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Finally, the long-overdue 2018/19 kit thread...

The9

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The9

The9

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You are right looking back. I guess my thinking was isn't the point of having a new kit every season to make money from replica sales?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I agree they should have sold the three third kits we have had in the past 4 years that didn't go on sale. Would have saved me over £700 for a start.

 

I voted btw.

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The9

The9

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It does say something that amateurs with photoshop regularly produce far faarrrr better designs than what the 'professionals' do for a measley £50 a pop.

 

This is vom inducing and the third kit is just a cash grab, hope the club / UA make a loss on it.

 

Although those that are wishing for Adidas back have very short memories, the Poch season kit was the worst ever Saints home shirt, no contest at all.

 

That said id take a **** kit and a fantastic season over a beautiful kit and a **** season.

 

Tbf amateurs with photoshop don't have to meet the daft ar5e Premier League regulations or come up with 7 different shirts that are different enough to all sell individually. Though if UA don't manage a candy-stripes kit at some point they're missing a trick.

 

Anyway, the red and black training shirts and tracksuit top look nice.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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Looks pretty amateurish, like 2 kits sewn together at the front. Why not have the stripes go all the way up? Also the widened stripe around the UA logo looks like it was drawn by a 5 year old.

 

I'll pass thanks, may be tempted by the away shirt if it's decent.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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I understand your point, however the red sash kit was one of our most popular. Demand for that third kit to be on sale was high even before we played the EFL Cup Final in it, after that I saw a large volume of people asking for it to be on sale to us. Maybe it wouldn't have been the right thing to do, but I've a feeling we might have sold a few more of those than we will these.

 

I might be wrong, I'm running a Twitter poll to get an idea if you're interested.

 

https://twitter.com/owen_thesaints/status/1005368365416878080?s=21

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If we came our and said from now on our kit is the sash and we firmly committed to it for, say, five consecutive seasons then fine. It's unique and would be interesting if we tried to own that look.

 

The sash kit is still not plain white, and what you're advocating is not the sash kit.

 

The demand for the white cup final kit is a red herring. It was a late development and we couldn't get it to market in time, so it was concentrated demand from completists and keenos who wanted the memento.

 

No evidence that if that became our home kit the demand for that would be greater than for the home kits we've released over the last few seasons.

Edited by CB Fry
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The9

The9

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In case anyone cba to read UEFA's regs, all the stuff about contrast and a billion other faffy regulations are here: https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/75/63/78/1756378_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

A bit of research says that the calculation UEFA (and now the Premier League) are interested in for shirt back is "Delta L", which is where the colours are on the light and dark scale measured by position on a colour wheel.

 

From the regulations:

 

"Number-zone colours In order to be approved, the contrast between shirt

colours in the number zone must be less than or

equal to a Delta L of 25. Colour combinations with a

Delta L value greater than 25 are considered as

contrast colours and require a neutral patch on the

back of the shirt. "

 

Konica defines the Delta L value as this:

identifying-color-differences-using-l-a-b-or-l-c-h-coordinates-wjb6sb2445.png

 

ΔL* (L* sample minus L* standard) = difference in lightness and darkness (+ = lighter, - = darker)

 

So there's a number value given to how different the number colour and shirt colour need to be. And our red and a black number doesn't cut it.

 

I shall leave you with the word "spectrophotometer". :rolleyes:

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

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Compare what we get with this mock up.

 

FWIW I don't like any of those mock ups much. The light blue one is ok, the black away is ok, the home one is bloody awful and the blue trim is particularly poor for a Saints shirt.

 

Weirdly I actually like the look of the actual new home shirt with the blue away shorts though, just for a moment there I was thinking "oh blimey, they've done it now"...

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The9

The9

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If we came our and said from now on our kit is the sash and we firmly committed to it for, say, five consecutive seasons then fine. It's unique and would be interesting if we tried to own that look.

 

I think they'd really struggle to sell 5 years' worth of different sash kits though - it's one of those things where the sash is the defining characteristic, and people who like the sash kit will just buy one sash kit.

 

For some reason in my head that's different to people who like Saints kits buying multiple striped ones... I dunno...

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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I think they'd really struggle to sell 5 years' worth of different sash kits though - it's one of those things where the sash is the defining characteristic, and people who like the sash kit will just buy one sash kit.

 

For some reason in my head that's different to people who like Saints kits buying multiple striped ones... I dunno...

Surprised it's you saying that with your in-depth knowledge of cross-stiched underarm ventilation collars or whatever it is you go on about...

 

Arsenal can do infinite variations on red shirt white sleeves or Celtic or Spurs or actually anyone - it could be done, I can think of about ten in my head already.

 

But we won't do it of course.

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The9

The9

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Here's the detail from Annex D in the UEFA regs for your amusement/bemusement... it is assumed that the Premier League is now using these regulations too (though it'll be interesting to see if any of the promoted teams use striped away kits as none of them have striped homes this time around). The whole of the SIXTY-SEVEN page doc is about kit regulations, this is just the most technical bit around colour clash and contrast measurements.

 

ANNEX D: Colour and contrast-related terms

Using a spectrophotometer UEFA may measure the values of the colour, the reflectivity and the contrast of the various colours used on a kit. This method helps to ensure

better legibility of the numbers against the background colours and to avoid reflectivity of colours, and also provides an objective means of decision-making.

1. Spectrophotometer An instrument that measures the spectral reflectance.

2. Measurement method The measurements are to be recorded using a spherical spectrophotometer with an aperture of 6.6 mm and a measurement area of 4mm on a white-point of D65 and Standard Observers Angle of 10°. All sample measurements are an average of three readings, 0°, 90° and 45°. A spectrally neutral 18% Reflectance Grey Card must be laced under the single layer of fabric to be measured.

3. Delta E Delta E is a formula to calculate the difference between a pair of measured colour samples. The Delta E CMC 2:1 equation is used by UEFA to determine the colours of decorative elements.

4. Delta L Delta L is a formula used to calculate the difference in light between a pair of measured colour samples. UEFA may use it to determine the contrast of colour.

5. Number-zone colours In order to be approved, the contrast between shirt colours in the number zone must be less than or equal to a Delta L of 25. Colour combinations with a

Delta L value greater than 25 are considered as contrast colours and require a neutral patch on the back of the shirt.

6. Contrast to player numbers

In order to be approved, a player number must contrast with its background colour(s) in the number zone. A number must contrast by a Delta L value equal to or higher than 30.

7. Decorative elements In order to be approved, a decorative element as defined in Article 12 has to differ from the shirt colour(s) by a Delta E CMC 2:1 value of up to 10 maximum. The background colour will be measured before the decorative element.

8. Reflective effect No kit item (including player numbers) must be too reflective.

In order to be approved, the spectral gain of a material used must be less than 0.009 (representing as “spectral Gain x 100’ being lower than 0.9). Spectral gain is defined as the average positive difference of the specular-excluded subtracted from the specular-including readings, within the range of 400 to 700 nanometers at 10 nanometer intervals.

 

:scared:

Edited by The9
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Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

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Not as bad as the Poortvleit/Pardew kit, which was just terrible on many levels. It was quite the metaphor for our worst season in recent history.

 

This one?

 

bbd0448295c825e1f2ac94ea205c3654--football-shirts-southampton.jpg

 

Probably one of my favourite Saints kits in recent times. And not that unsuccessful a kit, we won at Wembley wearing it!

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The9

The9

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Surprised it's you saying that with your in-depth knowledge of cross-stiched underarm ventilation collars or whatever it is you go on about...

 

Arsenal can do infinite variations on red shirt white sleeves or Celtic or Spurs or actually anyone - it could be done, I can think of about ten in my head already.

 

But we won't do it of course.

 

Yeah, I notice detail - but I think there's something around "we know it will be stripes, oh there's a sash one, I'll get that", that doesn't remain the case if the sash becomes the de facto - we'd lose a load of sales from people going "oh another sash" which we wouldn't with "oh another stripe".

 

What I mean isn't that we can't create distinctive sash designs, just that they might not have as much impact on the casual buyer after the first one. At some point in there what becomes the norm changes, and you get the "return to stripes" boost that currently a one-off sash would get.

 

I'd be more interested to see what happens if a club committed to not changing their shirt design for 5 years, whether they'd shift more shirts to people knowing they wouldn't have to buy another for 5 years, or whether they'd just massively lose out on revenue from the "buy anything" idiots like me. I suspect the latter, because no-one has tried it, even though NFL teams go years at a time without changing uniform brand or style. My NFL jersey is into its 4th year of relevance (unlike the player on the back, which I suspect is how the NFL teams keep selling jerseys of the same design).

 

It's a different model, probably tied up with image rights somehow - I wonder if any Prem side would refuse to sell shirts without a name and number but keep the design the same for multiple seasons to exploit the same model?

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The9

The9

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This one?

 

bbd0448295c825e1f2ac94ea205c3654--football-shirts-southampton.jpg

 

Probably one of my favourite Saints kits in recent times. And not that unsuccessful a kit, we won at Wembley wearing it!

 

Yeah, love that one, despite the plasticky tacked-on sponsor patch and weird red shoulder detailing it was unique and stylish (as football kits go). Also the last home shirt to last more than one season.

 

The last away shirt to do so was the yellow aap3 Umbro from the Championship promotion season, and even that only made a second season because the all white away kit in the return to Premier League season was only of any use in one away match and we needed to keep the yellow shirt because of it. Another genius Cortese decision: to sell the yellow off for £15 in April in a clearance sale and then not have it available to buy at all the following season when we wore it about 10 times.

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The9

The9

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They have removed that page now !

 

Yeah, noticed it wasn't finding "Southampton" or "replica" when I looked about half an hour ago. Took a bunch of phone screenshots earlier though, you know how it is. :)

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Dusic

Dusic

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Top half of that shirt is an absolute mess but at the end of the day its a shirt and people only talk about it because there are no games (or transfers).

 

The last one was generally liked, but after a week of the announcement nobody commented on the kit again because its largely irrelevant.

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The9

The9

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Top half of that shirt is an absolute mess but at the end of the day its a shirt and people only talk about it because there are no games (or transfers).

 

The last one was generally liked, but after a week of the announcement nobody commented on the kit again because its largely irrelevant.

 

Mostly because UA are quite good at not giving away clues until they want to and when there's no change in supplier or sponsor there's not much to discuss. The seasons we had plain red kits (including the first one back in the Premier League and the meltdown summer when there was PLENTY to talk about) there were loads of comments because we were changing kit brand or sponsor or had a kit that most people hated.

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Pilchards

Pilchards

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I deal with loads of clothing from Hong Kong and for them to produce that shirt will cost £15 tops.

With it being a bulk order I reckon it will bring it down to a tenner.

Bloody rip off when you try to sell that to the public at £55 a head.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Yeah, I notice detail - but I think there's something around "we know it will be stripes, oh there's a sash one, I'll get that", that doesn't remain the case if the sash becomes the de facto - we'd lose a load of sales from people going "oh another sash" which we wouldn't with "oh another stripe".

 

What I mean isn't that we can't create distinctive sash designs, just that they might not have as much impact on the casual buyer after the first one. At some point in there what becomes the norm changes, and you get the "return to stripes" boost that currently a one-off sash would get.

 

I'd be more interested to see what happens if a club committed to not changing their shirt design for 5 years, whether they'd shift more shirts to people knowing they wouldn't have to buy another for 5 years, or whether they'd just massively lose out on revenue from the "buy anything" idiots like me. I suspect the latter, because no-one has tried it, even though NFL teams go years at a time without changing uniform brand or style. My NFL jersey is into its 4th year of relevance (unlike the player on the back, which I suspect is how the NFL teams keep selling jerseys of the same design).

 

It's a different model, probably tied up with image rights somehow - I wonder if any Prem side would refuse to sell shirts without a name and number but keep the design the same for multiple seasons to exploit the same model?

No club will go back to not releasing new every year now. The entire economy is based on fast turnaround products with in built obsolescence and football shirts is at the vanguard of that.

 

On sash it's all about the commitment - like when Leeds went all-white back in the 60s you have to do it and stick to it. I still think the sales of the new one each year would be much the same as stripe then stripe then stripe.

 

Anyway, we won't do it.

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Saint Billy

Saint Billy

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Some of the away kits from flybe were cracking. I enjoyed the grey one and the black with red across the shoulder.

 

Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk

 

Agreed, l actually liked the home kit designs as well, just a shame that the material quality was awful. Didn’t a poster called Gecko Saint play a part in the design?.

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Kenilworthy

Kenilworthy

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>'d be more interested to see what happens if a club committed to not changing their shirt design for 5 years, whether they'd shift more shirts to people knowing they wouldn't have to buy another for 5 years, or whether they'd just massively lose out on revenue from the "buy anything" idiots like me. I suspect the latter, because no-one has tried it, even though NFL teams go years at a time without changing uniform brand or style. My NFL jersey is into its 4th year of relevance (unlike the player on the back, which I suspect is how the NFL teams keep selling jerseys of the same design)

 

It is an interesting point. Maybe if the design didn't change every season more people might actually buy replica shirts - because I guess that as things stand the product life cycle is very compressed, with massive sales at the start of the season, a bit of a boost come Christmas and negligible come February. A shirt with a long life cycle might see people buying different versions - long and short sleeve for example and replacing them when they start to wear out or when their kids outgrow them. It is not inconceivable that not changing design every season could actually result in increased sales.

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

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Agreed, l actually liked the home kit designs as well, just a shame that the material quality was awful. Didn’t a poster called Gecko Saint play a part in the design?.
I'll give you that the actual quality was poor. I think it was that time that the neck sizes were always way to small as well, had to fight to get them on.

 

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niceandfriendly

niceandfriendly

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I deal with loads of clothing from Hong Kong and for them to produce that shirt will cost £15 tops.

With it being a bulk order I reckon it will bring it down to a tenner.

Bloody rip off when you try to sell that to the public at £55 a head.

 

If the club are paying £10 per shirt from Hong Kong then the people who run our club are more incompetent than we could have imagined. That would be an horrific deal.

 

You might be getting ripped off on your current dealings, if you think that's the price the club will be paying.

 

As for this design, wow. Couldn't get any worse. Why do the stripes stop where they do? Who thought that big red block would look good?

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Badger

Badger

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Glad we're back in stripes, but I hate the way they stop at the chest area and the plain back. It's a bit meh.

 

Bit of a contradiction there.

 

what is not to like? traditional red and white stripes!!!

 

COYR

 

Except it isn't traditional red and white stripes from the rear view.

 

Well it’s better than the bra design from a couple of years ago.......just.

 

Agree the 'bra' spoiled it, but it lease it was stripes on the reverse.

 

Verdict - shirt appears 'dog turd'.

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saint lard

saint lard

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Has saint lard ever been correct about anything?

 

Yes...I was ITK about Guly De Prado signing weeks before.

And made it known on here.

And Adkins was overrated.

And I made it known on here.

Hope that helps.

 

 

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eurosaint

eurosaint

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If the club are paying £10 per shirt from Hong Kong then the people who run our club are more incompetent than we could have imagined. That would be an horrific deal.

 

You might be getting ripped off on your current dealings, if you think that's the price the club will be paying.

 

As for this design, wow. Couldn't get any worse. Why do the stripes stop where they do? Who thought that big red block would look good?

 

The ex factory price will be nearer a fiver (will be made in China, not Hong Kong) but the price paid to Under Armour will be substantially higher due to design, marketing, branding and profit charges !

My guess would be that Saints pay around £15 which gives a 70% mark up (on return) which is fairly normal for a retailer !

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