West Ham v Saints Post Match Thread

[scotty]

I hope this is sorted quickly and the perpetrator gets banned from all football and prosecuted.

 

Les Reed is not going to get banned or prosecuted.

[simo]

Clearly not mate

Why do you think so , read her timeline , we do have our share of Neanderthal amongst our support after all

 

 

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I have had a look on her time line , not 1 other person collaborates her story like I said I find it hard to believe not 1 other person saw it ?

[Badger]

I am partially deaf and a good lip-reader. There was a brief TV (stream) shot of Mark Hughes. I am sure he said 'waste of space' about somebody. Sorry I didn't catch who he was talking about. Anyway, if he is speaking so frankly, lets hope that he will be prepared to read the riot act to players and try to sort the problem out. Right now he has non-performing players and his only option is to motivate them.

 

or drop them...

 

Problem is he might have been talking about the whole team.

[Mr Dad]

Thanks for reply Badger!

I find it difficult to be taken seriously sometimes. I agree with your two comments but didn't want to mention that kind of thing up front.

Straying off topic from saints here but I hope you will forgive me.

To understand deafness, 'The Silent World of Nicholas Quinn' Colin Dexter book or the Inspector Morse TV program of the same book are a good introduction into the problems deaf people have.

Trevor MacDonald was a good broadcaster and easy to lip read, Moira Stuart, impossible!

I don't know if forum members have ever noticed but many managers cover their mouths when speaking. I'm sure that's because they can be lip-read.

Rant over! I hope MH sorts it out as we are in trouble!

[johnnyboy]

I have had a look on her time line , not 1 other person collaborates her story like I said I find it hard to believe not 1 other person saw it ?

 

You’re not 60ish are you !![emoji16]

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Thanks for reply Badger!

I find it difficult to be taken seriously sometimes. I agree with your two comments but didn't want to mention that kind of thing up front.

Straying off topic from saints here but I hope you will forgive me.

To understand deafness, 'The Silent World of Nicholas Quinn' Colin Dexter book or the Inspector Morse TV program of the same book are a good introduction into the problems deaf people have.

Trevor MacDonald was a good broadcaster and easy to lip read, Moira Stuart, impossible!

I don't know if forum members have ever noticed but many managers cover their mouths when speaking. I'm sure that's because they can be lip-read.

Rant over! I hope MH sorts it out as we are in trouble!

 

I think I was pretty easy to lip read at 4:50pm on Sat, but just in case those soft arses in red and white couldn't, I gave them some sign language as well.

 

 

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[benjii]

We are so used to having the extra man in midfield and someone to pass to, all be it often backwards, now players get on the ball and can't find an open man. The man in possession is left with limited choices, play a risky pass, hoof it safe or hold on to it that little bit too long. Yesterday we saw the outcome of all three choices.

 

Either we get an extra man in midfield, or we have a consistent kick and rush approach. Right now the players don't know what they are doing. They have been playing the same way for two years or more. Not easy to suddenly change it and that has been obvious in the two games under Hughes.

 

I am not sure there is an answer here. Hughes is going to persist with this tactic because the previous one wasn't working. If that's the case, he needs to have much clearer thinking. For a safety first hoof ball approach to work he needs to drill players, ensure those selected know their roles and have midfielders that work their socks off in both directions. Does Tadic really fit that mould?

 

Personally I think Hughes' tactic it is doomed to fail because if you are not controlling the game you are inviting pressure and our back four are simply not good enough to rely on to keep a clean sheet. Puel's and MoPo's tactic of controlling the game through possession may have bored people to death, but it protected the back four by limiting their exposure to ANY attacks.

 

The way forward? I have thought about it for while now and I still don't really know, but I seriously doubt the Stephens/Hoedt, Lemina/Hoj and Redmond/Tadic combination will work playing this formation and approach. Playing in a 433, our problem was simply a lack of penetration in the final third and when the rare chance came along strikers not being clinical. Austin can provide that finish if offered the chances. Get him up top with Sims offering the energy and direct running on one side and Boufal some tricks on the other in a 433. Bring Romeu back into that three with Hoj next to him and Lemina just in front of them. Drop Hoedt or Stephens (both are failing to do the basics well enough) and bring Yoshida back. Even as I type this I am wincing. We are ****ed aren't we?

 

In terms of tactics, lets return to a possession game but with a fraction more risk in terms of forward pass. With regards to wide players, they must travel with the ball much more - just go down the line and attempt to get the corner at least. The idea that a wide man collects the ball in the final third and then passes it square or backwards is madness. The side has worked to get the ball in that position, now go and show us your pace and tricks. These are subtle changes and with the current personnel might not be enough, but what I saw yesterday made my eyes bleed and I am not sure I can watch that again.

 

Yep, I agree with most of that. Going Burnley isn't the answer. We need to play a similar shape to what the players are used to, get someone playing with a bit of confidence in the 10 role, up the intensity off the ball and make the most of Austin's current fitness.

[whelk]

Amazed to read some fans actually applauded the team at the final whistle.

 

Amazed to read some fans stayed til the final whistle. Oh forgot it is a sacred act and sacrilege to leave early. Quite a lot of us did though

[Wilf]

I have had a look on her time line , not 1 other person collaborates her story like I said I find it hard to believe not 1 other person saw it ?

 

Suze is a highly valued member of Saintslist and a Saints fan through and through so I suggest you try a bit harder to believe her story and bear in mind that not everyone bothers with Twitter.

[hypochondriac]

Amazed to read some fans stayed til the final whistle. Oh forgot it is a sacred act and sacrilege to leave early. Quite a lot of us did though

I left after half an hour and went to the pub. With hindsight it was absolutely the correct decision.

[shurlock]

I left after half an hour and went to the pub. With hindsight it was absolutely the correct decision.

 

Pretty gutsy of you at only two nil down. Even if we had little chance of mounting a comeback, don't know if i could ever leave a game that early after spending all day getting ready for the game.

[Dark Munster]

Only just into 4 pages to this thread so far after yesterday's complete shambles shows that the general apathy at the club is spreading to the fans. Who can blame them after the shabby treatment they've received in the past few seasons. Greed at the highest level is one of the factors that has led us to the brink of dropping into the Championship. It smacks of asset stripping. I fear we are on the verge of sinking like we did in 2003 after the FA Cup Final. The club may find it difficult to shift season tickets next time. A very sad and rapid decline which was wholly avoidable. Time for a mass clear out of the leeches who are sucking the life blood from our great club. They know who they are - no need to name them.

Is a picture ok?

 

[Dark Munster]

We are so used to having the extra man in midfield and someone to pass to, all be it often backwards, now players get on the ball and can't find an open man. The man in possession is left with limited choices, play a risky pass, hoof it safe or hold on to it that little bit too long. Yesterday we saw the outcome of all three choices.

 

Either we get an extra man in midfield, or we have a consistent kick and rush approach. Right now the players don't know what they are doing. They have been playing the same way for two years or more. Not easy to suddenly change it and that has been obvious in the two games under Hughes.

 

I am not sure there is an answer here. Hughes is going to persist with this tactic because the previous one wasn't working. If that's the case, he needs to have much clearer thinking. For a safety first hoof ball approach to work he needs to drill players, ensure those selected know their roles and have midfielders that work their socks off in both directions. Does Tadic really fit that mould?

 

Personally I think Hughes' tactic it is doomed to fail because if you are not controlling the game you are inviting pressure and our back four are simply not good enough to rely on to keep a clean sheet. Puel's and MoPo's tactic of controlling the game through possession may have bored people to death, but it protected the back four by limiting their exposure to ANY attacks.

 

The way forward? I have thought about it for while now and I still don't really know, but I seriously doubt the Stephens/Hoedt, Lemina/Hoj and Redmond/Tadic combination will work playing this formation and approach. Playing in a 433, our problem was simply a lack of penetration in the final third and when the rare chance came along strikers not being clinical. Austin can provide that finish if offered the chances. Get him up top with Sims offering the energy and direct running on one side and Boufal some tricks on the other in a 433. Bring Romeu back into that three with Hoj next to him and Lemina just in front of them. Drop Hoedt or Stephens (both are failing to do the basics well enough) and bring Yoshida back. Even as I type this I am wincing. We are ****ed aren't we?

 

In terms of tactics, lets return to a possession game but with a fraction more risk in terms of forward pass. With regards to wide players, they must travel with the ball much more - just go down the line and attempt to get the corner at least. The idea that a wide man collects the ball in the final third and then passes it square or backwards is madness. The side has worked to get the ball in that position, now go and show us your pace and tricks. These are subtle changes and with the current personnel might not be enough, but what I saw yesterday made my eyes bleed and I am not sure I can watch that again.

Good post. And the part in bold is exactly what I have in mind too.

[simo]

Suze is a highly valued member of Saintslist and a Saints fan through and through so I suggest you try a bit harder to believe her story and bear in mind that not everyone bothers with Twitter.

 

I'm sure she is but sorry it takes more than 1 person to say something for me to believe it !

[Pat from Poole]

I left at half-time.

 

Astonished that some fools clapped the team at the end.

[hypochondriac]

Pretty gutsy of you at only two nil down. Even if we had little chance of mounting a comeback, don't know if i could ever leave a game that early after spending all day getting ready for the game.

From memory it's the only time I have ever left an away game before the end. I'd been looking forward to the game all week but to display that level of ineptitude was the final straw. We went for an early beer before half time and quickly realised that we had no enthusiasm to return. I enjoyed myself at the pub far more than I ever would have at the game and I've watched too many games this year to know there was no chance that we would do anything. From the reports it sounds like I didn't miss anything at all.

[Ziggy]

I was in the Caribbean for the last ten days with no internet access. I was full of hope for a victory and when I heard the result I was totally deflated. I do now fear the worst.

[Bourne Valley Saint]

Sims and JWP and even McQueen when he last played, have all done well when picked. So why leave them out??? I'd have McQueen instead of Bertrand, play Yoshi and reluctantly Hoedt at CB's and move Stephens to right back He cant be any worse than Cedric and at least looks comfortable on the ball. A midfield of Romeu or Lemina (not both), Davis who at least looks as if he cares, and two of Sims, JWP or Bouffal or both if only one up front which sadly (because of his goal scoring record - not his commitment) has to be Long or if two up front Long and Austin. But judging by Austin's inability to raise his feet off the ground to challenge for a single header on Saturday it could be Gabbi but he looks absolutely hopeless at the moment. Sadly the whole squad seem to have had the life sucked out of them and there is a huge void bereft of any creativity, emotion, commitment, confidence and ability!!!

Seven years of evolving into a team capable of challenging the best, into this complete and utter fu**ing shambles. Nothing lasts for ever but I had hoped that after playing in Europe for two seasons on the trot we could maybe plan for trips to Italy and Spain rather than venturing yet again into the Championship. I suppose it all started with Koeman's greed which led to his premature departure which then led to two very negative managerial appointments. Such a wasted opportunity

[Born In The 80s]

I suppose it all started with Koeman's greed which led to his premature departure which then led to two very negative managerial appointments. Such a wasted opportunity

 

 

Don't fall for it.

 

Koeman wanted to stay. The club arrogantly started to believe in their own hype and gave him an ultimatum to either sign a new deal or go. He chose the latter and we have spiralled down the league ever since.

 

Krugar, Reed et al are the ones to blame for that. Not Koeman. When you have a manager that is finishing 6th and 7th with Southampton FC you do not force his hand.

[Bourne Valley Saint]

That's not what I heard - he "apparently" contacted Everton through his agent and they offered him a large sum to lure him over. He only did this in an effort to gain more money from Southampton as he expected the club to match Everton's offer, which they refused. He ended up going to a club that he didn't want to go to and we ended up employing someone that we didn't really want. Perhaps the club should have matched the offered salary but word was that they were glad to see the back of him. The rest is history! Although not to blame for our demise, he certainly started it if the above account is to be believed.

[SKD]

That's not what I heard - he "apparently" contacted Everton through his agent and they offered him a large sum to lure him over. He only did this in an effort to gain more money from Southampton as he expected the club to match Everton's offer, which they refused. He ended up going to a club that he didn't want to go to and we ended up employing someone that we didn't really want. Perhaps the club should have matched the offered salary but word was that they were glad to see the back of him. The rest is history! Although not to blame for our demise, he certainly started it if the above account is to be believed.

 

That is as I understand it as well.

 

Reality is, Koeman's agent tried calling our bluff and both parties ended up losing out (well apart from his bank balance). Les and Koeman didn't get on, FWIW.

 

It's easy to say in hindsight, but the amount we have since spent in appointing / sacking MP & Puel, we should have just paid what Koeman wanted to keep him.

 

Basically a massive fuc* up by Les.

[OttawaSaint]

Still fuming at how we capitulated without so much as a whimper. Even at 2 and 3-0 down no one said “come on lads, we might still lose but let’s just ****ing get stuck in and use it as practice for the next game”. No they clock watched, eager to just get down the tunnel and away from the ground.

[Norm]

Still fuming at how we capitulated without so much as a whimper. Even at 2 and 3-0 down no one said “come on lads, we might still lose but let’s just ****ing get stuck in and use it as practice for the next game”. No they clock watched, eager to just get down the tunnel and away from the ground.

 

I’m still bloody annoyed at the shocking display. What stood out by a mile for me, the lack of a leader on the pitch! Someone to bollock those around him to get a grip. Shocking gutless ‘performance ‘ from the vast majority of the team.

 

I’m expecting changes to the team v Arsenal because I would rather see the likes of Sims/McQueen etc than some of the ****ing Pansies that were selected v West Ham

[the saint in winchester]

After that performance and MH's comments about playing only those he could rely on, I/we expect to see team changes.

If he sends out the clueless again, I shall be concerned.

[Saint-Fred]

That is as I understand it as well.

 

Reality is, Koeman's agent tried calling our bluff and both parties ended up losing out (well apart from his bank balance). Les and Koeman didn't get on, FWIW.

 

It's easy to say in hindsight, but the amount we have since spent in appointing / sacking MP & Puel, we should have just paid what Koeman wanted to keep him.

 

Basically a massive fuc* up by Les.

 

I was told something different by a club employee, RK wanted to see out his contract, Reed said sign a new one or go.

It was then that they contacted other clubs to get a value and Everton were willing to pay a fortune which obviously we would not match.

[Dark Munster]

After that performance and MH's comments about playing only those he could rely on, I/we expect to see team changes.

If he sends out the clueless again, I shall be concerned.

If Tadic is on the right and Redmond is on the left again, I shall weep.

[Saint Albert]

If Tadic is on the right and Redmond is on the left again, I shall weep.

 

A fair few will be choked if they’re on the pitch at all.