Hojbjerg: Official - Signs for Spurs

[View From The Top]

That the majority of Saints fans are "meh" about him going sums it up to me.

[angelman]

39 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

That the majority of Saints fans are "meh" about him going sums it up to me.

Sums up the fans or the player?

[Mystic Force]

2 hours ago, Alanh said:

He's a moneyball signing.  His stats for defensive work like ball recovery and tackles in opposition half are up there with the best in the league.  He's got great credentials in terms of what he does when his side don't have the ball, but we know that he isn't the best in terms of ceativity or using the ball when he has it.  If a manager believes that his side needs to improve on the defensive side then PEH is a good option.  I think that's why he massively appeals to Everton, who need to be beter in that area.  I guess for Spurs he is a replacement for the likes of Dier (now that he is a centre back) and Wanyama, although I still think Sissoko does the job better fo them that PEH would.

I think we have proved over the last few years that the magic sauce of picking winners and loser was more down to a talented individual that number crunching. These stats picks only seem to really work in sports that involve more set piece plays and not continuing play sports. With PEH you might get the ball of the opposition a lot of times because he keeps giving it back.

[igsey]

4 hours ago, angelman said:

I don't want to come across as being one of those who says that a player is sh*t when he leaves for another team, because I don't think PEH is. But I don't quite get the huge enthusiasm that Spurs supporters have in signing him. Am I wrong? Is PEH a brilliant player? We all know how he plays, but I am wondering whether I am missing something and under estimating his impact?

I was listening to talkSport yesterday, where a couple of the people there said that he was our best player last season (after Ings) with Alex Crook (I think it was him) saying that he thought that he'd actually been pretty poor. 

Thing is, if you don't actually watch our games and only have stats to go on or maybe the occasional MotD highlights, he is a very good player and a very good fit for Spurs.

One of the highest tackling and interception rates in the league... he frequently gives it away afterwards, but that doesn't show on the stats.

One of the highest pass completion rates from midfield... mostly because he only ever passes it to our CBs or goalkeeper, but that doesn't show on the stats.

He can play CM, DM, LB or RB... he's terrible at both fullback positions, but that doesn't show on the stats.

The things that we see, watching him every week, is that he too ofter slows down or breaks up attacks, his positioning is poor, he too often takes the easy, safe pass when there's a better, forward ball to be played... Spurs fans won't see that on Opta or Whoscored.

Plus, he's 24, rarely injured and comes across well in interviews.

On paper he's brilliant and well worth £25m. If they get him, they will quickly be disappointed and turn on him before Mourinho publicly chastises him and boots him to the reserve team.

[DT]

49 minutes ago, igsey said:

Thing is, if you don't actually watch our games and only have stats to go on or maybe the occasional MotD highlights, he is a very good player and a very good fit for Spurs.

One of the highest tackling and interception rates in the league... he frequently gives it away afterwards, but that doesn't show on the stats.

One of the highest pass completion rates from midfield... mostly because he only ever passes it to our CBs or goalkeeper, but that doesn't show on the stats.

He can play CM, DM, LB or RB... he's terrible at both fullback positions, but that doesn't show on the stats.

The things that we see, watching him every week, is that he too ofter slows down or breaks up attacks, his positioning is poor, he too often takes the easy, safe pass when there's a better, forward ball to be played... Spurs fans won't see that on Opta or Whoscored.

Plus, he's 24, rarely injured and comes across well in interviews.

On paper he's brilliant and well worth £25m. If they get him, they will quickly be disappointed and turn on him before Mourinho publicly chastises him and boots him to the reserve team.

Pretty much spot on assessment. One of the most boring footballers out there, and doesn't even fulfil the 'keeping the ball well' thing. Enduring memory from a game where in an attack down the left he turned and booted it fully 40 yards back to our keeper. Sums him up. Also now leaving a Lallana-esque bad feeling in the mouth. He'll be a big flop at Spurs 

[Pilchards]

10 hours ago, igsey said:

Thing is, if you don't actually watch our games and only have stats to go on or maybe the occasional MotD highlights, he is a very good player and a very good fit for Spurs.

One of the highest tackling and interception rates in the league... he frequently gives it away afterwards, but that doesn't show on the stats.

One of the highest pass completion rates from midfield... mostly because he only ever passes it to our CBs or goalkeeper, but that doesn't show on the stats.

He can play CM, DM, LB or RB... he's terrible at both fullback positions, but that doesn't show on the stats.

The things that we see, watching him every week, is that he too ofter slows down or breaks up attacks, his positioning is poor, he too often takes the easy, safe pass when there's a better, forward ball to be played... Spurs fans won't see that on Opta or Whoscored.

Plus, he's 24, rarely injured and comes across well in interviews.

On paper he's brilliant and well worth £25m. If they get him, they will quickly be disappointed and turn on him before Mourinho publicly chastises him and boots him to the reserve team.

That’s not our problem, just give us the money Spurs.
I certainly won’t be disappointed to lose a captain.

[Dusic]

I realise the revisionism always happens on here when a player is leaving but some of the comments on here show why a lot of people don't have a clue.

Before all this played out he was a nailed on starter for us, easily ahead of Romeu who many on here rate highly.

Yes he isn't David Silva, but he has a particular set of skills and football is a team game where you need a balance of attributes.

Hasenhuttl rates him, Mourinho rates him, Ancelotti rates him. Ajax rate him. Pep rated him, even if he didn't kick on as initially expected.
 

 

[SaintBobby]

His apparent determination to only go to Spurs might make our negotiating position trickier, but it surely makes his salary negotiation harder too?

Why would they offer him a bumper salary if he isn’t willing to sign for Everton no matter what? Why not offer him a more modest salary and add the savings to the transfer offer to Saints to get the deal over the line?

[Dusic]

5 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

His apparent determination to only go to Spurs might make our negotiating position trickier, but it surely makes his salary negotiation harder too?

Why would they offer him a bumper salary if he isn’t willing to sign for Everton no matter what? Why not offer him a more modest salary and add the savings to the transfer offer to Saints to get the deal over the line?

He will already know his salary offer as part of making the decision to go there.

He isn't doing anything wrong, neither are Spurs, nor Saints. Its just a negotiation.

When it happens the Saints reporters will quote a high fee, the Spurs media a lower one and the truth will be in the middle.

[wild-saint]

7 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

His apparent determination to only go to Spurs might make our negotiating position trickier, but it surely makes his salary negotiation harder too?

Why would they offer him a bumper salary if he isn’t willing to sign for Everton no matter what? Why not offer him a more modest salary and add the savings to the transfer offer to Saints to get the deal over the line?

Possibly because the wages discussions with his agent has long been completed hence is desire only to join spurs.

[SaintBobby]

Just now, Dusic said:

He will already know his salary offer as part of making the decision to go there.

He isn't doing anything wrong, neither are Spurs, nor Saints. Its just a negotiation.

When it happens the Saints reporters will quote a high fee, the Spurs media a lower one and the truth will be in the middle.

I’m sceptical about that tbh. The idea that the negotiation involves Hojbjerg and Spurs agreeing a package that is perfect for the former and Saints then just need to accept almost any offer Levy makes is not how any negotiation works.

[Professor]

Could someone just remind me how many goals this star player of ours scored in the season just ended?

[CB Fry]

27 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

I’m sceptical about that tbh. The idea that the negotiation involves Hojbjerg and Spurs agreeing a package that is perfect for the former and Saints then just need to accept almost any offer Levy makes is not how any negotiation works.

There are certainly some people on this forum who have absolutely no idea how negotiation works.

[SaintBobby]

Just now, CB Fry said:

There are certainly some people on this forum who have absolutely no idea how negotiation works.

Well, good of you to put your hand in the air. Given I negotiate for a pretty good living (albeit not sales of football players), I’ll keep my hands down thanks.

[SaintBobby]

5 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

There are certainly some people on this forum who have absolutely no idea how negotiation works.

I confess though that it’s great having you as a regular poster. Any lively forum always needs a chap like you. The one who brilliantly proves that their ignorance is no barrier at all to expressing an opinion. You do bring a smile to our faces, sweetie.

[Sinned]

36 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

I’m sceptical about that tbh. The idea that the negotiation involves Hojbjerg and Spurs agreeing a package that is perfect for the former and Saints then just need to accept almost any offer Levy makes is not how any negotiation works.

Sorry, but that’s exactly what happened in the original ‘negotiation’ for VVD to go to Liverpool.    They had agreed a full package with him without ever talking to Saints.  Then someone very senior at Liverpool sent the details by email to other senior people there, and accidentally included a Saints Board Member, which was why the ‘negotiation’ became public news.

[SaintBobby]

Just now, Sinned said:

Sorry, but that’s exactly what happened in the original ‘negotiation’ for VVD to go to Liverpool.    They had agreed a full package with him without ever talking to Saints.  Then someone very senior at Liverpool sent the details by email to other senior people there, and accidentally included a Saints Board Member, which was why the ‘negotiation’ became public news.

We got £75m for him. A very fair price at the time.

[Sinned]

7 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

We got £75m for him. A very fair price at the time.

But in that original negotiation the offer was going to be £45M to £50M.   Saints reported the Liverpool to the FA and all hell broke loose.    Liverpool withdrew from the negotiation and came back in the next window with the £75M, which they had been told we would accept.

But, the original point was that Liverpool had completed a deal with VVD’s agent before they ever spoke to Saints.

And yes, I agree that £75M was a very good price.

[Dusic]

2 hours ago, Professor said:

Could someone just remind me how many goals this star player of ours scored in the season just ended?

Could you remind me why his number of goals is at all relevant?

I would guess Spurs would sign, you know, an attacker, if they wanted goals.

[SaintBobby]

1 hour ago, Sinned said:

But in that original negotiation the offer was going to be £45M to £50M.   Saints reported the Liverpool to the FA and all hell broke loose.    Liverpool withdrew from the negotiation and came back in the next window with the £75M, which they had been told we would accept.

But, the original point was that Liverpool had completed a deal with VVD’s agent before they ever spoke to Saints.

And yes, I agree that £75M was a very good price.

Not disagreeing. We held firm before eventually bowing to the inevitable and getting a good price. Dropped VVD from a number of matches too. No reason to think we should act much differently on PEH. 

[S-Clarke]

3 hours ago, Dusic said:

I realise the revisionism always happens on here when a player is leaving but some of the comments on here show why a lot of people don't have a clue.

Before all this played out he was a nailed on starter for us, easily ahead of Romeu who many on here rate highly.

Yes he isn't David Silva, but he has a particular set of skills and football is a team game where you need a balance of attributes.

Hasenhuttl rates him, Mourinho rates him, Ancelotti rates him. Ajax rate him. Pep rated him, even if he didn't kick on as initially expected.
 

 

I don't agree with that at all. I think most of us have been fairly fair over our assessments of him, he is honestly nothing special and I have always maintained that - not just because he's now leaving.

Bog standard is how I'd describe him, offers nothing more than Tottenham's midfielders currently do. As igsey put above so well, in isolation his stats look impressive.

But I know what I've seen for the last 4 years. I've seen the most dull, boring, safe midfield player. Someone who gives up possession just as much as he wins it, someone who waves his arms about and shows passion, but never really did the talking on the pitch.

I'll remember someone who shows no composure in the final moments of games. I'll remember someone who makes you nervous rather than excited by his presence. I'll remember him as someone who was a pivotal part to our horrific, unacceptable home form for the last 3/4 seasons.

Luckily other managers see a gap in their side for him and are willing to buy him, as this will enable us to buy someone far more dynamic to improve our style at home.

[Sinned]

10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't agree with that at all. I think most of us have been fairly fair over our assessments of him, he is honestly nothing special and I have always maintained that - not just because he's now leaving.

Bog standard is how I'd describe him, offers nothing more than Tottenham's midfielders currently do. As igsey put above so well, in isolation his stats look impressive.

But I know what I've seen for the last 4 years. I've seen the most dull, boring, safe midfield player. Someone who gives up possession just as much as he wins it, someone who waves his arms about and shows passion, but never really did the talking on the pitch.

I'll remember someone who shows no composure in the final moments of games. I'll remember someone who makes you nervous rather than excited by his presence. I'll remember him as someone who was a pivotal part to our horrific, unacceptable home form for the last 3/4 seasons.

Luckily other managers see a gap in their side for him and are willing to buy him, as this will enable us to buy someone far more dynamic to improve our style at home.

I agree with most of what you say.  But I think Mourinho has a slightly different style and plan for him.    His job will be to break up play and win possession, something he is very good at.   But instead of trying to get it forward with a fancy pass, he will be told to look for Lo Celso / Bergwyn who will be expected to be 5 yards away waiting for the simple pass. Their job will be to look for the fancy passes.

[DT]

1 minute ago, Sinned said:

I agree with most of what you say.  But I think Mourinho has a slightly different style and plan for him.    His job will be to break up play and win possession, something he is very good at.   But instead of trying to get it forward with a fancy pass, he will be told to look for Lo Celso / Bergwyn who will be expected to be 5 yards away waiting for the simple pass. Their job will be to look for the fancy passes.

This. Kind of the Wanyama role. Or Kante. He likes it. Not sure Hoj is in  those brackets though.

[Saint Garrett]

I am shocked how he's gone from being rated as one of our best players, to being completely expendable and crap within a few months because Romeu has had a few good games....

[Appy]

7 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

I am shocked how he's gone from being rated as one of our best players, to being completely expendable and crap within a few months because Romeu has had a few good games....

Agreed, Romeu is a liability at times, he shouldn’t be a regular starter. We have to get the replacement right. 

[SNSUN]

17 hours ago, DT said:

Pretty much spot on assessment. One of the most boring footballers out there, and doesn't even fulfil the 'keeping the ball well' thing. Enduring memory from a game where in an attack down the left he turned and booted it fully 40 yards back to our keeper. Sums him up. Also now leaving a Lallana-esque bad feeling in the mouth. He'll be a big flop at Spurs 

One of the Spurs lot on the FC forum reckons Hojbjerg can develop there, comparing him to Wanyama, who apparently was "bang average" before he joined Spurs. That's Wanyama, one of our best ever defensive midfielders. Mind you, these are the same fans that think KWP is not Premier League quality, so there you go.

🙄

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Sinned said:

Sorry, but that’s exactly what happened in the original ‘negotiation’ for VVD to go to Liverpool.    They had agreed a full package with him without ever talking to Saints.  Then someone very senior at Liverpool sent the details by email to other senior people there, and accidentally included a Saints Board Member, which was why the ‘negotiation’ became public news.

This seems to be the practice nowadays. What happened to being "allowed" to speak to the player ?

I assume that went out of the window with agents, who buying clubs are allowed to freely engage with irrespective of the selling club's stance. Surprised in some ways FIFA haven't tried to extend the restriction to agents, but in truth they've probably no appetite to do so as it would alienate those higher up the chain.

[Badger]

11 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

I am shocked how he's gone from being rated as one of our best players, to being completely expendable and crap within a few months because Romeu has had a few good games....

 

3 minutes ago, Appy said:

Agreed, Romeu is a liability at times, he shouldn’t be a regular starter. We have to get the replacement right. 

Agreed. It's an 'end of season syndrome' , where a few good games masks a few months( couple of seasons even) indifferent displays. 

[redkeith]

If Saints get an acceptable club, be it the dugouts or a European team, they should offer Spurs the chance to match it. If they won't up there offer, then they need to explain to PEH that the only way he will get his move to Spurs is to put in a transfer request, thereby waiving all bonuses in the rest of his contract and his cut of the fee. 

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Well, good of you to put your hand in the air. Given I negotiate for a pretty good living (albeit not sales of football players), I’ll keep my hands down thanks.

This is not borne out by your infantile assessment of every element of this negotiation. We're not going to keep him for a season and force him to play with the kids, we're not going to "accept almost any offer Levy makes". It's just a fairyland cartoon approximation of negotiation you have seen on The Apprentice.

Every comment you have made on this topic is absolutely pitiful.

It makes me nostalgic for you analysis about how many wins a club needs to stay up in a Premier League season. At least that was funny.

Edited 4 August, 2020 by CB Fry

[angelman]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

I am shocked how he's gone from being rated as one of our best players, to being completely expendable and crap within a few months because Romeu has had a few good games....

I'm not going to read the whole thread, but what I've seen, most seem to think like me. That he has been good for us, rather than spectacular, and cannot understand why a Big 6 club (and others) are so enthused over him. He's a frustrating player at times, and definitely ahead of Romeu. He doesn't on the face of it, seem to be a player whose moving away will be hugely detrimental to us, but only time will tell. I actually think he's a very clever player just a shame he isn't more agile and his shooting ability is somewhat in the Shane Long mould. 

[the boy from saints]

Since Hoj was dropped from the team, post lockdown we have arguably played some of the most expansive and exciting football since Koeman. Compare that to the last 3-4 seasons when he was a permanent fixture, and the football has often been uninspiring, you can see why many supporters are not that bothered if he goes.Myself included.

[the boy from saints]

Since Hoj was dropped from the team, post lockdown we have arguably played some of the most expansive and exciting football since Koeman. Compare that to the last 3-4 seasons when he was a permanent fixture, and the football has often been uninspiring, you can see why many supporters are not that bothered if he goes.Myself included.

[SaveloyMush]

7 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Well, good of you to put your hand in the air. Given I negotiate for a pretty good living (albeit not sales of football players), I’ll keep my hands down thanks.

Used car salesman?

[iansums]

4 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I am shocked how he's gone from being rated as one of our best players, to being completely expendable and crap within a few months because Romeu has had a few good games....

I don't see anyone say he's crap, the general consensus is that we're not too bothered about him leaving as he is not that highly rated. This is unlike players such as Mane, Morgan, Wanyama etc where we very disappointed to see them go.

[Saint Keef]

There is no denying, in the past few weeks, we played some of the best football we have seen in (3 or is it 4 +) years. And it has coincided in PEH not being in the team.  I accept  there may be other factors as well, however, coincidentally or not,  the one game since lock down where it didn't work, where we seemed to lack ambition and a forward drive, and a momentum, was against Arsenal in which PEH played a significant part. And it could be argued that PEH was partly culpable for one of Arsenal's two goals with his loose passing back to Jack Stephens. (Wasn't PEH involved in the first goal somehow as well - although I know it was ultimately Alex McCarthy's error). 

I don't dislike PEH, I'm not out to batter him, he always put a lot of effort in, chasing down, breaking up attacks but I found his distribution was very poor (unless passing back) and he was very hot-headed, clumsy and rash in some of his tackling on many occasions. I often came away from games feeling that he had flattered to deceive. Tried very hard for the team, but just not quite up to it......maybe a lack of composure on the ball.

I know Romeu isn't to everyone's taste, but lately I've been really impressed with his composure on the ball and distribution, a whole new side to his game..

Obviously Jose knows a bit more about football than I,  and obviously sees something in PEH that he likes. I don't wish PEH any ill, but I'd really be interested to see if he can sustain a place in a fully firing Tottenham first team. Haha.....Everton on the other hand. Now that's a whole different ball game. 

Could Harrison Reid do the job? He certainly looks like he's come on - good luck to him tonight by the way, but I think I'd like to see Brentford come up. 

[S-Clarke]

19 minutes ago, Saint Keef said:

There is no denying, in the past few weeks, we played some of the best football we have seen in (3 or is it 4 +) years. And it has coincided in PEH not being in the team.  I accept  there may be other factors as well, however, coincidentally or not,  the one game since lock down where it didn't work, where we seemed to lack ambition and a forward drive, and a momentum, was against Arsenal in which PEH played a significant part. 

Don't forget Brighton at home either, the first half was utter dross and an example of what has been served up at home all too often.

[the wedge]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/08/04/pierre-emile-hojbjergon-brink-joining-tottenham-for15million/

[SuperSAINT]

7 minutes ago, the wedge said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/08/04/pierre-emile-hojbjergon-brink-joining-tottenham-for15million/

I’ll take it. It’s not ideal, but let’s get it done.

[Suhari]

6 minutes ago, the wedge said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/08/04/pierre-emile-hojbjergon-brink-joining-tottenham-for15million/

I suspect we'll see some differences in the fees of each player. £15M seems light for PEH, given we wanted £35M originally, and there was talk of £20M offered from other clubs. But...last year of the contract, and Spurs his chosen destination.

£12M for KWP seems a bargain.

There was suggestion that our sale of PEH would fund his replacement, so hopefully that's not in danger.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SuperSAINT said:

I’ll take it. It’s not ideal, but let’s get it done.

Wonder if they are planning to announce Salisu and KWP same time as the sale of Hojbjerg to keep spirits up. I would be fine with it to be honest.

[Badger]

15 minutes ago, the wedge said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/08/04/pierre-emile-hojbjergon-brink-joining-tottenham-for15million/

Underpaid for Hojberg, overpaying for KWP. No one saw that coming did they ?

4 minutes ago, Suhari said:

£12M for KWP seems a bargain.

Really ? Hope you're proved right, but I don't see it as a bargain personally. 

[Toadhall Saint]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Underpaid for Hojberg, overpaying for KWP. No one saw that coming did they ?

Really ? Hope you're proved right, but I don't see it as a bargain personally. 

£15m last year of contract, what did you expect?

 

£12m for a very promising LB, what did you expect?

[Badger]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

£15m last year of contract, what did you expect?

 

£12m for a very promising LB, what did you expect?

Hojberg is a full international, c £20m, possibly £15plus KWP (although still light in my view).

KWP, no more than £10m for a player clearly surplus to requirements at spurs. In January £5m might have been closer to the mark.

[SaintsFan86]

Its 18 For Pierre, 15, Plus 3 in add ons.

KWP Is closer to 10 👍

[S-Clarke]

#ITKWatch

[SuperSAINT]

31 minutes ago, the wedge said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/08/04/pierre-emile-hojbjergon-brink-joining-tottenham-for15million/

Whether it’s true or not, it’s not crazily different in detail to the Lyall Thomas story from Sky Sports a few days ago.

[saint1977]

1 minute ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Its 18 For Pierre, 15, Plus 3 in add ons.

KWP Is closer to 10 👍

If true that’s closer to what I was expecting. Everton might have offered £25m but it could have been spread over 4 windows. This is a lesser total amount but mostly up front which suits Ralph. Means we can move on a replacement he wants, McKennie or otherwise. We’ve tied up a player that did well on loan and suits Ralph’s system better than Jose’s, and PEH may suit Mourinho’s better. 

Hope Brendan comes in for Vest now for their Europa League campaign. Lemina who knows. Hoedt hopefully gone on a fee related to his outstanding wages. 

[SaintsFan86]

2 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

If true that’s closer to what I was expecting. Everton might have offered £25m but it could have been spread over 4 windows. This is a lesser total amount but mostly up front which suits Ralph. Means we can move on a replacement he wants, McKennie or otherwise. We’ve tied up a player that did well on loan and suits Ralph’s system better than Jose’s, and PEH may suit Mourinho’s better. 

Hope Brendan comes in for Vest now for their Europa League campaign. Lemina who knows. Hoedt hopefully gone on a fee related to his outstanding wages. 

And depending on whether Fulham win the Playoffs tonight, We could reach anywhere between 8/12 for Reed. And that will effectively pay for Mckennie. So we could break even on our transfer whilst having a stronger team.

[Toon Saint]

Alex Crook has clearly forgotten to refresh his twitter feed before posting (for once) as he’s saying Saints still holding out for £25m, and Spurs want deal done by end of month.