Rivers of Blood, and censorship.

[LGTL]

Don’t get the fuss over this. Planned marches?! They guy pleaded guilty FFS.

[hypochondriac]

He's preferable to Douglas Murray mind.

I know why you posted that. Here's Douglas writing a typically superb and balanced article on the matter. I'd be interested to know which parts of it you disagree with.

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/tommy-robinson-grooming-gangs-britain-persecutes-journalist/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

"The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation."

Edited 31 May, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Orange]

Not true. We're deriding him for being such a bellend that he went and broke a law that he was already on a suspended sentence for breaking previously, and in doing so caused the very real possibility of mistrial which could have seen the defendants walk free on a technicality. If he really, genuinely cared about bringing those men to justice for their actions then he would have stayed well away. But his actions betray his real agenda, which is to stoke up as much anti-islamic hatred as he possibly can.

 

I'm no authoritarian and I don't want to see him and his ilk silenced. I want to see them given the opportunity to spout their bigoted bile and nonsense because, as both he and his Britain First contemporaries Golding and Fransen have shown, give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. These people are not the brave free speech warriors that some are trying to make them out to be. They are violent, hate-filled morons who fail to see the irony in the fact that they constantly call for immigrants to respect our laws but they can't respect them themselves.

 

And by the way, following your assertion that he was only convicted of fraud because of his beliefs - are you suggesting that he did not get a fair trial because of media bias? There are laws against that you know

 

But you're so so blinded by your hatred of him you'll refuse to ever accept he was in fact well ahead of his time on several issues. I remember him being mocked as some nut-case for suggesting there were 'muslim grooming gangs'. I mean just watch the Paxman interview if you need proof of that. And you'll never accept that him and the EDL, ugly as it was, was just a symptom of the systematic failures of a complacent middle class establishment.

 

I'm not suggesting he didn't get a fair trial, I'm saying it's blindingly obvious he was pursued because of his political activity, they dug up the offence years later. And you can see how it works too, the state working hand in glove with the media. Now every article gleefully discredits him as a 'convicted fraudster', as if he hacked the credit cards of elderly ladies, when he really just helped his brother in law with a deposit. Are you that much of a puritan to denounce someone for that?

 

And whether it's Robinson, Geert Wilders, or other vocal critics of Islam on the continent , the left doesn't so much as bat an eyelid as to the fact these people have numerous attempts on their lives, have to go into hiding, live double lives- in fact many are so authoritarian and intolerant they say they 'deserve it'.

Edited 31 May, 2018 by Orange

[Sheaf Saint]

But you're so so blinded by your hatred of him you'll refuse to ever accept he was in fact well ahead of his time on several issues. I remember him being mocked as some nut-case for suggesting there were 'muslim grooming gangs'. I mean just watch the Paxman interview if you need proof of that. And you'll never accept that him and the EDL, ugly as it was, was just a symptom of the systematic failures of a complacent middle class establishment.

 

I'm not suggesting he didn't get a fair trial, I'm saying it's blindingly obvious he was pursued because of his political activity, they dug up the offence years later. And you can see how it works too, the state working hand in glove with the media. Now every article gleefully discredits him as a 'convicted fraudster', as if he hacked the credit cards of elderly ladies, when he really just helped his brother in law with a deposit. Are you that much of a puritan to denounce someone for that?

 

And whether it's Robinson, Geert Wilders, or other vocal critics of Islam on the continent , the left doesn't so much as bat an eyelid as to the fact these people have numerous attempts on their lives, have to go into hiding, live double lives- in fact many are so authoritarian and intolerant they say they 'deserve it'.

 

He might have been one of the first people to start being vocal about grooming gangs, but let's not pretend he was some fearsome, independent investigator who managed to unearth evidence of such things long before anybody else had. That's just absurd. The only reason he even knew about it was because there had already been a number of high profile cases that he jumped on to use as 'evidence' that Muslims = evil.

 

As for the 'convicted fraudster' thing, you seem to be willfully ignoring that the deposit case isn't the only item on his rap sheet. Are you forgetting that he committed passport fraud as well? Quite ironic seeing as he seems to have such a massive problem with immigrants breaking laws himself. And anyway, in my experience the line of attack most media use tends to be that he has previously been jailed for assault and football hooliganism, which is surely much more of a reflection of his true character.

 

He may have tried his hardest to distance himself from the EDL over the years and try to make himself out to be in some way respectable. But he will always be the same hate-filled, bigoted moron he has always been. You can dress a pig in a suit but it will still be a pig, as the saying goes.

[Batman]

On another note. Look at the state of London.

This is a common theme in a once great city, now gripped with political correctness and a crusade of gender neutral toilets

 

[ericb]

On another note. Look at the state of London.

This is a common theme in a once great city, now gripped with political correctness and a crusade of gender neutral toilets

 

 

A common theme? ???

 

Jesus i've lived in London for close to 12 years in total and i've first hand seen less physical violence than i ever saw in Southampton, less knife crime than i ever saw in Southampton, less gun crime than i ever saw in Southampton and about the same amount of muggings.

 

This line that London is somehow out of control is crazy, yeah there's a problem with working class kids killing working class kids (and it's a real and horrible problem) but it's largely self contained and the majority of people will almost never see it or be affected by it.

 

Also it's worth noting that it's not just a problem isolated to London (that's just were it gets reported on more), Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham and others have all had a massive upsurge in violent crime amongst young working class people too.

 

The reason seems pretty to simple to most (though the government do nothing to fix it), austerity measures have hit everything, from cuts in the police, to social services, to the ability to claim benefit, after school clubs and the rest.

 

Poverty is the cause for that, and a government that has failed the weakest.

[sadoldgit]

On another note. Look at the state of London.

This is a common theme in a once great city, now gripped with political correctness and a crusade of gender neutral toilets

 

 

You really aren’t the full ticket are you?

[Jonnyboy]

I know why you posted that. Here's Douglas writing a typically superb and balanced article on the matter. I'd be interested to know which parts of it you disagree with.

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/tommy-robinson-grooming-gangs-britain-persecutes-journalist/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

"The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation."

 

And the only reason the EDL lot keep harping on about it is because they hate Muslims. Same as how suddenly they are all about gay rights because Muslims are perceived as homophobic.

The amusing thing is how similar the right wing Caucasian westerners and rightwing Muslims (and rightwing Jews) all are to each other.

[hypochondriac]

And the only reason the EDL lot keep harping on about it is because they hate Muslims. Same as how suddenly they are all about gay rights because Muslims are perceived as homophobic.

The amusing thing is how similar the right wing Caucasian westerners and rightwing Muslims (and rightwing Jews) all are to each other.

That may well be true- certainly hatred of all Muslims will be the motivation for some bigoted types who are members of the edl- but I would suggest that normal members of the public should be equally shocked and appaled by gangs commiting some of the worst crimes imaginable- primarily British Pakistani Muslim gangs raping underage White girls with no remorse because they see them as sub human. Any right thinking person should be absolutely horrified regardless of their biases towards Muslims or their thoughts on Islam.

 

Hopefully we can all agree on that.

Edited 1 June, 2018 by hypochondriac

[sadoldgit]

Along with the countless number of sexual abuse cases carried out by members of the Christian clergy or millions of sexual assaults committed by humans against other humans over the centuries I’m sure you would agree. Unless you just have an issue against Muslims of course.

[hypochondriac]

Along with the countless number of sexual abuse cases carried out by members of the Christian clergy or millions of sexual assaults committed by humans against other humans over the centuries I’m sure you would agree. Unless you just have an issue against Muslims of course.

"For too long in this country, we the media, the chattering classes, the Liberal elite have ignored the issue of grooming gangs of young vulnerable teenage girls who have been victimised, drugged, raped and abused. Whether it's the Rotherham case or the other cases located across the country, it is both the conclusion of the prosecutor in the Rotherham case- British Pakistani Muslim naseer asral- and indeed the official inquiry into why it took so long for these young vulnerable underage girls to get justice, that fear of racism prevented us from coming to the defence of underage girls. This means that the state was scared that it would be accused of being racist if it rightly arrested and prosecuted largely British Pakistani Muslims men in their abuse of underage White teenage girls. So for fear of appearing racist there was a silence across the country as multiple cases of grooming gangs emerged up and down the country as evidenced now by multiple successful prosecutions but sadly too late.

 

If we hadn't all been silent, if we had all addressed this issue head on when it needed to be addressed then the void would not have emerged for the populist agitators to fill that gap and become popular as a result of addressing what is a legitimate issue, ended up highjacking what should have been the concern of every right minded citizen in this country.

 

Unfortunately it take a bit of courage to talk about something that people will hurl abuse at you for talking about. Sarah champion of the Labour Party attempted to address this and lost her position on the front bench as a result. There have been multiple cases now and it's beyond any level of doubt that there is a disproportionate number of British Muslims involved in grooming gangs against underage White girls and to say that is to report on the facts, it's not to be racist and if we're backing away from this conversation, all we're doing is leaving the ground open on what is a legitimate issue which requires addressing, allowing the populist to highjack the issue and make it their own.

 

It's easy in this case to pick on the bogeyman, but the truth is that our silence over decades in this country is the real bogeyman and that's the real thing we should despise- our own cowardice in the face of grooming of young girls and our conspiracy of silence. "

 

I'll highlight the pertinent bit again just so you can understand the clear difference between historical sexual abuse in the Catholic Church - which is abhorrent in case it has to be said - and these cases:

 

"There have been multiple cases now and it's beyond any level of doubt that there is a disproportionate number of British Muslims involved in grooming gangs against underage White girls and to say that is to report on the facts, it's not to be racist."

 

So spare me your pathetic false equivalences and your whatabboutery, there is a clear and PRESENT problem with a disproportionate number of Pakistani Muslim rape gangs who abuse white British girls whilst the media and wider society have been largely silent and in some cases covered it up. Other cases of rape and sexual abuse are entirely irrelevant to the discussion and the very specific cultural and religions motivations for these abuses.

[Batman]

Soggy was all over the ched Evans case. Telling us all how disgustingly guilty he was. No whataboutery on that front

[CB Fry]

Soggy was all over the ched Evans case. Telling us all how disgustingly guilty he was. No whataboutery on that front

If his name was Chevkar Al-Evkhar I seriously doubt he would have had the fawning facebook fanboy justice brigade campaigning for him like the Welsh Casanova had on his side.

[Batman]

If his name was Chevkar Al-Evkhar I seriously doubt he would have had the fawning facebook fanboy justice brigade campaigning for him like the Welsh Casanova had on his side.

 

And I doubt Evans would have had he been caught bonking kids

[CB Fry]

And I doubt Evans would have had he been caught bonking kids

So it's a completely different case altogether with no connection to child grooming rings at all? Fancy that.

[Batman]

So it's a completely different case altogether with no connection to child grooming rings at all? Fancy that.

 

Whataboutery only available to sex grooming gangs it seems.

[sadoldgit]

Soggy was all over the ched Evans case. Telling us all how disgustingly guilty he was. No whataboutery on that front

 

Strangely enough the jury in his trial came to the same conclusion, as did many people commenting about the case on here. His efforts to go to appeal fell on deaf ears for various reasons and he served his sentence for rape. Granted he was finally acquitted of the charge of rape, although many people still found his behaviour that night to be reprehensible - unlike people like you, who seem to think that it is a normal night out to have sex with women you have never met before you walked into their room and so drunk they can barely stand up and have no recollection of what happen to them the next day.

 

No doubt you (and your mate hypo) will also be astonished to hear that murder, gbh, rape, serious sexual assault - in fact any crimes committed in this country, are not somehow worse if committed by Muslims or immigrants. I know, it is staggering isnt it? A black guy threatening a white guy with a knife is no different to a white guy threatening a black guy with a knife. Jeez.

 

Another fact that will no doubt freak you and hypo out - during the 8 years I worked for the CPS in the SE Area, not once was a case dropped if it met the criteria for going to trial for fear that it might upset someone somewhere because it involved Muslims or immigrants. Bizarre eh? People committing crimes, being charged and going to court no matter what religion, skin colour, sexual orientation, creed etc. etc. In fact, in the many many meetings I sat in, not once was any of these factors mentioned as being of any relevance. People were charged and tried according to the crimes they were alleged to have committed. All this and without Tommy's help too.

[hypochondriac]

Strangely enough the jury in his trial came to the same conclusion, as did many people commenting about the case on here. His efforts to go to appeal fell on deaf ears for various reasons and he served his sentence for rape. Granted he was finally acquitted of the charge of rape, although many people still found his behaviour that night to be reprehensible - unlike people like you, who seem to think that it is a normal night out to have sex with women you have never met before you walked into their room and so drunk they can barely stand up and have no recollection of what happen to them the next day.

 

No doubt you (and your mate hypo) will also be astonished to hear that murder, gbh, rape, serious sexual assault - in fact any crimes committed in this country, are not somehow worse if committed by Muslims or immigrants. I know, it is staggering isnt it? A black guy threatening a white guy with a knife is no different to a white guy threatening a black guy with a knife. Jeez.

 

Another fact that will no doubt freak you and hypo out - during the 8 years I worked for the CPS in the SE Area, not once was a case dropped if it met the criteria for going to trial for fear that it might upset someone somewhere because it involved Muslims or immigrants. Bizarre eh? People committing crimes, being charged and going to court no matter what religion, skin colour, sexual orientation, creed etc. etc. In fact, in the many many meetings I sat in, not once was any of these factors mentioned as being of any relevance. People were charged and tried according to the crimes they were alleged to have committed. All this and without Tommy's help too.

Did you even bother to read my post? Did you notice that the Muslim judge who has been involved in these cases has stated that many of these cases were not tried earlier due to a fear of racism? Did you watch the BBC drama three girls that clearly outlined the problem? Gangs of Pakistani Muslims have raped teenage white girls and they have either not been prosecuted or seen big delays in justice because people in authority were scared they would be accused of racism for confronting the issue and doing something about it. Your personal experience with the cps is entirely irrelevant- those with direct experience in these cases have outlined the problems clearly and if you continue to deny it - as you obviously will- then it's tantamount to stick your fingers in your ears and humming loudly.

[View From The Top]

You've got to be very simple to be defending Yaxley.

 

He pleaded guilty as he was bang to rights and the assertion that it's because he uncovered Muslim grooming gangs is beyond laughable. He heard about them because they were already being prosecuted, by a Muslim DPP.

 

No one, left or right, denies their existence and many, left and right, what the c*nts hung from the rafters, just as most, left and right, would for any child abuse gang be them any colour or any religion.

 

I think we'd all, left or right, also like to see those in authority, who let down the kids time and time again, losing their jobs.

[hypochondriac]

You've got to be very simple to be defending Yaxley.

 

He pleaded guilty as he was bang to rights and the assertion that it's because he uncovered Muslim grooming gangs is beyond laughable. He heard about them because they were already being prosecuted, by a Muslim DPP.

 

No one, left or right, denies their existence and many, left and right, what the c*nts hung from the rafters, just as most, left and right, would for any child abuse gang be them any colour or any religion.

 

I think we'd all, left or right, also like to see those in authority, who let down the kids time and time again, losing their jobs.

Hopefully everyone agrees with that--I don't think many on here have been defending him for this- but let's not pretend that there isn't an insidious culture being exported by a faction of the Pakistani Muslim community that means there is a disproportionate number engaged in these activities. To acknowledge this fact and to discuss how to solve this problem should never be labelled as "racist" or nonsense terms like islamophobic otherwise you're engaging in similar sorts of behaviour that meant that the Rotherham rapists got away with their crimes for so long.

 

The disproportionate numbers of people from these communities engaged in these acts and the part their specific culture played in it has to be acknowledged by the security services in this country of we do not want more of this in the future. As previously mentioned, to ignore or try to silence legitimate discussions that should be taking place about this issue simply leaves a vacuum for people like Tommy or maybe others with more overtly racists motives.

Edited 2 June, 2018 by hypochondriac

[sadoldgit]

Did you even bother to read my post? Did you notice that the Muslim judge who has been involved in these cases has stated that many of these cases were not tried earlier due to a fear of racism? Did you watch the BBC drama three girls that clearly outlined the problem? Gangs of Pakistani Muslims have raped teenage white girls and they have either not been prosecuted or seen big delays in justice because people in authority were scared they would be accused of racism for confronting the issue and doing something about it. Your personal experience with the cps is entirely irrelevant- those with direct experience in these cases have outlined the problems clearly and if you continue to deny it - as you obviously will- then it's tantamount to stick your fingers in your ears and humming loudly.

 

Yes. Yes. There is a big difference between someone's perception of what could happen and what actually does happen. Do you have any hard evidence that no one was prosecuted through fear of being accused of racism? Yes I did watch the drama. I seem to recall that there were bigger concerns about the victims being credible witnesses than about the religion of the alleged perpetrators. My personal experience with the CPS is not at all irrelevant. I clearly have a lot more knowledge of the Criminal Justice System and how it works than you do. Given that you believe you have more knowledge about the (lack of) equality of pay with women than a lady on here because you work with a few women I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you know more about the CJS than I do. Where do I ever deny that there are or have been problems. There were clearly cock ups but there are huge differences to people not doing their jobs properly and systematic bling eye turning to criminal activities because of race. I can tell you 100% that if cases are brought before the CPS and they are not charged when they should be, the sh*t hits the fan big time. The same happens with the police. Records are kept and everyone with their name on these allegations is held accountable when the system fails - which it does occasionally as no system is perfect.

 

Your avatar gives you away more so than your support on the Terrorist thread for other racists on here, far right mouthpiece Katie Hopkins, Boris Johnson,

Jacob Rees-Mogg and your support here for the well know far right agitator Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. You know full well that Pepe Le Frog has been appropriated by the alt right.

 

So then, just to spell it out for you - mistakes have been made in these cases but offenders are now behind bars and other alleged offenders are being prosecuted for similar crimes. I have yet to see anyone brought to book for the perversion of justice by refusing to prosecute a case for fear of upsetting anyone due to their race or religion. If you had any working knowledge of the CJS whatsoever you would know that it is much more serious to ignore alleged crimes than it is to upset someone over racial issues. Cases are dropped if it is either not in the public interest to prosecute or if it is believed that there is no probability of a successful prosecution. No rape case, be it by a footballer or by gangs of men, will be dropped because it is not in the public interest to prosecute. Cases will be dropped if it is felt that the evidence does not hold up in court. If you were paying attention to the BBC drama you will know that there were big problems with prosecution which was down to the victims themselves. Go back through any court records you like over the years and you will find plenty of successful prosecutions against offenders who happened to be Muslim (or any other religion you care to mention). Just ask yourself why your favourite football hooligan isnt carrying out his personal crusade against those in "our" church who have been carrying out similar offences against children for years. I'll help you out here Pepe, it is because they are not Muslims.

[van Hanegem]

Geert Wilders announced that he'll cross the channel to march for Tommy, a real hero... Well, I guess Wilders won't be allowed on British soil but I wonder if his pr-officers actually know who Tommy Robinson really is. Maybe they should be on Saintsweb!

[Orange]

He might have been one of the first people to start being vocal about grooming gangs, but let's not pretend he was some fearsome, independent investigator who managed to unearth evidence of such things long before anybody else had. That's just absurd. The only reason he even knew about it was because there had already been a number of high profile cases that he jumped on to use as 'evidence' that Muslims = evil.

 

As for the 'convicted fraudster' thing, you seem to be willfully ignoring that the deposit case isn't the only item on his rap sheet. Are you forgetting that he committed passport fraud as well? Quite ironic seeing as he seems to have such a massive problem with immigrants breaking laws himself. And anyway, in my experience the line of attack most media use tends to be that he has previously been jailed for assault and football hooliganism, which is surely much more of a reflection of his true character.

 

He may have tried his hardest to distance himself from the EDL over the years and try to make himself out to be in some way respectable. But he will always be the same hate-filled, bigoted moron he has always been. You can dress a pig in a suit but it will still be a pig, as the saying goes.

 

You don't need to be an undercover journalist, he was just an ordinary working class lad speaking out about what he saw happening in his own community. With people like you it's always 'either or' with Robinson, it is possible to not like the guy but still recognise that it's blatantly obvious he's been persecuted and pursued by the state for his political activity. And to give him a degree of credit for having been one of the first to vocally speak out, at massive risk to himself. But the left seem not to bat an eyelid as to why in 21st century Europe people have their life endangered for criticising a religion.

 

The 'passport fraud' was borrowing a mates passport to get into the US. And scrapping at football as a youngster..well in my books that hardly makes you a criminal villain, but maybe you're very puritanical.

[Orange]

You've got to be very simple to be defending Yaxley.

 

He pleaded guilty as he was bang to rights and the assertion that it's because he uncovered Muslim grooming gangs is beyond laughable. He heard about them because they were already being prosecuted, by a Muslim DPP.

 

No one, left or right, denies their existence and many, left and right, what the c*nts hung from the rafters, just as most, left and right, would for any child abuse gang be them any colour or any religion.

 

I think we'd all, left or right, also like to see those in authority, who let down the kids time and time again, losing their jobs.

 

You don't have to be 'simple' to feel uncomfortable with someone being given 13 months for reporting on a trial that was already in the public domain. The BBC had released all the names.

 

And you make out that everyone, 'left or right', is united and there's 'nothing to fret about'.

 

Sarah Champion was fired by Corbyn and the Labour Party for so much as naming the problem.

[sadoldgit]

You don't need to be an undercover journalist, he was just an ordinary working class lad speaking out about what he saw happening in his own community. With people like you it's always 'either or' with Robinson, it is possible to not like the guy but still recognise that it's blatantly obvious he's been persecuted and pursued by the state for his political activity. And to give him a degree of credit for having been one of the first to vocally speak out, at massive risk to himself. But the left seem not to bat an eyelid as to why in 21st century Europe people have their life endangered for criticising a religion.

 

The 'passport fraud' was borrowing a mates passport to get into the US. And scrapping at football as a youngster..well in my books that hardly makes you a criminal villain, but maybe you're very puritanical.

 

He may be many thinks but Stephen Yaxley- Lennon is certainly not an “ordinary working class lad.” Nice of you to gloss over his convictions for violence. As for his imprisonment, he was warned that he would go to jail and put himself in that position again. His own fault, not a conspiracy against him. And I think any right thinking person would have a problem with any extremist threatening lives of others, it doesn’t make your “Tommy” some kind of messiah. By his own actions the bloke is quite clearly a racist bigot and is supported by racist bigots. Please let’s nit pretend that the EDL and the BNP are some kind of liberal do gooders. You only need to look at the knuckle draggers who pitched up at Downing Street in support of their “Tommy” to see where it is at.

[rallyboy]

Stevie wasn't detained for reporting a trial, he was arrested for contempt of court because he was interfering with a trial - for the second time.

 

There are thousands of people on social media who need to get informed before they jump on the far right freedom bus.

The far right is clumsily selling the idea that illegally quizzing defendants, solicitors and jury members within the precincts of the court is the same as reporting the facts.

People can either choose to buy in as it suits their agenda - or perhaps follow meekly along because they're as thick as pig's ****?

 

Either way, if you are looking for a genuine free speech battle to support, and there are many out there, this isn't one.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He may be many thinks but Stephen Yaxley- Lennon is certainly not an “ordinary working class lad.” Nice of you to gloss over his convictions for violence. As for his imprisonment, he was warned that he would go to jail and put himself in that position again. His own fault, not a conspiracy against him. And I think any right thinking person would have a problem with any extremist threatening lives of others, it doesn’t make your “Tommy” some kind of messiah. By his own actions the bloke is quite clearly a racist bigot and is supported by racist bigots. Please let’s nit pretend that the EDL and the BNP are some kind of liberal do gooders. You only need to look at the knuckle draggers who pitched up at Downing Street in support of their “Tommy” to see where it is at.

 

Why do you refuse to call him by his chosen name, I bet you would if he wanted to be Tina Robinson or Mohamed Akram.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[benjii]

You don't need to be an undercover journalist, he was just an ordinary working class lad speaking out about what he saw happening in his own community. With people like you it's always 'either or' with Robinson, it is possible to not like the guy but still recognise that it's blatantly obvious he's been persecuted and pursued by the state for his political activity. And to give him a degree of credit for having been one of the first to vocally speak out, at massive risk to himself. But the left seem not to bat an eyelid as to why in 21st century Europe people have their life endangered for criticising a religion.

 

The 'passport fraud' was borrowing a mates passport to get into the US. And scrapping at football as a youngster..well in my books that hardly makes you a criminal villain, but maybe you're very puritanical.

 

You have a remarkably relaxed to attitude to people entering a country on false-papers for someone who appears pretty anti-immigration. Or is it ok if you're white?

[hypochondriac]

Stevie wasn't detained for reporting a trial, he was arrested for contempt of court because he was interfering with a trial - for the second time.

 

There are thousands of people on social media who need to get informed before they jump on the far right freedom bus.

The far right is clumsily selling the idea that illegally quizzing defendants, solicitors and jury members within the precincts of the court is the same as reporting the facts.

People can either choose to buy in as it suits their agenda - or perhaps follow meekly along because they're as thick as pig's ****?

 

Either way, if you are looking for a genuine free speech battle to support, and there are many out there, this isn't one.

 

I agree. It appears he did the crime and should face the consequences for that.

[Sheaf Saint]

You don't need to be an undercover journalist, he was just an ordinary working class lad speaking out about what he saw happening in his own community. With people like you it's always 'either or' with Robinson, it is possible to not like the guy but still recognise that it's blatantly obvious he's been persecuted and pursued by the state for his political activity. And to give him a degree of credit for having been one of the first to vocally speak out, at massive risk to himself. But the left seem not to bat an eyelid as to why in 21st century Europe people have their life endangered for criticising a religion.

 

The 'passport fraud' was borrowing a mates passport to get into the US. And scrapping at football as a youngster..well in my books that hardly makes you a criminal villain, but maybe you're very puritanical.

 

WTF? Maybe in your eyes it doesn't, but in the eyes of the law it does. Do you not see the inherent hypocrisy in a man who shouts very loudly about immigration into his own country then trying to enter another country on a false passport?

 

For someone who 'doesn't like the guy' you seem to be going to some pretty extreme lengths to stick up for him.

[sadoldgit]

Why do you refuse to call him by his chosen name, I bet you would if he wanted to be Tina Robinson or Mohamed Akram

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon has used several different names. Which one would you prefer I use?

[Batman]

A common theme? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

Jesus i've lived in London for close to 12 years in total and i've first hand seen less physical violence than i ever saw in Southampton, less knife crime than i ever saw in Southampton, less gun crime than i ever saw in Southampton and about the same amount of muggings.

 

This line that London is somehow out of control is crazy, yeah there's a problem with working class kids killing working class kids (and it's a real and horrible problem) but it's largely self contained and the majority of people will almost never see it or be affected by it.

 

Also it's worth noting that it's not just a problem isolated to London (that's just were it gets reported on more), Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham and others have all had a massive upsurge in violent crime amongst young working class people too.

 

The reason seems pretty to simple to most (though the government do nothing to fix it), austerity measures have hit everything, from cuts in the police, to social services, to the ability to claim benefit, after school clubs and the rest.

 

Poverty is the cause for that, and a government that has failed the weakest.

 

I wonder how many more have been stabbed or now shot in London since you laughed?

[Saint86]

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post this, but can't be bothered to start a new thread..

 

Mother and baby stabbed in London tonight, both in a serious condition. Utterly disgusting.

 

Add that to the 4 other stabbings in the last week, and the guy shotgunned in the face.

 

Just what the hell has happened to society ffs. No wonder people are leaving London.

[Batman]

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post this, but can't be bothered to start a new thread..

 

Mother and baby stabbed in London tonight, both in a serious condition. Utterly disgusting.

 

Add that to the 4 other stabbings in the last week, and the guy shotgunned in the face.

 

Just what the hell has happened to society ffs. No wonder people are leaving London.

 

Nothing is happening apparently. Ask Eric

[hypochondriac]

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post this, but can't be bothered to start a new thread..

 

Mother and baby stabbed in London tonight, both in a serious condition. Utterly disgusting.

 

Add that to the 4 other stabbings in the last week, and the guy shotgunned in the face.

 

Just what the hell has happened to society ffs. No wonder people are leaving London.

Everyone knows what has happened to society in London. Giant swathes of disaffected youths, many from ethnic minorities or countries outside of the UK who are poor, with little respect for the law and no common identity with other UK citizens are killing each other and sometimes other innocent people. Immigration has undoubtedly been a contributing factor but its obviously not that simple and you can blame social factors and lack of purpose and an education too along with soft policing and a met police force who would rather quibble over nonsense definitions like islamaphobia and prosecuting evil twitter trolls than actually doing their job and getting a grip on serious crimes- cuts in police funding haven't helped in that department either.

 

So you have a huge influx of people from outside of the UK, combined with some of the native population from the bottom of the social rung with not much money, not much to do, spare time on their hands and a smaller and less well funded police force with skewed priorities too scared to crack down on law and disorder. Combine that with the drugs and gang culture and crime escalating to the degree it has is hardly a surprise.

 

Its too late to do much about the levels of immigration unfortunately- that ship has sailed- but some immediate things you can do which the police would wholeheartedly support is to beef up the Met- both the mayor and the government are at fault here- defund pointless online troll initiatives and divert all the manpower and resources from that into policing on the street. Bring back stop and search- I think they have done this now- and make sure that these characters know that anything like this lawless behaviour will not be tolerated.

 

In tandem with any police initiatives you need to look at the other causes of crime. Have properly funded youth initiatives that give these people a purpose and goals in life to steer them away from knives and violence. You're not going to stop everyone in this way but at least it gives some people a chance. Probably the best thing to do would be to get the people of these communities involved since they know the perpetrators and victims the best.

 

I'm genuinely at a loss for words to try to explain why someone would stab a baby though- that's a whole other level of depravity.

Edited 4 June, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Orange]

WTF? Maybe in your eyes it doesn't, but in the eyes of the law it does. Do you not see the inherent hypocrisy in a man who shouts very loudly about immigration into his own country then trying to enter another country on a false passport?

 

For someone who 'doesn't like the guy' you seem to be going to some pretty extreme lengths to stick up for him.

 

How am I going to extreme lengths? I never claimed he was an angel, nor has he ever done. Just saying borrowing a mates passport to visit the US to speak at an event, or scrapping at football, is hardly on par with what Robinson campaigns against. Namely Islamist radicalisation and industrial sex grooming. I don't see the 'hypocrisy'.

[Orange]

You have a remarkably relaxed to attitude to people entering a country on false-papers for someone who appears pretty anti-immigration. Or is it ok if you're white?

 

 

He never intended to stay. He wanted to speak at an event and was a naughty boy. Bizarre to try and make some comparison between that and what's happened over the last 3 years in Europe.

[Orange]

He may be many thinks but Stephen Yaxley- Lennon is certainly not an “ordinary working class lad.” Nice of you to gloss over his convictions for violence. As for his imprisonment, he was warned that he would go to jail and put himself in that position again. His own fault, not a conspiracy against him. And I think any right thinking person would have a problem with any extremist threatening lives of others, it doesn’t make your “Tommy” some kind of messiah. By his own actions the bloke is quite clearly a racist bigot and is supported by racist bigots. Please let’s nit pretend that the EDL and the BNP are some kind of liberal do gooders. You only need to look at the knuckle draggers who pitched up at Downing Street in support of their “Tommy” to see where it is at.

 

Two of his 'violent convictions'; one was punching a neo-nazi, one was for attacking Muslims who were burning poppies. He's not an angel but he's not some thug going around smashing up old grannies as you'd have us believe.

 

Why is he not an ordinary working class lad, cos you don't like him? And again- you don't have to like Robinson, or what he says, to accept he's been persecuted by the state for his beliefs. Anyone who does the slightest bit of research into what he's been through the last decade would understand that. It's pretty laughable people like you are unable distinguish between genuine neo-nazi groups like C18 and then someone like Robinson.

 

Robinson echoes the thoughts of a majority of ordinary European citizens, as much as you'll carry on painting him as some fringe racist figure. And he's not a messiah, and I don't agree with a lot of what he's done, but I respect the immense danger he's put himself in for criticising Islam.

[sadoldgit]

Two of his 'violent convictions'; one was punching a neo-nazi, one was for attacking Muslims who were burning poppies. He's not an angel but he's not some thug going around smashing up old grannies as you'd have us believe.

 

Why is he not an ordinary working class lad, cos you don't like him? And again- you don't have to like Robinson, or what he says, to accept he's been persecuted by the state for his beliefs. Anyone who does the slightest bit of research into what he's been through the last decade would understand that. It's pretty laughable people like you are unable distinguish between genuine neo-nazi groups like C18 and then someone like Robinson.

 

Robinson echoes the thoughts of a majority of ordinary European citizens, as much as you'll carry on painting him as some fringe racist figure. And he's not a messiah, and I don't agree with a lot of what he's done, but I respect the immense danger he's put himself in for criticising Islam.

 

Convictions for violence are convictions for violence and you conveniently ignore his convictions for violence at football matches. No one said he goes round beating up grannies. How many ordinary working class lads as you call them give themselves double barrelled names are start right wing groups such as the English Defence League? I dont like because of his beliefs and his actions - nothing to do with being any kind of "class." Just how far right do you have to be before you become a proper Islamaphobe or racist? I dont agree with you that Yaxley-Lennon echoes the thoughts of a majority of "ordinary European citizens" and it is quite obvious that you are in a minority according to the polls. It is odd how supporters of extreme views kid themselves that they are in the majority when groups like the BNP and the EDL are clearly fringe groups and are supported by the few remaining Neanderthals. Plenty of people have criticised the more unsavoury aspects of that religion without breaking the law or using violence. You and hypo both clearly support this bloke but try and pretend that you aren't as bad as he is by saying that you dont agree with a lot of what he has done. It doesnt work like that. As soon as you voice any kind of support for people like this you are saying it is ok. It is not ok. There is no acceptable face of racism or hatred of people who are different. I will give you a clue - ENGLISH Defence League.

[hypochondriac]

Do you have to mention my name in every post soggy? I know you're desperate to bracket me as an evil racist but it's pretty tiresome. Everyone can see what you're attempting- and failing- to do. Look at all those evil racists over at the Oxford Union who didn't agree with a lot of what Tommy Robinson said but felt he had something worth contributing. By your logic that makes them evil nazi supporters. Or does giving him a platform to speak and heard his ideas not count as "support"?

Edited 5 June, 2018 by hypochondriac

[sadoldgit]

He never intended to stay. He wanted to speak at an event and was a naughty boy. Bizarre to try and make some comparison between that and what's happened over the last 3 years in Europe.

 

So his attempt at illegal entry into another country makes him a "naughty boy" whereas if Muslims do it they are criminals? I see.

 

This is for Lord Duckhunter - he was born Stephen Christopher Yaxley. He then went on to acquire his step- father's name and became Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon. He names uses the name "Tommy Robinson" and has also used the names "Andrew McMaster" and "Paul Harris." Which name would you prefer I use when addressing him? He does seem to have a lot of names doesnt he?

 

As for you hypo, I clearly dont mention you in every post, but I do in some. The reason being that you finally outed yourself as an alt right supporter. Your early responses in the terrorist thread hinted as such but it is good to see you have finally nailed your colours to the mast and we can now lump you together with the likes of Sour Mash, Batman and Orange. At least with those three they dont pretend to be something they are not. It is good to see you finally embrace your inner far rightness after all of that earlier pretence.

 

Let's not pretend that "Tommy" has been misunderstood and is only against the extreme elements amongst Muslims and other immigrants. He has clearly come out against all Muslims migrating to this country and wants to stop the building of Mosques. As before, you will be able to find something in most extremist's repertoire that many reasonable people will be able to agree with, but if something looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is probably is a duck. Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is clearly a dyed in the wool racist/Islamaphobe and he is not a naughty boy, he is a convicted criminal.

[hypochondriac]

You can lump me in with whoever you like soggy and I'll continue to refute your lies and laugh at your fallacious arguments. The fact you think a frog picture outs me as an alt right supporter says more about you and your idiocy and close mindedness and is the reason I chose it in the first place. I'm perfectly happy for you to believe I'm an alt right loving, nazi sympathiser because your opinion of me is of zero consequence. You're a buffoon and how sad it must be to be someone like yourself who is incapable of understanding that people can have opinions that differ from your own without being a horrible racist or any number of other 'isms.' You must live in a very cossetted world.

 

I also notice you didn't answer anything I had said but that's par for the course for you.

Edited 5 June, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Verbal]

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post this, but can't be bothered to start a new thread..

 

Mother and baby stabbed in London tonight, both in a serious condition. Utterly disgusting.

 

Add that to the 4 other stabbings in the last week, and the guy shotgunned in the face.

 

Just what the hell has happened to society ffs. No wonder people are leaving London.

 

Are they? I wonder why...assuming there's any evidence. London is absolute miles from being the most violent major city in the world. By head of population (London is vastly larger than any other UK city), it's not even the worst in the UK - around eighth or ninth.

 

Despite the negative publicity, London does not even have the highest murder rate in England and Wales when population is taken into account.

 

Figures from the Office for National Statistics for homicides (also including manslaughter and infanticide), filtered by particular police constabularies, show the Met had the ninth highest homicide rate (12.2 per million population) in 2016/17, or the eighth highest if the 96 Hillsborough deaths added to South Yorkshire’s tally were excluded. Excluding South Yorkshire, Greater Manchester had the highest homicide rate (19.1) and Lincolnshire the second highest (17.5).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/05/how-does-londons-spate-of-killings-compare-with-other-cities

 

Even taking the 2018 figures into account, it's not going to alter London's ranking by much.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

This is for Lord Duckhunter - he was born Stephen Christopher Yaxley. He then went on to acquire his step- father's name and became Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon. He names uses the name "Tommy Robinson" and has also used the names "Andrew McMaster" and "Paul Harris." Which name would you prefer I use when addressing him? He does seem to have a lot of names doesnt he?

 

 

If I called Ali, Cassius Clay, you’d be wetting your pants and calling me all sorts. I see a lot of soft arsed lefties on social media keep refusing to call him Tommy Robinson. I hope he self defines as Tina Robinson than you’ll all be really confused, although it’s probably better he waits until he’s released for that one.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[hypochondriac]

If I called Ali, Cassius Clay, you’d be wetting your pants and calling me all sorts. I see a lot of soft arsed lefties on social media keep refusing to call him Tommy Robinson. I hope he self defines as Tina Robinson than you’ll all be really confused, although it’s probably better he waits until he’s released for that one.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Have you seen the videos where Lauren Southern legally changed her sex to male and then got into an argument with an activist and called her out for misgendering. The look on her face is priceless as she is completely unsure what to do.

[Pancake]

If I called Ali, Cassius Clay, you’d be wetting your pants and calling me all sorts. I see a lot of soft arsed lefties on social media keep refusing to call him Tommy Robinson. I hope he self defines as Tina Robinson than you’ll all be really confused, although it’s probably better he waits until he’s released for that one.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Vast difference between a legally changing of names and using a pseudonym.

[hypochondriac]

Vast difference between a legally changing of names and using a pseudonym.

 

I don't care because it's a pointless thing to argue about, but I don't think Ali ever legally changed his name.

[ericb]

Pretty big whitewash of facts to say he only has two convictions, one for punching a neo-nazi and one for punching a person burning poppies.

 

His convictions include,

 

Mortgage fraud,

Travelling on a fake passport (twice),

punching an undercover police officer after an argument at Luton airport,

Football violence,

incitement to racial hatred,

Using recording equipment in a court of law and breach of the peace,

 

and obviously most recently breaching the terms of the last suspended sentence he was given out (contempt of court is the actual charge although he was also arrested for breach of the peace again).

[Winnersaint]

If I called Ali, Cassius Clay, you’d be wetting your pants and calling me all sorts. I see a lot of soft arsed lefties on social media keep refusing to call him Tommy Robinson. I hope he self defines as Tina Robinson than you’ll all be really confused, although it’s probably better he waits until he’s released for that one.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Why ask the question? It's a deliberate insulting put down by us 'soft arsed lefties' , but you knew that.

[sadoldgit]

If I called Ali, Cassius Clay, you’d be wetting your pants and calling me all sorts. I see a lot of soft arsed lefties on social media keep refusing to call him Tommy Robinson. I hope he self defines as Tina Robinson than you’ll all be really confused, although it’s probably better he waits until he’s released for that one.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

 

My dear Duckster, I couldn't care less what you called Ali and it has nothing whatsoever to do with this bloke. If he were to call himself Tina or Jane or Mary it makes no difference because he will still be a far right racist agitator (sorry to use an "ist" hypo, but that is what he is despite you trying to find an acceptable side to his beliefs). What does confuse me is why you are so hung up on what he or others call him and you dont seem remotely bothered by his politics and beliefs. I know that you are still stuck in a pot cloud from the 60s but the world has moved on somewhat. We dont make shows like Love Thy Neighbour anymore, people like Stephen Tommy Robinson Yaxley-Lennon are, thankfully, in the minority and their views are seen

as abhorrent to most normal people.

 

Oh, and hypo, I really don't have issues with people with different views. I do have issues with people who have issues with those of different race or religion and more so with those who pretend that they don't, but clearly do.