possibly replaced. Giving Hughes full control and getting rid of a structure that has largely served us well would be a throwing the baby out with the bath water type move, even more so when poor transfer decisions are largely what got Hughes the sack from Stoke in the first place. When a manager does a poor job no one advocates replacing him with no one and giving the players full control. Being a good coach and being a good DOF require different skill sets and it is not often that you will be lucky enough to hire someone who good at both jobs, which is effectively what a traditional full control manager is.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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I am strong believer that form is carried through from season to season. Do not forget how Leicester went at the end of 2015 into 2015/16. By the same token our dire end of season form under Puel seemed to very much shape the beginning of this season. Looking forward to a positive start to next season.

 

except our great format the end of Koeman's last season didn't transfer straight into the start of Puel's season...

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Suomi Saint

Suomi Saint

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Get a couple of real leaders in the team and try and recoup as much as we can on the ‘dross’ Les thinks will come good. Major surgery is needed. I fear that the asset stripping will just continue, although we don’t appear to have too many left.

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Cabrone

Cabrone

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1) Sign up Hughes

2) Get rid of Reed, possibly Kruger too

3) Keep Gabbi if atall possible

4) Sign up a new CH

5) Lose Forster and replace - too expensive if not no 1

6) Lose Redmond and replace - hasn't worked for me

7) Lose Boufal and replace - hasn't worked for me

8) Bring in some leaders, the team is too quiet and anonymous. Need some steel in.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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Don't get the hype around Mawson. Thought he was very poor on Tuesday and a lot of Swansea fans seem happy to get rid of him.

 

Haven't seen enough of him to really comment, so I'd hope our scouts do their homework.

 

I'd like to think there are better options out there and that we've been tracking a few targets in the Lovren/Toby/Virgil mould.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

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Don't believe the team needs huge work at all, it needed strong management and confidence.

 

Mccarthy great, Cedric and Bertrand experienced and good IF they stay. Need a strong CB to come in and help the others. Central midfield plenty of good options just need some form.

 

Tadic and Redmond need to learn from this season and step it up. They need real competition there, maybe Promes, and we need to see more of Sims. Then forwards, I'd like to keep Gabbi, never understand why he doesn't play more. Time for Long to move on though.

 

I think Davis, Boufal, Forster, Long out, loan Carrillo. New back up keeper, top centre back, strong winger, new forward option. Promes and Alcacer have been linked, would love that level of signing. If Toure wants to drop his wages and play for another season then that'd be awesome too.

 

Agree with most of this, although I still think Long could be an asset from the bench and could contribute something in a partnership up top. As more of a squad player, he is worth keeping another season imo

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Dr. Kucho

Dr. Kucho

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We need changes on and of the pitch, since Koeman left we have been in decline and we should have a big summer if we want to avoid another poor season.

 

Of the pitch:

Invest in a new medical and strength and conditioning department.

Bring in a new chairman who can motivate the backroom staff (like him or loath him but Cortese demanded the best from everyone within the club).

Upgrade the acadamy and possibly bring in new coaches.

Upgrade St Mary's.

 

On the pitch:

Try to sell/offload Forster, Boufal, Hoedt, Carrillo, Pied, Bertrand and Clasie

Bring in a new (PL experienced) CB, RB, LB, striker, goalkeeper (back up)

Stop buying reserve players from European clubs and go hunting for real talent in the Championship and L1. Clyne, Lambert, Cork, Rodriguez (pre injury) did well for us coming from the lower leagues.

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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Exactly right. There is nothing wrong with how the club is structured, just that Reed & Wilson should have their performance over the last two years seriously analysed and possibly replaced. Giving Hughes full control and getting rid of a structure that has largely served us well would be a throwing the baby out with the bath water type move, even more so when poor transfer decisions are largely what got Hughes the sack from Stoke in the first place. When a manager does a poor job no one advocates replacing him with no one and giving the players full control. Being a good coach and being a good DOF require different skill sets and it is not often that you will be lucky enough to hire someone who good at both jobs, which is effectively what a traditional full control manager is.

 

Ha, I was going to use the "baby out with the bathwater" line myself but after realising that the 'baby' was an intangible idea and the 'bathwater' was Les Reed, I thought it was too confusing :p

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Tom & Gerry

Tom & Gerry

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We've always had dud transfers (Gaston, Osvaldo) mixed in with some some great ones. It's always a gamble especially when buying from abroad as to whether they will fit in and some players need time (Cedric, Romeu)- is Lemina going to be a great signing or not ? Can we afford to give Boufal more time? Recently we've found it harder to hit the jackpot so I would like us to concentrate on more on lower league players who might cost more but might be more reliable.

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Adkins' Bus

Adkins' Bus

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I would be actively looking to offload Boufal, Carillo and Forster although this will be easier said than done. I would be content with Forster as back up if he wasn't one of our highest earners. Redmond I am in two minds about, I think there is a player in their somewhere but if he is going to be unhappy and disruptive then get rid.

 

Bertrand is the obvious one that might tempt some of the bigger clubs at the moment although they are all pretty well covered in that position. So if we don't lose any key players then I would be looking to add:

 

RB - some serious competition for Cedric is required, i think he has been a weakness this season. He often gets linked with bigger clubs but I just can't see it.

CB - A commanding centre half. I thought Hoedt was meant to be this but the way Abraham held him off the other night was scary.

AM - A Davis replacement essentially but someone that can get a few more than 2 in a season!

Winger - Someone very direct with some real pace.

ST - A target man type please. Austin and Long are ok back options. And I really hope Gabbiadini stays and we can try to get the best out of him.

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trousers

trousers

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Apologies if already posted elsewhere, but I noticed Bertrand speaks about Hughes in the past tense in this Sky interview: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11700/11366835/ryan-bertrand-says-southamptons-relegation-threat-was-wake-up-call

 

Could mean that Bertrand himself knows that he's leaving or perhaps he knows that Hughes won't be staying? Or perhaps its just poor use of the past tense?

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Saint_Ash

Saint_Ash

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Apologies if already posted elsewhere, but I noticed Bertrand speaks about Hughes in the past tense in this Sky interview: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11700/11366835/ryan-bertrand-says-southamptons-relegation-threat-was-wake-up-call

 

Could mean that Bertrand himself knows that he's leaving or perhaps he knows that Hughes won't be staying? Or perhaps its just poor use of the past tense?

 

Not really, I think he's talking about the season as if it's finished snd what Hughes has done to get them over the line. I wouldn't read too much into it.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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I'm resigned to Bertrand going this summer he is the only real saleable player in the squad right now so Les and Co will certainly be looking to sell him. Also wasn't he close to a move last summer? that and the fact he has looked barely bothered most of this season pretty much makes me think he time here is done. I just hope the club don't decide Mat Targett is a good enough replacement...

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

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I'm resigned to Bertrand going this summer he is the only real saleable player in the squad right now so Les and Co will certainly be looking to sell him. Also wasn't he close to a move last summer? that and the fact he has looked barely bothered most of this season pretty much makes me think he time here is done. I just hope the club don't decide Mat Targett is a good enough replacement...

 

Of all of the departures we have seen over the last few years, I will not be too sad to see him go TBH. If he does stay, I hope Hughes or whoever we get to replace him doesn't give him the captaincy next season. He really isn't captain material.

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Dellman

Dellman

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Of all of the departures we have seen over the last few years, I will not be too sad to see him go TBH. If he does stay, I hope Hughes or whoever we get to replace him doesn't give him the captaincy next season. He really isn't captain material.

 

Not sad to see him go? this is what this forum said about Wanyama and Mane

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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Not sad to see him go? this is what this forum said about Wanyama and Mane

 

Actually there are plenty on here who bleat on about it as it we'd sold their own two children. The only reason people say that is because of how poor the replacements have been. Strangely, you don't see people saying that we should never have sold Lovren, Shaw or Lambert because we brought in Toby/Virgil, Bertrand and Pelle.

 

I wont be sad to see Bertrand or anyone else leave, that's 21st century football. I will however be sad if we replace them with absolute dross again.

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cf saint

cf saint

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The squad is not awful but clearly a few need to go and some key players added.

 

The players the club should get out are - Carrillo (as others have said likely loaned); Boufal (flashes not worth the disruption) and Davis (with thanks for great few years). I would like to add Forster to the list but if he is really on the wages claimed I can’t see anyone taking him.

We may lose some or all of Cedric, Bertrand, Gabbi and Yoshida.

 

Irrespective of those or others going we need a quality strong CB that can lead, and, if Yoshi goes, some pace also. I doubt we find one with all three attributes but most important is leadership.

 

Other essentials are some pace (I assume Promes is expected to provide this) and a striker we can hope to get 15 goals plus.

 

So of the typical match day squad it could be 3 or 4 out and 3 in that would be enough to rebalance the squad.

 

On Hughes I think he has done brilliantly but I can’t help thinking like Pilchards on his thread that if we keep him we are accepting mid table mediocrity rather than best outside the big six. That said no gambles on unknowns so if Rogers or someone similarly qualified would come and be announced early in the summer, great. If not Hughes to provide some stability.

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Pilchards

Pilchards

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The squad is not awful but clearly a few need to go and some key players added.

 

The players the club should get out are - Carrillo (as others have said likely loaned); Boufal (flashes not worth the disruption) and Davis (with thanks for great few years). I would like to add Forster to the list but if he is really on the wages claimed I can’t see anyone taking him.

We may lose some or all of Cedric, Bertrand, Gabbi and Yoshida.

 

Irrespective of those or others going we need a quality strong CB that can lead, and, if Yoshi goes, some pace also. I doubt we find one with all three attributes but most important is leadership.

 

Other essentials are some pace (I assume Promes is expected to provide this) and a striker we can hope to get 15 goals plus.

 

So of the typical match day squad it could be 3 or 4 out and 3 in that would be enough to rebalance the squad.

 

On Hughes I think he has done brilliantly but I can’t help thinking like Pilchards on his thread that if we keep him we are accepting mid table mediocrity rather than best outside the big six. That said no gambles on unknowns so if Rogers or someone similarly qualified would come and be announced early in the summer, great. If not Hughes to provide some stability.

 

Exactly my thoughts regarding players out.

We don’t have a bad squad at all, just a lack of direction and confidence.

My doubts are Mark Hughes and his tactical knowledge on the pitch.

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stknowle

stknowle

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1.Keep Hughes 2 year deal. He’s Not the greatest but perfectly adequate to stabilise an above average team in a below average Premier League which is what we are and what the Prem will continue to be next season with the likes of Huddersfield, Brighton, Bournemouth, Watford, Palace, plus the 3 new clubs (though I think Wolves will do well).

2. Try to keep Cedric and Bertrand. Used correctly - as Hughes has - and on form they are both top drawer wingbacks, will be a major issue trying to replace both adequately.

3. Get experienced CB who’s good in the air and is a leader and organiser (no idea who ticks all those boxes and is attainable maybe Evans). Jan and probably Hoedt can cut it but not on their own or just with Yoshida who I would still keep on. Stephens could be a decent utility player, still think midfield may suit him best but could fill in at cb or rb in emergencies.

4. Buy a number 10/creative midfielder who can score. You won’t get better than Shaquiri for the 12m he’s reportedly available for.

5. Buy a new striker to be the player to fill the role Carillo was meant to but has shown no capabilities of doing.

 

All the above assumes no further outgoings which there obviously will be. Expect Gabb and probably Tadic will go at a minimum, I would keep both despite being **** all season until Hughes came in.

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whelk

whelk

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I would appoint Hughes. Go very much for quality over quantity signings. Sell off players he doesn't want like Boufal, Davis.

 

As Hughes said when he arrived, there's a lot of quality here. This wasn't some plucky survival fight, it was mass underperformance. Plenty will learn from it and well managed can do a great job. Hoedt, Stephens and Bednarek all have potential IMO, but need someone stronger next to them. That's the biggest signing we need to make.

 

CMs I think we have great depth. Not going to write any of them off based on Pellegrino's management. Romeu, Lemina, Hojbjerg, JWP are all decent and need games.

 

Attackers, I want Gabbiadini involved more. Austin will have his purple patches and injuries. The area to sort is creativity. Redmond should stay, Hughes likes him and he can get better. Tadic needs a better season and we need competition for both. If Promes then great. Sims also needs some games.

 

So there isn't that much to do. I think/hope the corner has been turned under Hughes. We've already solved the keeper problem. Sign a CB and Promes and we'll have a better squad than most outside the top 6. Only issue is if the full backs want out and need replacing.

 

Changed your opinion on McCarthy yet?

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norwaysaint

norwaysaint

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I'm really surprised I see so many people wanting Yoshida out. Where on Earth would we find a better centre back who wouldn't complain when he has to sit on the bench, yet isn't lazy and only there for the patcheck? I think we've been really lucky having such a decent player as back up who always puts in a shift when called on. Definitely keep. We won't improve on someone to fill his role.

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stknowle

stknowle

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I'm really surprised I see so many people wanting Yoshida out. Where on Earth would we find a better centre back who wouldn't complain when he has to sit on the bench, yet isn't lazy and only there for the patcheck? I think we've been really lucky having such a decent player as back up who always puts in a shift when called on. Definitely keep. We won't improve on someone to fill his role.

 

Yes would definitely keep him, he’s capable of being a regular starter in a three as long as he’s deputy not sheriff. He is still annoyingly capable of **** poor defending at times exhibit 1 pathetic attempted block v Arsenal.

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Bit of a plonker

Bit of a plonker

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I fear a lot of complacency on this thread with regards to our squad strength. As poor as Pellegrino and Puel were, and by god they were both incredibly poor, we do have major problems at both ends of the pitch if we want to sustain good form over an entire season, and not be in exactly the same situation next year. How many times did Sunderland scrape together escapes, before they eventually fell through the floor?

 

None of our current centre backs are good enough to be premier league starters. Bednarek has been decent since he came in, but no more than that. Yoshi is probably our best defender, but he is always good for a howler. Hoedt and Stephens should be back ups. We need 2 good, strong leaders in the middle of defence. We are also likely to lose Bertrand, so we ideally need a replacement there, because I am not convinced Matt Targett is good enough to be regular starter. Decent back up though. So, probably 3 defenders needed. I would not be averse to selling 2 of Hoedt, Stephens, Bednarek or Yoshi to fund new players, providing those players are starters.

 

Up front, we need more goals. Get shot of Carillo and one of Long, Gabbi, Gallagher or Austin. Need a strong leader of the line, a new Rickie Lambert.

 

Behind them, none of Redmond, Tadic or Boufal have been consistent enough. I would sell Boufal, because he looks to have cooked his goose with Hughes and the rest of the players, and get someone in to replace. I assume Promes is or was lined up to be this person, although whenever I have seen him play for Holland, he has not really impressed me at all.

 

I would not be surprised if Forster pushes for a move, he can't be happy being number 2. We would need to replace him as well, assuming he gets a move away.

 

So, looking at possibly 7 out (2 defenders plus reluctantly Bertrand, Boufal, Forster, Carillo and another striker). Bring 5 quality replacements in, 4 starters and a good back up keeper who is not a step down for if/when needed. Looks like a big summer to me.

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shurlock

shurlock

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People seem very quick to criticise the exact same things that got us Van Dijk, Alderweireld, Mane, Tadic etc in the first place.

 

It'll never be perfect, it never was with Osvaldo, Clasie, even Forster. But we were a good side, easily top half, 6th at one stage, because we were well managed.

 

Hojbjerg, Lemina, Hoedt, Gabbiadini are far from awful signings. All have talent, you can see why we bought them. But under abysmal management they struggled. As have Romeu, Bertrand, Cedric, even Van Dijk this season. Players who have proven they are plenty good enough for top half finishes suddenly become rubbish. The answer isn't to cast them all aside and start again.You find a manager who can actually build an effective team from them and motivate the players.

 

It's mind boggling if people genuinely think Burnley, Newcastle, Watford, Bournemouth etc have these amazing talented squads because they're mid table. Sooooo many average players around.

 

#deluded

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