Southampton paying the price for transfer failings and divided team - The Times

[gordonToo]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/southampton-paying-the-price-for-transfer-failings-and-divided-team-r3x0m2m9r

 

An insight into the siege mentality that has developed at Southampton during this surprisingly turbulent season came during a visit to the city’s general hospital this month. Mark Hughes’s whole first-team squad were in attendance, handing out signed cards and gifts on the children’s ward before talking to some lifelong Southampton fans in the elderly-care wards, but all requests to speak to the television crew filming the visit organised by the Saints Foundation were politely declined.

 

All the players stuck to the line, showing a resolution and esprit de corps that has often been absent during a campaign in which there has been a growing divide between the club’s British and foreign contingents, a lack of leadership and at least one physical confrontation between Hughes and a player. If such defiance and determination had been shown on the pitch, then Southampton would be far less likely to be in desperate trouble near the bottom of the Premier League, four points from safety with four matches remaining.

 

Southampton are facing an unexpected return to the Sky Bet Championship having sleepwalked into relegation trouble, a remarkable collapse from their eighth-place finish last season and apparently the result of complacency on and off the field. Despite having slipped into the bottom three for the first time only last month there is a growing fear that they have left it too late to engineer a recovery, with the players accepting in a team meeting this week that they are likely to need three wins from four to stay up.

 

That must seem especially tough for a Southampton side who have won just one of their past 21 Premier League matches, and none since Hughes replaced Manuel Pellegrino last month. It has reached the stage that, with away trips to Everton and Swansea City to come, followed by Manchester City’s visit on the final day, failure to beat Bournemouth today at St Mary’s will lead the club to begin planning for life in the Championship.

 

Southampton’s decline from an unlucky Capital One Cup final defeat by Manchester United and a top-eight finish last season has been a gradual one, to such an extent that for a long period it was barely noticed. While there are a number of causes — not least the sale of £234 million worth of players in the past four years and repeated managerial turnover — the roots of the crisis can arguably be traced to the club’s willingness to listen to the senior players last season who expressed misgivings about the then manager Claude Puel. Five players are understood to have made their feelings known to the board about Puel’s tactical rigidity as Southampton’s season petered out with one win in their final eight league matches. It led to the Frenchman’s dismissal last June. While the club were helpless to prevent the unwanted departures of Mauricio Pochettino in May 2014 and Ronald Koeman in the summer of 2016, losing Puel was a self-inflicted wound from which they have not recovered.

 

While not necessarily the wrong decision — Puel is now under pressure at his new club, Leicester — his sacking had far-reaching consequences that are still being felt.

With hindsight the appointment of Pellegrino was a mistake, shown by the fact that the Argentine won just five of his 30 league games in charge to leave the club deep in relegation trouble, but having attracted criticism for dumping Puel last summer, Southampton then stuck with his successor for too long.

 

The club considered sacking Pellegrino after a 2-1 home defeat by Crystal Palace on January 2, but after giving him more time, went undefeated in their next six matches, albeit winning only one in the league with their other two victories coming in the FA Cup.

 

Those cup wins and a series of home league draws helped to mask deeper problems which have been bubbling away in the dressing room all season, with Pellegrino losing the backing of many of his players as long ago as November.

 

The former Liverpool defender was initially a popular choice to replace Puel, as he is a far more engaging character, but issues between manager and squad soon emerged, particularly regarding his attitude to training.

 

Pellegrino is understood to have objected to the robust approach taken by many of the club’s British players in training — both in the extent of their physical commitment and willingness to criticise each other’s mistakes — and attempted to change the culture in a way that several players felt made them softer and easier to beat. The increasing absences of Steven Davis through injury have not helped. The Northern Irishman is one of few natural leaders at the club, particularly given that Virgil van Dijk barely played this season before joining Liverpool in January.

 

Pellegrino’s refusal to alter his tactics despite indifferent results at the start of the season also baffled many players, particularly his reluctance to consider fielding two strikers when the team were so short of goals. Southampton have the worst shot-conversion rate in the league. It is instructive that Charlie Austin has scored more league goals (seven) than Southampton’s other three strikers — Manolo Gabbiadini, Guido Carrillo and Shane Long — combined despite having played less than a quarter their number of minutes.

 

Pellegrino’s shortcomings were exacerbated by Southampton seemingly losing their touch in the transfer market, which, under the guidance of the vice-chairman Les Reed and director of football operations Ross Wilson, had long been one of their greatest strengths. Gabbiadini has faded badly after making a superb start following his £14 million move from Napoli in January last year, to the extent that the Italian has scored four league goals in 13 months and only one since October, while more recent signings have made even less of an impact.

The midfielder Mario Lemina has done little to justify his £18 million transfer from Juventus last summer while the club’s record signing Carrillo has not scored since his £19 million arrival from Monaco in January.

 

At the other end of the pitch Wesley Hoedt, the Dutch defender, has lost the confidence of many of his team-mates due to repeated errors, leading to tension between homegrown and foreign players for much of the season. Many of the former group believe that some of the club’s more recent signings do not work hard enough in training and have behaved badly when dropped, a problem that Hughes hinted at this month by referring to players “who are not willing to put their bodies on the line”.

 

Hughes is understood to have been restrained by members of his coaching staff when clashing with Sofiane Boufal in the dressing room after the league defeat by Chelsea a fortnight ago when the Morocco winger suggested that they settle their differences in the club’s gymnasium. Boufal has since been ordered to train on his own, although his behaviour has come as little surprise to his team-mates as he also clashed with Pellegrino earlier in the season.

 

Hughes has impressed many of Southampton’s players by putting on more thorough training sessions and introducing a more direct approach in matches. They are encouraged to play higher up the pitch and use more crosses, which, initially at least, increased their goal output, but he has been unable to improve their woeful defensive record. Even since his emergency appointment — until the end of the season — there has been an element of complacency in the dressing room, with the players said to be “shell-shocked” following the 3-0 defeat by West Ham United in his first Premier League match in charge last month.

 

Southampton’s players are no longer in any doubt as to the gravity of their situation, with many now wishing that Hughes had been appointed sooner. The board’s hope was that the Welshman would quickly stabilise what they continue to believe is a talented squad, but he inherited a divided group for a difficult run of eight fixtures featuring Arsenal, Chelsea, City and several relegation rivals.

 

Instead of activating plans to give Hughes a long-term contract once Premier League status was secured, Southampton are facing the prospect of a very different summer, which would be complicated by taking a wage bill of £112 million – the eighth-highest in the top flight — into the Championship. Unlike West Bromwich Albion, they have not handicapped themselves further by inserting small release clauses into several players’ contracts, so Southampton will at least be able to negotiate any sales from a position of relative strength, while those players who do remain will face wage cuts of between 25 and 50 per cent.

 

There are also likely to be changes higher up. The new majority shareholder, Gao Jisheng, who has taken a hands-off approach, did not pay £210 million for an 80 per cent stake last summer to potentially experience Championship away-days at Burton Albion and Shrewsbury Town.

[simo]

Can't be bothered to read all that but if the summary is selling good players and replacing then with cheaper players they hope to make another profit on its correct !

[shurlock]

Lots of interesting and new tidbits here - good read.

[davefoggy]

its a shambles

[beatlesaint]

Excellent and very revealing. Love to know the source(s) for this !

[Suhari]

Interesting and damning.

[Suhari]

Excellent and very revealing. Love to know the source(s) for this !

 

Me too!

[Wade Garrett]

Interesting read.

 

Hopefully Hughes will stay and the board will go.

[nta786]

interesting article- will dissect a few things though! I'll begin by thanking you OP for uploading this due that paywall!

 

there has been a growing divide between the club’s British and foreign contingents

 

interesting that- guess it is a sign of the PL mercenaries coming in.

 

Five players are understood to have made their feelings known to the board about Puel’s tactical rigidity

 

well they certainly didn't help their causes when we played Leicester at home- bloke beat us 4-1.

 

with Pellegrino losing the backing of many of his players as long ago as November

 

crazy to think we beat Everton 4-1 then.

 

The increasing absences of Steven Davis through injury have not helped

 

well if he really is a motivator could he not have visited our training sessions?

 

particularly his reluctance to consider fielding two strikers when the team were so short of goals

 

well the WHU game summed why it doesn't happen.

 

they have not handicapped themselves further by inserting small release clauses into several players’ contracts, so Southampton will at least be able to negotiate any sales from a position of relative strength, while those players who do remain will face wage cuts of between 25 and 50 per cent

 

I am so so glad to hear that... Les Reed well done.

[Maggie May]

Hope the wage cuts part is true.

[Pugwash]

Very good read. Obviously well-informed. More than one source i reckon.

[Saint Albert]

That makes for interesting, but very grim reading.

[CityRanger]

From the club? Possibly as it credits Reed and Wilson for all previous transfer success. Glad the players are having wage cuts, hopefully the mercenaries will be straight out the door for more money elsewhere and we can invest the parachute money in the Championships best players.

[shurlock]

I thought uncle les screened players for psychological fit, that it was harder to get into southampton fc than MI6?

[Toon Saint]

Bizarre that Pellegrino objected to how robust the British players were in training. Just shows how completely out of his depth he was managing in the Premier League. Not like he was reinventing the wheel in anyway tactically, so why actively discourage qualities that might win you games? God knows what Reed and Wilson were seeing on the training ground to make them think things would be any different.

 

Anyway, that was a really good read. Sounds like the British contingent are behind Hughes. Also sounds like he is putting a few noses out of his joint. What a mess!

 

 

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[Nordic Saint]

Excellent and very revealing. Love to know the source(s) for this !

 

"which, under the guidance of the vice-chairman Les Reed and director of football operations Ross Wilson, had long been one of their greatest strengths."

 

I think that's pretty obvious. The same source as most of the other stories which emanate from the club.

[shurlock]

"which, under the guidance of the vice-chairman Les Reed and director of football operations Ross Wilson, had long been one of their greatest strengths."

 

I think that's pretty obvious. The same source as most of the other stories which emanate from the club.

 

Are you still banging on about Paul Mitchell pal?

[Nordic Saint]

If you want gossip and negative rumours about Saints players and managers, Uncle Les is you man. He'd throw his own grandmother under a bus to save himself.

[Saints foreva]

Shambles of a football club.

[austsaint]

If you want gossip and negative rumours about Saints players and managers, Uncle Les is you man. He'd throw his own grandmother under a bus to save himself.

 

Yet this article confirms his ineptitude, doesn't it?

[Saint Benali]

It's an interesting article but the helpless to stop Koeman leaving thing isn't correct. Les told him if he didn't sign a new deal he would have to leave. Koeman wanted to do the final year of his contract and assess things after.

[CB Fry]

Yet this article confirms his ineptitude, doesn't it?

Yes it does. Only the truly unhinged Nordic nutcase can read an article like that and decide that it's a Les Reed puff piece based on a throwaway line about how we used to be good at transfers (spoiler alert: we did used to be good at transfers).

 

No one is reading that article and thinking, ain't that Les Reed brilliant.

Edited 27 April, 2018 by CB Fry

[Heisenberg]

And nobody saw it coming.....

[CB Fry]

It's an interesting article but the helpless to stop Koeman leaving thing isn't correct. Les told him if he didn't sign a new deal he would have to leave. Koeman wanted to do the final year of his contract and assess things after.

We were never ever going to let Koeman do that, quite rightly. Not least because we would have had an entire season of fans moaning about "why didn't clueless Reed tie down Koeman earlier we knew his contract was running down etc etc". Or, if the season went badly they'd blame Reed for not extending Koemans deal so the club was allowed to drift and lacked leadership etc etc. Letting Koeman go into the final year entirely on his terms would have been a disaster.

 

And anyway he would have gone to Everton anyway for the money. And, he did.

[Badger]

We were never ever going to let Koeman do that, quite rightly. Not least because we would have had an entire season of fans moaning about "why didn't clueless Reed tie down Koeman earlier we knew his contract was running down etc etc". Or, if the season went badly they'd blame Reed for not extending Koemans deal so the club was allowed to drift and lacked leadership etc etc. Letting Koeman go into the final year entirely on his terms would have been a disaster.

 

And anyway he would have gone to Everton anyway for the money. And, he did.

 

Or he'd have stayed with us for the same money, but we wouldn't match it. Although that might have proved a better step than the severance payments made to the next two.

[Badger]

Disappointing this sort of article only now appears, almost as an epitaph to the season rather than earlier in the season when we all knew it was going down the pan, and they kept the hapless MP in charge.

[Saint Benali]

We were never ever going to let Koeman do that, quite rightly. Not least because we would have had an entire season of fans moaning about "why didn't clueless Reed tie down Koeman earlier we knew his contract was running down etc etc". Or, if the season went badly they'd blame Reed for not extending Koemans deal so the club was allowed to drift and lacked leadership etc etc. Letting Koeman go into the final year entirely on his terms would have been a disaster.

 

And anyway he would have gone to Everton anyway for the money. And, he did.

 

Well that decision didn't work out too well did it? His replacement was gone within a year, that guys replacement was gone within a year and that guys replacement is likely to be gone in under a year.

The sad thing is we could have paid more to those three than what Koeman was after.

But from what I remember it wasn't actually money stopping him was it? Didn't he want some confirmation that the squad wouldn't be broken up and would infact be strengthened like Reed said in his interviews?

Would Koeman have left to go to Everton if he would have kept the squad together and added to it? Who knows. That final year he could have ****ed up bigtime. We will never know. What we do know is Reed's decision at that point could be considered the true starting point for our decline.

[Mr Saints]

****ing shambles and we will deservedly be relegated.

[Dalek2003]

And nobody saw it coming.....

 

and if you did see it coming you were lambasted.

[Cabrone]

Hope they can keep Hughes, sounds like we've finally got a manager that is doing things correctly.

Wouldn't have fancied Boufal's chances against Sparky even if he was giving him a good 25 year age gap.

[CB Fry]

Well that decision didn't work out too well did it? His replacement was gone within a year, that guys replacement was gone within a year and that guys replacement is likely to be gone in under a year.

The sad thing is we could have paid more to those three than what Koeman was after.

But from what I remember it wasn't actually money stopping him was it? Didn't he want some confirmation that the squad wouldn't be broken up and would infact be strengthened like Reed said in his interviews?

Would Koeman have left to go to Everton if he would have kept the squad together and added to it? Who knows. That final year he could have ****ed up bigtime. We will never know. What we do know is Reed's decision at that point could be considered the true starting point for our decline.

 

The idea that Koeman leaving us to go to Everton is entirely "Les Reed's decision" is just horsesh it. Koeman was offered a pay rise to stay, he refused and off he went.

 

Not letting Koeman go into the final year of his contract without extension was the correct decision regardless of Puel or Pellegrino. People like you would be moaning like f uck if we'd done that and grizzling about Les's decision to not try and tie him down.

 

But you're right, we'll never know but my advice is in those situations don't assume everything thing would have been better, which us what you seem to be doing. Maybe reference Koeman's second season with Everton which was a bloody car crash. Something people like you were not predicting this time last year. Most were saying how Everton were going to invest and build and grow and grow and build and invest and be be challenging for the top six.

[Fan The Flames]

Well that decision didn't work out too well did it? His replacement was gone within a year, that guys replacement was gone within a year and that guys replacement is likely to be gone in under a year.

The sad thing is we could have paid more to those three than what Koeman was after.

But from what I remember it wasn't actually money stopping him was it? Didn't he want some confirmation that the squad wouldn't be broken up and would infact be strengthened like Reed said in his interviews?

Would Koeman have left to go to Everton if he would have kept the squad together and added to it? Who knows. That final year he could have ****ed up bigtime. We will never know. What we do know is Reed's decision at that point could be considered the true starting point for our decline.

 

Koeman left us for Everton for £6m a year and Evertons transfer kitty. There was no way we were going to compete with that.

 

No club allows their manager to see their contract out Man U and Ferguson admitted it was a mistake that time he announce his retirement and Arsenal haven't aĺlowed their longest serving most successful manager to have a valedictory season.

 

If there was a point when our decline started it was the choice of Puel. Blaming the Koeman decision is as wrong as blaming the Pelligrino reign on the sacking of Puel.

[Miltonaggro]

Good article, apart from the sentence about Reed and Wilson which is fantasy worthy of J R R Tolkien. Wish Hughes had battered Bawfal, and his passion is endearing in terms of the Championship. Nelly needs to prep the shark tank for fat Les and emaciated Ross.

[spyinthesky]

Hope the wage cuts part is true.

 

I know from a decent source that at least one home grown first team player has a 50% relegation clause in his contract.

 

The worry is that there may be a 25% clause in other contracts - possibly transfer in players - who would be on quite high wages

[doddisalegend]

the roots of the crisis can arguably be traced to the club’s willingness to listen to the senior players last season who expressed misgivings about the then manager Claude Puel. Five players are understood to have made their feelings known to the board about Puel’s tactical rigidity as Southampton’s season petered out with one win in their final eight league matches. It led to the Frenchman’s dismissal last June. While the club were helpless to prevent the unwanted departures of Mauricio Pochettino in May 2014 and Ronald Koeman in the summer of 2016, losing Puel was a self-inflicted wound from which they have not recovered.

 

While not necessarily the wrong decision — Puel is now under pressure at his new club, Leicester — his sacking had far-reaching consequences that are still being felt.

With hindsight the appointment of Pellegrino was a mistake, shown by the fact that the Argentine won just five of his 30 league games in charge to leave the club deep in relegation trouble, but having attracted criticism for dumping Puel last summer, Southampton then stuck with his successor for too long.

 

I've been saying this for a while but the moment the club gave into Bertrand and co over Puel they gave themselves a massive problem. Player power at the club needs to be stamped out at least it looks like Hughes is willing to do that starting with Boufal.

[doddisalegend]

So next season then, in the championship, we keep Hughes (if he is willing), clear out the foreign contingent of recent signings, and back the manager with some players with the right mentality and see where it takes us.

[beatlesaint]

So next season then, in the championship, we keep Hughes (if he is willing), clear out the foreign contingent of recent signings, and back the manager with some players with the right mentality and see where it takes us.

 

in a nutshell. Or bring in a young, upcoming manager if Hughes goes.

[harriesss]

Yes we should keep a manager that has failed to win every league game under his leadership and has only narrowly beat a league one side. We’d be better off points wise currently if we’d kept Pellegrino.

 

 

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[Shroppie]

Thanks for this. A lot of what many have been thinking fir some time but pretty clear chapter and verse.

 

Reads like making a clean breast of things before a fresh start, hopefully still in the PL but more likely the Championship. And Les maybe trying to blame everyone else.

 

It's pretty clear we've messed up on signings, going from identifying good potential that would give us a couple of seasons and a profit to players wanting a quick bit if individual glory and a big money move. But the biggest mistake was obviously Pellegrino. Why did no one act earlier?

 

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[doddisalegend]

Yes we should keep a manager that has failed to win every league game under his leadership and has only narrowly beat a league one side. We’d be better off points wise currently if we’d kept Pellegrino.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Well considering the issues given in article in the OP its hardly a surprise is it? I'm willing to give him a chance with a squad that's had the bad apples cleared out. At least with Hughes I can see what he is trying to achieve with the players at his disposal can't say the same with MoPe who didn't seem any sort of plan at all.

[Shroppie]

Well considering the issues given in article in the OP its hardly a surprise is it? I'm willing to give him a chance with a squad that's had the bad apples cleared out. At least with Hughes I can see what he is trying to achieve with the players at his disposal can't say the same with MoPe who didn't seem any sort of plan at all.

Agreed. At least there is a sense of focus now.

 

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[doddisalegend]

Thanks for this. A lot of what many have been thinking fir some time but pretty clear chapter and verse.

 

Reads like making a clean breast of things before a fresh start, hopefully still in the PL but more likely the Championship. And Les maybe trying to blame everyone else.

 

It's pretty clear we've messed up on signings, going from identifying good potential that would give us a couple of seasons and a profit to players wanting a quick bit if individual glory and a big money move. But the biggest mistake was obviously Pellegrino. Why did no one act earlier?

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

I think the article makes that pretty clear having given into the players over Puel the club didn't want to be seen to do so again

 

The roots of the crisis can arguably be traced to the club’s willingness to listen to the senior players last season who expressed misgivings about the then manager Claude Puel. Five players are understood to have made their feelings known to the board about Puel’s tactical rigidity as Southampton’s season petered out with one win in their final eight league matches. It led to the Frenchman’s dismissal last June. While the club were helpless to prevent the unwanted departures of Mauricio Pochettino in May 2014 and Ronald Koeman in the summer of 2016, losing Puel was a self-inflicted wound from which they have not recovered.

 

While not necessarily the wrong decision — Puel is now under pressure at his new club, Leicester — his sacking had far-reaching consequences that are still being felt.

With hindsight the appointment of Pellegrino was a mistake, shown by the fact that the Argentine won just five of his 30 league games in charge to leave the club deep in relegation trouble, but having attracted criticism for dumping Puel last summer, Southampton then stuck with his successor for too long.

[Windy Miller]

A really good article. Not sure Hughes will stick around if we get relegated. He will take some time out and wait for Cardiff to come calling (after Warnock makes another cr@p start in the PL) in November. I just wish for more exciting time at St Mary's. Last time out against Chelsea was great for 70 mins!

[trousers]

and if you did see it coming you were lambasted.

Congratulations on having the same strike rate as the Daily Express...

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Yes we should keep a manager that has failed to win every league game under his leadership and has only narrowly beat a league one side. We’d be better off points wise currently if we’d kept Pellegrino.

 

 

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A league 1 side that had previously beaten West Ham, Boscombe, oh and Man City. If you think we’d be better off under Pellegrino you’re ****ing clueless.

 

 

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[Baird of the land]

One or two interesting nuggets around a lot of drivel. The way it waxs lyrical about a manager who so far has got us one point suggests it might be coming from his agent.

[adrian lord]

Pity Hughes was restrained from clumping the **** Boufal.

[SFC Forever]

Originally Posted by doddisalegend

So next season then, in the championship, we keep Hughes (if he is willing), clear out the foreign contingent of recent signings, and back the manager with some players with the right mentality and see where it takes us.

 

 

in a nutshell. Or bring in a young, upcoming manager if Hughes goes.

 

 

 

This works for me.

[shurlock]

Pity Hughes was restrained from clumping the **** Boufal.

 

I’ll see you in the gymnasium pal.

[Dalek2003]

Congratulations on having the same strike rate as the Daily Express...

 

 

Say what you like. I called it at the time and give very reasoned explanations as to why were going to be on a downward trend. I must admit that the acceleration of recent months has even surprised me.